No, you're right, the guys who told us that 40 Jew babies were beheaded by Khamas and then baked in an oven by Khamas, would never lie about anything.

>>18110178
That's not evidence.

>>18110173
Yeah, I don't get why the chuddies go on here about that. They should go the Holocaust museum and say it to their faces all day and film it.

>>18110189
>people being caught lying about one massacre doesn't mean they lied about another massacre!

They don't have positive proof for anything. They (at least, the 'serious' Holocaust deniers like Germar Rudolf and Carlo Mattogno, not people doing the stupid wooden door, bear and eagle, etc stuff) say that the death camps were transit camps and the Jews were "deported east" and admit they have no physical or historical evidence for it at all. They don't actually have an alternative historiography of what happened during that time, they simply treat things like a court case where they try to get all the evidence for the Holocaust 'thrown out in court' so to say and then act like they don't have to explain anything.

>>18110173
Yes, jan Karlski is described by Mattogno going round Europe blowing up stories into atrocity propaganda.

See his book on the AR camps. Or look up that name on the encyclopedia.

>>18110254
The Chemistry of Auschwitz 2020 demonstrates that the alleged gas chambers were not used for killing people.
In the Real case for Auschwitz Mattogno examines the documents that Pressac and van Pelt use to make their accusations and showed that the camp facilities were benign thus the holocaust allegations are definitively disproved and debunked.

>>18110265
>Chemistry is not the science which can prove or refute any allegations about the Holocaust rigorously
Germar Rudolf

>>18110254
There are numerous examples of the holocaust narrative that were either exaggerated or even completely fictionalized, like the lampdshades or human bars of soap. They brought in multiple lampshades and tested them (each proved to be goatskin, not human) and the bars of soap comes from ww1 an tigerman propaganda that gets erroenously assigned to the nationalist socialist order. It doesnt make you a bit suspicious that many of the biggest claims against the germans are complete fabrications? I dont think saddam husseins regime was innocent, but I highly doubt some of the claims that the US military (and israel) makes about it. Like that saddam owned a quran written in childrens blood, or that he owned nukes.

>>18110265
how did this Preejac guy proved that humans are immune to posion gas?

>>18110281
Yes there were rumors and exaggerated claims made but that doesn't negate the Holocaust since that's true of any historical event, and one of the Buchenwald lampshades was recently tested and actually found to be made of human skin. They didn't even think it was until it was tested within the past few years.

>>18110173
>THEY TURNED US INTO SOAP
>sorry that was made up
>THEY TURNED US INTO LAMPS
>sorry that was made up
>THEY THREW BABIES INTO THE AIR
>sorry that was made up
>THEY PUT US INTO MASTURBATION MACHINES
>sorry that was made up
>THEY ROLLERCOASTERED US RIGHT INTO THE OVENS
>sorry that was made up
>4 MILLION JEWS DIED RIGHT HERE IN AUSCHWITZ
>sorry that was made up
>BUT DON'T YOU EVER EVER EVER EVER QUESTION ANYTHING ELSE WE'VE CLAIMED AND USE AS A POLITICAL BLUDGEONING TOOL TO FURTHER OUR INTERESTS

>>18110289
>since thats true of any historical event
So when the romans claim that the ancient jews were evil warlocks were worshipped saturn, ate infants and wore the skins of their enemies after massacring them, we can assume thats all true with just some exageration? Okay then

Also source for said buchenwald lampshade that tested positive for human skin. Since its a recent test its probably bullshit anyways, but ill give you the opportunity to scramble and move goalposts since your source doesnt exist

>>18110289
neonazis goal is to prey on emotions of simple people and not have a good faith discussion or care about logic or historical truth thus they always bring up those rumors
basically they want to sound smart but without going too much into the details

>>18110243
No, a single guy lying is not evidence that another guy lied. When you have millions of people, some of them are going to be liars. Many more will get details wrong. None of this is proof of a conspiracy or coverup. And just to be clear, such of conspiracy or coverup would require the cooperation of governments and academics across national boundaries over decades. It is not a serious possibility.

>>18110303
Projection. Jews prey on emotions with these elaborate bullshot sob stories about how their grandma got turned into soap or whstever and scream and browbeat people into submission if anyone asks questions or presents evidence that is contrary to their feelings that are real im their mind

>>18110310
>da joooooz
case in point

>>18110304
>a single guy lying
Only they have consistently lied about this sort of thing since they have existed as a people. There is no evidence germans ever made jews into soap or lampshades outside of jewish made propaganda that was pushed ubto allied nations even before the discovery of any 'death camps'

>>18110298
So no proof of Jews saying "Let's pretend a genocide happened when it didn't?" just extreme strawmens? No Jewish Wansee Conference where the minutes show them saying "Let's pretend we were genocided in WW2"

>>18110315
who are they?

>>18110314
>discussion about a historical event closely related to the jews
>retard thinks "da joooz" is some kind of gotchya that proves chids are obsessed with jews
Thanks for showing that nose of yours moishe, i thought maybe you were just a naive goy at first

>>18110322
>da joooooz + more pol buzzwords
case in point

>>18110318
Your mother fucked a unicorn on the 7th sunday of 1989.

If you can't find proof of me explicity saying that I'm going to make up the above, then it is indeniably true and you should be fined and jailed for denying it.

I've read several of the Holocaust handbooks and I really wasn't impressed. They did not destroy the Holocaust and own the Jews. They just use incredibility as an argument and say shit things like

>this guy said the gas chamber was 4 meters by 4 meters
>this other guy said it was 5 meters by 5 meters
>this clearly means it never existed

or when they say that the verbs for liquidate, destroy, etc all merely had metaphorical meanings but when they said "deported east" they literally meant that process was happening (no proof btw)

>>18110330
but you just said it, discord is not sending their best

>>18110318
Conspiracies dont happen like that retard. You dont need a conference to do these things. Black people have never held a conference in their entire lives yet they all seem to be pretty good at pretending to be victims while raping white kids and killing white women. It doesnt take a genius to plan this shit, only a retard like you to not recognize it. And no, evidence that the jews lied about multiple crimes they claim were committed against them is not an extreme strawman. If someone lies in court, that discredits any other arguments they propose

>>18110328
Free palestine, death to israel

>>18110315
Even if I accepted your narrative, nations or groups exaggerating or propagandizing events does not mean they did not happen or were not bad. False narratives making their way into the history of the holocaust does not mean it did not happen. People profiteering off the holocaust does not mean it did not happen. There are lots of dead bodies and lots of witnesses, German witnesses, that it happened. The most common defense by people who worked at the camps was not that it did not happen or they had no roll in it, but that they were following orders.

>>18110337
>muh jooz
>muh blacks
did you forgot about trannies today?

>>18110336
I bet all your fellow trannies are clapping and hollering like seals at this retarded gotcha.
Not using caps doesn’t make you more of a woman by the way.
>>18110343
>muh muh jooz
>muh muh niggers
>muh muh trannies
>muh muh words
>muh muh muh
>muh >muh
>muh muh >muh
>muh
>muh
>muh muh
>muh .
>muh >
Muh

>>18110345
here come the trannies
what next? jeets? woke video games? vaccines?

>>18110337
No, listen to your friend here:
>>18110304

If it were just a few people lying this whole thing would have fallen apart 50/60 years ago. Or you at least need to provide evidence of Jews leaning on real goyish historians to not print the 'truth' because presumably a lot maybe even most of them would have said "no this is bullshit" and would need to be covered up.

>>18110330
A ridiculous physically impossible scenario you just made up is not the same thing as established history every historian agrees happened. The burden of proof is on the deniers. This isn't some sketchy event that just happened and the details are just coming in now like i said it's established history

>>18110279
Sounds like a retard.

The single biggest issue with the Holocaust to me is that supposedly
Himmler or whoever became so disgusted by seeing jews shot that they went to the gas and burn method. But even after all that, jews had to march in to gas chambers, get gassed and then after dying be individually carried to a grave or incinerator.
So
1: I don't believe these death camps had the design to kill jews in a factory manner as claimed.
2: if you were killing jews as efficiently as possible why would you force Germans to carry dead bodies around all day? It is not efficient and it is not easy on the laborers, who must see death all day every day.
So many of these supposed gas chambers have single width doors. So you're telling me German baddies clocked in every day and spent six hours happily dragging 600 lifeless body's out of this chamber on to a truck? And then unloaded them by hand again a short distance away to a grave or a incinerator? Ridiculous.

So shootings and mass Graves may have happened. Camp killings may have happened. Possibly even on order from on high. But the disease and famine narrative is plausible. A starving beaten Germany is really going to feed Jews in camps while thier own people are starving? They put the lazy b team in charge of the camps by the end of the war because all thier best soldiers were dying on the front. These are the kind of people who kill through neglect or apathy even perhaps on order from a command who knew defeat was inevitable. But a uber efficient killing program that ran for years in such a manner?
Doubtfull.
>>18110281
There were some tattood skins found as trophies at one of the camps. About three in number.

>>18110318
They did lie about the "5 million others" that were supposed to have been killed alongside the 6 million Jews, and now openly admit to having lied about that part.

>>18110357
>its established history
Funny how redditprs like you think everything in history needs to be questioned and decobstructed until it comes to the holobunga. Heres my question to you about it; assuming its real, why should I care? Jews just wiped out a million people in palestine. More than 6 million chridtians died to the islamic invasions of europe yet I dont see muslims building museums about it. Why is this one particular period in history so important ?

>>18110373
>A starving beaten Germany is really going to feed Jews in camps while thier own people are starving?
you are coming close to figuring out why Holocaust happend on your own, keep it up champ

>>18110378
oh right! we forgot about the redditors!
by now we have jooz, blacks, trannies and reddit users as relevant holocaust history informations
what's next buddy?

>>18110378
More than 100 billion humans died since 20.000 BC and yet no museums for their memory?? this is cleary a proof that a jewish-black-trans-reddit conspiracy rules the world

>>18110381
I can see that one got under your skin. Reminder, its down the hall and to the left

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>>18110173
Auschwitz is an incredibly emotional place to begin with. When I visited, there was a group from Israel all laying roses down on the tracks just inside the gate to Camp 2. This was overwhelming.

>>18110391
why would an internet site be the most controversial thing for me

>>18110357
>The burden of proof is on the deniers
Lol

>>18110380
So The United States fights a long bloody war, uts been losing for three years. Its cities are getting firebombed. The Japanese fight a bloody campaign on the western front of the United States. They stumble upon a Japanese detention camp. And they find every single Japanese well fed like a happy horse in a stable.
>these last three years, we've been eating well and playing mahjong! Were so glad you finally came to liberate us!
Seems plausible.

>>18110395
You still havent properly explained to me why of all the horrors of history we focus on the holocaust to an absurd degree, almost 100 years past its relevance to anyobe

I mean they submitted evidence to the war crimes tribunals without cross examination. So take the Holocaust testimony promoted by Poland sold in book form for mass consumption about superhero Jews and cannibal demon Germans and declare it legally a fact and that's what the US did.

>>18110378
Why do you keep assuming things about me? None of that is true, you keep side stepping the main issue which is positive proof of conspiracy and intent to conspiracy on part of the Jewish people. You're perfectly free to hate Jews if you want, take me at what I've posted not some imagined agenda you think i have.

> Jews just wiped out a million people in palestine.
Now who's exagerrating? Lol. We have proof of 90k people dead in Gaza. But that isn't history that' getting derailed.


>>18110410
Yes If I say I think The Titanic didn't sink the burden is on me to prove that. We're talking about something that happened 80years ago and isn't seriously debated-it's not like the existence of the Sea People

>>18110374
No they didn't. Millions of non Jews were murdered by the Nazis as well

>>18110463
Did I say a million? It was actually 10 million. The jews killed 100 million innocent children in palestine and baked their flesh into matzo balls. If you question these claims Ill have you thrown in prison

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>>18110495

>>18110373
Germans administered the Zyklon B pellets from holes in the roofs. The moving and cremation of bodies was done by the Sonderkommandos.

>we hate Jews
>but we would never ever kill them

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>>18110525
honestly at this point who cares if the germans killed the jews? look at what jews have done to the world and tell me with any seriousness that a world ruled by nazis would have been worse. the whole 'we saved the world from hitler' becomes more and more of a joke term each year for a reason, reddit

>>18110373
Nah the posen speeches are real only he's not describing gassing Jews he's describing executing Jewish guerillas

>>18110413
>Seems plausible.
Not really, it's seems more plausible to kill people that you hate and think that they are your eternal enemies who spend their entire time conspiring aganist you when you don't have a lot of food going around + you can take their stuff for more war effort

>>18110552
>minutes one cracker thanks to hitler losing
oh no

>>18110552
>who cares if the germans killed the jews?
You and your Nazi friends creating countless Holocaust denial threads? I'm looking forward to you ditching all the pretence and just saying out loud "Yeah, we did it, and we're proud of it!"

>>18110511
>well another day of loading bodies onto trucks. How long did that take 8 hours?
>well Hans i suppose sondercommando team B will have to unload all these bodies into the incinerator. Which has doors only one person at a time can be loaded into. Carrying all these bodies endlessly all day has made us quite strong nien?. Hiel Hitler!

>>18110173
How can you demonstrate that the Jews all over the world simply collectively decided to not have sex for the duration of World War 2?

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>>18110561
>french people throw countless lives away to save the world from fascism and racism only to be spat upon by the very people they saved; their own children get raped and butchered and some brazilian jew monkey claps and applauds and calls her a cracker
and you wonder why people question outdated wartime propaganda narratives
>>18110571
why not? your little brazilian monkey just displayed joy at the sight of white children dead. its good to know that you just hate white people and any shit you spew from your misplaced anus will just be projecting that little mental reality of yours

>>18110574
The Sonderkommandos weren't German, they were fellow Jewish inmates. As stated before, the Germans never moved or cremated the bodies themselves.

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>>18110413
Nah, if the Japanese would've landed on the West Coast, the US Army would've had to shoot Americans to prevent a Crossed Happening at those camps.

>>18110584
>just displayed joy
What is this bullshit? Why do Nazis always turn into Jews from their own propaganda and start lying and deflecting at the slightest pressure?

>>18110552
>twatter screenshot
Stopped taking you seriously here tbqhwy.

>>18110304
>it's not a serious possibility for multiple people to tell the same lie across national boundaries
The president of the United States says he saw the 40 beheaded and baked Jew babies. Is he a liar?

>>18110586
Ahh so malnourished diseased jews had to lug dead bodies of thier own people around all day every day.

>>18110584
you are next btw, nobody can stop brazilian jew monkeys

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>>18110468

>>18110586
A lot of sonderkommandos were captured communists

>>18110373
>force Germans to carry dead bodies around all day
>German baddies clocked in every day and spent six hours happily dragging 600 lifeless body's
This is the person who will spend the next several days arguing about this subject...

>>18110608
Why would you make healthy Germans lug around corpses all day when you can get the Jews to do it for the promise of slightly better rations and getting to live another day? Who cares if they die?

>>18110173
>PROVE TO ME THAT THE HOLOCAUST BEING FAKED IS TRUE!
Shouldn't you have to prove to us that 6 million Jews died and how that many could have feasibly died?

>>18110178
Nazis trying to use anti-Zionism as a way of making people anti-Jewish in general is so fucking funny because Leftists have always been the most prominent anti-Zionists and the Arab world was largely supported by Communists while Israel has been overwhelmingly more backed by fascists now

>>18110215
>chuddies
Why do you talk like a bullying victim from an 80's comedy?

>>18110620
Yes If there was a conspiracy to create a myth of the holocaust there should be positive evidence of this myth being created, rather than just problems with the 'story' being presented. Otherwise the balance of probablity suggests that the more likely outcome is deniers misinterpreting the evidence you see what I mean?

>>18110624
40 Jew babies were baked in an oven, after being beheaded, just because they were Jewish. If you doubt this, you are Khamas.

>>18110173
I have one question, why does /his/ only cry about kikes dying? The Slavs lost 10s of millions of people in this war, if anything it's them that should be the main victims, not some disgusting people where every woman sleeps with the enemy who conquers them.

>>18110670
Post where there was a big meeting to talk about faking 40 Jew babies being baked in a pie.

>>18110624
leftists and communists have more in common with actual fascists than with what you define as 'fascism' (zionist globalism and consumerism) hence why it was so easy for me to get leftist pussy during the height of anti-israel sentiment a year or so ago

>>18110678
Do you get your life ruined and potential jail time if you say 10 million slavs didn't die in the war?

>>18110617
Could that really be practiced without mass riots or suicides? I think not. The pain of transporting your own people. Especially the kews because they prized thier own people so highly.

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>>18110173
BOMES?

>>18110189
if you lie constantly people tend not to believe your wartime propaganda

>>18110693
Yes, Jew prize their own people so highly. Anyway, what is a "Judenrat" and who is the prime suspect for betraying Anne Frank's family?

>>18110687
In Russia maybe

>>18110701
Maybe?

>>18110687
being a nazi apologist will get you jailed in most slavic countries

>>18110678
>why does /his/ only cry about kikes dying?
Because /his/ is full of stormniggers who are obsessed with jews. If you bring up the non-jew victims, they'll just say they were all communist partisans.

>>18110670
It did happen but it was not enough to do much since there a few million of them across the Atlantic in safety, killing all of them in Europe would not have been enough to complete the job or make much of a dent

>>18110678
Americans only care about the Jewish deaths in WW2 because the Jewish perspective on WW2 is what gets drilled into them with Hollywood movies and school textbooks.

>>18110708
>in slavic countries
And yet holocaust denial laws are in white Christian countries. Curious!

>>18110721
being a nazi apologist will generaly get you jail in most european countries, pretty logical since nazis caused untold suffering to most of those nations

>>18110681
That's irrelevant, that's not history

>>18110693
There will always be individuals who put their own survival above everything else. Suicides are irrelevant when there are millions of inmates; there will always be replacements. Of course there were riots, there were two Sonderkommando revolts, which should tell you how bad it really was.

>>18110734
>it's irrelevant that the same people who told you to believe a ludicrous story that turned out to be false, want you to believe another ludicrous story

>>18110693
Regular reminder that the most famous piece of media about the holocaust is about a Jew making a list of which Jews to save and which Jews to let die.

>>18110742
Yes it's irrelevant to this discussion, I'm sure you would you agree that all peoples have lied at some point. The question is whether there's proof of Jewish people organising a conspiracy specifically relating to the Holocaust

>>18110748
Is there proof of Jewisu people organising a conspiracy specifically relating to 40 Jew babies being beheaded and then baked in an oven by Khamas?

>>18110173
Nazism in America is just safe edgyism. Nobody in America was ever invaded and occupied by Nazis or commies. That's why they don't have a real emotional reaction it beyond "ZOMG DEY WUZ RAYSIS". Whereas in the east there are people who still remember loved ones who were killed or disappeared by the Nazis. Neo Nazis claim it's all communist propaganda if it comes from the east, but those places haven't been communist for over 34 years.

>>18110748
>The question is whether there's proof of Jewish people organising a conspiracy specifically relating to the Holocaust
There isn't any physical evidence because they do it telepathically, you see jews can access the fourth dimension and communicate with each other like a hive mind, yes I am dead serious

>>18110556
no, he's talking about murdering civilians including children

>>18110762
so jewish guerillas

>>18110777
Jewish children were guerrillas? I thought Jews were all spineless cowards who have to trick the goyim into fighting for them?

>>18110705
There is no law in Russia. You can throw Nazi salutes, post with a Nazi flag and brag about killing people as long you're a soldier in Ukraine and/or have connections

>>18110789
Is there actually any evidence there were jewish children executed?

>>18110801
Is there actually any evidence there were Jewish children guerillas?

>>18110817
So you believe there were jewish children executed but actually can't prove it, and this is to cope with nazis lawfully ventilating jewish terrorists

>>18110824
Why can't you say if Jewish children were guerillas or not?

>>18110828
Do you have any proof jewish children were executed or is this cope because Himmler's referring to lawfully executing guerillas?

>>18110831
>no proof Jewish children were guerillas
Hang yourself.

>>18110835
>no proof jewish children were ever executed by germans
okay enjoy your atrocity propaganda dumbass

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>>18110835
Here's the picture you're referencing
>no gore
>no blood
>multiple women holding themselves up by their arms
>Gustav Hille was the photographer
>originally 7 photos 2 were destroyed, photos show the women being escorted into the ravine and told to strip and then this final photo
>All that's known about Gustav Hille was that he was a stonemason from Czechoslovakia
>Never prosecuted despite the photos being taken from him due to "lack of evidence"

Here's some AI because that's what you're worth
>the Nazis and their collaborators used photographs of executions as a form of terror and intimidation, especially in occupied territories of Eastern Europe where Jewish partisans were active. This psychological warfare was intended to demoralize not only the guerrillas themselves but also the local civilian populations who supported them.
>Photographs were taken at these events and likely circulated to amplify the horror and reach a broader audience. For instance, in occupied Serbia and other areas, the Wehrmacht would carry out mass reprisals against alleged partisans, executing Jewish people and then distributing announcements or photos to threaten the public.
>Propaganda posters would warn civilians against aiding "bandits" and often displayed the gruesome consequences of doing so.

>>18110552
>honestly at this point who cares if the germans killed the jews?
This is a real mask off moment for hoaxerfags. Deep down, they all know the holocaust happened, but they just pretend it didnt for political points. They are also retarded and think Israel has this deep control of the entire world because of the holocaust which isnt true at all. The world courts and the UN have called out Israel for committing a genocide and have called for the arrest of Bibi. All this based on world court legal precedents set in stone because of the holocaust.


Turns out most people think genocide is ghoulish

>>18110923
jews are so irrelevant even if it happened it doesn't matter, but that's not the point

>>18110831
>because Himmler's referring to lawfully executing guerillas?
He admitted on tape he was exterminating children. Why are you lying?

>>18110670
why do we have to prove that it was decided at a big secret meeting to push the 6 million holobunga?
why is proof that it is greatly exaggerated not enough?

>>18110931
You're a faggot lol

>>18110926
>jews are so irrelevant
this is a cope, especially for someone like you whos entire existence revolves around jews.

>>18110923
>muh Europe
kek
US bombed Iran those kikes run the world
you can't even slava ukraini

>>18110937
My post didnt even mention Europe. Seething hoaxer fags called out and has no response.

>>18110943
so who are you talking about other than Europe?

>>18110923
I've never cared to deny the holocaust, my position has always been one of agnosticism in regards to it. Although intuitively I believe elements of it are exaggerated, why? Because jews literally lie about their history all the time, in every era. They've managed to scrub off their role in the red terror from the historical narrative to a huge degree. It's amazing how some of the most sadistic and brutal killers of the 20th century managed to psyop everyone into thinking they were uwu helpless victims.

I don't care if it was 6 million, I wouldn't care if it was 3 million. I wouldn't care if it was 9 million. We shouldn't at all be burdened by guilt over it. There's no war crime the axis committed that the allies didn't also commit.

>Turns out most people think genocide is ghoulish

Turns out jews don't, they've been genociding the palestinians with a smile on their face.

>>18110173
Do jews have any positive proof of the 6 million being real? Some kikes probably ended up in the camps, but there is no definitive proof 6 million or anywhere close to that were killed nor that there was any policy to murder all jews

>>18110936
How are jews relevant lol, the most relevant thing about them is something that didn't even happen

>>18110956
so jews just got nukes magically

>>18110957
Nukes make you relevant? apparently not if jews got their hands on some

>>18110923
>Turns out most people think genocide is ghoulish
Most people will turn a blind eye to mass murder if it's done far away from their line of sight. For example: the meat industry, abortion, Darfur genocide, Rohingya genocide, killings of Christians in Nigeria, etc.
Even Gaza, to an extent, is ignored. The leftists who point to Gaza are doing it merely because of skin color (whites killing browns).

>>18110960
nukes are pretty relevant yeah

>>18110964
Nah they do it because it's politically convenient for them and they get their marching orders from anybody that's not american. It's appropriate they would kvetch about gaza when it's their goal to flood the west with muslims

>>18110956
I dont think jews are that relevant, but your entire existence is centered around jews so Im calling you out for claiming that they arent relevant.

>>18110964
Jews aren't white and half of Israel are Middle Eastern Jews. Some of the most fanatical genocidal zionists are Mizrahi Jews, like Ben Gvir.

>>18110972
nukes are so relevant they're never used

>>18110975
>they do it because it's politically convenient for them
Well, yes. A narrative about whites killing browns is convenient to them
>>18110979
That's just your head canon. Leftists see Israel as a white supremacist state

>>18110982
It's not about whites vs browns it's about Muslims vs the west

>>18110980
that's the point, it's called nuclear deterrence, which is why they stopped Iraq and Iran from getting them

>>18110991
Same thing

>>18110954
6 million Jews disappeared from Europe during WW2, where did they go?
>They were evacuated to the East
Then why have they never returned?
>They fled to the USA/Israel
The numbers don't add up.
>There was no policy to murder all jews
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference

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>>18110964
Leftist are against Israel/Gaza genocide because this is a central aspect of their worldview. Israel, to them, is a Fascist, apartheid, racist, colonial state that oppresses brown "indigenous" people so you are correct on the racial aspect of it. But this is important to point out because clueless chuddies have claimed for fucking years now that leftist are just the same side as zionist, or that communism is jewish and the other side of the coin of zionism. But reality is that the far left has always opposed Israel since its inception. Even the early Jewish Communist Bund was anti zionist.

The UN and the world court being against Israel is also important. All of this goes back into the core reason you guys pretend the holocaust never happened. You think the holocaust set the president to let Israel exist AND do whatever they want. But reality is smacking you guys in the face because the exact same post WW2/holocaust international laws are being applied against Israel.

Israel is a "boogeyman" (this isnt me saying I support Israel/saying Israel dindu nuffin) and you think if you can prove the holocaust was fake, the boogeyman goes away.

>>18110982
>Leftists see Israel as a white supremacist state
That's Jewish Noam Chomsky crap that has only hurt the Palestinian cause and some are starting to wise up to that. Many Palestinians say the problem is Jewish supremacy and has nothing to do with white people.

>>18110996
Muslims failed to "get" Israel because they're militarily incompetent

>>18111005
Antifa, BLM, pretty much anyone left of center sees Israel as a specifically racist white state. Reminder that these people believe that only white people can be racist.

>>18111007
get nukes dumbass

>>18110997
Not exactly. Islam is a geopolitical sphere of influence and the left, being communists, which are anti western imperialists, want them to fuck up the US. It's politically convenient they can spin a victimhood narrative.

>>18110999
>6 million Jews disappeared from Europe during WW2, where did they go?
by that logic everyone who died in WW2 was a victim of the holocaust

>>18111015
or maybe jews like open societies when it's not ran by them

>>18111021
The majority of Jews killed were civilians, as a result of deliberate German policy, i.e. genocide.

>>18111026
We'll see the western imperialists take the communist words to heart and have spent the last 80 years trying to become as communist as possible

>>18111015
Communism is also about skin color. Look at Zohran Mamdani in NYC, his entire game is to redistribute from whites to browns. This on a global scale is third-worldism, which communists subscribe to.
Ofc this wasn't what communism was about in 1917, but in the 21st century politics is about skin color.
The right wing is also about skin color. For example Hanania is 100% right in that Indians are hated because they have brown skin.
https://www.richardhanania.com/p/indians-are-hated-because-they-are

>>18111042
Communists know their ideology doesn't appeal to American whites which are dyed in the wool liberals, so they target the minorities in the US instead. I think stranding half the black population in northern ghettos was a long con in order to ensure they had political power long after their policies fell out of favor

>>18111028
>majority of Jews killed were civilians
that is the case for everyone
>as a result of deliberate German policy
is there proof of this? don't say "resettlement" means genocide

>>18111042
Vance is married to an Indian and Trump is backing Vivek for governor of Ohio (who Vance named his son after)

>>18111072
Republicans are cashing in on civic nationalist communism but I don't buy it. I only support trump because he's basically the detente president of our generation

>>18111062
>that is the case for everyone
Not at all. Why weren't there cases of genocide in France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Luxembourg, etc? The Nazis specifically targeted groups like Jews and East Slavs.
is there proof of this?
See the Wannsee Conference posted before.
>don't say "resettlement" means genocide
Where were the jews 'resettled' according to you? They were forced into ghettos before being deported to the camps.

>>18111072
Yes, and? Everyone knows Trump is an avatar for white interests in America, despite the presence of some browns in his circle.

>>18111089
Funny how white interests just means let's not collapse into a third world shithole. Meanwhile Democrats are rooting secessionist horns over goddamn spics of all things

>>18111098
Tooting*

>>18111083
according to the UN 90% of wartime casualties are civilians
both sides openly targeted civilians, that's well known... bombing at night, destroying dams and drowning forced laborers

>>18111119
Wouldn't indiscriminate city bombing be actual mechanized genocide

>>18111119
Then, can you cite which bombings and destroyed dams were responsible for so many Jewish deaths?

>>18111089
>Everyone knows Trump is an avatar for white interests in America
It's just wishful thinking at this point. Trump is basically dead and a fat race mixer will take his place

>>18111119
>all these concentration camps and ghettos will surely advance our war effort!

>>18111123
>Wouldn't indiscriminate city bombing be actual mechanized genocide
Yeah but they aren't jewish so who fucking cares, deny it all you want nothing will happen to you

>>18111123
Nazis did that to Warsaw

>>18111132
uh yeah, work camps helped the war effort. do chuds really think they would just kill all their laborers while they were at war with the whole world?

>>18111143
Right, then they deported them because they couldn't live there any longer

>>18111127
uh all of them?

>>18111151
Proof? Most of the Jews were deported to camps which were never bombed, or disappeared in areas which wasn't subjected to bombing for most of the war.

>>18111132
Nazis did things contrary and counterproductive to winning the war all the time, like Hitler's autism with wanting to destroy major cities in Eastern Europe and kill the inhabitants with hunger instead of capturing them and using them for the German war effort, building German settlements in Western Ukraine and expelling the Ukrainians when they wanted to get them on their side, or brutal apartheid occupation policies that just resulted in more support for the partisans, anti-partisan warfare that involved killing entire villages of civilians if there was partisan activity in the area. They weren't hyper-rationally focused on winning the war, the Nazi elite like Hitler, Himmler, Heydrich were mostly mentally ill violent sociopaths.

>>18111130
I'm not saying white interests are being well safeguarded in America (which is almost Brazil at this point), just that he represents them

>>18111150
>deported
What are you talking about man, instead of surrendering the city which was the logical next thing to do they just bombed the hell out of it and sent in death squads to commit atrocities. I'm talking about 1944.

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>>18110173
>well can you prove that my magical unicorns don't live in the moon?
the utter state of holocaust propagandists in the current year

>>18111161
so literally no jews died from bombing or the result of bombing? sounds like they lived a pretty good life during the war

>>18110173
Of course the holocaust is real. All the evidence we have for a systematic gassing and murdering of the jews comes from the Russian Government and the Russians have never lied about nazis ever

>>18111183
oh im talking about the holocaust

>>18111193
Instead of getting bombed in cities they get deported to camps to be gassed by the SS (which is a genocide). Unless you're arguing that Hitler allowed them to 'live a pretty good life' while the rest of his country and people were getting bombed and shot, which would make him a traitor to his people.

>>18111212
Is there any proof of that actually happening? The evidence shows the opposite, people were being moved around the "death" camps as they dealt with disease

>>18111212
Why would they gas them if they were already shooting jewish guerillas?

>>18111274
>guerillas
Pathetic attempt to justify atrocities. The Soviets did the same thing to justify their crimes against innocent Germans. Will you also believe their claims that all Germans were Werwolf partisans?

>>18111186
Well yes if Jews exagerrated the nature of atrocities done against them on a large orgnanised scale there would be some evidence of this being planned.

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Why would Auschwitz a simple work camp or whatever need 5 dedicated cremation buildings each with their own underground morgue and over 50 oven muffles. And 4 of these were built at the camp after typhus was no longer epidemic and was under control, and then for some reason outfitted each of the morgues with holes in the ceiling visible on aerial photography that Holocaust deniers said didn't exist which disproved the Holocaust. In addition to burning bodies outside as aerial and ground photographs of the sonderkommando show outside of crema 5. And then why did someone from the SS write to the company that manufactured the ovens that the ability for all 5 of these buildings to cremate 80,000 bodies a month wasn't enough and they needed even more capacity for cremation? And then when they were losing they destroyed the crematoria 2, 3, 4, and 5 with explosives but decades later the ruins tested positive for cyanide by a Holocaust denier Fred Leuchter who sent in stolen samples of brick from Auschwitz to a chemistry lab expecting no cyanide because there wasn't Prussian Blue staining. And then the premier Holocaust denier in the world Germar Rudolf admitted the ruins of the crematoria had elevated cyanide while the rest of the camp had none but said the crema must have been used as an ad-hoc delousing chamber at some point.

Isn't that just crazy?

>>18111328
Then why would they send sick people from Auschwitz to other camps?
The only evidence you have given is circumstantial.

>>18111286
What would you call people illegally waging partisan warfare and committing terrorism? guerillas without uniforms are illegal

>>18111303
why is it not enough to just prove it's exaggerated? why does it have to be a super duper big secret plan?
it's like asking why you would exaggerate an injury you had at work

>>18111021
We can account for the deaths during WW2 as being combatants who died in battle, or civilians killed in collateral damage, or civilians killed in deliberate murders of them ect.

by what metric would we use to account for 6 million European jews?

>>18111346
A Werwolf guerrilla according to the Soviets, therefore it was okay to kill all Germans.

>>18111358
>by what metric would we use to account for 6 million European jews?
Holobunga or jail

>>18111355
Because that's between you and your boss and not millions of people. Presumably if it was just a few Jews exaggerating the truth would out quickly and become standard history.

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>>18111339
>>18111328
Its almost as if the Nazis designed Auschwitz in a way to prepare for a large number of deaths and a method to dispose of millions of bodies

>>18111371
except it is ww2 and your job is to destroy germany and its reputation by any means necessary, who the fuck is going to stand up to the mob and say "erm yeah they were bad but this is too far!"

When I was going through my /pol/ edgy teenager phase I used to be a typical uneducated Holocaust denier in that I really didn't know the actual story but saw the bear and eagle, wooden door, electrocution floors, shrunken heads memes and thought it sounded ridiculous. I wanted to become a serious Holocaust skeptic and found the Holocaust denier elite (who at least have a long enough attention span to read books) on CODOH/RODOH and who wrote the Holocaust handbooks.

After a while, I found all the denier arguments to be pretty stupid or lacking in substance, and Holocaust Controversies articles much more convincing and with the relevant facts on their side. The Eric Hunt article where he announced he was leaving denial was sort of the last straw for me. Personally I think that if you look at the available evidence you have to be dumb, insane, refuse to believe something demonstrably true almost religiously, or believe it happened but you just see lying that it didn't as part of the political struggle to rehabilitate Nazis and Hitler or whatever.

>>18111414
I'm just glad they made it illegal to question the holocaust. Now we don't have to argue with them, we can just put them in prison.

>>18111363
Killing an invading army is usually encouraged

>>18111427
So it was okay for the Soviets to kill all the Germans?

>>18111430
The invading ones? I suppose that's the point

>>18110173
It's not that it was fake. It's just overblown and it also happened to plenty of other people, not just jews. To make it worse, jews have done the same to others for racial reasons plenty of times.

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>>18110173

>>18111346
>illegally waging partisan warfare
Is there a way to wage partisan warfare legally? I'd like to know

Damn, IDF rookies working overtime in this thread

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>>18110215
They love punching down
>Far right
and subverting

>>18111449
Yeah you wear a uniform so they can ice you

>>18111480
I don't see the difference

>>18111502
Basically if you're identifying yourself as an enemy force then by the rules of war you can do whatever you want, because you're free game to the other force, identifiable at a distance. Illegal guerilla warfare is done by plain-clothed often terrorist types. They hit bridges, mine roads and hide in plain sight.

>>18110956
>Jews DONT control every politician, bank and form of media
Phew!

>>18110287
How the holocaust was made ;

https://armreg.co.uk/author/carlo-mattogno/

https://armreg.co.uk/product/the-making-of-the-auschwitz-myth-auschwitz-in-british-intercepts-polish-underground-reports-and-postwar-testimonies-1941-1947-on-the-genesis-and-development-of-the-gas-chamber-lore/

The Real case for Auschwitz

https://armreg.co.uk/product/the-real-case-for-auschwitz-robert-van-pelts-evidence-from-the-irving-trial-critically-reviewed/

People are not immune to poison gas. People are not immune to water. Or air. Under certain conditions.

In the real cae, mattogno examines the only actual technical account of how this alleged crime was done by Pressac; who states that while there is no direct evidence of mass murder there are instead numerous "criminal traces". On examination each of these are found to be distinctly not the case.

The Holocaust itself, is the allegation of mass murder - thus the burden of proof is on those who made and now support that allegation.

>>18111395
Cremation propaganda examined;

https://nukebook.org/manipulation/cremation-propaganda/1743/

The SS did invest in extra capacity, because they had a large rate of deaths at first as they tried to improve the camp. Cremation was a health measure and so had to be invested in. The SS invested greatly in hygiene in these camps.

>>18112536
i didn't ask for neonazi site link spam, I just wanted to know why it is impossible to kill people with poison gas

>>18112553
>presumes it was

Germar doesnt claim its not possible. You can kill a human with enough of anything. It just takes a shit ton therefore it didnt happen.

You not reading the actual research is not anyone's problem but yours.

>>18112558
How long you can breath poison gas before you die?

>>18112564
Depends how much. In actual gas executions in a steel chamber two blocks of HCN are dumped into two buckets of sulphuric acid sending a gas cloud up. Death for one person is about 10 minutes - which isnt the alleged holocaust therefore its debunked.

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>sergant chud! the blacks deployed gas weapons! quick, get your gasmask!
>heh, just another jewish psyop, don't you know that it takes a shit ton of gas to kill somebody?
and this is how /pol/cels lost the race war of 2040

>>18112568
>sargeant chud they delivered pesticide into our bunker!
>uuuh, pesticide?

lmao

>>18112571
>using a poison to kill people
yo that's some outrageous stuff

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>>18112568
*oberführer chud

>>18112574
>poison
water is a poison in the right amounts

>>18112575
>Capitalist aluminium and petrol in the tanks

cringe commies lol

>>18112578
>all natural resources belongs to my rich masters!!
holy slave mentality

>>18112576
And what amount of cyanide is poisonous to humans?

>>18112579
>We are superior, we are strong, we hate fascists, especially those Nazis. We can just fuck with them
>Oh shit! help us capitalists!

kek

>>>18112580
>And what amount of cyanide is poisonous to humans?

Define poisonous

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>>18112579
germans are cattle-like beings, they will commit the worst atrocities just because they have to follow orders

>>18112585
>dont kill my heckin partisans! Nooooo!

kek

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>>18112581
>We are superior, we are strong
correct ma'am

>>18112583
how much gas do a german need to murder a weak starved Jewish women and children

>>18112589
See
>>18112567

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>>18112586
>the women and children are all dangerous partistans we have to kill them!!
starting to suspect that nazis weren't the good guys

>>18112591
>Literally tried to save Ann Frank. Gave jews healthcare and released a few from "death camp Auschwitz".

>>18112590
yeah, i think it was about 10 to 20 minutes before all Jews inside the gas chambers were murdered, everything seems fine then

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>>18111042
>his entire game is to redistribute from whites to browns.
Good thing that Trump won, redistributing everything to those that already can't put a dent in what they already have, unless they pick up a hobby at the level of manned space exploration.

>>18112597
>Yeah nah, these werent even gas chambers and even the first gassing was examined and found to be bullshit.

>>18112600
In early 1942, the Nazis began using Zyklon B as the preferred killing tool in extermination camps during the Holocaust. They used it to murder roughly 1.1 million people in gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau, Majdanek, and elsewhere. Zyklon B was preferred because it was assumed to be a "humane" killing method, with the Nazis priding themselves as "civilized killers".

>>18112602
>>18112602
https://codoh.com/library/document/the-ventilation-systems-of-crematoria-ii-and-iii/

The logical consequence to be taken from all that has been considered above is that “gassings” of 1,500 or even of 1,000 or even of some hundreds of persons never took place.

>>18112608
Most of the victims were Jews, and by far the majority of murders using this method took place at Auschwitz.Distributor Heli supplied Zyklon B to Mauthausen, Dachau, and Buchenwald, and Testa supplied it to Auschwitz and Majdanek; camps also occasionally bought it directly from the manufacturers. Some 56 tonnes of the 729 tonnes sold in Germany in 1942–44 were sold to concentration camps, amounting to about 8 percent of domestic sales. Auschwitz received 23.8 tonnes, of which 6 tonnes were used for fumigation.

>>18112609
These orthodox historians attempt to demonstrate a horrifying mass
murder carried out in chemical slaughterhouses in spite of the total lack of
documentary proof and, for many camps, even the lack of any circumstantial evidence.

https://holocausthandbooks.com/book/inside-the-gas-chambers/

>>18112614
Rudolf Höss, commandant of Auschwitz, said that the use of Zyklon-B to murder prisoners came about on the initiative of one of his subordinates, SS-Hauptsturmführer (captain) Karl Fritzsch, who had used it to murder some Russian POWs in late August 1941 in the basement of Block 11 in the main camp. They repeated the experiment on more Russian POWs in September, with Höss watching.Block 11 proved unsuitable, as the basement was difficult to air out afterwards and the crematorium (Crematorium I, which operated until July 1942) was some distance away. The site of the murders was moved to Crematorium I, where more than 700 victims could be murdered at once. By the middle of 1942, the operation was moved to Auschwitz II–Birkenau, a nearby satellite camp that had been under construction since October 1941.

>>18112615
The “solution of the Jewish question” thus required no extermination or cremation facilities, but instead construction measures to accommodate 100,000 prisoners. The supposed homicidal function of the camp was not only no priority, it was utterly absent from Höss’s speech.

https://nukebook.org/witness/perpetrator/hoss-rudolf/360/

>>18112618
The first gas chamber at Auschwitz II–Birkenau was the "red house" (called Bunker 1 by SS staff), a brick cottage converted to a gassing facility by tearing out the inside and bricking up the windows. It was operational by March 1942. A second brick cottage, called the "white house" or Bunker 2, was converted some weeks later. According to Höss, Bunker 1 held 800 victims and Bunker 2 held 1,200 victims.These structures were in use for mass murder until early 1943. At that point, the Nazis decided to greatly increase the gassing capacity of Birkenau. Crematorium II was originally designed as a mortuary with morgues in the basement and ground-level incinerators; they converted it into a killing factory by installing gas-tight doors, vents for the Zyklon B to be dropped into the chamber, and ventilation equipment to remove the gas afterwards. Crematorium III was built using the same design. Crematoria IV and V, designed from the beginning as gas chambers, were also constructed that spring. By June 1943, all four crematoria were operational. Most of the victims were murdered using these four structures.

The first gassing of human beings in Auschwitz is claimed to have occurred on Sept. 3, 1941. The accounts reporting it are the archetypes for all later gassing accounts. This study exhibits the sources about this alleged event and analyzes them critically. It shows that these sources contradict each other in every essential point, rendering it impossible to extract a consistent story. Original wartime documents inflict a final blow to the tale of the first homicidal gassing

https://armreg.co.uk/product/auschwitz-the-first-gassing-rumor-and-reality/

Over and over it becomes clear that their claims are in part utterly unfounded or are frequently based on the distorted and disfigured use of sources. Based on his unparalleled knowledge of the source material, Mattogno aptly reduces the theses of the court historians to absurdity. This book summarizes the arguments for and against every single gas chamber claim made for any of the German wartime camps

https://holocausthandbooks.com/book/inside-the-gas-chambers/

Nazi gas chambers are the iconic core of the Holocaust narrative. Millions of Jews were killed in them with poison gas, we are told. However, if we dig deeper, we find early accounts that tell a different story: steam, vacuum and electrocution chambers, murder with chlorinated lime in trains, or with toxic fluids. How did we get from these bizarre claims to what we are told today? This book reveals who cleansed the historical record to create an apparently consistent and coherent narrative, and which methods were used in the process. Those looking for evidence of a huge Jewish conspiracy, however, will be disappointed, because that’s not how it happened. Instead, the details of the conventional gas-chamber story were defined and documented by… well, read the book and find out!

https://armreg.co.uk/product/nazi-gas-chambers/

Mattogno also exposes the fraudulent attempts of mainstream historians to convert the witnesses’ black propaganda into “truth” by means of selective quotes, omissions and distortions.

Finally, Mattogno shows with forensic methods – by investigating the current state of this morgue as presented to tourists today – that this crematory’s morgue has never been anything different than what it was meant to be: a morgue.

https://holocausthandbooks.com/book/auschwitz-crematorium-i/

The Nazis began shipping large numbers of Jews from all over Europe to Auschwitz in the middle of 1942. Those who were not selected for work crews were immediately gassed. Those selected to die generally comprised about three-quarters of the total and included almost all children, women with small children, all the elderly, and all those who appeared on brief and superficial inspection by an SS doctor not to be completely fit. The victims were told that they were to undergo delousing and a shower. They were stripped of their belongings and herded into the gas chamber.

>>18112625
>Those looking for evidence of a huge Jewish conspiracy, however, will be disappointed, because that’s not how it happened. Instead, the details of the conventional gas-chamber story were defined and documented by… well, read the book and find out!

I bet he just blames the Jews anyway

>>18113034
Germar Rudolf blames the Polish resistance for the initial story and thinks that Zionists and the USSR opportunistically ran with the story

>>18113140
Yes, pretty much and it's undeniable given who actually made all these claims.

>>18112693
No immediate gassing ever took place. As can be seen in the available photos of the arrival of Jewish women and children. As well as the document record and the forensic evidence.

>>18112598
Are you denying everything is about skin color or not?

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>>18110624
Only topically are they supported by right. Also “communist” supported Palestine after the war because Jews were all purged from central and Eastern Europe and the people there unironically didn’t like them regardless of what ideology their government was. Stalin purged the Jews after the Doctors Plot and Jews didn’t have a foothold in Socialist Europe until after the Soviet Union fell and the wall came downs

>>18113423
A special SS bureau known as the Hygienic Institute delivered the Zyklon B to the crematoria by ambulance. The actual delivery of the gas to the victims was always handled by the SS, on the order of the supervising SS doctor.After the doors were shut, SS men dropped Zyklon B pellets through vents in the roof or holes in the side of the chamber. The victims were dead within 20 minutes. Johann Kremer, an SS doctor who oversaw gassings, testified that the "shouting and screaming of the victims could be heard through the opening and it was clear that they fought for their lives".

>>18113477
Sonderkommandos (special work crews forced to work at the gas chambers) wearing gas masks then dragged the bodies from the chamber. The victims' glasses, artificial limbs, jewelry, and hair were removed, and any dental work was extracted so the gold could be melted down. If the gas chamber was crowded, which they typically were, the corpses were found half-squatting, their skin discolored pink with red and green spots, with some foaming at the mouth or bleeding from their ears. The corpses were burned in the nearby incinerators, and the ashes were buried, thrown in the river, or used as fertilizer. With the Soviet Red Army approaching through Poland, the last mass gassing at Auschwitz took place on 30 October 1944. In November 1944, Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler, head of the SS, ordered gassing operations to cease throughout Nazi Germany.

>>18113477
"About his time at the Auschwitz-Birkenau Camp, he stated in that affidavit (ibid., p. 731):

“No prisoners were flogged; there were no executions, shootings or hangings in my part. […] During my inspections I never saw prisoners who had died through physical violence. […] All efforts were made by these doctors to keep the prisoners alive. Medical supplies and invigorating drugs were applied. […] It was never reported to me that prisoners had to be treated for dog bites. […]

I have heard of the allegations of former prisoners in Auschwitz referring to a gas chamber there, the mass executions and whippings, the cruelty of the guards employed, and that all this took place either in my presence or with my knowledge. All I can say to all this is that it is untrue from beginning to end.”

Then Kramer underwent, for weeks on end, the kind oftorturethat almost all SS prisoners in British custody had to endure.

https://nukebook.org/witness/perpetrator/kramer-josef/629/

>>18113482
>source: I made it up.

>>18113498
Holocaust deniers claim that Zyklon B gas was not used in the gas chambers, relying for evidence on the discredited research of Fred A. Leuchter, who found low levels of Prussian blue in samples of the gas chamber walls and ceilings. Leuchter attributed its presence to the general delousing of the buildings. Leuchter's negative control, a sample of gasket material taken from a different camp building, had no cyanide residue. In 1999, James Roth, the chemist who had analyzed Leuchter's samples, stated that the test was flawed because the material that was sent for testing included large chunks, and the chemical would only be within 10 microns of the surface. The surface that had been exposed to the chemical was not identified, and the large size of the specimens meant that any chemical present was diluted by an undeterminable amount. In 1994, the Institute for Forensic Research in Kraków re-examined Leuchter's claim, stating that formation of Prussian blue by exposure of bricks to cyanide is not a highly probable reaction. Using microdiffusion techniques, they tested 22 samples from the gas chambers and delousing chambers (as positive controls) and living quarters (as negative controls). They found cyanide residue in both the delousing chambers and the gas chambers, but none in the living quarters.

>>18113503
Holocaust denial is the negationist and antisemitic claim that Nazi Germany and its collaborators did not commit genocide against European Jews during World War II, ignoring overwhelming historical evidence to the contrary. Theories assert that the genocide of Jews is a fabrication or exaggeration. Holocaust denial includes making one or more of the following false claims: that Nazi Germany's "Final Solution" was aimed only at deporting Jews from the territory of the Third Reich and did not include their extermination; that Nazi authorities did not use extermination camps and gas chambers for the mass murder of Jews; that the actual number of Jews murdered is significantly lower than the accepted figure of approximately six million; and that the Holocaust is a hoax perpetrated by the Allies, Jews, or the Soviet Union.

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>>18113477
>>18113482
This is some nightmare stuff
we must never forget what is always the end stage for racism and hatred

Wouldn't bullets or a machete right in front of a mass grave be cheaper and safer? Train parks up, they're marched to an open grave, have their throats slit or are shot in the head, and are tossed right in. A dozen dirglewanger tier psychopaths with machetes could get through thousands a day.

I just never understood the use for gas. You have to build the chambers, transport the gas, handle the gas, pick up and carry out the dead bodies afterwards. It seems logistically so much more expensive.

I never brought the whole "Oh they couldn't handle what they were doing psychologically". Bullshit, one in 100 people is a psychopath that would have no remorse personally slitting throats. You could just pull your average druggie psycho off a slaughterhouse production line, pay him three times more, and he'd rack up thousands of dead bodies every week.

>prove the negative
Basic logic failure.

>>18113423
No Jew has ever died

>>18113542
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-97999-1_8
>>18113553
they all had godmode

>>18110173
True or not, why the fuck should I care?

>>18110189
>>18110304
>a single guy
it was their entire media network and their government and military officials.
Why should we believe these people at all? If they are willing to lie about this, about Gaza, all for political gain, why wouldnt we expect them to lie about the holocaust for political gain?

Explain to me in the affirmative as to why we should take the word of the jews at face value?
Why should we believe the holocaust stories that lack hard material evidence?

>>18110254
>not people doing the stupid wooden door, bear and eagle, etc stuff)
These are legitimate objections to the holocaust which have been raised by historians, academics, and independent researchers.
>they dont actually have an alternate historiography
N O P E

They do.
Its this
>jews were overrepresented among partisans
>jews were rounded up en masse as a security risk and placed into ad hoc prison camps
>the blockade, bombings, and supply strain lead to mass malnutrition, disease, and mass casualty events due to shortage of everything
>anxiety and hysteria lead to fantastical stories of industrial genocide (jews claim Hamas is attempting to genocide them btw, equally as laughable)
>collateral damage, jews in hiding, and deaths in camps lead to a massive decline in the jewish population in Europe

This is the alternative explanation and it requires far fewer assumptions and better explains the evidence.
>massacre's happened
Sure, but these were low level crimes of passion, not top down state policy initiatives.
We also know the Germans recorded everyone they killed, and yeah its ugly and terrible they machine gunned 250,000 alleged civilians, but this is a far cry from the screeches of 6 million and these massacre's were done in response to partisan activity.

The holocaust is simply unsubstantiated by the evidence, it lacks predictive power, and we have better explanations.

>>18113505
>>18113509
Is there any hard evidence anyone ever died in a gas chamber in Germany ever?

Its such a silly thing to defend, wouldnt it just be easier to say no they werent used for killing but this doesnt mean the holocaust ddint happen or that the nazis werent responsible for the deaths of jews in Axis territory?
Why die on the hill of gas chambers?

>>18113542
>I never brought the whole "Oh they couldn't handle what they were doing psychologically"
You're a thirdie

>>18113505
James Roth was exposed by Germar Rudolf and Leuchter's amateur work was corrected by Rudolf. No counter worn has ever been done. Dr Richard Green wrote a letter or two of complete ignorance and went silent.

>>18113509
What does negationist mean?

Saying no?

>>18114739
>>18115511
>>18115513
The methodologies of Holocaust deniers are based on a predetermined conclusion that ignores historical evidence. Scholars use the term denial to describe the views and methodology of Holocaust deniers in order to distinguish them from legitimate historical revisionists, who challenge orthodox interpretations of history using established historical methodologies.

Holocaust deniers prefer to refer to their work as historical revisionism, and object to being referred to as "deniers". Emory University professor Deborah Lipstadt has written that: "The deniers' selection of the name revisionist to describe themselves is indicative of their basic strategy of deceit and distortion and of their attempt to portray themselves as legitimate historians engaged in the traditional practice of illuminating the past."

In contrast, the Holocaust denial movement bases its approach on the predetermined idea that the Holocaust, as understood by mainstream historiography, did not occur. Sometimes referred to as "negationism", from the French term négationnisme introduced by Henry Rousso, Holocaust deniers attempt to rewrite history by minimizing, denying, or simply ignoring essential facts. Koenraad Elst writes:

Negationism means the denial of historical crimes against humanity. It is not a reinterpretation of known facts, but the denial of known facts. The term negationism has gained currency as the name of a movement to deny a specific crime against humanity, the Nazi genocide on the Jews in 1941–45, also known as the Holocaust (Greek: complete burning) or the Shoah (Hebrew: disaster). Negationism is mostly identified with the effort at re-writing history in such a way that the fact of the Holocaust is omitted.

>>18114739
>it's silly because...BECAUSE IT JUST IS OK!

>>18110393
I feel really bad that I think this shot composition is kino beyond belief
I know I shouldn't make light of it, but the tracks leading into the arch and the symmetry really is something special

>>18115517
Ok, do you have an example of this?

Or maybe a source for any of this?

Ive heard that in fact holocaust is full of holes and no one defends it they just stay silent.

>>18115527
What's special about it? I like photography art too.

>>18115519
Is this sort of thing normal?

>>18114739
Because it's well documented and they definitely existed? I don't even understand this reasoning. The chambers existed, everyone involved claimed that people were murdered there. Should we just ignore their existence? Existence of things we have aerial photos of and tons of documents?

>>18114729
Except everything you just wrote is nonsense. We have evidence that the Nazis emptied the ghettos and deported the Jews to the East. Then they arrived to Operation Reinhard camps.
Then deniers claim they were deported to unspecified location because those were transit camps. They have precisely ZERO evidence it happened. There are no further documents mentioning those Jews, Germans basically started treating them as non-existent.

Meanwhile deniers claim that the Germans just left them somewhere. 2 million Polish Jews. Jews that were supposedly always responsible for sabotage and subversion. The Germans simply released them behind their own front lines while before they considered every ghetto Jew a potential threat.

Your alternative explanation is literally based on your fantasy, not of what actually happen. The question is what happened with deported Jews, where were they supposedly deported and resettled. Concentration camps are completely irrelevant here because concentration camps were not Operation Reinhard camps.

>>18115572
Can we see one of these gas chambers?

Was this a normal thing for the time and did they do this sort thing after too somewhere?


Do you mean that the germans were supposed to take them west closer to Berlin instead? I don't get it.

>>18115564
No, mass murdering civilians as part of your autistic racial science programme is not normal.

>>18115585
Seems pretty weird that germans would do that. Even the most racist Europeans of the time or in the 19th century didn't massacre enemies like that. Sounds like a stupid story somebody made up.

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321 KB JPG

>>18115583
Yes, you can look at the aerial photos and see crematoria and gas chambers. A new high quality ones were released not so long ago. Most of the retarded denier claims ignore them, or just call them fakes, lol, because suddenly everything is pretty well visible, from openings in the roofs of the chambers to smoking outside pits.
Things that supposedly didn't exist.

>>18115587
This photo has no gas chambers. Can we see a gas chamber? Ive seen one from the 50s I think, are they like that?

>>18115593
Obviously not. Why do you think a gas chamber for mass gassing would look like 1950s gas chamber for I'm guessing gassing criminals?

>>18115586
>Even the most racist Europeans of the time or in the 19th century didn't massacre enemies like that
???

>>18115561
There are a wide variety of motivations for denying the Holocaust, which can include antisemitism, German nationalism, and sympathy for National Socialism. Enzo Traverso argues that instrumentalization of the Holocaust could lead to Holocaust denial: "many will come to believe that the Holocaust is a myth invented to defend the interests of Israel and its allies".
Although some have argued that Holocaust denial is rising over time, other evidence indicates that it remains a fringe belief.

Lawrence Douglas argues that denial was invented by the perpetrators and employed as a means of genocide. For example, trucks of Zyklon B were labeled with Red Cross symbols and victims were told that they would be "resettled". Douglas also cites the Posen speeches as an example of denial while genocide was ongoing, with Himmler referring to the Holocaust as "an unnamed and never to be named page of glory". According to Douglas, the denial of mass murder using gas chambers recalls the Nazi efforts to persuade the victims that they were actually harmless showers.

>>18115604
Because that's what gas chambers look like?

Are these ones even better variations? Explain it to me. Do they have large windows and seating for audiences too?

>>18115608
I did European imperialism in college. They didn't do that shit. The British even banned human cremation of dead Indians wives. And the germans were even nicer than that. So this is a really far out claim.

>>18115618
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history_(1490_to_1914)

>>18115611
Instrumentalising the holocaust? The gas chambers are the instruments they're supposed to be right?

Aren't we allowed to talk about the instruments? It looks like these instruments were never really a thing in European history and they didn't use them against the varied tribes in Africa or India. Mayne it was an American thing.

>>18115623
In 1945, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander, anticipated that someday an attempt would be made to recharacterize the documentation of Nazi crimes as propaganda and took steps against it. Eisenhower, upon finding the victims of Nazi concentration camps, ordered all possible photographs to be taken, and for the German people from surrounding villages to be ushered through the camps and made to bury the dead.

>>18115621
Right and in all that there's no gas chambers. My lecturer never mentioned it either. It's just not a thing.

>>18115618
You're dishonest. You wanted me to show you aerial photos with gas chambers, I showed them to you. They are pretty much exactly as described by people involved in extermination at Auschwitz. Openings in roofs, cremations pits outside of Krema V.

Before the end of the war the Nazis demolished all those buildings. Why? How is this not suspicious to you?
People accuse you of genociding Jews, but you're innocent? What do you do? Try to clean your name or destroy all the innocent camps and buildings where supposedly nothing bad happened?
What was so bad about those morgues that they decided to level them all to the ground before anyone could find them?

>>18115625
Did you get a hold of any of these photographs he wanted taken?

Got anyone getting gassed im a gas chamber in them?

>>18115627
I only asked for a gas chamber, not some far off aerial photography were you can't see anyone. Im not dishonest. Do you have these gas chambers? No one took any pictures before they were demolished?

You mean every gas chamber was demolished? That's impressive are you sure they took done every one of them all once and none survived so I can't see a picture of one?

>>18115626
>starving, shooting, smashing skulls with rocks, cutting off limbs, burning alive, scalping children, raping entire cities? perfectly fine, normal human behaviour
>using A POISON GAS TO KILL??? THIS IS COMPLETLY OUTRAGEOUS AND UNREALISTIC, HUMANS ARE NOT EVIL AS THAT
are you 80 iq?

>>18115628
The Nuremberg trials took place in Germany after the war in 1945–1946. The stated aim was to dispense justice in retribution for atrocities of the German government. This Allied intention to administer justice post-war was first announced in 1943 in the Declaration on German Atrocities in Occupied Europe and reiterated at the Yalta Conference and at Berlin in 1945. While the intention was not specifically to preserve the historical record of the Holocaust, some of the core documents required to prosecute the cases were provided to them by the CDJC, and much of the huge trove of archives were then transferred to the CDJC after the trials and became the core of future Holocaust historiography.

The Nuremberg trials were important historically, but the events were still very recent, television was in its infancy and not present, and there was little public impact. There were isolated moments of limited public awareness from Hollywood films such as The Diary of Anne Frank (1959) or the 1961 Judgment at Nuremberg which had some newsreel footage of actual scenes from liberated Nazi concentration camps including scenes of piles of naked corpses laid out in rows and bulldozed into large pits, which was considered exceptionally graphic for the time.

>>18115644
Dude gassing people like that is like industrial scale murder done day after day minute by minute. That's not something Europeans did even in their empires in fact their whole deal was bringing "civilisation" to warring tribes and stuff.

Mass gassing wasn't something they ever did. They'd go on patrols on hang people that's about it. No gassing that's a stupid idea.

I did hear about it the Bolsheviks gassing the forests during the Russian civil war though but that's the only thing. So it's got to be just a story there's too many problems with it.

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715 KB JPG

>>18115636
>You mean every gas chamber was demolished?
Yes, in Birkenau all of them were demolished. The one that survived was in Auschwitz I. It was converted into an air-raid bunker in 1943. But the Auschwitz I crematorium was small and inefficient, it was used before they built the 4 big ones in Birkenau and not that many people died there.
This photo was made one month before liberation.

>No one took any pictures before they were demolished?
Why would anyone be allowed to make such photos?

>>18115646
Right so even with a big trial and movies there was no photographs of these gas chambers. Like I said.

>>18115653
>The Circassian genocide, or Tsitsekun, was the systematic mass killing, ethnic cleansing, and forced displacement of between 95% and 97 of the Circassian people during the final stages of the Russian invasion of Circassia in the 19th century.] It resulted in the deaths of between 1,000,000 and 1.5 million and the destruction of Circassia, which was then annexed by the Russian Empire.

>>18115657
Public awareness changed when the Eichmann trial riveted the world's attention fifteen years after Nuremberg.

In 1961, the Israeli government captured Adolf Eichmann in Argentina and brought him to Israel to stand trial for war crimes. Chief prosecutor Gideon Hausner's intentions were not only to demonstrate Eichmann's guilt personally but to present material about the entire Holocaust, thus producing a comprehensive record.

The Israeli government arranged for the trial to have prominent media coverage. Many major newspapers from all over the globe sent reporters and published front-page coverage of the story. Israelis had the opportunity to watch live television broadcasts of the proceedings, and videotape was flown daily to the United States for broadcast the following day.

>>18115654
So there's not even a photo of the Auschwitz one gas chamber and every gas chamber that the nazis had has disappeared like it never existed?

Don't you think that's weird?

Was gassing a big industry at the time? Did they have special gassing technical chemists or specialists developing the thing in the 20s?

>>18115660
Right and even with all that. No gassing?

>>18115665
Again, an even bigger trial on TV worldwide and still no gassing photos.

>>18115670
In the immediate aftermath of the war, before the Allied forces had fully documented the extent of the Holocaust, many people reacted with disbelief and even denied the first reports of what had happened. Compounding this disbelief was the memory of forged newspaper accounts of the German Corpse Factory, an anti-German atrocity propaganda campaign during WWI, which was widely known to be false by 1945.

During the 1930s, the Nazi government used this propaganda against the British, claiming allegations of concentration camps were malicious lies put forward by the British government, and historians Joachim Neander and Randal Marlin note that this story "encouraged later disbelief when early reports circulated about the Holocaust under Hitler". Victor Cavendish-Bentinck, chairman of the British Joint Intelligence Committee, noted that these reports were similar to "stories of employment of human corpses during the last war for the manufacture of fat which was a grotesque lie"; likewise, The Christian Century commented that "The parallel between this story and the 'corpse factory' atrocity tale of the First World War is too striking to be overlooked."Neander notes that "There can be no doubt that the reported commercial use of the corpses of the murdered Jews undermined the credibility of the news coming from Poland and delayed action that might have rescued many Jewish lives."

>>18115667
Not only did the gas chambers disappear but so did all the bodies.

>>18115667
>>18115679
The Neo-Nazi movement has been revitalized by Holocaust denial. Small but vocal numbers of neo-Nazis realized that recreation of a Hitlerite-style regime may be impossible, but a replica might be produced in the future; the rehabilitation of Nazism, they concluded, required the discrediting of the Holocaust. Neo-fascism has likewise relied upon Holocaust denial as a means of rehabilitation.

>>18115678
So you're saying that the gas chambers were atrocity stories just like this ww2 corpse factory?

>>18115686
As a movement, modern Holocaust denial is associated with historical revisionism based on pseudoscientific evidence and fringe academic networks ncluding intradiegetic pseudoscientific journals,conferences, and professional organizations (e.g. Journal of Historical Review, International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust, Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust).

>>18115680
Do these neo nazis have the photographs of the gas chambers but keep them secret so no one can expose their dark guilt?

>>18115689
Ok cool so who exactly defended the holocaust has chamber theory against these guys?

>>18115690
In countries where outright denial of the Holocaust is illegal, Holocaust denial authors focus "on so-called Allied atrocities against the Germans during and after the war." According to historian Deborah Lipstadt, the concept of "comparable Allied wrongs", such as the expulsion of Germans after World War II and the bombing of Dresden, is at the center of, and a continuously repeated theme of, contemporary Holocaust denial; she calls the phenomenon "immoral equivalencies". In 1977, historian Martin Broszat, in a review of David Irving's book Hitler's War, maintained that the picture of World War II drawn by Irving was done in a such way to imply moral equivalence between the actions of the Axis and Allied states with both sides equally guilty of terrible crimes, leading to Hitler's "fanatical, destructive will to annihilate" being downgraded to being "no longer an exceptional phenomenon"

>>18115695
According to James Najarian, Holocaust deniers working for the Institute for Historical Review are not trained in history and "put out sham scholarly articles in the mock-academic publication, the Journal of Historical Review". They appeal to "our objectivity, our sense of fair play, and our distrust of figurative language". Thus, they rely on facts to grab the readers' attention. These facts, however, are strung by what Najarian calls "fabricated decorum" and are re-interpreted for their use. For example, they pay particular attention to inconsistencies in numbers.

>>18115696
Why would anyone make opinions illegal unless they had something to hide?

>>18115701
Who is james najarian? Does he do debates or a podcast somewhere?

>>18115702
Scholarly response to Holocaust denial can be roughly divided into three categories. Some academics refuse to engage Holocaust deniers or their arguments at all, on grounds that doing so lends them unwarranted legitimacy. The second group of scholars, typified by the American historian Deborah Lipstadt, have tried to raise awareness of the methods and motivations of Holocaust denial without legitimizing the deniers themselves. "We need not waste time or effort answering the deniers' contentions," Lipstadt wrote. "It would be never-ending.... Their commitment is to an ideology and their 'findings' are shaped to support it." A third group, typified by the Nizkor Project, responds to arguments and claims made by Holocaust denial groups by pointing out inaccuracies and errors in their evidence

>>18115701
>they pay particular attention to inconsistencies in numbers.

LMAO

>>18115705
Literary theorist Jean Baudrillard described Holocaust denial as "part of the extermination itself". Holocaust survivor and Nobel Prize winner Elie Wiesel, during a 1999 discussion at the White House in Washington, D.C., called the Holocaust "the most documented tragedy in recorded history. Never before has a tragedy elicited so much witness from the killers, from the victims and even from the bystanders—millions of pieces here in the museum what you have, all other museums, archives in the thousands, in the millions."

>>18115702
Holodomor denial and Armenian Genocide denial are also illegal in some places. Does Ukraine and Armenia have things to hide?

>>18115707
Deborah Lipstadt's 1993 book, Denying the Holocaust, sharply criticized various Holocaust deniers, including British author David Irving, for deliberately misrepresenting evidence to justify their preconceived conclusions. In the book, Lipstadt named Irving as "one of the more dangerous" Holocaust deniers, because he was a published author, and was viewed by some as a legitimate military historian. He was "familiar with historical evidence", she wrote, and "bends it until it conforms with his ideological leanings and political agenda".

>>18115706
>We need not waste time or effort answering the deniers' contentions," Lipstadt wrote

Wtf does that mean? You agree with that?

>>18115716
Critics of Holocaust denial also include members of the Auschwitz SS. Camp physician and SS-Untersturmführer Hans Münch considered the facts of Auschwitz "so firmly determined that one cannot have any doubt at all", and described those who negate what happened at the camp as "malevolent" people who have "personal interest to want to bury in silence things that cannot be buried in silence". Zyklon B handler and SS-Oberscharführer Josef Klehr said that anyone who maintains that nobody was gassed at Auschwitz must be "crazy or in the wrong". SS-Unterscharführer Oswald Kaduk stated that he did not consider those who maintain such a thing as normal people.

>>18115710
Elie Weasels book was complete fiction though. Everyone knows that.

>>18115712
Yes probably of course.

>>18115713
Irving wrote about Hitler and churchill not about holocaust denial.

>>18115722
Hearing about Holocaust denial compelled former SS-Rottenführer Oskar Gröning to publicly speak about what he witnessed at Auschwitz, and denounce Holocaust deniers, stating:
>I would like you to believe me. I saw the gas chambers. I saw the crematoria. I saw the open fires. I was on the ramp when the selections took place. I would like you to believe that these atrocities happened because I was there

>>18115718
Did these guys bring any photos of gas chambers? Did they do the gassing or are they just bullshit merchants?

>>18115725
Did he take any photos himself or is he bullshiting ? Maybe he wrote a diary about it at the time?

>>18115729
Holocaust denial is given as an example of antisemitism in the IHRA definition of antisemitism, adopted by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance as well as the United Kingdom, Israel, Austria, Scotland, Romania, Germany and Bulgaria. The European Parliament voted in favor of a resolution calling for member states to adopt the definition on June 1, 2017.

The Encyclopedia of Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity defines Holocaust denial as "a new form of anti-Semitism, but one that hinges on age-old motifs". The Anti-Defamation League has stated that "Holocaust denial is a contemporary form of the classic anti-Semitic doctrine of the evil, manipulative and threatening world Jewish conspiracy" and French historian Valérie Igounet has written that "Holocaust denial is a convenient polemical substitute for anti-semitism."

>>18115732
According to Walter Reich, psychiatrist and then a senior scholar at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, one-time director of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, and now professor of international affairs at George Washington University:
>The primary motivation for most deniers is anti-Semitism, and for them the Holocaust is an infuriatingly inconvenient fact of history. After all, the Holocaust has generally been recognized as one of the most terrible crimes that ever took place, and surely the very emblem of evil in the modern age. If that crime was a direct result of anti-Semitism taken to its logical end, then anti-Semitism itself, even when expressed in private conversation, is inevitably discredited among most people. What better way to rehabilitate anti-Semitism, make anti-Semitic arguments seem once again respectable in civilized discourse and even make it acceptable for governments to pursue anti-Semitic policies than by convincing the world that the great crime for which anti-Semitism was blamed simply never happened—indeed, that it was nothing more than a frame-up invented by the Jews, and propagated by them through their control of the media? What better way, in short, to make the world safe again for anti-Semitism than by denying the Holocaust?

>>18115744
Right and that’s literally Israel trying to mess with people all across the world . Everybody knows what’s going on with that. As an argument that’s an automatic fail

>>18115748
Is this evidence backed or just something he says? After all he’s already got motivated reasoning going on here so can’t be trusted automatically by anyone independently looking at this.

>>18115783
The French historian Pierre Vidal-Naquet described the motivation of deniers more succinctly, explaining, "One revives the dead in order the better to strike the living." German political scientist Matthias Küntzel has argued, "Every denial of the Holocaust... contains an appeal to repeat it."

>>18115789
This alleged historian is one of the thirty French historians who wrote in a response to Faurrison that we know the event happened simply because we know the event happened.

Holocaust historians are literally retards and / or cowards shills fags etc.

Again they automatically fail from sheer logic.

>>18115794
Holocaust denial is widely viewed as failing to adhere to principles for the treatment of evidence that mainstream historians (as well as scholars in other fields) regard as basic to rational inquiry.
>History is the attempt to describe events of the past and move from description to analysis, in accordance with certain agreed rules of evidence, of analysis of language, and of logic."

>>18115794
Indeed, to posit such a logic as a truth claim is a clear sign of mental debilitation. This is the pathology of holocaust affirmation and belief.

>>18115798
The Holocaust was well documented by the bureaucracy of the Nazi government itself.
>... the German bureaucrats' collective actions are relatively well-documented for the historian...
Christopher R. Browning, The Path to Genocide: essays on launching the final solution
>According to the historian Raul Hilberg, the United States alone captured forty thousand linear feet of documents on the murder of European Jews ... we can say that the Holocaust is a uniquely well-documented historical event.
Deák, István. Essays on Hitler's Europe

>>18115796
All of which revisionist historians practice to the letter far more robustly than orthodox holocaust affirmers. This is highlighted in various works such as the take down of Yitzak Arad , Evans etc.

>>18115803
It was further witnessed by the Allied forces who entered Germany and its associated Axis states towards the end of World War II. It was also witnessed from the inside by non-Jewish captives such as Catholic French Resistance member André Rogerie who wrote extensively and testified about his experiences in seven camps including Auschwitz-Birkenau and also produced the oldest contemporary sketch of a camp crematorium.

>>18115799
Browning was exposed in a number of works and Hillberg was exposed at the Zündel Trial

>>18115809
According to researchers Michael Shermer and Alex Grobman, there is a "convergence of evidence" that proves that the Holocaust happened. This evidence includes:

>Written documents—hundreds of thousands of letters, memos, blueprints, orders, bills, speeches, articles, memoirs, and confessions.
>Eyewitness testimony—accounts from survivors, Jewish Sonderkommandos (who helped load bodies from the gas chambers into the crematoria in exchange for a chance of survival), SS guards, commandants, local townspeople, and even high-ranking Nazis who spoke openly about the mass murder of the Jews.
>Photographs—including official military and press photographs, civilian photographs, secret photographs taken by survivors, aerial photographs, German and Allied film footage, and unofficial photographs taken by the German military.
>The camps themselves—concentration camps, work camps, and extermination camps that still exist in varying degrees of originality and reconstruction.
>Inferential evidence or argument from silence—population demographics, reconstructed from the pre–World War II era; if six million Jews were not murdered, what happened to them?

>>18115805
No Allied soldier ever witnessed the holocaust. They witnesssed the effects of the war they started.

>>18115815
Much of the controversy surrounding the claims of Holocaust deniers' centers on the methods used to present arguments that the Holocaust allegedly never happened as commonly accepted. Numerous accounts have been given by Holocaust deniers (including evidence presented in court cases) of claimed facts and evidence; however, independent research has shown these claims to be based upon flawed research, biassed statements, or even deliberately falsified evidence. Opponents of Holocaust denial have documented numerous instances in which such evidence was altered or manufactured (see Nizkor Project and David Irving).

>>18115811
The convergence actually works the other way and Shermer was taken apart at the debate with Mark Weber. Never debated again. And his book is awful in various ways. He’s not a holocaust specialist that keeps an archive of collected original materials he’s just some blabber mouth.

>>18115821
The primary responsibility for the Holocaust rests on Hitler and the Nazi Party's leadership, but operations to persecute Jews, Poles, Romani people, homosexuals and others were also perpetrated by the Schutzstaffel (SS), the Wehrmacht, and ordinary German citizens, as well as by collaborationist members of various European governments, including soldiers and civilians. A host of factors contributed to the environment in which atrocities were committed across the continent, ranging from general racism (including antisemitism), religious hatred, blind obedience, apathy, political opportunism, coercion, profiteering, and xenophobia.

>>18115819
In fact the independent research showed that holocaust orthodoxy is fraud.

>>18115824
The enormity of the Holocaust has prompted much analysis. The Holocaust has been characterized as a project of industrial extermination. This led authors such as Enzo Traverso to argue in The Origins of Nazi Violence that Auschwitz was explicitly a product of Western civilization originating from medieval religious and racial persecution that brought together a "particular kind of stigmatization...rethought in the light of colonial wars and genocides." Beginning his book with a description of the guillotine, which according to him marks the entry of the Industrial Revolution into capital punishment, he writes: "Through an irony of history, the theories of Frederick Taylor" (taylorism) were applied by a totalitarian system to serve "not production, but extermination."

>>18115822
The Nazis certainly did persecute and extirpate Jews from Germany and Europe. They did not mass murder them as confirmed by the forensic and documentation record. To this day there exists no counter to this assertion. In 2025 holocaust affirmers no longer credibly exist as they refuse to bring direct arguments on specific details . Nor do their leaders carry out new research. Effectively the debate has been won by revisionists for some years. Any large blurb of copy pasta bullshit from yad vashem can be easily refuted by reference to unimpeachable revisionist scholarship.

>>18115829
Others like Russell Jacoby contend that the Holocaust is a product of German history with deep roots in German society which range from, "German authoritarianism, feeble liberalism, brash nationalism or virulent antisemitism. From A. J. P. Taylor's The Course of German History fifty-five years ago to Daniel Goldhagen's controversial work, Hitler's Willing Executioners, Nazism is understood as the outcome of a long history of uniquely German traits". While some claim that the specificity of the Holocaust was also rooted in the constant antisemitism from which Jews had been the target since the foundation of Christianity, intellectual historian George Mosse argued that the extreme form of European racism that led to the Holocaust fully emerged in the eighteenth century. Others argue that pseudo-scientific racist theories were elaborated upon in order to justify white supremacy and they were accompanied by the Darwinian belief in the survival of the fittest and eugenic notions of racial hygiene—particularly within the German scientific community.

>>18115825
Enzo Traverso is not a real holocaust researcher but instead a man who makes unfounded claims without evidence or response to criticism. Not an actual academic in this regard.

>>18115832
The question of overall responsibility for the atrocities committed under the Nazi regime traverses the oligarchy of those in command, foremost among them the Nazi Party and Third Reich leader Adolf Hitler. In October 1939, he authorized the first Nazi mass killing for those labeled "undesirables" in the T-4 Euthanasia Program. The Nazis termed such people as being "Lives unworthy of life." or lebensunwertes Leben in German. Before the euthanasia program in Germany-proper was over, the Nazis killed between 65,000–70,000 persons. Historian Henry Friedlander calls this period during which the 70,000 adults were killed, the "first phase" of the T4 Program since the program and its contributors precipitated the Holocaust.