So.. we all agree that Atlantis likely existed right?
>>18130118I want to believe.
No. Plato made it up as an allegory for his idealised Athens defeating a much more powerful enemy. Hence why not a single Greek author or historian mentions Atlantis prior to him even though it would be a major event in their history>but..but the secret Egyptians told him!!!Ok, post Egyptian writings on Atlantis that predate Plato.
>>18130123Atlantis was doggerland
>>18130123>Plato made it upDid he make up Socrates too?
>>18130123Defeating the sea peoplea.Atlantis is just a romantization of the sea peoples who invaded the greek cities thousands of years before.Plato made up Atlantis because he wanted to give a place of origin for these peoples, since nobody knew who they were or were they came from.
>>18130135Pretty much come to this conclusion as well.
>>18130135>>peoplea*peoples>>were*whereSorry for the grammatical mistakes
>>18130127>doggerlandWas a frozen howling tundra.Atlantis was in Sundaland.
>>18130224
>>18130129Yes, possibly. Hence why we have no writings from Socrates himself anywhere.
>>18130127That's really fucking stupid
>>18130123>Hence why not a single Greek author or historian mentions Atlantis prior to himHis first step is telling you about the Athenians that spoke about it before him. Are you stupid?
>>18130225
>>18130235Name these Athenians.
>>18130242
>>18130245
>>18130243If you don't know about Solons gramps you don't belong in the thread.
>>18130248And where can we see what Solons gramps wrote about Atlantis?
https://web.archive.org/web/20110524184401/http://www.atlantisquest.com/Writings.html
>>18130118Atlantis was and remains the oldest American civilizations. They WERE greater before. They sailed over to the old world and invaded ancient Egypt. Then they stopped sailing over to the old world.
>>18130262>had no writing from Solons gramps
>>18130230Oh no. He's retarded
>>18130299Please post Socrates own writings.
>>18130263Atlantis was really proto-colonial Europe if you think about it
>>18130303Very few first hand inscriptions survive. Parchment, paper, vellum and all the rest of it only lasts a few centuries typically. It all has to be written by someone else, or responded to by someone else in this case.
>>18130230So was Jesus fake then?
>>18130310>doesn't post a single work from Socrates himselfOk
>>18130316Actually Socrates existed and Plato didn't. Plato was written by Socrates, and because he was vilified by the Athenian courts he instead wrote in the voice of Plato to avoid damnatio memoriae.Of course, a simpler explanation would be that since the Athenian courts were after him that he would not have had writings survive since they came after him for heresy and moral corruption. But that's an obvious example that you haven't seemed to figure out so we'll go with something more flavorful this time.
>>18130118>we all agree some magic city with no evidence besides the story where it's used as a literary device existedUh no?
>>18130321>The Athenians destroyed all of Socrates works>They didn't bother to destroy any of Platos works where he lays out what Socrates said and how great it isAbsolutely desperate cope. I win.
>>18130326>>They didn't bother to destroy any of Platos works where he lays out what Socrates said and how great it isThat's right. He wasn't convicted so he was untouchable.
>>18130330So they didn't find Socrates works that objectable or subject to damnatio memoriae then. I win again.
>>18130331They would have had to make a legal case against Plato, which never manifested. Since it was Socrates through Plato's mouth, they would have had to make a back-to-back conviction, which was often unpopular. You don't know much about court systems in general I take it.
Until somebody fines a ruin in the Atlantic Ocean that resembles the city, I'm going to say no, Atlantis as described by Plato did not exist and never existed. There are no other sources that corroborate Plato's claims, either, so we don't really have much to go off of. Single source claims are difficult to prove without physical evidence.
>>18130369>Single source claims are difficult to prove without physical evidence.So if two people said it, it would be authentic?
>>18130118Yes, its just pre Noah's flood civilization.
Randall Carlson will go searching for Atlantis near the Hispanic isles this november.There is a good theory it was there.
>>18130382Noah never existed.
>>18130338>he says, spouting headcanon to justify why there is not a single thing written by Socrates himselfWas Xenophon in on this as well? Or was Socrates also Xenophon?
>>18130378It'd be more less anomalous, and the claims would likely contain different details that could be compared. Two claims is still very little but it would at least indicate the idea wasn't something Plato just made up, if one could prove the second claim either came before him or was not connected to him at all.
>>18130415Could you explain your new theory please?
>>18130417How many would you need without direct evidence? Just curious. Not prodding, just taking a poll hereFor me it's three
>>18130421Depends on the evidence. Three totally separate claims which overlap somewhat in their detail, and which were not made in knowledge of one another, would be compelling evidence IMO. It would suggest there is definitely something to the claim, that three separate sources would make it, and would have some similar details to one another, while likely unaware of the other claims. This would suggest, at the very least, an origin to the claim and the myth of Atlantis which predates known sources.
https://atlantipedia.ie/samples/a-z-listing/
>>18130470>>18130474Not beyond the Pillars of Heracles.
>>18130118No. There is zero evidence.
>>18130560>Not beyond the Pillars of Heracles.A post from a pleb who can't comprehend what a myth is and how it may have basis in real events. Plato couldn't define a human let alone be accurate in geography.
>>18130118Is there any actual evidence that Atlantis existed
>>18130578>just throw out the bits that don't fit my theoryNo. Plato is very specific. Once you start claiming he made up some of it, he made up all of it.
>>18130587>No. Plato is very specific. Once you start claiming he made up some of it, he made up all of it.OK, "human".
>>18130599>yes, he made up this part, but all the rest is 100% trueTragic levels of cope.
>>18130634>Tragic levels of cope.
>>18130118>existedSome parts of it are still above water.
>>18130693>he thinks Diogenes existedNGMI
>>18130700>NGMI
>>18130118Yes.Where it was located is another matter. The most plausible candidate is now-submerged land around the Tartessos region. More fancifully, the Azores or Mauretania.A lot of Atlantis discussion is warped by trying to justify a high civilisation resembling our own. That wasn't what Atlantis was. It wasn't a flobe-spanning empire either.It was relatively advanced for the time, boasting maritime and megalithic construction capabilities, but they weren't whizzing around in flying cars or whatever. They probably used stone spears and weapons like other peoples (although less crude) and the extent of their physical presence was limited to critical junctures of the Mediterranean, mostly for trade purposes, not Roman-style occupations.
>>18130242we wuz indooz n shiieet
>>18130719>they weren't whizzing around in flying cars or whatever. They probably used stone spears and weapons like other peoplesThat's a great point. The most advanced technology Plato said they had was stainless metals. In 9600 BC having any metals would be fairly advanced but especially those that don't weather and oxidize like untreated iron.
>>18130135But the Sea People were defeated by Egyptians, not Greeks
>>18130118No.Look the only primary source which ever references Atlantis was Plato, who would consistently make up narratives to portray on of his philosophical or ideological concerns.You know how the only account of Atlantis ends?Atlantis, owner of basically the whole world, sends a huge invasion force to ancient Athens (which is portrayed as being identical to Sparta) and then Atlantis loses. Somehow.Then the gods destroy Atlantis for being degenerate.If you think this means Atlantis was a real place, would you also believe that there were guys locked up in a cave looking at nothing but shadows on the wall their whole lives? Because it's the same fucking thing.It's a parable, not history.
>>18130135>Atlantis is just a romantization of the sea peoples who invaded the greek cities thousands of years before.This is a really terrible theory because Plato makes no effort whatsoever to connect the two groups.
>>18130923>Then the gods destroy Atlantis for being degenerateRace mixing lmao, no wonder numales hate this story.>It's a parable, not history.This is a mind bogglingly stupid thing to say. We call Plato's parables that because he explicitly tells you what is historical and which is parable and he does nothing but present Atlantis as history. Plato even promotes his view of the study of history doing it.
>>18130936>this is history>based on secret documents from Solon>no wait, it is secret information that an Egyptian told me!Cope.
>>18130947Regardless of how you feel about it, Plato clearly and explicitly felt it was real history. You need to learn the skill of entertaining an idea and adopting the perspectives of other people.
>>18130951>clearly
>>18130952Exactly right. That's why he gives the version of how the story is related, insists that the original sources insisted it was true, then goes through a whole argument on cyclical destructions in Earth's historical record.
>>18130964>the original sources that I just made up say all of this is trueCope.
>>18130969Again, it doesn't matter how *you* feel about it, Plato argued that it was a historical fact and used it to propose a version of history where humanity becomes limited by apocalyptic episodes and bottleneck periods. You're simply not very bright.
>>18130976>Plato said it was real so I'm going to uncritically believe him>You are stupid if you don't
>>18130951>entertaining an idea and adopting the perspectives of other peopleThis is why transwomen are women. You need to see Xir perspective.
>>18130905It's plausible there was metallurgy, but I err against it until there's proof.A civilisation like Atlantis, if it really existed, would likely have been advanced in ways of esoteric knowledge and mystical insight as opposed to material technology.
Last three posts are insanely shit.
>>18131004Transwomen are women. Plato would agree.
>>18130991If you want to deconstruct him then do so in historical terms. Your first argument went from "it was a parable" to "he was lying". It's clear that, for whatever reason, you hate the idea of it being historical so obviously whatever you say isn't reflective of his material or content but your own passive-aggressive attitude toward him. If you want to actually deconstruct Plato then argue against his point otherwise you just come off like just another internet asshole. I'm not even sure why the idea is so fundamentally offensive to you.
>>18130129>Did he make up Socrates too?No, Socrates was made up by Xenophon and borrowed by Plato.
>>18131024The historical terms being noone, absolutely noone, talked about Atlantis until he did. Even though Athens defeating Atlantis would be a massive event in their history and they'd mention it constantly. Yet it doesn't. Because he made it up and also made up that there's secret documents that show the real history, just like GURM did 2000 years later.
>>18130991Here's the esoteric pill you're not ready for:Plato was a leaker of hidden occult knowledge. Not just in terms of his philosophy (which underpins various esoteric systems), but in terms of history too. Atlantis is deliberately occulted knowledge that the powers that be want kept hidden. Ape-derived evolutionism, Out-of-Africa and the idea civilised human history started circa 3,000 BC is the "safe" narrative served up to people like slop to deter knowledge of human origins and our latent capabilities.Whether you want to believe me or not is on you. I won't spoonfeed you. But if you choose to pursue this line of study further then this will all make sense to you.
>>18131051>The historical terms being noone, absolutely noone, talked about Atlantis until he didThis is already explained: the story had to come from the Egyptians because they were spared total destruction by natural cataclysms.>Even though Athens defeating Atlantis would be a massive event in their history and they'd mention it constantlyThis is already explained: Athenians were a different people prior to their time of settling in the Bronze Age Collapse. If you read Thucydides, which obviously you haven't, he recalls that history was lost and it was a chaotic time. If you read Herodotus, which obviously you haven't, he recalls that Athenians travelled with the Pelasgians to their later location where Greece is today.
>>18131063>come from the Egyptians because they were spared total destruction by natural cataclysms.Then it shouldn't be a problem to list the Egyptian texts and authors and historians who talk avoid Atlantis prior to Plato?
Note how earlier today, Platos source was Solons gramps but now the source can ONLY be Egyptians because all other sources got destroyed?
>>18131045ngmi
>>18130135honestly the theory that Atlantis is based off the Minoans made more sense to me.
>>18131129Neither Crete or Thira are beyond the Pillars of Heracles.
>>18130312could be lmao
>>18130118The time of Plato writing about Atlantis coincides with the massive earthquake that reversed the flow of the Indus river. I say that Atlantis was the Indus river civilization and the flooding of their major city is the source of the Atlantis myth. In fact, it's obvious to anyone not retarded.
>>18131209Ah yes, the Indus, famously beyond the Pillars of Heracles.
>>18131214Ah yes, nothing of consequence could ever happen in India. Of course, poojeets etc
>>18130694>AzoresEven when sea levels were at their lowest, the Azores would have still been tiny islands incapable of supporting a large population.Clearly the tale of "Atlantis" was based on the earliest civilization (which didn't have lazers and shit, just the first to make pottery, farm and build permanent structures) and that would have most likely been Sundaland, which had the geography and climate to produce the first civilization.Plato is irrelevant, as the info came to him second-hand via the Egyptians, who themselves got it second-hand, etc.
>>18131265You're overlooking isostatic and ecstatic effects, which could have altered the elevation of the plates by up to 1,000ft.Sundaland conforms more with Lemuria, if it was anything.If we accept the possibility for history beyond the "official" record then we can entertain there having been multiple civilisations/proto-civilisations at various points in various locations. There's no need to equate every single one with Atlantis, which was clearly within an Atlantic/Mediterranean context.
>>18131279Eustatic*
>>18131279>isostatic and ecstatic effectsDoesn't apply to the Azores.
>>18130224Mackem bastards weren’t Atlantis mate
>>18130118It was Minoan Crete.God nuked it because they tortured children. Caphtor/Keftiu was tied to the Hyksos of Avaris(the Israelites) around the eighteenth dynasty and the Israelites had to be de-paganed from this contact (which was bad enough the Hyksos palaces contained Minoan frescoes) by God in the wilderness. The Philistines were from Keftiu and the Bible (not just the Theseus mythos) implicitly accuses them of child vore. (Psalm 27 referencing Goliath, God promising to remove "the abominations from between their teeth.")King David converted a few of their tribe and brought them back as soldiers (the Cherethites and the Pelethites.)The remnant of the Philistines were supposed to become a remnant for God in prophecy like Egypt and Assyria and they all converted to Christianity (NOT the Catholic variety.) This is predicted in the Old Testament and possibly has implications concerning the identity of Messiah the Son of David since none of these countries heavily converted to Judaism- just Christianity. If you're not religious this is all probably less interesting. I believe it was Pellegrino who postulated the "darkness that can be felt" during the Exodus could be volcanic ash from the Santorini eruption, and nuking the homeland Philistia and ruining Egypt while delivering His people would fit with His theme (so overt in the Flood and Sodom) of delivering the faithful people while judging the others.
>>18131351Of course it does. Where do you think all the melted ice went?
>>18130123>Hence why not a single Greek author or historian mentions Atlantis prior to him even though it would be a major event in their history atlantis isn't real but this is retarded
>>18131265The Atlantic ocean takes its name from Atlantis. Your south east asian fantasies are on the wrong side of the planet.>>18131279correct
>>18130118Atlantis was antarctica before the ice
>>18132477>it's retarded that not a single Greek author mentioned a major event in Greek history prior to Plato
>>18132551>The Atlantic ocean takes its name from AtlantisThe fucking state of this shithole...
>>18130135Sea Peoples were Greeks though except for Shekelesh and Shardana who were from Sicily/Sardinia
>>18132569it is! there are loads of such things who's existence is known only due to one surviving source, no matter how important. if you study mesoamerica, for instance, you see this all the time. sources are sparce and the important stuff only survives by a miracle of preservation. your heuristic is retarded, it cannot be depended upon. Certainty requires more careful thinking.
>>18132683Ancient Greece is not Mesoamerica my guy. If SOLON knew about it (or was it secret Egyptians, he can't keep his story straight) it would be a major part of Athenian history. But it isn't. Not even one mention. Until the guy known for allegory and parable brings it up...
>>18132572don't feel bad. the indians have a legend about when the white gods enslaved the native monkey people to make them build a bridge to Sri Lanka. Pretty cool imho, no reason to try and claim you monkey types are from atlantis though because it was on the other side of the planet.
>>18132705What the fuck are you babbling about?
>>18131072It is, because Muslims and Christians took turns destroying Egyptian libraries. Other Greek authors reference list Egyptian works too.
>>18132813So you don't have any Greek authors who even casually mention Atlantis before Plato and no Egyptian authors who mention Atlantis at all? Cool. Cool.
>>18131209Supposing there was a geological event that happened worldwide, why then would you connect it to India? We would expect geological events all over the world at that time. And indeed there were through deglacialization. You're getting greedy again. Not everything has to do with the subcontinent. >>18132074>Hyksos of Avaris(the IsraelitesNow that's an insane take. Hyksos had nothing to do with Iudaeans, as they would not exist for quite some time. >>18132565Antarctica has been under ice for quite a while though. >>18132572That would make more sense, given that they're both named after Atlas. Atlas has more to do with Atlantis than the Atlantic ocean. >>18132578>except for Shekelesh and Shardana who were from Sicily/SardiniaAlso Greek>>18132689>it would be a major part of Athenian historyThat's explained in the opening section. If you still haven't read it then you need to catch up because everyone is on lap 7 and you still haven't crossed the line once.>>18132820If Plato said the Holocaust happened and Hitler was bad that would be enough for me.
>>18132820>noone else mentioning it is proof that my secret Egyptians (or was it secret documents from Solon?) are right!
>>18132840Meant for >>18132835
Solon got the story from Egypt - how do you not know this by now? Just read the damn thing ffs. What do you win by being willfully retarded
>>18132835>sicily/sardinia>also greek>in 1200 BCare you sure?
https://www.atlantis-scout.de/atlantis-kilian-fleischer-engl.htm
>>18132572Officially, the etymology is unknown.It's called by Herodotus (before Plato) the "Sea of Atlantis", not "Atlantic".
>>18132569>>18132683>>18132689The Athenian part of the story was nationalist embellishment by Plato. Not everything in Plato's account is factual. He uses the real history of Atlantis as a kind of set dressing for presenting his philosophy.
>>18133275>No, see, he made up this part as a nationalist embellishment but the rest of it is true!Cope.
>>18133238Meaning sea of Atlas you fucking retard.
>>18133238Did this anon forget that there are still pillars of Atlas between Morocco and Mexico, and that different tribes named Atlandes once occupied the same area?
>>18130129>Did he make up Socrates too?No, Socrates is mentioned in the contemporary plays of Aristophanes>KKKRGKek
>>18133296>pillars of AtlasMount Atlas*Pillars of Hercules*
>>18133297Dionysus confirmed to be real. He's mentioned in a play by Aristophanes, ergo, real.
>>18133303There was a real man named Dionysus.
I think the Atlanteans were a mythologized account of the sea peoples that Plato re-wrote from Egyptian accounts.It's ironic to imagine hearing mythical tales about people named "Westuhnuhus" and being fascinated by them to the point of deciding to write a tale about how "Westunus" is a model for white people in a nationalistic fervor.
>>18133313>>18133296>Americans destroy Iraq allying with the Kuwaitis>Iraqis develop mythology about Al-Basra people(you are here)>Abatura tales become major political motivation behind Iraqi military fervor>An American philosopher visits and hears this bastardized account of Americans and Kuwaitis that were made into Abatura tale>Iraqi goat herder says:>>Abatura lived beyond the gulf sea, they had superhuman weapons and they had big giant racist democracy>Writes a white-nationalist book about Abatura that Allah once destroyed with big flood>It becomes a major philosophical work
>>18133290No reason for thinking that. He explicitly says "Sea of Atlantis", referring to a proper noun in the style of being named after a location.
>>18133311Citation desperately needed.Also>manPrepare to be rended.
>>18133339A location like say the Atlas mountains?
>>18133311Dio means Zeus in Greek, Dionysus was Zeus of Nyssa; he became a separate god later.>>18133339In Herodotus, Atlas and Atlantis are exchangable, bot refer to North Africa (or roughly west of Egypt).
Atlanteans were white
>>18133343>>18133344In that case it would have been "Sea of Atlas". "Atlantis" is a separate construction.
>>18133547Well that just goes without saying
>>18133686It is sea of Atlas.
>>18133686Atlas also exists as mountains in literal North Africa, I literally posted a map, you have eyes to read a map, right?
>>18130224>Was a frozen howling tundra.nope
>>18131062that make sensehe was not only one and we get some of them even in modern times
In Aegean Sea, islands are the tops of mountains from a great land that had sunk into the Mediterranean. This is the likely basis for the Atlantis story
>>18133733The Aegean isn't beyond the pillars of Heracles.
>>18133737>The Aegean isn't beyond the pillars of Heracles.thats what throws people away. Its in Aegean not the Atlantic
>>18131265I don't think you understand how profoundly impactful the world's first agricultural civilization (not just the first agricultural peoples, civilization) in would have been. Sundaland sinking would have done very little to occult their influence. Especially considering the sinking ocurred across decades or centuries.
>>18133737Where is the Pillars of Hercules do you think? The Romans said to the west, pouring into the west sea yes, but the Greeks said Pontus was beyond it, which is the Crimea.
>>18133796The Aegean isn't beyond Pontus either.
>>18133801>The Aegean isn't beyond Pontus either.The Aegean islands(pre submersion) is the real Atlantis, probably dating back to 10,000 BC. Geologists claim it happened millions of years ago but the catastrophe was a recent phenomenon
>>18133939Your post isn't even coherent.
>>18133939>the place explicitly described as beyond the Pillars of Heracles, is a place that is not beyond the Pillars of Heracles.
>>18133951>>the place explicitly described as beyond the Pillars of Heracles, is a place that is not beyond the Pillars of Heracles.>>18133947>Your post isn't even coherent.The Minoan and other great civilizations are direct descendants of lost Atlanteans. And some of these Atlanteans went to Egypt to start a new civilization there. Its the same Atlantis civilization breaking up. Civilizations dont start by themselves in remote parts of world anon
>>18133967Medication. Now.
>>18133975>Medication. Now.call anyone who questions the current thinking names. This is what this place is, like Reddit.If you think civilization just sprouted out of existance at random places across the world without no relation between them, there is no bigger retard than you
>>18134733Why not cry about it little bitch?
>>18134740>Why not cry about it little bitch?i dont give a shit what a christcuck thinks. The story of Atlantis and how it dissipated into different corners of the world after the catastrophe is far more beautiful story than the jewish rabbi you worship
>>18133707"Atlas" and "Atlantis" are two separate terms. If it was "Sea of Atlas" they would have called it "Sea of Atlas". Herodotus explicitly uses the term "Atlantis".>>18133710I'm aware. But that's the word "Atlas", not "Atlantis".We could also turn this on its head and make the case the North African Atlantes were downstream of Atlantis. Perhaps they're echoes of the Atlantean Empire's presence in North Africa, as Plato claims?
>>18130135One of many "Aryan Invasions" in History. It really was and the best part is watching """Modern Academics""" try to tip toe around the fact that it was good ol' IEs rekking mofos at will just like they've done a thousand times Past and Present. This was the beginning of many future invasions and conquests of Egypt by the descendants of the "Sea Peoples" including the Persians, Alexander, Ptolemy, Rome, America, Napoleon, etc.....so much for being "le greatest civilization of all time" considering that have a zero game win streak against White peoples. Many such cases.
>>18130225These maps make me sad. People always live near the coast, but so many old coastlines and landmasses are underwater now and countless towns, cities and other creations have been lost. You can also see the opposite at places like Troy today. It used to be a "port city" that boats could pull right up to and unload their goods, but now the bay has silted in and the ocean is miles away. ......so it goes.
>>18130230No, we have many records of "real Socrates" in real life. The earliest is "Anabasis" where a sassy young Socrates is soldier along side Xenophon. Socrates was also mentioned and written about by many of his contemporaries, as well. None of the "greats" ever wrote anything down: Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus, Socrates, etc....etc....we have absolutely nothing in their own hand despite the fact that all of them were highly literate. Of course, this is precisely why they endure. People can speculate endlessly without ever being proven wrong. If we had real documents from real people. Nobody would care even if they said the exact same things.
>>18130560There are/were many "Pillars of Hercules"(Herakles, Melqart) all over the Ancient world. Even the jews ripped them off with Jacquin & Boaz outside their temple......to Melqart/Heracles as described by Alexander during his conquest of """Tyre""".
>>18130420Xenophon had written Socrates saved his life at the battle of Delium. He saved Alciabades life as well. It is sus. Xenophon would have been a child according to most scholars during the time frame of this battle. But it is possible and maybe misinterpreted somewhere.
