It's time to admit that vatican II was the suicide of the vatholic church.
>>18076705No you just have to admit that Islam conquered Rome, fulfilling the prophecy in Daniel 2 and 7
>>18076705As someone considering catholicism this fills me with dismay
>>18077124It fills you with dismay that a tourist attraction caters to tourists needs?
>>18077129The research library of the Vatican is not a tourist attraction.
>>18076705The Early Church Fathers would find the current "Catholic" Church obscenely unorthodox, even if they disagreed with each other a little.
>>18077135Ok, so what is it?
>>18077124Just become a Lutheran variant of Christian, a Reformed Catholic, if you will.
>>18077139A research library for work.
>>18077147You're filled with dismay that a research library for work caters to researcher needs?
>>18077149Prayer is an extracurricular activity and not required for work within the library.
>>18077158According to who?
>>18077163Knowing religion.
>>18077171Knowing religion means people can't pray in a library?
>>18077176See>>18077158
>>18077179Clearly the Vatican knows better than you
>>18077190Not the first, nor the last time mistakes were made in any religion.
>>18077192>thinking the Pope made a mistakeOooooo that's a burning.
>>18077198The Pope is infallible ex cathedra. Not in general.
>>1807720This mother fucker when he joins the "do what the Pope says" religion and finds out he has to do what the Pope says.
>>18077200>The pope is only infallible when he says Simon says!Irrelevant. There’s no infallible list of ex cathedra statements. I can ask 100 different papists for the number and get 100 different answers. Papists cannot even agree on the criteria for an ex cathedra statement let alone which statements are ex cathedra.
The Catholic church was already dying hence why Vatican II had to happen.
>>18077217nta but you are such a little baby, "arguing" like a toddler who keeps asking questions so he doesnt have to admit he is wrong. Grow up.
low iq anti catholicism is jesterratio + thomas aquainas made you
>>18077142Reformed (as in Calvinist) is already short for Reformed Catholic
>>18077315Thomas Aquinas would support burning Leo at the stake
>>18077333>lies"oh im so based and such a good catholic that i actually dont even listen to the pope because hes not a real catholic">become humbleo wow catholicism isnt that hard after all
>>18077124Orthodox Christianity is the way
>>18077375This. I'm not one, but if I were a Christian then this would be the only option.
The Catholic Church has basically spent the last 80 years trying to accommodate itself to the postwar order and American hegemony. With Liberalism, basically. Fukuyama's "end of history." Liberal democracy and neoliberal capitalism. Trying to find a way for the Church to coexist with such things, and thrive in such a world, was the entire point of Vatican 2.But it didn't work. We can see that it didn't work. Attempting to "get along" with the postwar order and a world dominated by the United States has been disastrous for the Church. We have hemorraged believers. Nobody actually gets taught the Faith any more. Where we're growing, we're growing in places like Africa and Oceania which are far removed from the beating heart of Liberalism and the postwar, postmodern West.Vatican 2 is a failed council. People who say it was invalid miss the point. Every council called by the Church is valid. The problem with Vatican 2 isn't that it was invalid, the problem is that 60 years later it hasn't fucking worked. We were unable to accommodate ourselves to American Hegemony and the Postwar Order without being decimated.So, in light of this, it's time to move on to Plan B. If we can't coexist with the postwar order, we'll just fucking kill it. If we can't successfully survive in a world dominated by the United States, then the United States as we know it has got to go. It should be the goal of Catholics to annihilate every last trace of the postwar order. American hegemony, the United Nations, NATO, the European Union, the NGO networks, they've all gotta go. They've all got to be destroyed, in Christ's Name, no matter how violent it gets.Supporting Trump, a clear destroyer, is a good first step. But more needs to be done. The path of carnage needs to be pursued for the good of the Church. Catholics need to commit themselves to completely wiping every trace of the Postwar Order and American Hegemony off the face of the Earth.
>>18077375theosis concept hinders me
>>18077396The idolatry should hinder you.
>>18077377>we catholics must annihilate the united states because they don't consider me white o algo
>>18076705vatican 2 was horrible, undoubtedly heinous, but it pales in comparison to the crime of allowing the dark to identify along with the light as members of the body of Christ without discerning any distinction between them. That was, after all, what triggered the protestant "protest"
>>18077377>the NGO networksYou post that shit as if the catholic church and its various subsidiaries aren't a glorified NGO network themselves raking in hundreds of millions in fedbux to resettle (non-catholic) refugees
>>18077377And how do you plan on achieving that...? Catholics are not a coherent and capable group in rich and powerful countries, while in catholic shitholes, even if they were able to size power and use those societies for such a goal, they'd still be stuck with shithole countries that wouldn't be of much use.
>>18077459Why, the same way we Catholics always do things.Pray, and allow God to provide us with the right opportunities. Then make use of them. We are the New Israel, after all. The Lord will fight for us and help us out. We just have to ask Him specifically.
>>18077460You mean ask Mary.
>>18077377>if i tradcath hard enough i'll become white o algokek sanchez
>>18077400kek this
>>18077377>Supporting Trump, a clear destroyer, is a good first step.Trump is the biggest supporter of the American Empire and one of the reasons America refuses to transition to a multipolar world order.
>>18076727Is this what mudslimes fantasise about?
>>18077124they have been poz'd for a while now
>>18077559How is Trump pro-Empire? He literally opposes NATO
>>18077375>>18077376not for westerners. it's funny how zoomers think you can "shop around" for a denomination like for a pair of pants
>>18077591only because nato has "voting"/article 4. if it was an order of countries that explicitly performs US instructions, he'd have no issue with it
>>18078331why not for westerners?
>>18077559Trump focuses on funneling American influence on the western hemisphere in accordance with the Monroe Doctrine. See his remarks about Greenland/Panama/Canada. He's even bombing drug boats
>>18077396"Theosis" is a Western convert meme. I've lived my whole life in an Orthodox country and have never heard of it, in a church or anybody else. Nobody cares about it except for theology nerds, yet English-speaking converts constantly talk about it as if it were some central part of Orthodox Christianity.
>>18077320Calvinists are Chic tract Atheist.
Glad Orthodox is finally getting more English Septuagint options.
>>18078609>Nobody cares about it except for theology nerdsThat's because most orthocucks like the rest of the cuckstians do not know anything about their religion. If they did they'd know they are literally mormon tier
I unironically feel like these changes are going to cause another big division within the christian world in the near future, there are tons of zoomers and millennials who are starting to believe or maybe they find refugee in christianity, but they don't like this gay liberal boomer shit. This pope is just as bad as the last one. And there's a huge far right movement that doesn't care about turning the other cheek. They're more into the templar or "heroic" christianty (I didn't make that up, julius evola mentions this very real side of christianity). They want the more traditional pro-western christianismAnd in south america people don't give a fuck about the pope anymore, when he visits nobody cares anymore back in the day it was always a huge dealI'm not in an echo chamber btw, I travel a lot because of my work and, In my opinion, young christians don't give a fuck about the vatican; they're antisemites, they're islamophobes, they want to go back to some sort of tradition even if its LARPing because they're so tired of this post-modern world
>>18078550orthodoxy is native to eastern europe and greece and its people, their culture and intricacies of their culture and national psychology. it's the same reason a westerner can't be a legit hindu or buddhist
>>18077375People make the claim about Catholicism, but you guys actually worship Mary. No thanks.>inb4 Protestant liesI was a member of the church for 5 years. It is a fact.
>>18078950This. You will always be an outsider looking in. Unless you find a parish that’s already made up mostly of converts you will always feel like you’re a second-class member.
>>18077124I too would be in dismay if I was retarded and brown minded enough to consider catholicism
>>18079105As opposed to?
>>18076705Should be allowed to pray in the main room tbqh.Though in the same vein, Christians should be allowed to pray in the Hagia Sophia.The thing was re-opened in 2021, literally according to the dictates of Mehmed the Conqueror. Who specifically said Christians could keep on worshipping there.Fuck the Turk PM. Keep religion out of politics.
>>18078950>>18079092>you're not welcomed at this church and we'll treat you like an outsider because you're not from hereDoesn't this go against the teachings of Christ? Like isn't what you're saying a sales pitch on why someone SHOULDN'T want to be an Orthodox?
>>18079150yes lol. again, can a westerner be a legit 100% hindu? christ didn't say anything about picking and choosing denominations btw because they weren't there yet. also, i'm not a christian but was born and raised orthodox in a country where it's prevalent. i'm now living in a western country and even though i'm fond of catholic "aesthetics", it appears completely foreign and somewhat incomprehensible from a cultural point of view to me.
>>18077377At this point just become Orthodox.
>>18078609Just because you do not know what your church fathers said does not make the concept any less of a doctrinal reality in the church.
>>18079157Sounds liike cultural fatalism to me.
>>18079200sure, why not. can a white american born and raised in america become a practicing hindu? yes, but he gets the cheap plastic version
>>18077149>It’s okay folks the designated area for baal worship is actually attached to an academic space not a spiritual space, so it’s okay. We’re definitely a serious church please join us.
>>18076705The Vatican is an entire country. If they had been installing this inside of a church, that would be a bit deal. But if it's being installed in a secular building within the country, it's not so much a big deal
>>18079306See this video at the 22:15 mark for part of the official position on this:https://youtu.be/OqnnY2qZ3Wo?si=mt9xJlF14lsu80Ee&t=1335
>>18079322>you can get to heaven if you sincerely worship baal. We’re a serious church we’re all-inclusive and promotes the common humanity in all of us across cultures. Unlike the protties who don’t believe our wholesome baal worshippers go to heaven. They’re Overly eurocentricNot diverse or inclusive of other faiths and cultures.
>>18079372It's put that way to avoid the idolatry trap. Before you can condemn people for worshipping God in the wrong way; you must first assume the role of God by judging the moral worth of others. That is the act of idolatry. In the end, if the Bible has shown anything, it's that God will choose who He will (Romans 9:18)
>>18077377This is so fucking based lmaoglowniggers ITT doing damage control, dont listen to them.Globohomo weimerica and Jewropean union must go
>>18079150>Like isn't what you're saying a sales pitch on why someone SHOULDN'T want to be an Orthodox?Yes, that is my point. Catholicism isn't it, but neither is Orthodoxy. If I could do it all over again I would rather have wasted that time with Catholicism rather than the weird Eastern cult.
>>18076705Didn't they set up prayer rooms for many different religions during the 1986 Assisi prayer meeting? So what's surprising about this?
>>18076705They call it the Graceful Ablutionary Sacred chamber.
>base your identity on absolute and unwavering loyalty to an organization>become disloyal the second it doesn't do things the way you want it
>>18080518The identity was based on a set of beliefs, the organization in charge of upholding those beliefs has decided to actively go against it's founding purpose.
>>18080589the organization defined half of those beliefs lol, sounds like you're a shitty christian
>>18080518>>18080592A Catholic has every right to call the Church and its clergy corrupt. The only loyalty is to Church doctrine, not Church conduct.
>>18080592I'm not Catholic. I'm just saying your argument is retarded.
>>18080626>>18080601it's retarded to be loyal to an organization that is not capable of following its own doctrine
>>18080273You don't understand the west had fallen billions must die.
>>18077377
>>18080273>>18080776>1986How does this contradict opposition to Vatican II, retards?
>>18080818I agree with you. West=fallen.
