Why did Japan modernize so quickly, but not China?
Honest answer? Japan was smart enough to let the U.S. open their boarders.
>>18096039>boardersSARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
>>18095999I mentioned this in another post>Politics. Attempts to industrialize in China and Korea were shot down both internally and externally. Even in Japan, there was two civil wars regarding it. The Japanese got lucky as fuck, first with the black ships opening them up early on and only wanting trade, second with the Imperial faction hypocritically doing everything they criticized the Shogunate for doing after winning, third with the rebellion afterwards being rather small and contained, and fourth with the international community having no interest in invading Japan or stunting their development, unlike China who was plagued by international invasions, massive civil wars, and a severely retarded Empress who fucked over attempts at modernization, and Korea who got fucked over by Japan.There were attempts to modernize in China but unlike Japan, they did not have the luxury of stability. And after the Qing, there was no unified China, just various warlord factions followed by the Japanese invasion, followed by more civil war, followed by communist retardation until they finally got the chance under Deng Xiaoping.
>>18096046It was a typo Anon, have merrrrcy!
Japan had been learning in limited fashion from the Dutch all along so they weren't THAT opposed to it.
>>18095999Just way too big
>>18095999China is a much bigger nation, more people, more territory, etc...
>Why did Japan modernize so quickly, but not China?
>>18096181mindbroken
>>18096181How is this a jeet thread? China was a third world shithole in my lifetime, yet Japan already modernized in the 1800s.
>>18096185still is.
>mindbroken>How is this a jeet thread? China was a third world shithole in my lifetime, yet Japan already modernized in the 1800s.>still is.
>>18096191
>>18096027I will always maintain that 5000 years of history and their only artistic achievements being a couple of novels written in the early Ming is proof of this. Only a people devoid of soul could exist for so long with no art to show for it.
>>18096185Japan didn't truly modernize until the late 1960s. They industrialized in the 1800s.
Japanese Samurai with Jomon ancestry raped China and demolished the Chinese nation.Jomon BVLLS ended a 5 thousand year old civilization with a minor regional conflict.Japan is technologically superior to China due to larger IQ and larger heads. Japanese have more robust frames and have maintain the Faustian spirit of their Jomon ancestors in their samurai caste.Japan humiliated China, hurt the feelings of the Chinese people, and exposed China as a fraud.The Chinese are weak, servile, materialistic, swarthy, smelly, and low IQ peasants.The Japanese are driven, fair, smell like cherry blossoms, and are exclusively descended from heavy bearded, robust, physically powerful Jomon BVLLs.When the Japanese invaded China the illiterate Chinese children who had never seen an aircraft believed they were Vermillion Birds coming to drop gifts on them LOL.The Japanese took war brides from China.Japan's males can grow facial hair, have widow's peaks, and build muscle, while Chinese "men" are indistinguishable from Chinese women.
>>18096257Acktually Japan westernized in the late 19th century. Industrialized (as in actually have heavy industries and capable of making steel stuffs) in the 1910sDemocratized and liberalized in the 1950sAnd finally became a first world, high-income country in the 1970sChina is currently in the equivalent of 1930s Japan: having good industrial power but a poor and an extremely nationalistic and brainwashed population, a huge desire to expand its influence on the world
ITT: Incels seething that as China rises, Golden men will breed women from across the world (already happening)
>>18096185>>18096257Japan was essentially a second world nation. Much more advanced than the rest of Asia, not advanced enough to be on the same level as the west. Frankly, the western world took an "I can fix her" approach when bringing Japan into the industrialized world. And, I mean, the effort paid off in the long run (albeit it took two nukes in the end, but they have higher IQs than us now, so really, they owe us).
>>18097053Are we really doing the BCC thing? Is this why there's been a noticeable rise in covert anti-Japanese sentiment lately? God, chinks really are jeets. Anyways, the only yellow men European women go for are the faggy looking gooks that have reconstructed their face, and 2D nip men. Nobody likes the Chinese.
>>18095999YELLOW PERIL
>>18095999Japanese are smart, they understood they had to modernise in order to not be conquered. China was arrogant and it cost them
>>18096027Mainland commies aren't. Taiwanese are based however
>>18096181>>18096191Wumao
>>18096257Japan was a modern country on par with the west by the beginning of the 1900's
>>18097216All Golden men are based, Japanese and Koreans are part of the Sinosphere and my brothersWe will all rise and breed non-Golden women together
>>18095999China modernized more quickly than any country in history, you mean why did Japan modernize so early. The answer is compatible political institution, with Japan having an early bourgeois revolution (ironically led by monarchists against feudal militarists) while China didn't have one until 1911 and peace thereafter until 1949. The dynastic system just proved to be more entrenched and reactionary in China, while the reactionary shogunate in Japan was able to be swept aside by a progressive imperial court.
>>18095999A few reasons, one is that Japan's modernization didn't happen until after they saw how badly China (historically THE most powerful civilization in the world to them) was getting absolutely fucked by the Europeans. Europeans didn't really care that much about Japan and saw it as a poor backwater compared to China, which it was. So while they did have to deal with some minor unequal treaties imposed by America and Russia, they had an opportunity to modernize before the imperialists really started to fuck them, which China did not.But the biggest factor was that China had to face the Taiping Rebellion just as Chinese leadership was waking up to the reality of just how backwards they had become in terms of military and industrial capacity. This rebellion was a true national disaster of unimaginable scale that locked up the richest and most productive parts of China in rebel hands for TWO DECADES and killed TENS OF MILLIONS of people. Its interesting that the second opium war happened right in the middle of the rebellion and the Qing saw it as an annoying sideshow compared to the more important task of destroying the Taiping, an estimation I have to agree with.This was a massive diversion of resources and effort that could have been used to modernize the country, something Japan had no equivalent experience to.
>>18095999>Why did Japan modernize so quicklyIt took a long time. Especially in reaching the rural areas
>>18097978The Taiping was a reaction to the failure to modernize, not the cause. Obviously it ended up diverting a fuck ton of resources but Cixi and her support showed that China's reactionary classes still held enough influence to maintain their petty lordship while the west fucked it from the side. The Taiping hastening Qing collapse by as much as it did was probably an overall positive for Chinese modernization, or their outright victory had the west not intervened would have led to more effective efforts than anything from the Qing court.
>>18096046Pedant retard.
>>18097935>Japanese and Koreans are part of the Sinosphere and my brothersTry telling a Korean/Japanese person this. I'm sure they'll absolutely totally agree with your sentiment.
>>18098205Cixi was more worried about saving her dynasty more than anything and the west was happy to let her in charge because the dynasty is the one who signed and uphold the unequal treaties.The fact that she had despotic power to influence events to such an extent is an example of the difference between the political structure of China and Japan.The reforms in Japan were lead by the lower ranking Samurai in the peripheral domains, with the support of the puppet Emperor to overthrow the Shogun. Japan clearly benefited from a more decentralized form of governance and was able to react quickly to changes because the stakeholders actually has the agency and power to make changes.Then you have doctors who aren't qualified and botched multiple operations and cause severe harm to their patients being protected by seniors and management in order to protect the hospital's image.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENl3eh1o-SMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVMBCLCK0gY
>>18095999Aside from being a fundamentally civilized and artistic culture, unlike the Chinese, they were isolated, spoke a common language and saw the power of Western tech first hand and knew they had to adapt, or get conquered outright, so they did. Fundamentally, the Nips have always loved anything novel, mechanical, technical, etc.....When the first Western clocks arrived they were completely enamoured and made perfect replicas almost instantly. Same with military tech, cars, computers, etc.....they're just naturally high IQ engineers at heart. Honorary Volk, indeed.
>>18097053No one in this pic has a penis, shaves or is over 5'6''. LOL!
>>18098388>Aside from being a fundamentally civilized and artistic culture, unlike the ChineseLmao a massive amount of Japanese culture, art and their fucking script is based off the Chinese.>they were isolated, spoke a common languageThey were so isolated that they were baaically behind the mainland by a good amount historically. Language isn't as important as you think considering script reforms weren't consistent and political Japan was super fractured.>they're just naturally high IQ engineers at heart.Historically they weren't seen as such for a long time. Even Japanese products were seen as cheap and derivative for quite some time.
>>18097665Japan became a regional power at the turn of the century, but they were still far from developed or on par with European powers.
>>18098475Yes, in the same way movies are "based on" true stories, but are not that story. Language is culture. One language. One culture. Jews, like you, hate that because you've lost your own long ago. "historically seen as such" doesn't mean anything. The results speak for themselves. They're natural inventors and engineers who take pride in their work. Stink Chinks & Jews, like you do not. Simple as. I win.
>>18096302It's the other way around, timmy.Yayoi chads invaded the island and declared a hunt against the Jomon.The leader of this hunt was the aptly named "grand commander against the barbarian emishi (a jomon nation)". You call this leader the Shogun.The Chinese have only been conquered by each other. Their kingdoms were hijacked but now it's back in their control.
>>18098475>Historically they weren't seen as such for a long time. Even Japanese products were seen as cheap and derivative for quite some time.NTA but Japan grew out of copying the west around the mid 60s, by which point they had already learned enough from our products to start innovating from established concepts. I personally believe what makes Japan so successful is that they're amazing at expanding on foundational ideas and improving on them drastically; severely changing the landscape for any given industry. I won't pretend as if the Japanese are necessarily innovative, but they're still highly intelligent. >>18098733>The Chinese have only been conquered by each other>TimmyMongols never existed.Nor did the Manchus.Or the....Japanese-
>>18098749Mongols paid Han Chinese banner armies to rape their Dzungar cousins and put an end to Mongolian independence.Manchus abandoned their semi nomadic lifestyle and fully embraced sinicization and allowed Han chinese to impregnate their women.
>>18098723Most of the Japanese vocabulary is from Chinese and English, not to mention Kanji. Japanese traditional culture itself is from China and modern culture from America. Japanese philosophy and religion is also ripped off from China. Zen and Tendai are both from China. Even Shinto wrote their Nihon Shoki and Kojiki because they were jealous of the epics written by China. Japan spent their history copying first China and then Jewish America. Japanese science and engineering was also well behind China before the Black Ships and their technology was a rip off of Jewish American technology leading up to the 20th century. You lose :)
>>18098749China's ridiculously long history and you only have two examples of foreign conquerers. Japan tried to but failed and was then conquered themselves by America, becoming MacArthurs personal fiefdom
>>18095999because the chinese were arrogant idiots that thought the only useful thing the euros had were clocks. inb4 the usual cope about muh qings, any han dynasty would've done the same shit
>>18098342>the west was happy to let her in chargeThe original set of demands to the chinese government at the end of the boxer rebellion included the handing over of a number of "war criminals" and #1 on the list was Cixi for her support of the boxers in the early part of the war. It was only through intense negotiation by Qing diplomats who said this would be an unacceptable loss of national honor that this was dropped in exchange for promises that she would be stripped of any political power and put under effective house arrest for the rest of her life.
>>18097053>tfw no obese white gf
>>18098733You're a child.Yayoi took over by their sheer numbers but the Yamato elites, including the emperors, the shoguns, the samurais and paternal lineage of more than 1/3rd of Japanese people is Jomon.Jomon clearly punched above their weight.Japan is in effect a society of Yayoi lead by Jomon Bvlls. This dilution of the Jomon race still managed to create one of the most impressive and civilized society on Earth. One can only imagine how Japan would be if it was pure Jomon
>>18097665No they were not, the standard of living was atrocious and they didn't have heavy industries until the 1910s.Even with industries, they were stuck copying the west much like China did now until the end of WW2 when American liberalized them, gave their peasants rights and land and created a strong domestic market for them to actually make of use of the industrial power to make consumer goods. Prior to that, their industries was exclusively geared to making war machines that don't benefit the economy
Why is it so hard for chinks to admit that Japan is simply them but better?
>>18095999Japan didn't exactly modernize itself, it got btfo in a world war and had their traditional imperial government forcibly replaced with a contingent of hostile foreign globohomo government agencies that prevented them from having a standing army of their own and used a shitload of propaganda while exploiting the citizens as test monkeys for radioactive tests and protoMKultra psychological experiments.
>>18098828Because admitting that they fucked because of their inherent arrogance is too much to bear, so they invent weird copes like this >>18098850like the Pacific Theater in WW2 was just lacquer armored samurais getting slaughtered until the bombs were dropped
>>18098828japan is quite literally a giant airbase for u.s. military. they will get the ukraine treatment when america tires of the diplomatic approach with china. you are probably american, so you think that japanese are better cos they are effectively your slaves and therefore their subservience is useful to you. but china people actually control the destiny of their country, at least right now.
>>18098859>They still had an antiquated imperial emperor and form of government and society, so that means they still had antiquated armor and armies too.
>>18098850he didn't say that japan modernized itself. nips were savages until the americans civilized them. not even japanese gonna contest that.
>>18098864Anyone that unironically believes Japan's path to modernity started after being defeated in WW2 is a retard that deserves to be mocked
>>18098866The path started before but they didn't get there until after
>>18098887The fuck does that even mean? Why can't you wumaos just admit they got there first, you can still do the "um akchaoally they did it wrong unlike us" shit
>>18098891It means exactly what it says, retard. Why can't you weebs comprehend basic history?
>>18098891Because they didn't, before the intervention, they had some outmoded imperial government that could easily justify bombing other nations with a steady supply of human sacrifices instead of a modern democratic society that follows the general modern protocols of a shared global civilization.
>>18098893>It means exactly what it says, retardNo it doesn't, Xiao. Show us exactly where pre-Hiroshima Japan differed from post-Hiroshima Japan to the point we can generally conclude that Japan wasn't modern before they got humiliated in WW2
>>18098897>they had some outmoded government that could easily justify bombing other nations with a steady supply of human sacrificesI don't exactly think the Allies had any significant moral opposition to bombing other nations
>>18098899You genuinely believe the quality of live and development of 1930s Hiroshima was on par with the developed West? Compared to 1970s Hiroshima? You gotta get that Jap dick out of your mouth. Japan was a military power by then, not a fully developed and modernized country. Japan did not become a fully modernized country until the 70s.
>>18098908>You genuinely believe the quality of live and development of 1930s Hiroshima was on par with the developed West?I suspect the quality of life in 1930s Hiroshima was closer to 1930s Birmingham or Frankfurt than it was to 1930s Chongqing or Beijing
>>18098903I think skipped the part about the massive amounts of intentional human sacrifice in lieu of modern bombs and missiles.
>>18098801Yes the yayoi took over by sheer numbers and raped Jomon into obscurity. Their enrapening was so successful that only people that know about the Jomon is you and all the other glowies on here. That's what we call a victory in this here thing called history. I don't care if the numbers were 1,000 to 1. Those subhumans voluntarily decided to continue living like savages instead of adopting superior agricultural sedentary lifestyles.>muh dey akshaully won because dew ancestwy waws 1/3 jomonYes their women spread their legs for short yayoi lanklet warlords. Good for them. Even now the Japanese continue their righteous crusade against the jomon indojeet savages by persecuting the Ainu. You can't even call yourself Ainu without being arrested for terrorism over there.>This dilution of the Jomon race still managed to create one of the most impressive and civilized society on Earth. One can only imagine how Japan would be if it was pure JomonIt's impressive in the eyes of a smelly steppejeet that mentally stopped growing up at age 16. Japan has the third highest suicide rate in the world. It's a slave state for its own people and an amusement park for shut in dork tourists whose only shot at proliferating their putrid bloodline is flying out to Oceania and getting a mail order bride. While it's pretty safe as far as crime goes and it's really clean, people are clearly not happy and the population is only dwindling.>>18098863The beloved tangerine nazi that chuds adored is currently negotiating a total encuckenment of both Taiwan and Japan. Technology is only getting more sophisticated and it's get to a point where the US can't defend its assets across the Pacific anymore. Drumpf knows this so he is mitigating his losses by retreating to his tranny bunker, negotiating an unfavorable deal with China, and yelling out "yellow peril" along the way like the coward amerimutt he is.
>>18098914Wumaos of all people shouldn't be trying to play the "dying in futility for your country is barbaric" card kek.
>>18098913I suspect today's Manila and Skopje are closer to Birmingham and Frankfurt than Kabul and Bangui. Still doesn't make them fully developed.
>>18098921Feel free to post anything corroborating the claim that japanese living standards were closer to chinese ones than they were to western ones, yang
>>18098918More like mass raping and beheading civilians is barbaric. Go take a shower weeb. Aiko isn't gonna let you hit.
>>18098913Japanese average income was 1/10th that of the US during 1930s. Its population growth was outpacing its development, especially in the countryside where tenant farmers couldn't pay rent.This was one of the reason why their army went apeshit and was determined to expand the Japanese colonial empire in the 30s. The army was absorbing a lot of countryside recruits and their pent-up socioeconomic grievances. It became firmly convinced that Japan can serve its peasants by taking Asian from the Yuros
>>18098925>Yeah butHaven't you got some large mammal to drive into extinction over penis size insecurity, Xialong
>>18098908>>18098913As a matter of fact, many old Japanese today still have a hard time believing Japan is now a developed country
>>18098927>kkkkkkkkkNow compare it to the chinese average income
>>18098918I didn't, I said it was an outmoded, archaic way to do warfare which is why they couldn't compete with modern armies and got their ass handed to them and their old timey government displaced after they tried to make a first strike against a more modernized opponent.
>>18098935You've shifted the goalposts into modernity being tied to warfare which was never the original argument.
>>18098934I'm not Chinese or the anon you're arguing with, go read a book, man.Japan had a top-down mode of development when it westernized in the late 19th. The state and the military hoarded all the economic and technological gains.It was after ww2 when land reform was introduced, militarism was abandoned and favorable international trade positions was restored (i.e. not being a pariah state that is embargoed by everyone and allowed to export their goods to the west) that the Japanese was able to put their industrial power and technical ability into productive uses and improve the standard of living, which would not reach western standard until the 1970s.Japan's transformation into a developed high-income country is a very studied subject.
>>18098922When did I say China was a developed country in the 30s? It wasn't even a unified country. Your argument is essentially "You say Kazakhstan isn't a fully developed and modernized country?! Well go compare them to Burundi! Gotcha!"
>>18098863Holy. Fucking. ESL.Ignoring your laughable English, Japan was going to reach modernity first, one way or another. You want to know why? For one, they were wise enough to accept their match once people far ahead of them came knocking at their doorstep. You can scream "le barbaric" all day long till the cows come home, but it doesn't change the fact that the European man, despite the mockery, still took a liking to the Japanese. If even a shallow fascination at the time. The Nips seized that opportunity and decided to analyze the works of the Euro man and bring their innovations to the East (something they were already doing, even during their isolationist years). You can argue about whether Japan had reached our level by the time the 20th century rolled around. I'd say they were much closer than you Changs were, if not struggling to keep up with us. But it was still quite a valiant effort to attempt post-industrial living. The majority of third world shitholes then and even now could and can never even dream of even copying us. The fact the Nippoids started to develop as an industrial force in the early 20th century is incredibly impressive by non-European standards. They were creating their own animated works, they were dipping their toes into car manufacturing, men like Jōkichi Takamine discovered and contained adrenaline, the chemical 'urushiol' (an irritant found in poison ivy/oak) was discovered by a Japanese man; etc etc. Japan's rise to reaching first world status was slow, but it was a path the Japanese were taking full speed ahead. Quit coping. Stop dilating. Anime website, chigger cheet. >by the way, if you want to see a real American vassal state in eastern Asia, look no further than South Korea. They were even farther behind than anyone else around them; we practically built their fucking nation from the ground up
>>18098937Nope, modern warfare has been part of the discussion of a modern government since at least >>18098850 given that warfare is exactly what forced japan to officially abandon their divine imperial government for a more modern democracy where the emperor is just an impotent figure head.
>>18098939>>18098946The claim was Japan wasn't being modernized and now its what, modernity is land reform and ending militarism? Was Germany not modern before 1918?
>>18098952You claimed it was developed and on par with the west in 1900sSee >>18097665You're way too emotional. I'm not that anon or a Chinese person. Japan really didn't have a modernized society, the standard of living was poor and can not be considered developed.They were still immigrating to fucking Brazil before ww2.If you want to list scientists then Tsarist Russia and the USSR produced plenty too but we all know how miserable the people there lived
>>18098948>by the way, if you want to see a real American vassal state in eastern Asia, look no further than South Korea. They were even farther behind than anyone else around them; we practically built their fucking nation from the ground upYou mean the japanese were totally okay with getting gangraped by american soldiers on okinawa and having their entire constitution written by americans.The average japanese cares little about what happens outside their bubble, living under a literal one party state for most of "liberal democratic japan" with the LDP.You see more koreans and even the fucking chinese willing to protest against their governments than the japanese.Japan is the most loyal vassal samurai to America, just like feudal times.
>>18095999japan was more centralized.
>>18096046Critical genius.
>>18097053meh, nons only like white women because they're trophies. they're actually mid as fuck
>>18099075>You see more koreans and even the fucking chinese willing to protest against their governments than the japanese.The Japanese have begun to finally push back against their government (turns out, niggers and jeets were the straws that broke the camel's back).Also, like I've stated previously, South Korea owes almost everything it has to the United States. At least Japan (and yes, even China to a certain extent) was already on the path to modernization. Korea was even worse than Japan and China. We've propped up the Koreans to an insane degree; they take more cues from our democracy than Japan does, and we oversaw the writing of their (Japans) fucking constitution.
>>18100297It was the Chinese and mass tourism that broke the camels back. Jeets are a complaint but a far more minor one than chud social media makes it out to be, with it focusing entirely on them and rarely if ever mentioning the Chinese at all when complaints about them by the Japanese have been the most significant.>Korea was even worse than Japan and ChinaKorea was annexed by Japan and was defacto annexed by Qing China prior, who had also crushed the reformist Koreans. If Korean development was stunted in the late 19th-mid 20th century, Japan and China have a heavy hand to play in that being the case, as they were not an independent nation. And don't underestimate just how much the US put into rebuilding Japan. The US spent significantly more on Japan post war than they did on South Korea. Also, at least the South Koreans have a good excuse for tolerating the US military presence, with them still technically being at war with North Korea and needing the US as a deterrence. Japan has less excuse for being so servile.
>>18100430>Jeets are a complaint but a far more minor one than chud social media makes it out to beYes and no. Yes in that Japan hasn't faced the brunt of Indian immigration (mostly because jeets are too retarded to learn Japanese). No in that the Japanese have seen what Indians do to other nations like the UK and Canada. It's a pretty big grievance for them only because they know what southern Asians are capable of. >It was the Chinese and mass tourism that broke the camels back. They usually bring chinks up in tandem with jeets and sand niggers. It's not as if the Japanese have ever fancied the Chinese to begin with; they've probably always complained about chink immigrants purely because of the beef between Nips and Ching Chongs. Then again, I'm naive as to how the Japanese and Chinese get along nowadays. The chinks could be just as bad as middle Easterns over there. Could also be East Asians acting like Balkans. I don't know.
Forgot to add this in my post, but yeah; tourism has strained Japan's perception of foreigners by a large mile. The Nigger Kick streamer and his replicas put the final nails in the coffin.
>>18096048I fucking hate Cixi and all my homies hate Cixi, she's the poster child for the idea of never letting a woman rule, ever.
>>18100430>And don't underestimate just how much the US put into rebuilding Japan. The US spent significantly more on Japan post war than they did on South Korea.That's only because we desecrated them. Obviously, more money will go into a country that was recently destroyed by nukes. This doesn't change the fact Japan was relatively industrialized pre-WWII. The U.S. funding Japan from devastation was only speeding up a process already well into motion. And in terms of their constitution, our main priority was to halt Japan's progress in becoming a military superpower so that they would never pull a stunt like Pearl Harbor ever again. Everything else was us simply copying almost everything from our own constitution. I'll concede that our military presence in Japan is frankly more of a power play than anything (also, any military presence near China is a win in our book, and we're technically obligated to protect Japan since we dismantled their military). But Japan, at least at one point, was quite a formidable military force in the east. They'd probably be even more powerful if it weren't for WWII. >Japan has less excuse for being so servile.Their excuse is that we forced them into being docile. We gave South Korea around 12 billion after the Korean War. And we funded them through the late 40s, all the way into the mid 70s. We might have given Japan more money upfront, but again—they got nuked, and we stopped giving them money after the early 50s. South Korea received aid from us for a much longer period of time. We also heavily shaped South Korea's constitution (although instead of us writing it ourselves, they simply chose to copy ours). I'd say for a nation that wasn't raped by nuclear weapons, and was heavily protected by the Allied nations during their own war, South Korea owes much of its success to us. Like you've stated; both China and Japan annexed Korea at one point in time. Korea was always the lesser of the three.
>>18097978
People say that Japan was already centralised and hence, modernising the state was easy but wasn't power extremely fractured by the late Edo period and that's why the Shogunate was unable to put up any resistance to the rebels?How exactly did the Meiji restorers manage to quickly centralise the country?
>>18095999An understated part of Japan’s modernisation, I feel, is that most of the Japanese population was literate. They could be a lot easier trained up to adjust their changing circumstances. In China only a very small percentage of the population was literate and those who were tended to be elites who were quite happy to keep China from modernising as they grew concerned it would affect their power if not outright displace them.
>>18097201Never knew Japan joined the Warsaw Pact. Learn something every day.
>>18095999high literacy and OP decisions
Why didn't the Ottomans do enough to modernize? They have a lot of fucking time to try and fix at least some of their existential problems but by the end pretty much none of them were fixed besides having a strong bureaucracy
>>18100909>based literacy gatekeepers
>>18095999Post-Qing China didn't unite until the late 1940s. Comparatively speaking they went from a borderline Medieval state to a modern industrial one quickly
>>18096039The actual reason is density as always. North Korea is poor because it lacks a port.This topic is proving all of my memes. Japan had ports, it based it's entire initial economy in tourism, despite not having resources it pillaged China for everything. China did develop earlier than claimed and Japanese steel all came from China and the entirety of Japanese industrialization was from Chinese and Indonesian support. The rail systems in China and Japan are a lot more similar in time because they are a more honest indicator. In reality both countries developed at a similar rate and Japan had more bureaucracy, due to density.
>>18097053Melody marks gained some weight, damn shameful Also i think that may be a jap, as she was living in nippon
>>18095999Arrogance, corruption, societal stagnation, to sum it up in one sentencd. China thought it was unironically the center of the universe that the entire world revolved around. They had long subjected all their neighbors to tribute-paying vassal status and never had to fight them when they’d get uppity because they’d usually just be able to bully them diplomatically and economically. Any new people they encountered they would arrogantly label barbarian by default, and assume their inherent superiority to them. Their society didn’t allow for any reasonable amount pf ease in terms of upwards social mobility and the rigid hierarchy allowed for rampant corruption and exploitation with no innovation. All the arrogance and negligence that lead to the death of Rome was also present in Chin, but 1000x more intense with about 15 other detrimental, chronic issues. Nobody (that I’ve encountered) has ever really made a comprehensive book or video essay on this, it’s just what I’ve patched together from years of research about Chinese history, society, and culture back then from ancient times up until contact with Colonial powers.
>>18100817In both countries 95% of the population were barefoot peasants before the opium wars.
>>18101506Yes, China had incredible hubris thats a good point but them never fighting their vassals is just not realistic. Korea was their most ardent tributary and they went to war with them atleast 10 times with each war lasting no less then two years in most cases. It's just as plentiful with Vietnam and any of the Mongolic states
>>18095999Japan was unified for hundreds of years. China only recently became unified in the last 70 years or so, and even then it was a bloody/ugly one. Qing China had revolts everywhere. Qing was a foreign dynasty and tried to take control of China, Tibet, Mongolia, Xinjiang, etc. While at the same time fighting the foreigners at the ports.
>>18095999As the forever regional superpower, the Chinese were too proud to acknowledge Western superiority so they were more resistant to change. And the Qing government had a vested interest in trying to avoid major societal upheval like that since it would be almost guaranteed to result in them being overthrown.The Japanese knew they were backwards nobodies and so had no issue admitting that other people might have better ideas than them. And their ruling class was able to turn modernization into a matter of national pride as the means by which they would secure their sovereignty against foreigners.
Why would the smaller nation with a shared erhinic, cultural and religious unity managed to centralize power and usher needed reforms quicker and more efficiently then the multicultural burocratic mess that was Qing China? Truly a brain scratcher.
>literacy>smaller population >willingness to conceed once anglos arrivedThat's why.
>>18095999Chinks didn't give a fuck about the outside world back then.When westerners show up with big guns and high tech the Chinese reaction was to be even more snobby.And the elites's highest concern was maintaining their power and image over the peasants rather than improving their nation and responding the foreign threats. China's ruling dynasty at this time being foreigners didn't help. But, as someone who read Chinese history, I can tell you any native Chinese dynasty would have been equally reactionary because of the way the Mandate of Heaven thing works, the ruling establishment in China are always more concerned with internal rebellion than foreign technological threats.
>>18095999Literacy rates, and they also read the room with what happened to the Chinese. The Chinese were simply too prideful to change
