Did Ögedei's death actually save Europe from Mongols, or was there more to it?
>>18109840The only argument euroids have is le castles, but the Mongols would've just bypassed them and destroyed everything those castles needed from the fields
>>18109840No need to engage in hypotheticals,mongols are never conquering Europe, the sheer distance prevents them from doing so, excluding that, the sheer superiority of western civilization and warfare
>>18109887You mean aside from effortlessly wiping out two of the biggest armies of central Europe in like a single week?
>>18109891Yes same how the turks or moors managed to get past same Hungary or Spain but failed miserably in Austria and France. Warfare is not deterministic
>>18109844Warring European factions did that to each other all the time, that’s why there were castles and forts everywhere.
>>18109840They got stopped in both Poland and Hungary, so there is absolutely no way the could have taken Europe as a whole or anywhere close to it.
>>18109891NO SUCH THING AS CENTRAL EUROPE
>>18109947Peak mongols conquered and destroyed both and went as far as the Adriatic sea, it was only later invasions when they had run out of steam and fragmentized that they were repelled
>>18109840No. The raiding party was already leaving Europe before the news of Ogedei's death.What saved Europe is that it was far from Mongolia and also poorer than China and Persia, so the Mongolians spent most of their resources in Asia.
>>18109986If they conquered and destroyed Hungary and Poland how were they then later repelled?
>>18110049They withdrew because the Khan died and then the empire fragmented, later invasions were done by the Golden Horde which was a mongol rump state and not the actual empire itself.
>>18109840Yes. Twice too. They had their Khan died twice in the middle of battle and the horde had to be called back for Kurultai (coronation of new khan).
>>18109840hows this chump going to beat a guy in plate armor
>>18109844Europe gets harder to conquer the more north/west you go. They would have faced more and more resistance the further they pushed. Zero chance they could've conquered all of Europe even if Genghis were immortal.
>>18110057So they didn't conquer and destroy them is what you're saying?
>>18110195The withdrawal happened after they were conquered and destroyed
>>18110207So who repelled them if the people living there were already conquered and/or destroyed?
>>18110211Are you just pretending to be retarded?
what kinda stupid name is chungus kahn anyway
>>18110214No, I'm just asking you simple questions
>>18110220I already answered your question and if you're curious then maybe you should read about the subject instead of asking dumb shit
>>18110229I'm only curious why you're contradicting yourself. They supposedly conquered the area and utterly destroyed it, but then they had to conquer it again and this time they were repelled by who exactly, the people they had destroyed?
>>18110231There's no contradiction, they raped, pillaged and destroyed everything they came across in Europe facing no setbacks, then some unrelated shit happened in their homeland so they had to withdraw. The later invasions you're talking about weren't even done by the og Mongol empire but by a rump state.
>>18110241>The later invasions you're talking about weren't even done by the og Mongol empire but by a rump state.The differences being?
>>18109840No, his death has nothing to do with it. No horsenigs have ever made further than hungary and austria, where the eurasian steppe ends.
>>18109891>wiping out two of the biggest armies of central EuropeIf by central europe you mean anything east of germany, yes.
>>18109840Yep. It saved Hungary from total devastation.
>>18109840>>18109844And your argument seems to be that 20k Mongols could spend years stampeding around Europe without taking any casualties, never running out of supplies, never taking casualties from crossbows or shitting themselves to death from dysentry and manage to conquer several different Kingdoms numbering millions of people divided by mountain ranges and seas.Knights and castles is a sound argument. As the Mongols approached Vienna, Austrian knights did what they do best, rode out with fresh horses, surprised and destroyed a small raiding party. Though to be fair castles were just one factor among many. European crossbows guaranteed a proportion of the Mongol army would die every engagement. The increasingly forested and alluvial terrain of western Europe created more chokepoints where the Mongol army loses its advantage in maneuver and a higher likelihood of disaster. It took decades for the Mongols to complete their invasion of southern China for similar reasons. In the northern Chinese plain Mongol cavalry tactics worked, further south not so much.So the Mongols make a more concerted effort to conquer Europe over decades, not just to pillage, but permanent territorial gain. It is true the Poles and Hungarians made the same mistake as the Kievan Rus, their cavalry charging off and getting surrounded, but how long would that last? Are "euroids" doofuses incapable of ever realizing Mongol horse archers run circles around heavy cavalry? Did the Mongols have the numbers and supplies this far west?t was impossible if you actually think about it, but something tells me this is not what we're doing here.
>>18109844The Mongols failed to take the stone castles in Hungary THOUGH. Western Europe was filled with them, unlike Eastern Europe which was largely wooden. Western Europe was significantly more developed, fielded larger armies, was wealthier and the end of the Eurasian steppe was at Hungary. How do you expect to feed nearly 100,000 horses or more on campaign in Western Europe? It’s not like how the Mongols fought was unknown to them, the Crusaders almost exclusively fought against nomadic Turks who fought in the same way and military orders had a great experience fighting them
>>18111249>>18111949You don't get it, horse archers are supersoldiers and 100 horse archers can easily conquer the planet they just didn't ok?? MONGOLS CANT' LOOSE
>>18109840No, completely debunked by modern historians, but retards still keep repeating the myth. They started retreating before the news could physically reach them. They knew the Khan was close to death so if it was so important they wouldn't have launched an invasion at the same time. Batu had no chance of being the successor anyway because of his disputed heritage.
>>18109891>effortlessly wiping out two of the biggest armiesthey suffered heavy casaulites in Hungary, retard, it's literally in the mongol sources
>>18109840The Mongols were actually kinda saving Europe. They only invaded because the retarded king of Hungary invited some asiatic Cuman Tartar fucks for obscure reasons, and the Mongols were going to kill all of those Tartar fucks.
>>18110271they are hybrid subhuman muslim not chad tengri mongol. You feel lucky for that.
>>18113066they will ez kill all fucking europe if they using all power. China is the fucking best strongest faction in that time.
>>18111949>100.000 horsesyou're underselling it. steppe niggaz brought 3-4 mounts each on campaignIt would have been even worse for them had they tried
>>18113234>they are hybrid subhuman muslimWrong Islam became prominent only with Ozbeg Khan who came to power decades after the second invasion. >chad tengri mongolGooks aren't "chad" are Mussulmans are a thousand times superior to primitive Siberian voodoo.
