Would Europe have developed and undergo Renaissance if Black Death hadnt happened and wiped out 50% of population?
>>18064821I think so.Plagues weaken countries far more often than they help them – for example bubonic plague in the 6th century CATASTROPHICALLY weakened Byzantium.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_of_Justinian
>>18064843You’re a retard. Europe experienced a golden age as a result of the Black Death. This is common historical knowledge.
>>18064979>tens of millions must die>uh because uh it creates labor … shortages and that’s uh actually a good thing
There was a sudden flourishing of Italian renaissance art after the black death, often black death themed, leading rise to the theory, however art doesn't jump out of a hole in the ground, it took decades of gradually developing their trade from the Italo-byzantine icons to perspective, depth, proportions, light and anatomy, which was well underway and evident shortly before the black death arrived. The black death and renaissance were both a result of expanding trade networks, in the former case it spread disease so rapidly polities failed to institute quarantines, in the latter the spread of ideas, practices, increase in wealth of a middle class with money to spend on artists and new paints and materials, so it comes as no surprise they coincided. The same applies in the sense of technological development. If a machine is 5 times more efficient than a human it doesn't really matter if wages rise 20% or 50% then drop back down again a few generations later after populations recover, it depends overwhelmingly on the technology itself.>>18064979We're not allowed to question "common historical knowledge"? It isn't really common historical knowledge anyway.
>>18064986Have you ever read a history book in your life?>>18065055> We're not allowed to question "common historical knowledgeNot when you don’t even know about the common knowledge in the first place. But yeah, sure, go off your vibes instead. “Yeah the Black Death was bad cos uhhh I totally feel like it was bro… no, I haven’t ever read anything about it.”
>>18064821Yes. The Netherlands and Italy were already hotbeds of economic and artistic activity before the plague. As well, the Renaissance was heavily driven by the final collapse of the Byzantines and scholars fleeing with all their texts and records, and that was going to happen regardless of the plague.
>>18064821How come we always hear about natives dying from Euro diseases and blame Euros but we never honor the strength of Euros for overcoming the plague in that regard?Are we just more expecting that Euros should be strong enough to not die because of a small coof and brown animal people are perpetual victims?
>>18065175I actually keep a running list. I’m up to 51.
>>18064821Yes definitely, Europe is an impoverished backwater because of the Black Death.We know this because places where the Black Death didnt reach such as Africa surpassed Europe in culture, development, technology, and economic productivity.Clearly this ecological catastrophe held back the Europeans, otherwise theyd be at the same level of development as africans.
>>18065973Because events are good or bad depending on how it fits their narrative, in this case environmental determinism as an explanation for Europe's faster development.Diseases are bad when they affect India, Africa, the Americas, and so on because they decrease the population and harm their economy.Diseases are good when they affect Europe because they give the surviving lower classes more leverage for labor negotiations.Natural disasters are bad when they affect China or the Middle East because they damage infrastructure and also decrease the population.Natural disasters are good when they affect Europe because people stop believing in religion and write poems about them.
>>18066036So?
>>18065973>>18066036If Europe was invaded by a massive horde of Arabs that spread more disease as they went, then we wouldn't be looking for a bright side in the Black Plague from a sociological sense. We'd be talking about how that resulted in the continent's depopulation and later colonization by the Arabs and shaking our heads at what a shame it was that Europe didn't have a chance to develop into another pole of global power. There is no glory to be found in surviving plagues. It isn't a test of skill, but of biological compatibility. The bubonic plague was something that most Europeans already had some immunological history with. Smallpox was entirely new to the Americas.
Renaissance happened in spite of the plague, not because of it. You think losing half your workforce, your artists, and your scholars is some galaxy-brain economic plan?The plague was a massive L for Europe. It didn't cause the Renaissance by killing people. Italy was already getting rich as fuck from trade before the plague. The new money and ideas were already there. Black Death just fucked everything up for decades, shattered the economy, and caused mass hysteria.
>>18066562It actually wasn't that important. It mainly prevented central Europe winning. This prevented captialism from failing before it had access to iron.Captialism had to fail that way first for ir to happen. If the bureaucracy became entrenched with no basis then it would fail faster.
