Why am I supposed to be against them exactly?
>>18071112Like basically every other political issue, this is just about skin color.>if you like whites you support conquistadors>if you like browns you support aztecsIn reality both societies were sadistic and violent. Aztecs had sacrifices while Spaniards had witch burnings.
Why do spics celebrate the raping of their motherlands? Serious question.
>>18071112>supposed toAccording to who?>>18071118Kek in reality it's the other way around. Lots of light skin mestizo urbanites LARP as indigenous while most pure blooded rural indios are fervent Catholics who denounce paganism.
>>18071145>in realityTradFavelaGroyper1488 doesn't exist in reality, anon, only on Twitter. The situation you described doesn't happen in real life.
>>18071112They were the Romans of their ageA moral and righteous society against vice and degeneracy
>>18071156>being against human sacrifices means you're a NaziIn that case, Heil Hitler motherfucker
>>18071145In your model urbanites like browns while indios like whites. No contradiction with my take
>>18071156I live in mexico, negro. "Indigenismo" is just academia fart huffing. real native people just live quiet lives as hardcore Catholics. they regularly mock the dumb asses who live in urban areas and try to "restore" prehispanic religion with that santa muerte cringe.
>>18071112Human sacrifice is based and if you disagree, you’re a faggot
>>18071160moral and righteous society that engaged in mass rape of natives during conquest, that's right
>>18071181>real native people just live quiet lives as hardcore CatholicsWhat's their opinion on Nick Fuentes
>>18071112>we were doing it for humanitarian reasons!!
>>18071112Our population is going to be reacting to an imaginary 2015 for the next 60 years, the exact same way every film director and pop culture consumer has been seething about the 50's.until now.>and that's le good thing XDIt isn't. I'm already annoyed. The internet is supposed to dampen this pendulum action not swing it back and forth more rapidly.
>>18071205Aztecs committed genocide too. You don't even know why it's bad, which is why you're implicitly fine with it.
>>18071112>>18071145>>18071160>>18071164You don't need to think the Spanish in general are bad, but many Spanish writers who actually studies and interacted with Mesoamerican civilizations agreed that the amount of destroyed art, cities, literature, etc was a bad thing and excessive, or at least was unfortunate Sahagun:>...[the Mesoamericans] were so utterly trampled upon and destroyed...that no resemblance was left of what they were before. So now they are considered as barbarians... when in reality, in matters of governance...they are far ahead of many other nations that presume to be highly civilized...all nations...set their eyes on those who are wise...powerful...[virtuous]...skilled...the Greeks. [Romans], Spaniards, French, and Italians...the same was [true of Indigenous civilizations, especially the Aztec]Acosta:>Among the [Mesoamerican civilizations] there is great knowledge...they [had writing] and books...in which...[calendrics, natural histories, customs were recorded]...[Diego de Landa burned many Maya books]...which was regretted...not only by [the Mayas]...but by curious Spaniards...The same fate has befallen other things...[leading to the[ loss of [much knowledge]...This happens out of unhealthy zeal...of those who...indiscriminately dub everything witchcraft and [doubt the Indigenous people's knowledge]...those who have...[investigated] these matters [properly] have found many [worthwhile things]Diaz:>Our astonishment was indeed raised...all these buildings resembled [things from fairy tales]...so high, majestic, and splendid...all built of massive stone and lime, [rising] up out of the midst of the lake... it is impossible to speak coolly of things which we had never seen...heard...nor...dreamt of...I do not believe a country was ever discovered which was equal in splendour...But, at the present moment, there is not a vestige of all this remaining...not a stone of this beautiful town is now standingetc
>>18071228No, they didn't, not unless you think uncommonly sacking specific cities is "genocide"
>>18071196they'd probably think he was based
>>18071112The philosophy of domination and the caste system that Spain introduced to Latin America was worse in the long run. Pure poison.
>>18071112Leftists hate this event because it killed brownerinos while rightists hate it because it spawned brownerinos via miscegenation.The only people who enjoy it are Catholics and maybe a few Indios with a cuck fetish.
>>18071234>destroyed art, cities, literature, etc was a bad thing and excessive, or at least was unfortunateHow'd they do that?
>>18071235Nobody cared about "old-fashioned" genocide until we replaced it with the more civilized version involving bread and circus. Modern outrage is nothing more than an ego-enforced, self-affirming coping mechanism.Aztecs had zero issues with wiping out rival cultures and allowed them to exist out of a desire for more rivals to sacrifice.
>>18071234I agree with this sentiment.>>18071205I also think this is naïve and egotistical.
>>18071234The destruction of American native population wasn't really the Europeans doing wholly. The moment they set foot on the continent they released like ten of the most lethal bio weapons known to man on a population with zero resistance and it was completely unintentional. I think the lowball estimates are at something like 60% mortality rate, the high ones are closer to 95%, the fight was over before it even began and those cultures were lost in large part due to this.
>>18071234I never said they were perfect but a society that sacrifices humans for rain may not have the moral high ground in this case.The Aztecs were no noble savages. I mean they were savages, but not moble. They were resented by many other MesoAmerican tribes which made conquest relatively easy for the badly outnumbered Spaniards.
>>18071112The only place Spaniards were the bad guys to my knowledge was the Inca Empire.If they were the bad guys in Mexico then 500 conquistadors wouldn’t have been able to recruit 200,000 Natives to march alongside them on Tenochtitlan.
>>18071205>GenocideLiterally made up. Natives weren’t subjected to genocide
>>18071235>not unless you think uncommonly sacking specific cities is "genocide"So Hitler did nothing wrong?
The secular humanists come in and tell you to stop killing people who don't believe that wine turns into blood and crackers turn into meat. What you gonna do?
>>18071440It was a calculated political move by those natives, not the consequence of some sort of depravity unique to the aztecs. People do realise that none of the spanish allies had any issue with human sacrifice prior to contact with the spanish right
>>18071809Oh trust me, I understand it was politically motivated and that human sacrifice was entirely normalized in the region. I more-so mean that surrounding and subjugating peoples viewed the rule as unjust and felt the Aztecs were in too many cases either excessively unjust, or incompetent/negligent in other cases.
>>18071112>pretending Christians didn't have human sacrificinglol
>>18071118>iberijeets>white
>>18071893They literally invented the concept of white people
>>18071901no they didn't>we're less brown so we're white o algonot how it works moor
>>18071893>>18071906Why is everyone so mean to Iberians? I’m not Iberian but I consider them white. They’re not actually Moorish
>>18071909t. sanchez
>>18071533Hitler didn't just wipe out specific cities that happened to be military targets, he dragged people away selectively based on race even in the areas that he already had control over to wipe out specific ethnic groupsAre you stupid?
>>18071914No I am of British, Italian, Swedish and Southern German ancestry in that order
>>18071930sure thing paco
>>18071930papist?
>>18071930DNA analysis printout with timestamp, please.
>>18071933Yes I’m a filthy fucking papist despite my ancestors being old stock PuritARYANS from 400 years ago. 1/8th wop, thankfully not Sicilian or Calabrian though
>>18071942>>18071942I don’t have a printer at homeMyHeritage Results: 22.6% Scotland20.7 England16.6% “South” Italian (Molise NOT fucking Sicilian or Calabrian)9.3% Germanic Europe6.2% Sweden5.9% Breton (I don’t know why the fuck it says this)5.8% North Italy3.4% Ireland2.6% French2.3% East European (Kashubian ancestry)1.9% Greek and Albanian (Eastern Italy)1.7% Balkan (Eastern Italy again explains this)1.0% DenmarkAncestryDNA Results:28% Scotland27% Germanic Europe18% Southern Italy and East Med (from before they began distinguishing between Central and Southern Italy)10% Sweden8% Ireland2% Russia2% France2% Cornwall 2% Wales1% Central & Eastern EuropeNeither are perfectly accurate of my exact heritage from tracing my family tree back to 1500s but close enough to give you a general idea.
And then somehow these guys brought a religion in which these people suddenly took up the worshiping and veneration of Virgin Mary (la virgencita), more than God or Jesus. Is there a correlation to this?
>>18071205TRVTHNVKE
>>18071112Iberians are nonwhite moor negroid rapebabies with kike admixture who imported niggers and supported racemixing, they were the first globalists in history
>>18071234The Spaniards integrated the pyramids in the city of Mexico DF. The only books that were burnt were those that were against virtue and in favour of the devil.
>>18071893>>18071906
>>18072691>we killed brown so we're white o algoHalf of Africa would be white by this logic.
>>18071432>he says while literal Spanish friars alive at the time are quoted in the very post he replies to as saying that is incorrect and books without devilry were burned too
>>18072750whoops, meant for >>18072684And yes to the latter anon, the Spanish also tolerated a good amount of syncretism, but that doesn't mean they didn't destroy tons of shit too, and much of that syncretism was done begrudgingly because they simply couldn't prevent itMost of the pyramids that are standing today are still there because the Spanish didn't know about them, not because they were left there: The Cholula pyramid and the Teotihuacan ones were thought to be natural hills by the Spanish
>>18072691Iberians are literal niggers
>>18072898Purest western European faces.
>>18072994These are all nonwhite rapebabies with negroid blood
>>18071118>spaniards are whiteLol>witch burningsLol
>>18073048I think the Basque did some
>>18072994Mutts
>>18073031>>18073056LOL. All people can see that you are brownoids. People don´t get that the native European phenotype is western faces + dark hair + brown eyes. That was the default in Europe 6000 years ago before the light (blond blue) colouring arrived.
>>18072702are you fucking retarded?he's white because he's whitewhat the fuck are you looking at in that picture?
>>18071112Brown people hate civilization because it was imposed on their daddies by outsiders. It really is that petty.
>>18071112>Why am I supposed to be against them exactly?Because the English crown spent millions making up propaganda about them and the catholic church.
>>18073117>>18073327>>18073332All iberians got raped into existence by literal africans
>>18073413this was the og zuttening
>>18073413>haplotype
>>18071118witch trials mainly occurred in places that have extreme protestant-catholic divisionfully-catholic countries like spain, ireland, and poland hardly had themif anything, the spanish nobility practiced incesti'd rather take human sacrifices over that
>>18071112how come it's okay for spaniards to say stuff like this about the aztecs, but whenever the british say something about sati to justify their imperialism against india, it's considered racist?
>>18071234Diaz account seems fascinating to me and I want to get around to reading it at some point.
>>18071112>human sacrifice bad>being enslaved and worked to death in a silver mine good
>>18071112because the mesoamericans were manifestly fucking awesome and you should want to see more of them, but oh wait you can't, their traditions died by 1600if you've ever studied central mexican codices or mayan codices, and if you have a soul, you will weep that you can't see more, even if it's just for the purely artistic value. there's something about this particular civilization that made the raddest fucking art, theology, etc.the meme is more like:>sorry, but the mesoamericans will stop and if you like this mesoamerica stuff, you can only see this as ontologically evil
>>18071440>>18071439Pop history bullshit. The spanish joined an existing war between two rival empires. Those 200,000 natives were not "tribesmen", they were Tlaxcalan soldiers. Wars between empires is nothing new anywhere in the world, and the aztecs were not particularly hated for sacrifices or anything else. A lot of cities supported the Aztecs until it was clear they would lose.
>>18075032tlaxcallan role is far overstatedread this, some impressive shithttps://muse.jhu.edu/pub/122/article/923412
>>18075047Cool read. Obviously the tlaxcalans weren't the only ones fighting. But they had been fighting wars against the triple alliance for year and had their own allies and members of their confederacy. By and large, the war was between the triple alliance and tlaxcala, with more altepetls on the Aztec side until it didn't look too good for them
>>18074977reddit post
>>18075032It sounds like you have a horse in this raceWhatever belief system you have, it is not better than Christianity which came with Spain
>>18071118>race is just skin colorUh huh
>>18075360No but color is fundamental
>>18074977mesoamericans still exist though, you can go to ciudad juarez and get beheaded by them right now
>>18071112According to the amount of sacrificed children in the Main Temple of Tenochtitlan, the Aztecs sacrificed about 70 children in 200 years. Spaniards killed 8000 nobles and their children on the same spot in a couple of hours.>While Hernán Cortés was in Tenochtitlan, he heard about other Spaniards arriving on the coast – Pánfilo de Narváez had come from Cuba with orders to arrest him – and Cortés was forced to leave the city to fight them. During his absence, Moctezuma asked deputy governor Pedro de Alvarado for permission to celebrate Toxcatl (an Aztec festivity in honor of Tezcatlipoca, one of their main gods). But after the festivities had started, Alvarado interrupted the celebration, killing almost everyone present at the festival, men, women, and children alike>The Spanish version of the incident claims the conquistadors intervened to prevent a ritual of human sacrifice in the Templo Mayor; the Aztec version says the Spaniards were enticed into action by the gold the Aztecs were wearing, prompting an Aztec rebellion against the orders of Moctezuma. While differing so on Alvarado's specific motive, both accounts are in basic agreement that the celebrants were unarmed and that the massacre was without warning and unprovoked
Tvrvkvnvkve incoming
>>18075414Those are children of the Cold War. After it ended the anti commie death squads trained by Americans moved to the drug business and paramilitarized them and instructed them with terror tactics. There's no continuity between the aztecs and cartel beheadings.
>>18075452>Doesn't include those sacrificed in the capitalLol. This thread is about the sacrifice of the Mexicas of Tenochtitlan. The 20,000-70,000 estimate isn't even just for them, or even the Aztec Empire, it's for all of Mesoamerica sans the Maya area ("Central Mexico" as defined by Simpson/Borah/Cook, though i'd argue that term should exclude Veracruz, Oaxaca, Gurrero, and West Mexico), AND it's also not even really an estimate because it's just from harner proportionally scaling up Borah/Cook's 15,000 sacrifices a year estimate with revised population figures even though there's no reason to think sacrifice #'s scale proportionally with total population figures.TL;DR The people with whom the Spanish allied themselves sacrificed more people than the Aztecs, who probably sacrificed between like 500 to 7000 people a year. Remembering that Tenochtitlan was founded in 1325.
Does anyone have any book recommendations on aztec/mesoamerican bronze work?Id like to see axe typologies and bronze tin percentages and regional differences to make some reproductions.But i have no source info other than isloated museum examples out of context.Ive heard the bronze had a 6% tin ratio lower than old world bronze making them appear redder and more like copper to the spanish.
>>18071112reminder that it wasn't just aztecs. The whole red race was like this from north to southhttps://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/03/190306142902.htm>Hundreds of children and llamas sacrificed in a ritual event in 15th century Peru>This study reports the findings of excavations between 2011 and 2016 that revealed hundreds of bodies buried in an area of approximately 700 square meters. The human remains were almost entirely children, and the animal remains, all juvenile, were identified as most likely llamas, but possibly alpacas. Anatomical and genetic evidence indicates the children included boys and girls between 5 and 14 years old. Cut marks transecting the sternums and displaced ribs suggest both the children and llamas may have had their chests cut open, possibly during ritual removal of the heart.>The remains were radiocarbon dated to around 1450 AD, during the height of the Chimú state. A thick layer of mud overlaying the burial sediments indicates that this mass killing was preceded, and perhaps inspired, by a major rainstorm or flood. The authors note that this sacrifice was clearly a large investment of resources for the Chimú culture.
>>18075600The Moche of Peru worshipped Ai Apaec, better known as the Decapitator, a deity often depicted as either a vaguely anthropomorphized spider with snake hair, feline face and the arms of a crab or an octopus, or just as a man with a terrifying face. He's called the decapitator because he's usually depicted a decapitated head in one hand and a tumi (a sacrificial knife with a vaguely shovel-shaped blade). He was a terrifying god that thirsted for blood, and the moche were hella big on human sacrifice; probably more so than any other civilization in the South America. Also, the Moche are thought to have held and tortured sacrificial victims for weeks before sacrificing them, in order to draw as much blood from them as possible. The blood, and some of the flesh, is thought to have been ritually consumed by the nobility. Also, they occasionally displayed the skeletons of sacrificial victims in their temples. Also, they are believed to have often sacrificed large groups of people together, and then used what was left of them for temple display.
>>18075600The Chimu were the successors of >>18075608 and were conquered by the Incas.
>>18075229go back
>>18071234That just happens when one civ conquers another, it's a shame, but all things considered, it's good that *ngloids didn't come first and genocide and burn everything. Spaniards were certainly not perfect, but they are better than French and (((anglos)))
>>18074977dude this comment actually made me laugh out loud>so manifestyl fkn awesome
>>18075582This is pretty much the best overview of Mesoamerican metallurgy you'll find online: https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/aztec-bronze-metallurgy-in-mesoamerica.119652/The only caveat is that it doesn't talk about Bronze weapons which seem to have been a thing, though are a bit contentious for a few reasons.tl;dr:>As the post notes, most metal axes in Mesoamerica are non-functional bartering items, a minority were hatchets or adzes for woodworking>Some metal axes are shown in codices with what seem to be soldiers or in battles, but A: those are often ceremonial figures who just happen to be wearing/using military gear as a ritual getup, or B: are post-contact codices and arguably may not perfectly represent Prehispanic practices>There is one mention by Bernal Diaz of Huastec(?) soldiers using bronze or copper axes while boarding a Spanish boat, which to me seems like a smoking gun of some military use but is not frequently discussed in the literature>The Relacion de Michoacan mentions Purepecha soldiers using what are basically morning star maces with metal spikes/points, but for some reason I've seen Purepecha specialists be skeptical of this, I don't know why>There are also depictions/descriptions of what might be hooked metal polearms, but specialists think these may be status markers rather then weapons. There's also what might be clubs with big metal spikes, but it may also just be a wierd depiction of the aformentioned polearms>Clavigero claims Tepoztopilli, a sort of slashing polearm often used by the Aztec, could have metal blades, but Clavigero was writing centuries after the fact and could be extrapolating from the "Tepoz-" part of the namePersonally I think Metal axes in war and the Purepecha morning stars were real. The Purepecha polearms/spiked clubs are more ambiguous, and IMO metal tepoztopilli are bullshit. I vaguely recall something about the Purepecha using metal arrowheads once but I can't find it again
>>18075582>>18076923Also for papers on Mesoamerican copper/bronze smithing you'll want to errr towards looking at publications on Western Mexico since that's where most of the production wasNever heard about the extra red thing, to the contrary there's an incident where the Spanish thought some copper or bronze axes were gold, but spanish sources do frequently use "copper" to refer to bronze items in Mesoamerica too, so who knows. Never seen axe typologies or papers which try to suss out which axes were axe monies vs functional hatchets, sadly, but I do think some exist even if I haven't found them?People who you could try messaging:- The author of the post I linked, goes by ThesaurusRex/JonathanHall most places, they're on the Dankprecolumbianmemes discord- Mictlantecuhtli on reddit/discord, Tlatollotl on twitter, facebook, tumblr, etc. West Mexican archeologist, but more focused on shaft tomb stuff then metallurgy- Mario del Desierto / @VicioNez, researchers Mesoamerican metallurgy, can be kinda difficult to interact with in my experience though
>>18071112How many were sacrificed thereafter for capitalism? Relatively, the Aztec era was tranquil
>>18075358I suppose you're the type that believes the whole world should be conquered by christians and forcefully converted?
>>18077024not forcefullythrough love and the guidance of the Holy Spirit
>>18077203You should hate conquistadors then. They were far from loving.
>>18077457They loved adventure and exploration, maybe a bit of gold here and there tooBut overall they weren't that bad. Can't really judge them by some seething letters written by Iberian monks who never sailed a day in their livesLife in the colonies during and after the conquest was harsh for everyone. The Crown and Church had to get paid too, enemies were always attacking them by land and sea, and the Natives were sometimes too restive so the colonial authorities exceeded once in a while their authority in extracting wealth from the land. These incidents were blown out of proportion by enemies of Spain and the Black Legend still persists. In the end, God will judge those who sinned and died unrepentant.
>>18071112The Spanish lost against their own children
>>18071118witch trials were exceedingly rare the most common conviction wasnt witch-craft, it was murder.non-witches were executed as witches because thats just what they did.they were in most cases secular trials carried out through religious ceremony to cut through red tape for the obviously guilty.
>>18077487Come on, there's no need for historical revision. The spanish practiced all kinds of horrible slavery long after it was banned by the crown, to a far worse degree than it ever was before they came. Disease was the primary cause of depopulation, but it certainly didn't help that natives were being worked to death in plantations and mines. It is especially naive to think that natives were converted with love or whatever. There are plenty of accounts of massacres written by conquistadors, the monks you hate. And many monks were explicitly given the job of erasing the existing religions to replace with christianity - this is forced conversion. It's why they felt the need to burn every codex or quipu they could find.
>>18076923>>18076936Excellent sources thank you very much!I hope to do justice to these axes in the future. I not to bothered about them being used for war a craft axe can be more interesting as an item.
>>18071112Their strategy was retarded. Just look at them and see what happened to their empire
>>18071118
>>18079011email me your progress at saintseiyasource@gmail.com
Human sacrifices.
>>18074977They hated anon because he told the truth. Quality of life, medicine, food, art, etc, absolutely fucking plummeted after spanish contact, and you can argue in some ways it still hasnt recovered to this day
>>18080329Saved
>>18080348Maybe their culture was just inferior.
>>18074977Trve…
>>18080524>t. Somalian living in Sweden
>>18080594Kek, why though?
>>18071112Why the fuck was Moctezuma so fucking stupid? He should have closed all the waterways when Cortes and his army entered Tenochtitlan and slaughtered them right there.Being kidnapped in your own castle is fucking embarrassing.
>>18075435>sacrifice a human beingvs>kill a bunch of retards celebrating the sacrifice of a human beingDESERVED
>gather your supposed 100k army and face Cortes and his allies in open battle>barricade yourself inside the literal water fortress that was Tenochtitlan>block the exits and ambush Cortes as soon as they enter TenochtitlanExplain why Moctezuma did neither of these, except let himself get captured, humiliated and killed in a most hilarious fashion
>>18071112The Spaniards were colonised and subjugated themselves years before their journey to the Americas. They should have been better men
>>18080663100k~110k vs 70k~90k + 200 foreigners with strange weapons you have never seen before aren't the best odds
>>18080697That's why you wasted time building a fortress such as Tenochtitlan and don't live in tents in the open field
>>18071118Aztec sacrifices were done out of pagan demonic fear. Witch burnings had the very useful purpose of ridding society of hysterical whores. We should bring back witch burnings, actually.
>>18071234>nooo think about muh books>just let them sacrifice people bro come on think of the buildingsLolGet razed to the ground, retard
>>18071112They sacrificed 6 million
>>18080329Yes. Yes they did.
>>18081008>It's impossible to conquer a region and outlaw practices without also torching every book you come across and eradicating every existing artistic and architectural tradition you canNot sure that checks out anon>>18080663>>18080697>>18080830>>18080613Not gonna type out a full explanation, but tl;dr>Cortes identified himself as a emissary of the king of Spain, strict diplomatic protocols required he be received with hospitality>Flaunting the grandeur of your city and showing the scale of your sacrifice ceremonies was how you enticed and intimidated diplomats into becoming your subject or ally in Mesoamerica>As argued by Restall, we know that Mexica rulers liked collecting objects, plants, and animals, by having the Conquistadors there, it was another act of collecting things as a show of Mexica dominance and control (see also further down, or how foreign princes served as attendants both to impress/intimidate them and to likewise show dominance/"collect" them)>The Conquistadors were small in number and the Tlaxcalteca had been a punching bag for decades, on paper they were not much of an actual threat>Especially inside Tenochtitlan where they could in theory be ambushed or surrounded at any time, wheras if denied entry and left to their own devices, it enabled them to potentially gain even more allies outside of direct supervision\>Additionally, by keeping them in Tenochtitlan, it signaled that Moctezuma II was unafraid and in control, to deny entry or attack and breaking diplomatic rules would make him look weak and untrustworthy to other Mesoamerican rulersHis actions make a ton of sense if you understand Aztec politics, it's just the Aztec political perspective is almost never explained in sources people read which focus on the Spanish side and what little they do cover about the Mesoamerican side has big issues and omissions (hence "Cortes got allies due to the Mexica being resented/oppressive" being such a common misconception)
>>18075360
>>18081387>some guy shows up claiming to be an envoy from a country you have never heard of>he has an army of your enemies with him>let them inside your castlewas montezuma stupid? did his dad forget to tell him he is not actually descended from a god?
>>18071916But that’s what the Aztecs did? They kept the cities under vassalship and dragged their choice of citizens out to be exterminated in a ritualized mass murder. Literally just the Holocaust.
>>18080329Lawful execution isn’t a sacrifice. Sorry.
>>18082074Even if it is done to appease God (The Pope and his men)?
>>18071112>Why am I supposed to be against them exactly?Because that didn't turn well for the Spanish empire.
>>18071235>wiping a rival people out is bad>keeping them as cattle for your massive blood orgies is okay
>>18082083It’s punishment for crime, no?
>>18082048No, they didn't do that, at least not with any real frequency from existing subjects/vassals: Most captives were taken during wars or as spoils given by a surrendering city after a war, not as regular payments from already subjugated cities/statesWe have surviving Aztec tribute rolls and tax quotas like the Codex Mendoza, the Paso y Troncoso, the Matricula de tributos, etc. Tax demands of captives were very rare: I think it shows up ZERO times in the Matricula, it's only a demand for a single province in the Mendoza, where it's specifically a demand for soldiers captured from Tlaxcala (an enemy state) as taxes, not the province's own people, and even in the Paso y Troncoso we're talking only a few provinces and a few specific states with the demand, when the Aztec Empire had 50+ provinces, covering around 500 subject and vassal states. Plus, there wasn't any sort of ethnic, religious, or linguistic "preference" or targeting here. The only thing like that was different emperors had decrees at times stating captured soldiers from X vs Y vs Z etc state would be worth less in terms of the status it would grant to the soldier who captured them, based on how formidable that state's armies were thought to be at the time or how desirable they were as a military target for conquestWhat >>18082154 says may have happened, in the sense that Moctezuma II claimed Tlaxcala was left unconquered as a perpetual target of wars to have a steady stream of captured soldiers, but this is largerly thought to be an excuse to justify why they were never able to conquer it, as we do have records of some for-real full scale invasions rather then just flower wars against Tlaxcala. In either case, they didn't do that sort of thing against existing subjects within the empire (not that there weren't flower wars against existing subjects, but they were mutually arranged, though their arranged nature was apparently kept hidden from the general populace)
>>18071112
>>18082074It can be equally barbaric though, which makes it hardly better.
>>18082074Religious offences are not real crimes.
>>18083384.....did you compare indoctrinated sacrifices to killing someone that everyone agrees deserves death for fucking with people's lives?That's um.....I see where tf you retards get your logic from now at least
>>18083435It is if it's your countries law to be religious retardBut you right let's cut them hearts out before the gasball of fire gets mad at us again.
>>18074492>the spanish nobility practiced incestthey did not, wtf are you babbling about?royal houses ended up practicing occasional cousin marriage but even then it took generations of that to get Carlos II to the level of a single brother-sister marriage. for proles and low ranking nobles even cousin marriage was off limits, given the church's stance on consanguinity. whereas in most of the world cousin marriage is not even seen as anything untoward
>>18081387Imagine being a diplomat and getting unwittingly put into the 'Hairy troglodyte from beyond the sea' exhibit at the royal zoo lmao.But aside form that I read it's possible they had a Bison in the Zoo of Tenochtitlan which is a testament of how far their trade routes went.
>>18084037No we should burn them alive in the name of a Jew.
>>18079774I still have your email from our interactions over the macuahuitl.That info was also very informative.
>>18071112https://youtu.be/YAuxoPIj-z8?si=abt1UjQOrrT-288TThe American franchise blames everyone else to cover their own blood shedIn short
>>18071112The only reason I have any qualms with the Spanish Empire is the result of me being from a country which had traditionally been rivals with Spain. I have no actual issue with what Spain did and if I were a Spaniard I would support it.
>>18082017Imagine 500 aliens showed up with a few thousand russian soldiers and asks to speak to the president. We may not let the soldiers see the president in person, but we'd still faclitate communication of some kind. I agree what Moctezuma II was risky in hindsight, but it was less so in context, and he really had no way of knowing Cortes was not actually a diplomat, let alone somebody literally charged with treason by the Spanish crown. He also did know for sure that they weren't from Mesoamerica, and had powerful armor and weaponry. Killing him would be a drastic move that risked antagonizing this new empire and would mean he couldn't get further intel.>>18084248Yes, though there being a bison comes from a fairly late account, I believe from the 1700s, so it could be a detail made up laterAlso it probably wasn't a literal human zoo with people in cages, though some sources do imply that, most imply it more as a kind of dormitory that just happened to be built into/was a part of the same series of structures that served as the zoo, aviary, aquarium, etc. Palace attendants may have lived there too>>18084861You should check this out, I haven't had time to look over it yet since it's all in Spanish but it seems extremely useful:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvgKUO8In_shttps://macuahuitl.xyzIf you speak/read spanish and wanna compile notes on it with me, shoot me an email again
>>18071112The Spaniards didn’t conquer Mexico to stop the sacrifices. They did it because they wanted to become rich and the monarchs of Spain were more than happy to see them do it while giving their royal share to the crown.
>>18084888who?
>>18071234>We wuz about to build step temple stargates n sheeiiiit in our mosquito/malaria infested Diablo 2 Act 3 hellhole but den da whitey came along and took away our programs!!!
Illuminated europeans could have just left the Americas the fuck alone and we wouldn't have to deal with half the bullshit that we have to deal with these days. Europe would still be standing as a pillar example of an advanced safe and educated society and not a glorified globalist LinkedIN hub for browns, women on anti depressants and castrated white men.It's karmatic punishment, such are the consequences of colonization...but then again, asking them to not do that during a time of discovery and innovation would be like putting yourself in front of a moving train.At least the aztecs had some pretty kino mythos.
>>18085337Not an academic source but im trying to find what sources the artist used to make this.Image searching only brings up his rule 34 art.Im curious where he got the design on the axe from.I'd like to do some paint work on the axe shafts.
>>18087181Erendira is a very cool name and so is her story
>>18082503
>>18086912Here's like 80 images of ruins showcasing the accuracy of the architectural style seen in those images:https://pastebin.com/MsiYXN3L>>18087181>>18087546The axe is probably based on the the Purepecha weapon (be it a spiked club/axe or polearm) or banner device seen here: https://x.com/Majora__Z/status/1979057440558584090As far as the fashion, I'd just defer to Kamazotz/Daniel parada's purepecha collage, you can see bits and pieces of the sort of stuff Mossa used there, but I can't comment on the accuracy of the specific combination of ornaments, I recall hearing that Mossa mixed some stuff out of context tho
