>>18112937
compound interest and usury are unBiblical

>>18112942
I don't care about that, but like, how are both Marx and Keynes believers of this dumb cyclical view of history and economic history in particular? That you HAVE to raise wages during a recession, like, what are the indicators of a recession in the first place?
Economics is literally made up

>>18112946
remember the "money printer goes brr" meme?
It's kinda like that
They don't have to convince you or me
Yes you are right, it makes no sense mathematically or logically
Yet it keeps happening

>>18112946
depressions are caused by people losing confidence in the economy. In the 1970's there was stagflation because jews invented credit cards so everybody kept borrowing money instead of slowing down due to the inflation. Kind of like what we're seening now in the market, all time highs with nothing actually being produced

Keynesianism is about fooling people into spending their money AFTER a depression. What we live in today is more of a socialist imperialist death cult

>>18112958
so is it all just going to end up worse? isn't like, the best solution, something like austrian economics for four years in order to have enough funds and then the government spending them like a welfare state would? isn't the entire world at a stagflating point right now
>>18112956
it's like, it makes zero sense in a microeconomic level, so, are my tax dollars just being sent away so that the state can pay back it's debt? like, who is the money even going to at some point? i really wish i learned more of it

>>18112967
Here's something to get you started
it's a dirty and sordid game
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sIE84LWvqU8 (don't worry it's not a rickroll)
If you prefer a book instead I would recommend Goodson's central banking

>>18112967
Basically the US and British empires have no inclination to stop spending money, Keynes was made the poster child of the modern economy so you blame him instead of the government

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>>18112937
The problem is that you're poor. You don't understand how money works because you're poor. This is evident from your deep scepticism that borrowing can be a good thing. You can't even think of basic bitch middle class economic examples like borrowing money from the bank to buy a house that gains value or getting a small business loan that both pays off the loan and gives you additional income. Credit is a good thing not a bad thing.

You're thinking of macroeconomics like a working class person looking at their household budget. "Why would I get into a bunch of credit card debt when times are rough, that's only going to make things worse for me?!" You need to think of Keynesian stimulus spending more like a business loan that's going to increase revenue and get a struggling business out of its rut. The idea is that you grow your way out of trouble rather than shrinking your way out of it. This option typically isn't available to your average working class person because they don't have leverage. Nation states do have leverage - this is all that Keynes was really pointing out.

Keynesian economics were designed for crisis situations, not for the day-to-day economy.

The primary idea of keynesianism is that the economy is driven by spending, so a recession occurs when any factor causes spending to decrease, thus the government spends a lot in that circumstance to compensate.

Borrowing increases the current spending but reduces the future spending (because you must pay the debt by reducing consumption), creating the economic cycles. Government borrowing is justified under the idea that the economy will eventually reactivate and provide enough tax revenue to do so.

There's a lot of things wrong with Keynesian economics (especially regarding government spending) but the general idea behind it is true.

>>18113079
Eighth post best post & thread

>>18112937
i must subsidise demand by going into a deficit (keynesian)
i must subsidise demand by destroying the value of my currency (MMT)

Austrian school supremacy

>>18112937
The philosophy was used to place America in a war time economy for WW1and WW2. Its an expansionist strategy. It's what enables America to go around swinging its dick all over the place. Roosevelt used it at times in a manner that makes one think of Joseph Stalin. My understanding of European economics is limited, but both depressions preceeding the wars were global. And America found itself in a position to become a powerhouse. Just get rid of a few pesky founding economic ideals and blamo you're king of the world! Europe was on a gold standard before WW1 as well. Can anyone explain Europe's transition from the gold standard?

>>18113349
The gold standard was unsustainable. After World War II, the US controlled 80% of all the gold in the world because Europe and Asia had been completely ravaged by war and no one could afford it.

They tried to solve this with Bretton Woods, which pegged European and Asian currencies to the US dollar to back them with gold indirectly. The US government printed more money than it had backed by gold because the dollar was in high demand everywhere and no government objected to it because they all benefited from it. Then, the US ran out of gold during the Nixon presidency and was forced to reveal the scam and put an end to it.

The truth is that no bank or government in history has ever respected or followed the gold standard. Libertarians believe otherwise because they are retarded and worship big banks.

>>18112937
You seem to have a confused understanding of Keynesianism
>>Debt is alright, and actually good
Keynes didn't think debt was good. Keynesianism is that governments should run a budget surplus in normal economic conditions, so they will have enough leeway to do temporary deficit spending when a recession happens. After the recession ends, he believed the government should cut spending and eliminate debt again.

>>18113155
>Borrowing increases the current spending but reduces the future spending
No it doesn't. One man's debt is another man's asset; the overall level of each makes no difference at all in terms of the macroeconomy. Keynes' insight concerns the short term demand for savings and investment and how they are different from each other, even though in terms of the whole economy these are also identical, and how the disequilibrium there can have negative effects on real variables like employment and business formation

>>18112946
Depression back then are caused by slumps In demands as people tighten their spending in response to bad times. Keynesian policies are the exact correct remedy to the Great Depression.
The Japs got out of the great depression in a year, their finance minister put it succinctly: "the solution is to spend more at the whore house".

>>18112937
>>Debt is alright, and actually good
He didn't say debt was good per se, just that debt was preferable to deflation caused by a lapse in economic stimulus and demand for goods and services

>>18114162
The gold standard ensures a Nations people don't get fucked. Politicians, bankers and businessman get bored with this so they go to war and invent things like Keynesian economics.
So America became Keynesian to plunder Europe's gold? Lol.
I still want to know more about the gold standard in europe pre WW1. There was a trade market based on the gold standard that affected the price of gold worldwide?

This is like a test to see if humanity won't destroy itself.
>hey can you guys adhere to a money system that doesn't fuck the people and not destroy it forever because you want to have a super cool big war?
Nope.
America became Keynesian before WW1 so it could pump and dump Europe. Print money you don't have to produce war goods to get all Europe's gold. America could have kept the gold standard made money and not gone to war. Then Germany would balance Russias power. Britian and France would be better off. WW2 would never have happened. And America would be much more free and optomistic. Politicians and industrialists really fucked us.
Britain was the wealthiest Nation in Europe before WW1 and one thing they have never been able to accept is a non cucked Germany so they sold out to America because prots and motorcars lol.
Britain fucked the world and created Nazis.

>>18114450
Yes, then they went bust and lost WW2. Its all a global shell game for power. The people taking out loans are the pawns. Whatever country takes on the most debt along with having the most labor and resources wins but only until thier debt bubble collapses and they become subservient to the next debt spiral power.

>>18113079
>You need to think of Keynesian stimulus spending more like a business loan that's going to increase revenue and get a struggling business out of its rut.
The reason that business struggle is either malinvestment (like over-producing stuff that the consumers don't want) or mismanagement. Taking a loan does zilch to solve these - actual - problems and mass scale government intervention is only kicking the can down the road while letting these problems accumulate and making them much bigger in the future. (Keynes, when facing this critique has responded that "in the future we'll all be dead" btw. HE is dead, WE are the future that is currently struggling with the consequences of his policies).
In a healthy private market inefficient firms collapse daily - it's not an issue because they are being replaced daily by new-comers; often acquiring the productive equipment of the very bankrupt companies on the cheap. There are no concentrated periods of booms and busts where whole industries collapse within weeks and mass scale unemployment happens as there are no safe heavens for business. Mass crises are mere consequences of centralized - mass - economic interventions.

>>18113012
This. Remember, Keynes even got a mention in a fucking David Bowie song!

>>18114239
This so much, you can't have ""real"" Keynesianism without being a fiscal hawk in certain cycles.