Continuing this thread: >>18094530I want to pick up from this comment:> Jesus' stepmother/ally Glaphyra was a lunar princess descended from the shrines at Comana, a place that Caesar himself also visited. Her descendants is why Armenia turned christian immediately, as she was the widow of the Hasmonean heir that the Herods had psyopped into becoming their own claim.> The Armenian church = Priesthood of Comana through Glaphyra, that acknowledged John the Baptist as new high priest, followed by Jesus as opposed to the Herod-collaborating Pharisees.> Juba II through his concurrent marriage with Glaphyra and Cleopatra Selene II used his authority as the senior male of the southern mediterranean to assign John the Baptist as new high priest (while still in the womb) of his new wife Glaphyra's oppositional reinstation of Israel against the Herods.> Picrel is Lucas' nod towards Juba II having Glaphyra, Cleopatra Selene II as well as Augustus' close family females as allies and scholarly pupils.> "Ahsoka" is technically one of these alter ego clones, as she is based on Cleopatra Selene II.> George swapped the age-difference between Juba II and Glaphyra though, to avoid Anakin having two loli brides, and instead having one of each to properly portray his moral neutrality and not some sexlord pedo.
This is the picrel from that comment.
>>18118085> George swapped the age-difference between Juba II and Glaphyra though, to avoid Anakin having two loli brides, and instead having one of each to properly portray his moral neutrality and not some sexlord pedo.Juba II is only 15 years older than Glaphyra. Born in 48 BC vs 35 BC. That being said, 15 years is a lot if you're around 30 years old or so.> Jesus' stepmother/ally Glaphyra was a lunar princess descended from the shrines at Comana, a place that Caesar himself also visited. Her descendants is why Armenia turned christian immediately, as she was the widow of the Hasmonean heir that the Herods had psyopped into becoming their own claim.>Hasmonean heirYou must be referring to Alexander, "son of Herod" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander,_son_of_Herod). His mother was Mariamne (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariamne_I). She was also the second wife of Herod, so this is where historians assume Alexander is son of Herod, but he could have been the step son of Herod if Mariamne had married or consumated with someone else first.>Glaphyra bore Alexander three children; two of whom are sons, Tigranes, Alexander, and an unnamed daughter.These are the two sons:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_(grandson_of_Herod_the_Great)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigranes_V_of_Armenia>Alexander II, also known by his Roman name Gaius Julius Alexander (Greek: Γαίος Ιούλιος Αλέξανδρος, 15 BC-probably between 26 and 28 AD) was a Herodian prince. The name reminds me of these guys:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emesene_dynasty#Priest-Kings>After his time as king of Armenia, Tigranes remained in contention to reclaim his throne through to the first years of Roman Emperor Tiberius' reign. Around 18 AD Vonones I died. However, the kingdom of Armenia was given to Artaxias III. Not a ton to go on for Tigranes, son of Glaphyra and Alexander.
>>18118202That's actually crazy that Glaphyra was the widow of the last Hasmonean and also the sister in law of one of the last Ptolemies (Cleopatra Selene II). And on top of it, her brother was the priest king and descendant of great generals/kings of Pontus and Cappadocia.It's not clear to me who "John" would be in this. I assume John is a title, like Oannes from Babylonian religion. Presumably, he would be the highest ranking guy when Juba made his appointment. This would have to be after about 6 AD but maybe not much longer. (This does seem to coincide with the "Roman census" that Judas of Gamala rebels against, but not sure what to make of that).Is John the priest-king of Comana? And he then appoints his successor, who is remembered as Jesus?
Emesa vs Comana:- both led by priest-kings- right next to each other- Emesa follows Egabalus. Comana's god... unclear, but I am guessing Mithraic/Medean?- Emesa's king names are pro-Caesar, whereas the Mithridatic kings fought Caesar and Rome>The Pontic region was self-governing as the Kingdom of Pontus from 281 BCE with the ascension of Mithridates I of Pontus (Persian Mithridatic dynasty) until 63 BCE when Mithridates VI of Pontus was defeated at the Battle of the Lycus by Roman General Pompey. So, the "Pontic Empire" is actually the Comanan Empire? At least, the nobility descends from Comana.
>>18118254>- Emesa follows Egabalus. Comana's god... unclear, but I am guessing Mithraic/Medean?From wiki:>The Hittite temple in Comana Pontica was dedicated to the goddess Ma>Ma, the main goddess of the temple state, has been on the coin since the time of the official emperor Caligula.>According to Strabo (12.3.32), the Comana Pontica temple was a replica of the temple in Cappadocia and the methods of celebration were the same. >The city was known both as Hierocaesareia and Komana until the time of Titus (39–81 CE) (IGR III, 105,106). The collapse of the temple accelerated the spread of Christianity. The name was Romanized from Komana Pontika to Comana Pontica.More:>Governing Comana Pontica was by the Chief Priest who was second in line behind the King of Pontus.>Mithridates VI claimed to be a direct descendant of Alexander the Great and had fought against the Roman Generals: Sulla, Lucullus, and Pompey
>>18118270https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnarchy_of_Comana>The ethnarchy of Comana was a client-state of ancient Rome that lay between Pontus and Cappadocia. It was based around the city of Comana and surrounding territories south of the Black Sea.>>It was ruled by a high-priest of Bellona. >Bellona was an ancient Roman goddess of war. Her main attribute is the military helmet worn on her head; she often holds a sword, spear, or shield, and brandishes a torch or whip as she rides into battle in a four-horse chariot. She had many temples throughout the Roman Empire. She is known for her temple outside Rome being the official decision making centre with regard to war and for her bloodlust and madness in battle. >Consort: Mars>Ma was a local goddess at Comana in Cappadocia. Her name Ma means "Mother", and she also had the epithets "Invincible" and "Bringer of Victory". >Ma has been interpreted as a mother goddess, but at the same time as a warrior goddess, as her name and epithets indicate both.>>She was associated with the transition of adulthood of both genders, and sacred sex rituals were practiced during her biennial festivals.>>Ma was also seen as a moon goddess, being associated with the Anatolia moon god Mēn, with a temple estate dedicated to Mēn Pharnakou and Selene at Ameria, near Cabira, in the Kingdom of Pontus, being an attempt to counter-balance the influence of the Moon goddess Ma of Comana.>>Ma has been identified with a number of other deities, indicating her function. She has been compared to Cybele and Bellona. The ancient Greeks compared Ma to the goddess Enyo and Athena Nicephorus. Plutarch likened her with Semele and Athena. Ma was introduced and worshiped in Macedonia together with other foreign deities.
>>18118283Forgot to post links for rest of this post:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellona_(goddess)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_(goddess)>[Ma] has been compared to Cybele and Bellona.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybele>In Rome, Cybele became known as Magna Mater ("Great Mother"). The Roman state adopted and developed a particular form of her cult after the Sibylline oracle in 205 BC recommended her conscription as a key religious ally in Rome's second war against Carthage (218 to 201 BC). >Cybele (/ˈsJbəliː/ SIB-ə-lee; Phrygian: Matar Kubileya, Kubeleya 'Kubeleya Mother', perhaps 'Mountain Mother'; Lydian: Kuvava; Greek: Κυβέλη Kybélē, Κυβήβη Kybēbē, Κύβελις Kybelis) is an Anatolian mother goddess; she may have a possible forerunner in the earliest Neolithic at Çatalhöyük. She is Phrygia's only known goddess, and likely, its national deity.Almost certainly the origin for "Kabbalah".>Uniquely in Greek religion, she had a eunuch mendicant priesthood, the Galli. Many of her Greek cults included rites to a divine Phrygian castrate shepherd-consort Attis, who was probably a Greek invention. In Greece, Cybele became associated with mountains, town and city walls, fertile nature, and wild animals, especially lions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_KingsKing of Kings:>King of Kings was an imperial title employed primarily by monarchs based in the Middle East and the Indian subcontinent. Commonly associated with Iran (historically known as Persia in the West), especially the Achaemenid and Sasanian Empires, the title was originally introduced during the Middle Assyrian Empire by King Tukulti-Ninurta I (reigned 1233–1197 BC) and was subsequently used in a number of different kingdoms and empires, including the aforementioned Persia, various Hellenic kingdoms, India, Armenia, Georgia, and Ethiopia. >In Judaism, Melech Malchei HaMelachim ("the King of Kings of Kings") came to be used as a name of God. "King of Kings" (Ancient Greek: βασιλεὺς τῶν βασιλευόντων, romanized: basileùs ton basileuónton) is also used in reference to Jesus Christ several times in the Bible, notably in the First Epistle to Timothy and twice in the Book of Revelation. This is a bit of a detour, but I had suggested that this "king of kings" concept is more important than western historians let on.Basileus reminded me of something I read a long time ago about early English rulers.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belinus>Belinus was a legendary king of the Britons, as recounted by Geoffrey of Monmouth. He was the son of Dunvallo Molmutius and brother of Brennius and came to power in 390 BC. He was probably named after the ancient god Belenus. This is an England with a king name that sounds Phoenician or Pontic in character. (Can we just say the Pontic/Cappadocian people are Phoenician?)However, there is also Cunobeline, or Cuno-Belinus:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunobeline>Cunobeline or Cunobelin (Brittonic: *Cunobelinos, "Dog-Strong"), also known by his name's Latin form Cunobelinus, was a king in pre-Roman Britain from about AD 9 to about AD 40. He is mentioned in passing by the classical historians Suetonius and Dio Cassius, and many coins bearing his inscription have been found.
>>18118340>Can we just say the Pontic/Cappadocian people are PhoenicianNo that's insane.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DyteutusDyteutus:>Dyteutus (died AD 34), eldest son of the Galatian ruler Adiatorix, was a ruler of Comana, a city in Cappadocia. After the father and his eldest son were sentenced to death by Octavianus for the father's partisanship towards Mark Antony, Dyteutus's younger brother asked to die in his brother's place, claiming that he was in fact the elder son. At first Dyteutus resisted, but was persuaded by his father and mother to go along with the deception, on the grounds that his maturity would secure greater protection for his mother and the other surviving members of his family, and the younger brother was put to death. Some contemporary writers reckon the guilt over this false execution was what led Augustus to elevate Dyteutus to rule Comana.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AdiatorixAdiatorix:>Adiatorix (Ancient Greek: Ἀδιατόριξ) was the son of Domneclius (or Domnilaus), tetrarch of the Trocmi in Galatia. Cicero reports that he was a high priest in 50 BC, and scholars have reckoned him an adherent of Deiotarus. He belonged to Mark Antony's party, and was put in charge of Heraclea Pontica by him. Shortly before the Battle of Actium in 31, Adiatorix had all the Roman colonists in Heracleia put to death. He claimed he had been given permission to do so by Mark Antony, but modern writers consider this doubtful. After this battle he was led as prisoner in the triumph of Augustus, and put to death with his younger son. His elder son, Dyteutus, was subsequently made priest of Bellona in Comana, and therefore ruler of that territory.
Yeah I read some Ralph Ellis books too
>>18118366Ralph's idea of research is to move dates around until it fits the bible.
>>18118357I'm a little confused for a few reasons.1. This timeline seems to contradict the Archelaus lineage.2. It's unclear when exactly Juba II does something about this political situation, and I haven't found evidence yet for this action.3. There seems to be a group that was loyal to Antony and then a group that was loyal to Julius Caesar and his descendants. We can't just say "loyal to Rome" because these are different factions, and they killed each other over this.Archelaus of Cappadocia:>Archelaus (Greek: Ἀρχέλαος; fl. 1st century BC and 1st century, died 17 AD) was a Roman client prince and the last king of Cappadocia. He was also husband of Pythodorida, Queen regnant of Pontus. >The paternal grandfather of Archelaus, also known as Archelaus, was the first in his family to be High Priest and Roman Client Ruler of Comana. His paternal grandfather claimed to be descended from King Mithridates VI of Pontus. Chronologically, his paternal grandfather may have been a maternal grandson of the Pontic King—his father Archelaus, the favorite general of Mithridates VI, may have married one of his monarch's daughters.I guess we have to conclude there's more than one male line among these Cappadocian priest-kings. It is said that whoever was appointed priest was also king, but priesthood didn't simply descend from father to son, otherwise it would be a simple monarchy. I'm thinking that the denotation of "priest-king" implies that priests elect the king, so it's a theocratic aristocracy (or republic, depending on how they managed the people I suppose).
>>18118544>I'm thinking that the denotation of "priest-king" implies that priests elect the king, so it's a theocratic aristocracy (or republic, depending on how they managed the people I suppose).Btw, the fact that people don't recognize this might be why they try to claim that one person had so many different alter egos across empire. They're trying to make bloodline and title line up. If we separate the two, then we can see how bloodlines weave into the title and the institution, which sits as this massive elephant in the room.We've seen that Ma, Bellona, Cybele are at least connected. I think we could also show Medea, Artemis, and possibly Mithra (I realize Mithra is a boy/man, but could be the son of the same mother figure) too.This on its own has a lot of potential religious significance. Matriarchy vs Patriarchy. LHP vs RHP. What I know of Medean rites seems to imply a sort of "matriarchy", at least to the extent that birth and reproduction were in the hands of priestesses (not priests). This doesn't mean that the priestesses controlled every aspect of society, but they retained that power. Conversely, you have to wonder about the Galli priests, who as males seem to have replaced the roles of the women in the same rites. This favored male control over reproduction, which in turn affects how society is structured. However, the Galli still used the symbolism of the great mother, so you can't really go on the binary idea of male or female symbols to distinguish this shift.
>The name Comana Chryse most likely derives from the Hittite 'Kummanni', under which name the city was referred to prior to the arrival of the Greeks. Though we can't be certain where the rites of Ma originated with regard to the biennial festivities that took place within the city, the usual circumstances may be applicable, the Winter and Summer celestial solstices, as well as older cultural circumstances, referring to the sacred sexual rites of the Hittites.>The sacred prostitution practiced by the Hittites is believed to have worshiped the mating of two deities, the bull and the lion. And, as we will see later in this article, the Temple of Ma-Enyo, located in the center of Sar, is decorated in high reliefs of lions and bulls entwined in battle.>These rites, and this cult, may explain the establishment of Comana Pontus, a temple state of Men (male moon god associated with the moon goddess), as a counter balance to Comana Chryse, the temple state of Ma (mother moon goddess)?I see.Comana Chryse:- temple of Ma (moon goddess)Comana Pontus:- temple of Men (moon god)These are two separate locations. "The Comana priesthood" (or Kummanni) is not specific enough. Maybe these two groups acted in unison, but there are at least two titles here, it would seem.I also wonder if "Chryse" has any association with "Christianity". It lines up quite well.
>>18118625Dytetus:- priest-king of Comana Pontus (Men)- father was Adiatorix- died in 34 ADArchelaus I and II:- priest-king of Comana Chryse (Ma)- died in 17 and 38 AD
>>18118689>DytetusSpelling: DyteutusFrom Strabo's Geography 12.3.37:>The later Roman prefects assigned a portion of these two governments to the priests of Comana, a portion to the priest of Zela, and a portion to Ateporix, a dynast of the family of tetrarchs of Galatia; but now that Ateporix has died, this portion, which is not large, is subject to the Romans, being called a province (and this little state is is a political organisation of itself, the people having incorporated Carana into it, from which fact its country is called Caranitis), whereas the rest is held by Pythodoris and Dyteutus.>PythodorisThis was the queen of Pontus and wife of King Polemon I of Pontus, then King Archelaus of Cappadocia.>Polemon I died in 8 BC, and Pythodoris continued as Queen of Pontus until her death. Pythodoris was able to retain Colchis and Cilicia but not the Bosporan Kingdom which was granted to her first husband's stepson, Aspurgus. She then married King Archelaus of Cappadocia. Archelaus and Pythodoris had no children. Through her second marriage, she became Queen of Cappadocia. Pythodoris had moved with her children from Pontus to Cappadocia to live with Archelaus. When Archelaus died in 17, Cappadocia became a Roman province and she returned with her family back to Pontus. This seems to imply that Dyteutus and Archelaus of Cappadocia are the same person. (And I know what I said earlier about alter egos / aliases).This would mean Archelaus II (Archelaus of Cilicia) is son of Archelaus I but stepson of Pythodoris.
Duh.>[Archelaus of Cilicia] was the son and heir of the Roman Client King Archelaus of Cappadocia from his first marriage to a princess from Armenia and his sister was the Cappadocian princess Glaphyra.>His mother may have been a daughter of King Artavasdes II of Armenia of the Artaxiad dynasty. The father of Artavasdes II was Tigranes the Great, who married Cleopatra of Pontus, a daughter of Mithridates VI from his first wife, his sister, Laodice. The Armenian princess being an Artaxiad princess (of Tigranes the Great's lineage) is interesting.>Artavasdes' name is the Latin attestation of an Old Iranian name *Ṛtavazdah-, identical to the Avestan Ašavazdah, presumably meaning "powerful/persevering through truth". It is attested in Armenian as Artavazd and in Greek as Artaouásdēs, Artabázēs, Artábazos, and Artáozos.Artabazos and Monobazos are just one prefix apart. Forgive the speculation and lack of etymological knowledge, but Mono-bazus might "one truth" if the "Arta-" part refers to the "powerful/preserving" part. "Mono" could also refer to Men, the temple at Comana Pontus. Actually, his name is also rendered Munbaz, so that makes some sense.
>>18118738>During the reign of Tigranes the Great (95–55 BC), the kingdom of Armenia was at the zenith of its power and briefly became the most powerful state to the east of the Roman Republic. Artaxias and his followers had already constructed the base upon which Tigranes built his empire. Despite this fact, the territory of Armenia, being a mountainous one, was governed by nakharars who were largely autonomous from the central authority. Tigranes unified them in order to create internal security in the kingdom. The borders of Armenia stretched from the Caspian Sea to the Mediterranean Sea. At that time, the Armenian territories had become so expansive, that the Romans and Parthians had to join forces in order to beat them. Tigranes founded a more central capital within his domain and named it Tigranocerta.>Large territories were taken from the Parthians, who were forced to sign a treaty of friendship with Tigranes. Iberia, Albania, and Atropatene also lost territories and the remainder of their kingdoms became vassal states. The Greeks within the Seleucid Empire offered Tigranes the Seleucid crown in 83 BC, after which the Armenian empire reached as far south as modern Acre, Israel, resulting in a conflict with the Hasmoneans.
If Anatolia means "before Tolia", then where is Tolia? Does it have to do with Aetolia?
>>18118772>The first appearance of an Arsacid on the Armenian throne occurred in 12 when the Parthian king Vonones I was exiled from Parthia for his pro-Roman policies and Occidental manners. Vonones I briefly acquired the Armenian throne with Roman consent, but Artabanus II, incorrectly known as Artabanus III in older scholarship, demanded his deposition, and as Emperor Augustus did not wish to begin a war against the Parthians, he deposed Vonones I and sent him to Syria. Soon after the deposition of Vonones I, Artabanus II installed his son Orodes on the Armenian throne. Emperor Tiberius had no intention of giving up the buffer states of the eastern frontier and sent his nephew and heir Germanicus to the East. Germanicus concluded a treaty with Artabanus II in which he was recognized as king and friend of the Romans. >In 18, Armenia was given to Zeno, son of Polemon I of Pontus, who assumed the Iranian name Artaxias (a.k.a. Zeno-Artaxias). The Parthians under Artabanus II were too distracted by internal strife to oppose the Roman-appointed king. Zeno's reign was remarkably peaceful in Armenian history. Zeno is son of Polemon I, who was the first husband of Pythodoris, who was the second wife of Archelaus I.>After Zeno's death in 36, Artabanus II decided to reinstate an Arsacid on the Armenian throne, choosing his eldest son Arsaces I as a suitable candidate, but his succession to the Armenian throne was disputed by his younger brother Orodes, who had been overthrown by Zeno. Tiberius quickly concentrated more forces on the Roman frontier and once again after a decade of peace, Armenia was to become the theater of bitter warfare between the two greatest powers of the known world for the next 25 years.
>>18118830>Tiberius sent an Iberian, Mithridates, who claimed to be of Arsacid blood. Mithridates successfully subjugated Armenia to Roman rule and deposed Arsaces, inflicting huge devastation upon the country. Surprisingly, Mithridates was summoned back to Rome, where he was kept as a prisoner, and Armenia was given back to Artabanus II, who gave the throne to his younger son Orodes. Another civil war erupted in Parthia upon Artabanus II's death. In the meantime, Mithridates was put back on the Armenian throne, with the help of his brother, Pharasmanes I, and of Roman troops. Civil war continued in Parthia for several years, with Gotarzes eventually seizing the throne in 45. Note: Iberian here means Iveria, a province of a Georgian kingdom.>In 51, Mithridates's nephew Rhadamistus invaded Armenia and killed his uncle. The governor of Cappadocia, Julius Pailinus, decided to conquer Armenia but settled with the crowning of Rhadamistus, who generously rewarded him. Parthian King Vologases I saw an opportunity, invaded Armenia and succeeded in forcing the Iberians to withdraw from Armenia. The harsh winter that followed proved too much for the Parthians, who also withdrew, thus leaving open doors for Rhadamistus to regain his throne. After regaining power, according to Tacitus, the Iberian was so cruel that the Armenians stormed the palace and forced Rhadamistus out of the country, and Vologases I got the opportunity to install his brother, the first Arsacid king, Tiridates on the throne. Tiridates, who had previously been the leader of the Magi, likely played a significant role in promoting Zoroastrianism in Armenia.
>>18118834>Unhappy with the growing Parthian influence at their doorstep, Roman Emperor Nero sent General Gnaeus Domitius Corbulo with a large army to the east to install Roman client kings (see Roman–Parthian War of 58–63). After Tiridates I escaped, the Roman client king Tigranes VI was installed. In 61, he invaded the Kingdom of Adiabene, one of the Parthian vassal kingdoms.>Nero gave the crown to the last royal descendant of the kings of Cappadocia, the grandson of Glaphyra (daughter of Archelaus of Cappadocia) and Alexander of Judea (the brother of Herod Archelaus and the son of Herod the Great), who assumed the Armenian name Tigranes (his uncle was Tigranes V). His son, named Gaius Julius Alexander, married Iotapa, the daughter of Antiochus IV of Commagene and was made King of Cilicia. Nero was hailed vigorously in public for this initial victory and Corbulo was appointed governor of Syria as a reward. A guard of 1000 legionary soldiers, three auxiliary cohorts and two wings of horses were allotted to Tigranes in order to defend the country. Border districts were bestowed to Roman allies that assisted Corbulo including Polemon, Parasmanes, Aristobolus and Antiochus.Arameans:>The Arameans were not a single nation or group; Aram was a region with local centers of power spread throughout the Levant. That makes it almost impossible to establish a coherent ethnic category of "Aramean" based on extralinguistic identity markers, such as material culture, lifestyle, or religion. The people of Aram were called "Arameans" in Assyrian texts and the Hebrew Bible, but the terms "Aramean" and “Aram” were never used by later Aramean dynasts to refer to themselves or their country, except the king of Aram-Damascus, since his kingdom was also called Aram. "Arameans" is an appellation of the geographical term Aram given to 1st millennium BC inhabitants of Syria.
>>18118837Armenians:>Khorenatsi wrote that the word Armenian originated from the name Armenak or Aram (the descendant of Hayk). Khorenatsi refers to both Armenia and Armenians as Hayk‘ (Armenian: Հայք) (not to be confused with the aforementioned patriarch, Hayk).>Armenians call themselves Hay. The name has traditionally been derived from Hayk, the legendary patriarch of the Armenians and a great-great-grandson of Noah, who, according to Movses Khorenatsi (Moses of Khorene), defeated the Babylonian king Bel in 2492 BC and established his nation in the Ararat region. It is also further postulated that the name Hay comes from, or is related to, one of the two confederated, Hittite vassal states—Hayasa-Azzi (1600–1200 BC). Ultimately, Hay may derive from the Proto Indo-European words póti (meaning "lord" or "master") or *h2éyos/*áyos (meaning "metal").>It has also been speculated that the land of Ermenen (located in or near Minni), mentioned by the Egyptian pharaoh Thutmose III in 1446 BCE, could be a reference to Armenia.
>>18118843>Some have linked the name Armenia with the Early Bronze Age state of Armani (Armanum, Armi) or the Late Bronze Age state of Arme (Shupria). Armini, Urartian for "inhabitant of Arme" or "Armean country", referring to the region of Shupria, to the immediate west of Lake Van. The Arme tribe of Urartian texts may have been the Urumu, who in the 12th century BC attempted to invade Assyria from the north with their allies the Mushki and the Kaskians. The Urumu apparently settled in the vicinity of Sason, lending their name to the regions of Arme and the nearby lands of Urme and Inner Urumu. The location of the older site of Armani is a matter of debate. Some modern researchers have placed it in the same general area as Arme, near modern Samsat, and have suggested it was populated, at least partially, by an early Indo-European-speaking people. The relationship between Armani and the later Arme-Shupria, if any, is undetermined. Additionally, their connections to Armenians is inconclusive as it is not known what languages were spoken in these regions.>The controversial Armenian hypothesis, put forward by some scholars, such as Thomas Gamkrelidze and Vyacheslav V. Ivanov, proposes that the Indo-European homeland was around the Armenian Highland. This theory was partially confirmed by the research of geneticist David Reich (et al. 2018), among others. Similarly Grolle (et al. 2018) supports not only a homeland for Armenians on the Armenian highlands, but also that the Armenian highlands are the homeland for the "pre-proto-Indo-Europeans". A large genetic study in 2022 showed that many Armenians are "direct patrilineal descendants of the Yamnaya".They could just be borrowing the term, as the above quote says that Aram was just a name for the region, but Aramaeans and Armenians seem to have some connection. Aramaeans are extremely influential in the bronze age, and we see the Armenian Empire at its zenith just prior to Roman annexation and the story of Jesus.
>>18118851To add a little to this, Urartu and Ur/Uruk of Sumerian fame do seem to have somewhat of a connection. Total speculation on my part, however I am familiar with legends from the Alawites, that sometime in the 3rd millennium, some of them migrated out of Sumer/Babylon and back to their homeland which is approximately Armenia.
>>18118085Let's go back to this quote until this anon shows up again.>The Armenian church = Priesthood of Comana through Glaphyra, that acknowledged John the Baptist as new high priest, followed by Jesus as opposed to the Herod-collaborating PhariseesWho are Pharisees?>PərūšīmPerusim is the literal romanization.>"Pharisee" is derived from Ancient Greek Pharisaios (Φαρισαῖος), from Aramaic Pərīšā (פְּרִישָׁא), plural Pərīšayyā (פְּרִישַׁיָּא), meaning "set apart, separated", related to Hebrew Pārūš (פָּרוּשׁ), plural Pərūšīm (פְּרוּשִׁים), the Qal passive participle of the verb pāraš (פָּרַשׁ). It may refer to their separation from Gentiles, sources of ritual impurity, or from irreligious Jews.Alternatively, it may have a particular political meaning as "separatists", due to their division from the Sadducee elite, with Yitzhak Isaac Halevi characterizing the Sadducees and Pharisees as political sects, not religious ones. >Scholar Thomas Walter Manson and Talmud expert Louis Finkelstein suggest that "Pharisee" derives from the Aramaic words pārsāh or parsāh, meaning "Persian" or "Persianizer", based on the demonym pārsi, meaning 'Persian' in the Persian language, and further akin to Pārsa and Fārs. Harvard University scholar Shaye J. D. Cohen denies this, stating: "Practically all scholars now agree that the name "Pharisee" derives from the Hebrew and Aramaic parush or persushi."
>Juba II through his concurrent marriage with Glaphyra and Cleopatra Selene IIGoing back to Selene:> In the Kingdom of Pontus, there was a temple estate dedicated to Mēn Pharnakou and Selene at Ameria, near Cabira (Strabo 12.3.31). The temple was probably established by Pharnakes I in the 2nd century BC, apparently in an attempt to counterbalance the influence of the Moon goddess Ma of Comana. The cult of Mēn Pharnakou in Pontus has been traced to the appearance of the star and crescent motif on Pontic coins at the time.Selene is the female consort to Men, who is the head of Comana Pontica.Cleopatra Selene II of Mauretania bears her name, implying to me that maybe she was the priestess of this temple. Is is possible to be the priestess of a temple so far away from where you supposedly live?I suppose Selene is a goddess name used in several places, so it doesn't have to be the same one. It's just interesting. Selene is the moon goddess in greek.Glaphyra would have theoretically inherited the goddess role of Judea from her departed husband, the "psyoped" or adopted son of Herod, Alexander (as we explained earlier).So, by marrying both of these, Juba inherits the consort role for the moon queen of Egypt (Isis -> Selene) and the queen of Judea (Hasmonean Mariamne -> Alexander "son of Herod", the first husband of Glaphyra).
I tried following the references from the wikipedia article on Dyteutus, who is interesting because of his centrality as well as his death in 34 AD.Didn't get much from either book. It is interesting that the author definitely says from their perspective that such little is known about these guys. I wonder if I could dig through the Armenian history books and find more. I tried downloading Moses Chorene's History book, but it was fragmented and in a crappy format.
>>18119151That book was Anatolica by Ronald Syme.This book is Strabo's Cultural Geography.
>>18119171Dio Cassius, Histories:> While the senators were passing these decrees, Gaius sent for Ptolemy, the son of Juba, and on learning that he was wealthy put him to death and . . . This was an unexpected find. Certainly leaves a lot to the imagination.
Here's one problem with using Strabo as a source. He dies before the death of the guy we're looking for (historical Jesus). Obviously, he can set the stage, but something is missing.
>>18119151>DyteutusAnother reason I find this name interesting is that it reminds me of Dositheos.Dy = twoDosi = twoTeutus is sort of like TheosMaybe a massive stretch, but mentioning it anyway.
>ChryseChryse, Golden-One.XRÜSA Geography/Culture: Greek: Hellenic, from the Bosphorus.Linguistic Note: Greek from chi-rho-upsilon-sigma-epsilon-omega-nu, (Khruseon, or Chryseon), 1. golden, of gold, decked or inlaid with gold. 2. gold-coloured, golden-yellow. 3. metaphorically, golden. Related English words: chrysalis (from Greek chi-rho-upsilon plus -sigma-alpha-lambda-lambda-iota-sigma, (khru-sallis, or chry-sallis), the golden pupa of a butterfly; chrysanthemum (from Greek chi-rho-upsilon-sigma-alpha-nu-theta-mu-omicron-nu, (khrusanthemon), gold flower); chrysarobin (a medicine used to treat skin conditions); chrysolite (from Greek chi-rho-upsilon-sigma-omicron plus -lambda-iota-theta-omicron-sigma, (khruso-lithos), gold-stone).Description: Obscure archaic virgin and warlike Goddess of the metal gold, its refinement, and all that regarded as having great value or goodness; perhaps Eponym of the place Chryse; Matroness of all master-craftspeople, and especially of gold-smiths; perhaps Eponym of the place Chryse (near Troy).In Her mortalized form She came to stand for tender-hearted faithlessness. http://www.holladaypaganism.com/goddesses/cyclopedia/c/CHRYSE.HTMI know there's also this idea that "christ oil" is something else, like alligator oil or even bee's honey, which you symbolically anoint your king with. That may be true, but the name itself could derive from the color.
>>18119285Also, it seems like a perfect description of the "Golden Fleece". The Chryse. The Holy Grail. The Sang Real.I think all of this relates to the rites of Medea, like Ammon Hillman describes.In other words, whoever is priest-king of Comana might be considered the "Jason", if he watches over the Chryse, being the golden fleece.
>>18118340>>In Judaism, Melech Malchei HaMelachim ("the King of Kings of Kings") came to be used as a name of God. "King of Kings" (Ancient Greek: βασιλεὺς τῶν βασιλευόντων, romanized: basileùs ton basileuónton) is also used in reference to Jesus Christ several times in the Bible, notably in the First Epistle to Timothy and twice in the Book of Revelation. >>This is a bit of a detour, but I had suggested that this "king of kings" concept is more important than western historians let on.>>Basileus reminded me of something I read a long time ago about early English rulers.>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belinus>>Belinus was a legendary king of the Britons, as recounted by Geoffrey of Monmouth. He was the son of Dunvallo Molmutius and brother of Brennius and came to power in 390 BC. He was probably named after the ancient god Belenus.Just remembered something to add to this:>Apollonius was also a well-known figure in the Islamic world, being referred to by the name Balinus.
>>18119288More Chryse:>In Greek mythology, Chryses (/ˈkraJsiːz/; Greek, Χρύσης Khrýsēs, meaning "golden") was a Trojan priest of Apollo at Chryse, near the city of Troy. >According to a tradition mentioned by Eustathius of Thessalonica, Chryses and Briseus (father of Briseis) were brothers, sons of a man named Ardys (otherwise unknown). So, the priest-king of Comana Chryse was the personified Chryse, the son of Men (the male moon god), and also known as Apollonius in his many travels as a result.
>>18119318>More Chryse:shid nigga, that's all you had to say.Satine = Magdalenes mother, whom had a relationship with Kenobi (Pantera)but, as is custom in he SW universe, age swapping, gender swapping etc makes the universe PC and "totally made up fantasy". Korkie = conveniently aged to have a romance with Ahsoka, which makes no sense in the real world as Cleopatra Selene II would have been as old as Satine/Lady Magdala.However, this discrepancy is fitting as a storytelling easteregg, as Jesus would become the "bestie" of Satine's daughter. Effectively making Ahsoka x Korkie a genderswapped + timeline swapped nod towards Cleopatra Selene II's son Jesus ending up with Lady Magdala's daughter.If popculture adaptation tricknology grinds your gears, don't bother responding. threads been behaving so far.
>>18119506I had a couple half-written responses to the Star Wars idea, but I held off. The lack in most of these theories is not explaining who Vader is. In Star Wars, Luke is the golden boy hero, but he goes up against a reflection of himself, his father. Queue all of the gnostic shadow stuff.The real question is who is Vader. There is only one person that makes sense to me, and I admit that I had not figured him to be [[[the central guy]]], but it's Mark Antony.One way this gets interesting is that I've been highlighting several people who were allies with Antony who were executed or deposed as a result of his loss at Actium. So much stems around Actium, including Juba's rise.FWIW, Mark Antony had three children with Cleopatra VII, not to mention he had a larger extended family with nephews and such that were nobility in the east.- Cleopatra Selene II- Alexander Helios- Ptolemy PhiladelphusWe have talked about Cleopatra Selene II, but we've not talked about the others. We assume they just fade into obscurity.However, could it be that they were adopted by part of Antony's extended family and allies? Based on some stuff from this thread, I'm starting to think that could be a possibility.
>>18119543>>18119506Here's the other thing that has become apparent from this research.If you are Christian, you believe the Bible on the historicity of Christ, end of discussion.If you are not Christian and atheist, with no further knowledge, you'd probably assume the bible is myth and there was no historical Christ. Or maybe, you'd think he was a random guy who got way overhyped. In other words, you think there are zero candidates that could live up to the billing of the historical christ.If you study the history of the world from a non-Roman perspective, particularly along the periphery of the early Roman Empire, what you find are not zero potential historical christ options but several. This produces a different kind of problem.We can try to match lineages all we want to zero in on the story, and I have no doubt that it would be satisfying to arrive at a conclusion. However, I only say that in the hopes that we'd be able to work in reverse from discovering the historical christ to then discovering the historical purpose of christianity, which means we THEN understand the ideological movements occurring around the time that Rome became an empire, which is what most people seem to agree is the beginning of the current epoch. That's what all this is about, not just solving some random riddle.So again, I think the numerous potential guys creates a unique problem for us, but we may still be able to answer the general purpose of christianity without knowing which one. We can zero in on this answer from both directions, the genealogical and the political.
>>18119543>- Alexander Helios>- Ptolemy PhiladelphusBoth of these guys could have been fostered in Anatolia or Judea. Historians don't definitely say they were executed, which only lends credence in my mind to it because (a) there are political reasons to hide how some important person was actually a son of Mark Antony and Cleopatra, and (b) you'd think it would be public knowledge if they chose to execute them, so we'd have definite confirmation of it.>The fate of Alexander Helios is unknown. Plutarch, Cassius Dio and Suetonius state that Octavian killed Antony's son Marcus Antonius Antyllus and Cleopatra's son with Julius Caesar, Caesarion. The only further mention of Alexander Helios and Ptolemy Philadelphus comes from Cassius Dio, who states that when their sister, Cleopatra Selene II, married King Juba II [25 BC], Octavian (by then named Augustus) spared the lives of Alexander Helios and Ptolemy Philadelphus as a favor to the couple. After Helios arrives in Rome he disappears from historical records. There's also Caesarion, but if we're using Star Wars as scaffolding, that would mean Julius Caesar is Vader. This is legitimately possible too, but I'm not sure it fits as well.Alexander and Cleopatra Selene were twins, so their life arcs would roughly track.>In late 34 BC, at the Donations of Alexandria, Alexander Helios, aged six, was dressed in a Median costume and was given the title king of Kings and the ruler of Armenia, Media, Parthia and any countries yet to be discovered between the Euphrates and Indus RiversThe King of Kings is an important title that comes up again and again.>These areas were, in fact, already ruled by Artaxias II of Armenia (who had been elected King that same year after Antony captured his father Artavasdes II), Artavasdes I of Media Atropatene and Phraates IV of Parthia.All important contemporaries.
>>18119573>Alexander, son of Herod was born around 35 BC and died around 7 BC. His mother was the Hasmonean princess, Mariamne. How absurd would it be to say this could be the situation where Jesus is placed with Mary at a young age, and her husband is the "craftsman" (not carpenter), which is a pretty high position in gnostic religion (just below the ultimate god). I'm not sure why Herod would have done this, but I assume there's some leverage play. Alexander would have been under 10 years old when this happened.This Alexander of Herod marries Glaphyra, the moon princess of Cappadocia (some say Phoenician, some say Aaronite). They have three kids, one of whom is also called Alexander.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_(grandson_of_Herod_the_Great)>After the death of Herod in 4 BC in Jericho, Alexander and his brother decided to leave Jerusalem and to live with their mother and her family in Cappadocia. After Alexander and his brother arrived in Cappadocia, they disavowed their Jewish descent, deserted their Jewish religion and embraced their Greek descent, including the religion. However, the family connections to the Herodian dynasty were not wholly broken. After Alexander and his brother disavowed their Jewish descent, they were considered among fellow Jews as gentiles. There is a possibility that his maternal grandfather sent Alexander to be educated in Rome.>Little is known of the adult life of Alexander. He appeared to be an administrator for the extensive land estates in Egypt that were owned by the imperial family of Rome. He was a wealthy landowner in his own right, owing two estates in the Egyptian town of Euhemeria.
>>18119581https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigranes_V_of_ArmeniaThe brother of Alexander, "grandson of Herod", is Tigranes V of Armenia, who ruled Armenia from 6 to 12 AD and lived until 36 AD.>Artavasdes IV was King of Armenia but was an unpopular ruler. In 6 AD he was murdered by his subjects. After the death of Artavasdes IV, Augustus revised his foreign policy and appointed Tigranes as King of Armenia. Tigranes was accompanied by Archelaus and Tiberius to Armenia, where he was installed as King at Artaxata. Artaxata became Tigranes' capital. >After his time as king of Armenia, Tigranes remained in contention to reclaim his throne through to the first years of Roman Emperor Tiberius' reign. Around 18 AD Vonones I died. However, the kingdom of Armenia was given to Artaxias III.>Little is known about Tigranes' later life. His wife was the daughter of Pheroras, but they had no children.Adiabene, being just south of Armenia, would be a logical place for Tigranes V to escape to when he was deposed.Now, returning to Alexander the grandson of Herod:>Alexander married an unnamed noblewoman who bore him a son called Tigranes. Alexander named his son in honour of his brother.This is Tigranes VI.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigranes_VI_of_Armenia>Like his father and paternal uncle, Tigranes was an apostate to Judaism.>[His wife] Opgalli bore Tigranes at least two known children: a son Gaius Julius Alexander and a daughter Julia. Tigranes and his children were the last royal descendants of the kings of Cappadocia. This is ironic:>Tigranes invaded a neighbouring small vassal state of the Parthians called Adiabene and deposed their King Monobazes. That being said, I think the strength of the characters in the rest of this story (Armenia, Cappadocia, Pontus, Rome, Egypt) is enough that Adiabene is no longer a requirement to make the whole narrative fit.
>>18119597>Alexander was the second born son of Alexander and Glaphyra. His oldest brother was called Tigranes and had a younger unnamed sister. His father Alexander was a Judean prince, of Jewish, Nabataean and Edomite descent and was a son of the King of Judea, Herod the Great and his wife Mariamne. His mother Glaphyra was a Cappadocian princess, who was of Greek, Armenian and Persian descent. She was the daughter of the King Archelaus of Cappadocia and her mother was an unnamed princess from Armenia, possibly a relation of the Artaxiad dynasty. Alexander's name reflected his Hasmonean and Hellenic lineage. This is all just within Alexander grandson of Herod. We're still hitting all of the notes here, with Archelaus, Glaphyra, and Artaxiad nobility.So, the speculation that this is actually a son of Alexander Helios is unnecessary, but it explains perhaps some of the anti-Jewish sentiment as well as what connects this boy to greater Pontus (there were Antony loyalists there).Alternatively, if we stick with Archelaus and Glaphyra, we either have to just see them as the main people themselves, or we could stretch a little and say it's actually Ptolemy of Mauretania, the adopted son of Glaphyra. The former makes sense but might lack a little punch. The latter doesn't make sense in terms of time and space. It also lacks punch if we JUST say Jesus is the grandson of Antony or Caesar, because ultimately, so what? We're told Jesus had an illustrious bloodline. Where is the Christian movement coming from. Only Glaphyra, Chryse, and the orgiastic rites of Comana offer that.
>>18119573>Alexander and Cleopatra Selene were twins, so their life arcs would roughly track.Another Star Wars reference: What was Luke doing in the desert, saving Leia? Could that be Alexander Helios saving Cleopatra Selene from Juba II aka Jabba the Hut?
If you want to really stretch the narrative, we're talking about how one house (the Julio-Claudian dynasty) defeated three major contemporaries (Mithridates the Great of Pontus, Tigranes the Great of Armenia, and Mark Antony of Rome) and then consolidated their power in Europe for the next 2000 years. Supposedly the Dark Nobility comes from this same bloodline.And not only that, but there arose a child who descended from ALL of these bloodlines and commanded an international church that inspired the people to reject imperial authority. (Chryse-tianity).
>noooo, please stop talking about Juba II>he's totally jabba the hutt and not Vadert. some coping judeabooyou are aware that Star Wars is a parody of Frank Herbert, right? George is literally making fun of snowflakes who can't handle that DUNC is targeted jewslop meant to Herodize Juba II and belittle christianity. George does the humble approach of teabagging historyboos by placing Juba II where he obviously fits.
