So injuns could not domesticate any animals because "only the difficult species lived there" but even africans were able to domesticate camels. How is taming a fuckhuge quick camel easier than a fucking coyote or many other species that existed in americas before columbus.
>>18122156Indians in south America had Lamas and Alpacas. But the ones in the US absolutely raped the environment. It's ironic that the Indians were so hilariously environmentally destructive. It just only had 10,000 years of not being covered by ice sheets. I am sure they could have turned the plains into desert if given enough time.
>>18122156Why didn’t the Indians ride Coyotes?
>>18122426>you dumb niggerWhy was this necessary?
>>18122436Because i felt like it
Why didn't the Indians tame the racoon?
>>18122439Ok I guess.
>>18122156They had dogs
>>18122156The white man's disease wiped out 99% of their entire population. No, that's not an exaggerationwhat's more, is that the disease aimed precisely at the tribes who are civilized and have enough cultural and economic prowess to be worth the European tradersThe only ones who survived are the literal Abbos who survived precisely because of their hatred towards strangers and being incapable of proper trading
>>18122170This, plains Indians were literally abo tier. It's like comparing the Romans (Incans) with the Sami (Plains Indians).
>>18122705Show me the giant graves with these millions of dead then? You can cope and say that there was 150 million native Americans in the modern USA borders but there's literally ZERO archaeological evidence to suggest a population larger than a few million at any point. We have evidence and graves for tens of thousands in Meso America for the plague but scant more than tiny graveyards for the Indians in Canada or the US. Reminds me of the retarded Canadian drama about boarding homes having "massive" indian burial grounds from the abducted children taken there with decades spent to stop excavation, for when it was finally checked nearly every single one had zero natives and only dead nuns
>>18122725Bruh, there are entire writtings about how the pioneers saw great thriving cities with great trades to bootBut after just a decade, it's all gone. entire towns and cities vanish into forests precisely because the disease wiped them outLidar scans have made waves, showing how big their civilization truly wasThe white man never conquered the Americas. They inherited a post-apocalyptic society
>>18122737Show me this studies then, afaik that’s only in the Amazon, north American brush is not capable of destroying all traces of a civilization like the Amazon is. All we have in the north is tiny settlements that couldnt house a thousand let alone the millions claimed.
>>18122717All of the Indians in the continental United States were abo tier until they got horses. Tribes in California used to live in a state of constant starvation relying on roots and nuts of local trees when they couldn't fish enough. The ones in the southwest used to carve impressive villages and dwellings into the hillsides just to sleep exposed to the elements with little but a blanket. Then there's the retards who traded land in the east for wampum (worthless beads), guns, and whiskey.
>>18122750Here's oneNew research has indicated that disease didn’t spread among Native Americans until nearly 100 years after first European contact. When the diseases did hit, though, the impact was devastating- populations of Native Americans dropped from 6,500 to less than 900 people in the 18 villages the researchers used as their case study.Nearly 87% of the native population died between the years of 1620 and 1680. Not only did this have an incredible social impact, but an environmental one as well. As the population dropped off villages and other social spaces were reclaimed by nature. Forests grew where fields had once been cultivated and houses had once been lived in. Forest fires increased because of this regrowth in many parts of the US.>inb4 only 6500Dublin at this time is at 5000
>>18122762One tiny city still doesnt mean north America had tens to hundreds of millions as academia claims. And no one claims Ireland was anything but a shithole till the modern day
>>18122780There are entire towns in the UK that have yet to recover their population after the Black DeathIn fact, Europe never really recovered after the Black Death until 1900's>One tiny city still doesn't mean North America had tens to hundreds of millions, as academia claimsAmerica is HUUUGE.
>>18122725>>18122750You clearly haven't familiarized yourself with the testimony of early Americans concerning what they saw.They describe entire stone fortresses that are for the most part simply gone now. Things they had a hard time imagining the contemporary Indians building, because they didn't realize these were the survivors of an apocalypse.Entire necropolises, mound cities of the dead. IIRC Washington took note of these during his famous survey of the Ohio River Valley.Settlers had a habit of grave robbing, and destroying the mounds and plowing them over so that it would be easy to cultivate the land.Easily 95 percent of the mounds were destroyed, the colonists literally built their cities on preciously Indian sites.There are still a staggering amount left btw.There are stories from Maine of people using the red ochre that ran out of the ground as paint for their porches. Sometimes, excavators chew through a plot of land and gouts of blood red liquid gush out of the ground. That red ochre is from burial grounds that they had built on top of.To this very day private land owners routinely destroy ancient stone monuments, there's an account of one man who tore into a huge ceremonial stone mound with excavation equipment despite local Indians begging him not to. He simply though he could do what he liked with his land, and wanted it gone.He did serious damage before he realized how retarded he was and stopped. Apologized to the Indian reps afterwards. Can't find it now, he was from Connecticut IIRC. Learned about this incident when I was rabbitholeing a few years back.The state governments of NE have no interest in recognizing these structures as legitimately Indian, even though it's obvious they are.Most of the archaeological evidence was destroyed, so many bodies and bones disappeared into Smithsonian trash dumpsters, or artifacts in the hands of private collectors.
>>18122910Literally yakubian tier nonsense
https://www.annistonstar.com/news/oxford/burying-history-workers-begin-destruction-of-indian-site-in-oxford/article_1a0a4324-b781-5052-9054-897a50d6a940.htmlAccording to the Alabama Historical Commission's deputy state historic preservation officer the hill contains a stone mound American Indian site, the largest of its kind in the state.Not for long. On Wednesday a piece of heavy equipment ripped dirt off the hill. It resembles a Mohawk on a bald head, a cluster of trees sticking up from the top of the bare red clay....The site is at least 1,500 years old according to Harry Holstein, Jacksonville State University professor of archaeology and anthropology. It was constructed during what is known as the Woodland era. Brown said it is the largest of its kind in the state.Workers will use the dirt as fill material for a Sam's Club near the Oxford Exchange, Denney said.The contract for the removal, according to Denny, is part of the $2.6 million Oxford CDA contract that went to Oxford-based Taylor Corp....Holstein said the hill contains artifacts from the Woodland era."We discovered the site in 1996 and it is typical of a lot of other stone structure sites and mounds we've investigated," Holstein said "It tends to be Indian ceremonial and Indian burial mounds."...Smith said he is not worried about finding remains there. But, for the sake of argument, if bodies are found he said the city won't alter its plans."We want to take care of people's remains," Smith said. "That can be moved. What it's going to be is more prettier than it is today.">>18122917Your kind makes me sick.Truly disgusting.
>>18122780>academiathere are first and second hand accounts of both spanish and colonial explorers/surveyors speaking of massive Mississippian settlements. its not surprising they arent here anymore as most of their structures were largely mud built and wood. fuck man of course the seminoles, for example, dont have any extant structures. houseboats dont last for 400 years lol
WHY would you ever domesticate animals is the real question
>>18122717the sami are kino thobeit
>>18123039Doggo goes woof woof.
>the difficult species lived thereYou mean like wild horses and camels? Which literally evolved in north America before spreading into Eurasia?Well, they got extincted after modern humans arrived during the Ice Age, probably due to a combination of hunting and the catastrophic end of the Ice Age.
>>18123220american antelope are adapted to outrunning american cheetah that don't exist anymore so they're really fast for no reason
>>18123229That's the pronghorn IIRC.They can go real fast, but fences are their kryptonite because they can't jump for shit.
>>18122725bones decompose dumbass... actual fucking retards on this board
>>18122725apparently it was so bad they just dropped dead and nobody buried them
>>18123581Soil acidity is truly arcane mystery knowledge to most posters on this site.Forget Dewitt Clinton's presentation to the New York Historical Society on the ancient stone fortifications dotting that state alone, they'll just deny that ever happened at all.
>>18123588>Dewitt Clinton's presentation to the New York Historical SocietyAs a foreinger I've never looked in to him and I gotta say, as the kids say, holy based.>There is a strong propensity in the human mind to trace up our ancestry as to high and as remote a source as possible; and if our pride and our ambition cannot be gratified by a real statement of facts, fable is substituted for truth, and the imagination is taxed to supply the deficiency. /his/ pre-emptively blown the fuck out by 200 years.
>>18123629Damn son, that cuts deep.Real shit, some things never change.
>easier than a fucking coyote or many other species that existed in americas before columbus.You know mesoamericans had shitloads of dogs right? You literally could only get into aztec heaven if you were kind to dogs
>>18123847They had the original hairless dog breed too, I believe?
>>18123853Xoloitzcuintli. Dogs were originally bred for eating but dog consumption in mesoamerica was on a regular downward trend throughout their history as they began to love and appreciate them more and more
>>18122750>north American brush is not capable of destroying all traces of a civilization like the Amazon isdude we literally just discovered a lost maya city of 30-50,000 LAST YEAR, and its universally agreed upon that theres tons of other hidden cities out there in the jungle. Even outside of the jungle mexico is absolutely packed with unexcavated ruins
>>18122156What were they going to domesticate deer and bears? Everything in the New World is a mega predator or prey animal without much in between that would be of use to humans. Maybe a coyote, but a wolf, or panther, or bear would just eat it. Elk, Moose and Antelope don't seem to do well with domestication anywhere either. Maybe caribu/reigndeer, but that's about it. Ancient Anatolia seemed to be the sweet spot that had wild sheep, cows, horses and canines. From there, they could be taken to the rest of the world slowly, but surely.
>>18123039>reliable food source>more power (strength and speed) available for work>other benefits (dogs senses, wool)
>>18123895Europeans had no problem domesticating pigeons, and turkeys got their name from Turks selling them in large numbers. Aurochs became cows, there's no reason buffalo were out of reach. Deer aren't any harder to catch than goats or pigs, and would presumably be useful for similar reasons. They already had dogs, but wolves, coyotes, and foxes are all domesticable and useful. Mountain lions are a bit much unless you're committed to it, but there's bobcats and such if they wanted mousers or trackers or companions.Llamas and alpacas are known to be insolent little shits, but they were still worth it. Clearly animals don't need to be perfect to be worth the trouble, but most of the natives don't seem to have bothered.
>>18123949>and turkeys got their name from Turks selling them in large numbers.Turkeys are native to the Americas.
>>18123025>the SpanishEgregious liars whose "firsthand accounts" are worth less than the paper they're written on. They claimed Tenochtitlan was this grand metropolis when it was barely 1/4 the size of downtown Mexico City. They also tried to frame Aztec sacrifice as some holohoax tier shit in the name of moloch. In reality they just treated enemy soldiers like cattle and the excavated skull racks that were found have numbered less than a few hundred. It's all just spic bullshit that was meant to butter up the King and get funding/support instead of admitting they found some mud huts.
>>18123963Hence my point that the natives could have domesticated them but didn't. After being exported back to Europe, some of them were shipped all the way to the Turks, as they were known as expert bird breeders. Apparently this was correct, as they became known as Turkish Birds, or simply Turkeys, on account of being routinely sold from there.
>>18123968>natives could have domesticated them but didn'tIdk really depends on what you mean by domesticated, large pens of human supported meat animals were super common, they contained boar, deer, turkeys, guinea pigs, iguanas, lots of things
>>18123968mexicans had domesticated turkeys, multiple species.
>>18123967>They claimed Tenochtitlan was this grand metropolis when it was barely 1/4 the size of downtown Mexico CityYeah?Ancient and medevial cities were way smaller then modern ones. Tenochtitlan's area as shown via archeology and colonial period maps have it at 13.5 square kilometers, around the same area that Rome's walls surrounded. That's big for the time period.>In reality they just treated enemy soldiers like cattle and the excavated skull racks that were found have numbered less than a few hundred.Spanish accounts of sacrifices are absolutely exaggerated to a degree, but the Great Skull rack was excavated over the past decade and it seems to have held around ~16,000 skulls, not including the two adjacent skull towers. The few hundred number you gave is just the number of recovered/studied skulls from one of the two towers. Again, though, this is much smaller then what the Spanish claimed, who had the rack held 80,000-136,000 skullsSaying they treated enemy soldiers like cattle is also probably too harsh a phrasing, captured enemy soldiers were integrated into the captor's family, and while surely to a degree that's romanticized and the relationship wouldn't have been all rosy, the Skull rack excavations do show victims were well cared for and foreign ones lived in Tenochtitlan for months of years prior to their sacrifice.
>>18123949Deers were present in several Mediterranean and North Sea islands where they had to be taken by humans. Not domesticated but certainly tamed. Same case with foxes and maybe martens and badgers
