Ancient Peruvians built walled fortresses
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>>18112989I really like these inca longhouses, they remind me of Germanic or neolithic longhouses but these ones were made of stone really cool.
>>18112989Yes, I knew
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Incan Cusco reconstructed.
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Peru amazes me, there is so many different civilizations that spawned from this region.
>>18113030Sacsayhuaman had three towers, but only the foundations of one remainAlso I like these miniature funerary towers (chullpas)
>>18113037Thes two sites Pumapunku and Tiwanaku have unfortunately been the targets of ancient alien schizos.
>>18113042Pumapunku was never actually constructed, they just left the pieces scattered like a disassembled lego set so no one knows how the temple was supposed to look like, I wonder if they were "interrupted" by invaders
>>18113053I've seen some interesting theorized reconstructions though
>>18113039Oh ok interesting. This was a citadel right?
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>>18113053That's a shame, I bet it would have been incredible when it was finished.
>>18113006What remains of it.
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>>18113057It was a fort on the outskirts of Cuzco, the Incan capital>>18113056>>18113058Also I think this could be a fairly accurate reconstruction considering the position in which pieces were found and the platforms
>>18112989Yeah. It's crazy how absolutely divided the region was before the Inca empire came out of nowhere to conquer everything. The altiplano was mostly teeny tiny warring settlements and city states. IIRC the largest polity in the area at the time was Chimor.
So what did they do in those settlements all day were they fortified villages or fortresses for larger polities centered in cities
>>18113109It varies site by site. But a lot of these were centers in their own right. Others were Inca fortresses. And one set is just pictures of Tiwanaku.
>>18113053>temple
>>18113567probably yeah
>>18113205Wari D shaped temples in the city of Warii
>>18115980city of Wari*Specifically Capillapata sector
>>18112989that is Cruz Pampa (Urpish), a Yaro (Yarowillka) site, they ruler over much of Guanuco region in northern Peru before the Incas and after the Wari.Like many other highland Peruvian peoples, after the Wari collapse there was a lot of conflict, and people began living in fortified hilltop settlements. In many places, urbanism was thrown out the window, but the Yaro seem to have been among the less affected.In general, the northern highlands and the coast were some of the less affected areas.
The Indian chronicler Guaman Poma always talked about how his Yarowillka ancestors were superior and the rightful rulers of Peru instead of the Incas, and that during the Inca Empire held high positions like generals and governors, among other self-glorifying Yarowillka tales. Some very obviously made up, like that they were already Christians but the Incas turned them back to paganism.
>>18117709>like that they were already Christians but the Incas turned them back to paganism.truth
>>18117709The Texcocoan royal dynasge back in Mexico also did that. I suppose it was a pretty big source of insecurity for early colonial native americans in spanish america, reconciling the pride they felt for the accomplishments of their pre-columbian ancestors with their christian faith
>>18117840Probably not.And According to Poma, his grandfather Capac Apu (Great Lord) Guaman Chawa was made Incap Rantin, kind of a viceroy of the emperor, and often traveled throughout the realm “from Quito to Chile”But his family surely was at least moderately notable in Inca times. Poma’s family lands were in Ayacucho (southern Peru) at least since his father’s time (Guaman Mallqui), despite their origin being in Huanuco.An Inca commander who raised the region of Huanuco in rebellion against the colonial Spanish administration, called Illa Topa, was born in Guanaco (also known as Guanuco Pampa), the Inca-built provincial capital. Illa Topa might have had some Yaro/Wamalli blood, though his father was Inca Emperor Tupac Yupanqui, from whom Guaman Poma also claimed descent.>>18117840
And I vaguely recall that some of the army officers who went to Bolivia by order of Emperor Wayna Qhapaq, to secure the land after the Chiriguano (Ava Guarani) raids with Alexio Garcia, were also from Huanuco.At the very least, that army came from northern Peru: Huanuco, Chachapoyas, Cajamarca, Huamachuco, and Chinchaycocha. And brought their idols with them (such as Cajamarca-Huamachuco’s Catequilla, Chachapoyas' Cuychaculla, etc.). This was probably in part because Wayna Qhapaq was in the north at the time, pacifying Quito (Ecuador).So Wayna Qhapaq sent south his "best general," Yasca (or Pasca), to take charge. He assembled the army in northern Peru, went to Bolivia, and rebuilt fortifications in case of another Chiriguano attack.Btw, Alexio García was shortly murdered by his Guaraní allies after escaping to Paraguay. A few years later, Pizarro landed in Peru, then returned to Spain, and later came back for the conquest.
Yasca was the son of General Auqui Topa, who had been tasked by his father, Emperor Tupac Yupanqui, with finally subduing the Huanuco region for good during Capac Apu Chawa’s time, Poma’s great-grandfather.And Yasca/Pasca was probably the same Inca general of that name who later allied with Pizarro, along with others like Huaypar and Inquill, and non-Inca commanders like Vilchumlay.Pasca was the supreme commander of the Inca army allied with the Spaniards and was the one who assaulted Sacsayhuaman >>18113030, after it had been captured by Vila Oma, the supreme pontiff, the second most powerful person in the kingdom’s religious affairs, who also served as general of the rebel emperor Manco Inca during the siege of Cusco.
bump
>>18117709I wouldn't trust anything Andeans told me about the past. And I don't mean it in a hostile sense. Just, one chronicler reported that every time he interviewed elders to record their histories they said they were a completely different age. Days apart.While some things were made up for politics I don't think it can be discounted they believed some of the less plausible fabrications.
>>18112989I did know that, yes, and it was a most pleasant surprise.
>>18113039The bural towers in Canta are the
coolest, in my opinionCanta is in Lima region
These are called kullpi.Chullpa is more of a southern term, it probably wasn’t used in Cajamarca when that burial tower in Chocta was built, same period as these, the Late Intermediate, but by the Cajamarca culture, these are by the Canta culture. Though chullpa is used today for Cajamarca burial towers, it likely spread north during the Inca Empire.
>>18119508Chroniclers’ views on the Indians and theri capabilities vary widely (like in retelling past events). For the Inca area, I would say most were neutral or favorable.Though during the Cronicas Toledanas period, Viceroy Toledo censored praise and pushed to downplay Inca past grandeur. Some were writing that the Inca state had been more efficient than the colonial one.This was a reaction to movements like Taki Onqoy, Chocne's underground cult was prophesying a new Inca age. I would say, the harshest views appear with the priests involved with Toledo’s extirpation of idolatry records.But not all of them and sometimes was subtle, like Acosta claiming jaguars were crueler to indians than Spaniards.Sometimes goofy, like concluding indians had no thoughts because they always replied “in nothing” when asked what they were thinking of (in their own language).
For recounting time, many chroniclers praised the usefulness of quipus, though others doubted their accuracy.Cobo, for instance, recounts how two Spaniards left Ica for Choclococha. One stayed at a nearby tambo while the other continued his journey with an indian guide, who later killed him on the road. Years passed with no trace of the victim, until the city governor reopened the case. Officials went back to the tambo to request the old quipu records, and the quipucamayocs, checking their knots, found the exact entry of the day the guide had been assigned to the Spaniard. The man was then located and confessed.Cobo concludes, "por este caso tan notable se puede echar de ver adonde alcanzaba la cuenta y memoria destos quipos": by this remarkable case one can see how far the reckoning and memory of these quipus reached
According to father Molina:>Nevertheless, they used a very clever method of counting with strands of wool with two knots, using different colored wool in the knots, which they call quipus. They communicated and [still] communicate so well by means of this, [that] they can recall everything that has occurred in this land over the span of five hundred yearsAccording to father Murua>It was, however, more ingenious and subtle, and by means of it they recorded events from innumerable years past, which the Indians, whose profession it was, recounted so precisely and distinctly that even the best and most skilled readers of our writings could not surpass them in specifying the times and occasions, the persons, ages, and circumstances involved—something truly marvelous and worthy of esteemBetanzos (and many others of his early period) often employed quipucamayoc for their books about Incan history. Betanzos says he was aided by Supno, Cayapiña, and other khipu-kamayuq-kuna (plural suffix)As you go further in time, there’s more distrust. Vasco de Contreras, writing 100 years later, says about Molina:>[He was an] old priest [and] scrutinizer of the intricate quipu annals of those times or, better said, labyrinths where the Indians would barbarically imprison the memoirs of their ancient past
Now, after the clusterfuck that was Peru for a long time before Pedro de la Gasca, with war after war since the Inca civil war. Some took the chance to rewrite their own past. There were lawsuits where indian litigants accused each other of being fake heirs.Some Spaniards twisted their own stories too, Mancio Sierra de Leguizamo, the “last conquistador” to die in Peru, is often believed to be an exaggerator. He supposedly gambled away Atahualpa’s golden throne (usnu). In modern times, one of his descendants wrote a book disputing many of his claims.Sierra was dramatic and in his last will and grave reads something along the lines of: “Here rests the last conquistador of Peru, filled with regret for destroying such a utopia.” Sierra likely helped shape Garcilaso’s vision of that same Incan utopia free of poverty, hunger, and crime, since Garcilaso had been close friends with Sierra’s son as a kid in Cusco.
>>18121286>Here rests the last conquistador of Peru, filled with regret for destroying such a utopia"I wish Your Majesty to understand the motive that moves me to make this statement is the peace of my conscience and because of the guilt I share. For we have destroyed by our evil behaviour such a government as was enjoyed by these natives. They were so free of crime and greed, both men and women, that they could leave gold or silver worth a hundred thousand pesos in their open house... I beg God to pardon me, for I am moved to say this, seeing that I am the last to die of the Conquistadors."
>>18121286>There were lawsuits where indian litigants accused each otherPoma himself seems to have been a victim of this.During the Inca Empire, his ancestors became the lords of the entire Chupas Valley and its settlements near the city of Ayacucho, at least according to him and several relatives (allied litigants) during a series of legal disputes.After lengthy inspections, petitions, and decrees, the court ultimately rejected his claims, favoring, among others, 20-30 contesting Chachapoya families.In 1600, a very severe sentence was pronounced against Guaman Poma, ordering him into exile.Defeated and humiliated by accusations of being a quarrelsome impostor, a common Indian, and a false ethnic lord of the lands he claimed, Guaman Poma is believed to have resolved at that point to denounce these and other abuses in his famous Chronicle.And so he began a long journey across the realm, some scholars believe he was mirroring ancient pilgrimages.
>>18112989>>18112990>>18112992>>18113006wow they are totally not retarded subhuman midgets, they are valued people worthy of love and definitely should not be discriminated against by attractive women.
>>18121381>>they areThere are no incas anymore.All what is left is mixed peruvians with white and subsaharian ancestry also.Its over incabros.
>>18121479This is a myth, tons of purebred or nearly purebred native americans are still around, especially in guatemala and peru
>>18121381this but unironically
> decent /his/ thread>a khazari horde appears with their pleb minions
>>18121913>>18121916>>18121919VGHH....
>>18121903For Inca pukaras, the largest number were located along the Empire’s troublesome borders, especially north of Quito in Chinchaysuyu.This one belongs to Collasuyu, on the southeastern frontier of the Empire, in what was the Inca province of Chuquisaca, near Bolivia’s Guarani border
>>18121930Wall features (including loopholes for shooting) of a pukara located slightly farther south, near what used to be the Inca province of Catamarca in Argentina.
Pukaras could include trenches and parapets
>>18121930>>18121931>>18121940Noice. Too bad pleb can't appreciate patrician posts.
>>18121930Another Inca pukara, one of several built to control Calchaqui lands in Argentina.The Calchaqui also became troublesome foes for the Spanish. In one of their wars, they were led by a Spanish (or maybe Quitenian) guy who showed up claiming to be a descendant of the Inca emperors, and was crowned “Inca Hualpa.” He then went to war against the Spaniards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j6zjpPPy6U
How many Incan sites are outside of Peru? I know there are a few sites in Argentina that were probably forts in 'outsider' territory, but nothing major afaik?
>>18123378Many, following OP's thread theme, for example 133 Inca pukaras are archeologically known in Ecuador.And Wayna Qhapaq (while in Quito, Ecuador) ordered (to Yasca) the construction of pukaras (48 according to Ruiz Diaz de Guzman) on the Guarani frontier. Guarani groups like the Chiriguanos (and others, pic) were pushing against the Inca frontier during Wayna Qhapaq’s time, searching for the “land without evil” to the west.It’s still unclear how far east the Inca actually advanced. I mentioned the Calchaqui before, but there are signs of Inca presence much farther east. The furthest might have been Kolla Astay, though that’s debated.Tupac Yupanqui and his army reportedly went as far as where Buenos Aires is today, turning back after reaching and seeing the La Plata estuary (“river”). Of course, how far they advanced isn’t the same as how much they controlled. These days, most new research on Inca frontiers focuses on Kollasuyu, since, apart from Chinchaysuyu, other territories got little mention in the chronicles.
>turning back after reaching and seeing the La Plata estuaryBetanzos: He [Tupac Yupanqui] received news of the province of the Juries [shuri=rhea, Juri people were excellent archers he later recruited] and ordered his army to march there, and when they arrived, he engaged them in battle and combat, and in the end he defeated and subdued them. And once he had already subjected the nation of the Juries, he went forward and came to a great river said to be La Plata River [estuary], and when he arrived there and saw how wide it was, he did not cross it and instead followed its bank [turning back along it] until he reached its source...
>>18124494However, the most mysterious frontier today is still that of Antisuyu, where the border remains the most uncertain because of the dense rainforest.The Incas seem to have known that the Amazon flowed all the way to the other side of the continent, since after spending some time on the coast, one of the first things Pizarro told Atahualpa’s messengers, sent from the highlands, was that he meant no harm and was only temporarily in their country, planning to cross it to reach the river that connects to the other sea.
>>18121479Peru alone has millions of unmixed natives>whiteIberians on the other hand are all inferior moor rapebabies with negroid blood
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Based Inca bros
