Holodomor is bourgeois propaganda to slander the USSR. 1932-33 famine was real but caused by kulak sabotage, drought, and rapid industrialization strains, not "genocide." Ukrainian nationalists and Nazis coined the term in the 80s to equate communism with fascism. Stalin sent 60 percent of all USSR grain aid to Ukraine, more per capita than RSFSR. Compare to Irish famine under Brits, which was an actual genocide, with 1M dead while food was exported. Soviets collectivized to end famines forever. By 1937 harvests doubled. Anti-communists ignore 1921-22 Volga famine under Lenin that killed 5M with zero "Holodomor" cries. It's class war: kulaks hoarded grain, burned crops, killed cattle to starve the revolution. We crushed them, fed the cities, built socialism. Anyone calling it genocide is a CIA shill or Bandera simp. Prove me wrong.
>>18105427Multimillionaire William Randolph Hearst met with Hitler in the late summer of 1934 to finalize an agreement stipulating that Germany would purchase its international news from the International News Service, an agency owned by the Hearst group. By this time, the Nazi press had already launched a campaign about the "Ukrainian famine." Hearst would contribute thanks to the imagination of his great exploiter, Mr. Walker
>>18105427>Whining communist seethe about muh Kulaks being literally Hitler and CIA brobagander >Ahistorical bullshit flooding the thread in hopes of starting a political debateFuck off back to leftypol. Sage thread
>>18105427READAnother Look at StalinLudo MartensChapter V - Collectivization and the "Ukrainian Holocaust"It shows the alliance between Nazis, Ukrainazis collaborators and the US press to lie about the Holodomor.
>>18105450>United States, a criminal country, lies about everything>We should believe what your press and writers say about the USSRKys, amerigolem
>>18105450>whining about "seethe" while saging like a triggered lib>calls it ahistorical but drops zero sourcesKulaks slaughtered 40% of livestock 1928-32 to sabotage collectivization per official Comintern docs, not "CIA brobagander." Grain procurements were 7.7M tons in Ukraine in 1932, and exports dropped to 1.8M total USSR. Moscow sent 1.5M tons seed+food aid to Ukraine alone. Numbers are from Sovnarkom archives, declassified in '91. Cry more.
Then why did Soviet grain yield continue to be abysmal decades after collectivization, with the best quality soil in the world? Let me guess THE CAPITALIST CONSPIRACY put invasive beetles in the grain so they wouldn't be outperformed by superior Communist agriculture!kek, you tankies really are something
>>18105455>Le Stalin said it so it must be true>Soviet propaganda press and intelligence agencies is totally trustworthy bro
>>18105482>best quality soil>abysmal yields decades afterWrong. 1928: 73M tons grain USSR-wide. 1940: 95M. 1953: 82M (post-war). 1958: 134M under Khrushchev’s Virgin Lands. 1978: 237M record. Per hectare Ukraine went from 9.5 qt/ha pre-collectivization to 18-22 qt/ha by 1970s, which doubled despite beetles, drought, war.>Lysenko Overblown. Real issue: war destroyed 40 percent of tractors and 98k collective farms, left 20M dead. Rebuilt by 1950. US embargoed machinery till the 70s. Still outproduced tsarist 1913 peak by 3x in 30 years. Capitalism’s Ireland never recovered soil fertility after 1840s. USSR ended famines forever by 1937.>beetlesColorado potato beetle? CIA airdropped it in 1950, literally confirmed in Stasi files. Still didn’t stop 200M+ ton harvests. Your turn, bitch.
>>18105489>Wrong.It's indisputably true that Ukraine and Western Russia have the most fertile agricultural lands in the world. Which is why they are major grain producing regions today.>1928: 73M tons grain USSR-wide. 1940: 95M. 1953: 82M (post-war). 1958: 134M under Khrushchev’s Virgin Lands. 1978: 237M record. Per hectare Ukraine went from 9.5 qt/ha pre-collectivization to 18-22 qt/ha by 1970s, which doubled despite beetles, drought, war.And capitalist agriculture exploded in productivity far more in the same timeframe LOL>US embargoed machinery till the 70sSo what? Why do superior communist countries need inferior capitalist equipment?>Still outproduced tsarist 1913 peak by 3x in 30 years.Data shows otherwise, it was actually less when you take into account the fact that Tsarist Russia underestimated their grain production and the USSR tried to fudge and engineer the numbers, source: https://polit-ec.livejournal.com/7428.html>USSR ended famines forever by 1937then why were there breadlines in the 70s, 80s, and 90s? did kulaks and beetles>Colorado potato beetlethe US had that same beetle and it never stopped capitalist agriculture from utterly mogging the communist one in yields, to the point where the USSR needed to import food from capitalist nations (unlike modern Russia and Ukraine which are massive food exporters)
>>18105427>muh kulaksgive one reason why kulaks should hoard their grain
>>18105559>>18105559not hoard their grain
>>18105540>indisputably true that Ukraine and Western Russia have the most fertile agricultural lands which is why they are major grain producing regions todaySure, chernozem soil is prime and Soviets knew that, which is why they invested in it. Post-USSR? Capitalist oligarchs export grain while locals pay market prices. Soviet era: grain for domestic use, not profit export. Today Ukraine exports 40M+ tons but imports food aid amid war. "Major producers" under capitalism means BlackRock owns the land.>capitalist exploded moreUS? Sure, from 1920s Dust Bowl famines to 1950s subsidies turning corn into HFCS obesity bombs. USSR went from feudal plow to 1.5M tractors by 1953, feeding 250M with zero imports pre-60s. "Explosion" means debt-peonage for Monsanto profits.>Why do superior communist countries need inferior capitalist equipment?Because imperialism embargoed tech (US CoCom bans till 1990s on tractors/combines). Soviets built their own (MTZ, Kharkov) but started from scratch post-1917. Fordson copies in 1930s, then innovated. "Inferior"? US imported Soviet ideas like combine harvesters from Rostselmash designs. Superiority: no Dust Bowl famines under socialism.>data shows otherwise>livejournal blog citing a 2009 monographCherrypicked yield stagnation narrative ignores total output: Tsarist 1913 ~80M tons (actual, not peasant lies). Soviet 1950: 128M tons. 1976: 223M. Yeah, war, Nazis torching Ukraine's fields, and Cold War sieges slowed yields, but 3x pop, 3x output. Your "fudged" cope? Even the blog admits post-64 we never dipped below 1913. Source admits it. Tsarist "underestimation" = kulak tax evasion. Soviet "пpипиcки" = beating quotas to smash hunger. The reality is that we industrialized ag while capitalists colonized Africa for phosphates.cont.
>>18105691>breadlines 70s-90sBrezhnev stagnation and Gorbachev's perestroika clusterfuck/revisionist sabotage, not "kulaks." No famine deaths, unlike Reagan's Central America death squads. Lines? Better than Mao's backyard furnaces, but still socialism delivering basics while US rust belt ate lead paint.>beetle didn't stop capitalistsIt ravaged US potatoes too ($100M losses in the '50s). But the USSR imported to diversify: 20M tons wheat from Canada/US '72 drought year, one-off. Never "needed" like capitalist India begs IMF loans. Post-USSR Russia/Ukraine? Capitalist carve-up sold sovkhozy to oligarchs, but still export kings 'cause Soviet base. No beets required.
>>18105691Every nation on earth say ag improvements, it was nothing to do with sov policy per se. They brought in tractors which the Tsar gov could do also.
>>18105691Every nation on earth say ag improvements, it was nothing to do with sov policy per se. They brought in tractors which the Tsar gov could do also. If Sov policy was truly productive it would still be alive to this day. Remember the Sovs were not crushed by three empires but collapsed internally as soon as Estonia said no to them and they found they had not the will anymore to impose their system.
>>18105691>Today Ukraine exports 40M+ tons but imports food aid amid war.which is the fault of russian shills (i.e. communists and "anti-woke" conservatives) for equating not worshipping the russian gov to nazism>BlackRock owns the land.blackrock is an asset manager, not a private equity firm.
>>18105450Kulaks in the USSR were much like big farmers in the U.S.: leeches who demand high prices for their products while demanding you subsidize the windfall. Stalin was right to crush these pests, fuck these traitorous crybabies.
>>18105959>crush farmers and peasantsthis is the communist
>>18106013>>crush farmers and peasants>but we frame it as "getting rid of world jewry" so it's different :)This is the shitlerite
>>18105427The USSR returned the farmers to serfdom. They were forced back into estates (collective farms) under pain of death and then coerced to work on land they no longer owned to produce food they were no longer paid for. These people were like one or two generations removed from serfdom. Did you really think changing the name of something would make them happy to return to being bound to the land as little more than farm equipment?
>>18106013>crush the richest and greediest farmers on behalf of the peasantsthis is the communism I stand for
>>18106112None of these people were really rich. They might have had a few more acres, or a nicer house and more livestock, but these were just middle class people mildly more successful than some of their neighbors. They weren’t boyars with massive estates.
>the Holodomor was fake and unjustified smearing of the USSR>the Holodomor was real and justified smearing of the USSR>either way still smearing the USSRworks for me
>>18105427>caused by kulak sabotageyeah those kulaks hiding their family's food from thieving USSR jewsshame on them!
>>18105695>>18105691You used ChatGPT to write this. It has the same sassy style as AI.
Definition of kulak:Use of permanent hired labor.Ownership of a mill, a creamery (мacлoбoйня, 'butter-making rig'), other processing equipment, or a complex machine with a motor.Systematic renting out of agricultural equipment or facilities.Involvement in trade, money-lending, commercial brokerage, or "other sources of non-labor income."If you own a mill or a butter churn you die. God forbid you’re rich enough that you hire help or even have something with a motor in it. Man. Tankies are fucked up.
>>18106065Hitler had serious farmland support and was good to farmers and peasants. So no its not the same.>>18106112They were neither rich nor greedy, they were productive - such was the nature of their success.>>18106228Tankies are a capitalist liberal inspired meme to take out the Tsar. commie activists supported and armed by western powers. White armies received nothing from the west. Even the US expedition was just holding a railroad not taking action for the white army.
in 1914 Russian Empire peasants owned 75% of arable land and were free citizens.In 1934 Bolsheviks took all land from peasants and reinstalled serfdom (they didn't called that serfdom so it didn't get attention but peasants were literally tied to land as feudal serfs again).Soft canceling of this neo serfdom only happened in 1974 when soviets peasant started to get internal passports. That of course accelerated the USSR's collapse as everyone with two brain cells fled the horror that was Soviet agriculture and it collapsed, burying the USSR with it.
>>18105959>Kulaks in the USSR were much like big farmers in the U.S.: leeches who demand high prices for their products while demanding you subsidize the windfall. Stalin was right to crush these pests, fuck these traitorous crybabies.Guy you were replying to here, can you prove this? I’ve never heard this theory. Most rebuttals I hear about Kulaks is just revisionist shit from commies who don’t want to criticize their own side for some reason, but if you have any evidence of this I’m interested
>>18105427Ywnbaw
