There is no afterlife, and deep down most people already know this but can't handle it. Your consciousness isn't some magical soul floating around, it's literally just neurobiological processes firing in your brain. When your brain stops, you stop. Period. We're complex meat computers and when the hardware fails there's no software backup to the cloud. Philosophers love dancing around this with ontological gymnastics and vitalist cope about consciousness transcending the physical, but it's all just elaborate denial. Science tells us we came from inanimate matter and we'll return to it. Freud was right that the aim of all life is death, a return to that inorganic state we borrowed ourselves from for a cosmically brief moment. In 4.5 billion years the sun dies and takes all trace of human thought with it, and the universe won't even notice we were here. No part of "you" persists because there is no "you" separate from the physical processes that generate the illusion of selfhood. Extinction isn't a doorway to something else, it's just the lights going out forever. Every spiritual framework or philosophical system that promises otherwise is just folk psychology and primitive theory we cling to because accepting annihilation is psychologically unbearable. But unbearable doesn't mean untrue.
>>18131887>There is no afterlife, and deep down most people already know this but can't handle it. Holy cope> Philosophers love dancing aroundKek ironic
>>18131887So does right depict the inside of an Ecumenical Patriarch's skull or can lay Orthodox practitioners achieve this state?
>>18131887Why does consciousness using neurotransmitters mean materialism is correct? It’s just a mechanism through which consciousness is achieved. Furthermore, how can “electrical impulses” and neurotransmitters cause conscious awareness? How does self awareness arise from meat suits which should just be entirely robotic and random?
>>18131906>ummm bro I am a magical beautiful soil actually >my memory? in the brain>my decision making? in he brain>my personality? in the brain>so what does the soul actually do? s-shut up...
>>18131887Future mass shooter detected.
>>18131926>I would become a mass shooter if I didn't believe in magicStop telling on yourself, glowies have your IP.
>>18131926btw do you recall that the Columbine shooters asked kids if they believed in God and shot them if they said yes?
>>18131923You’re avoiding the question.Why would an entirely materialist and mechanistic system, localised to within the confines of my skull, produce in me a conscious experience? Why do I experience anything at all? I should just be an entirely mechanistic organism with sporadic bursts of neurotransmitter activity, not a conscious, reflective being with the possibility to replicate and spawn new life like me.
>>18131887They have already collected over 500k NDE testimonies from people who have undergone brain death.In fact, many of them died for hours, or even days, in a phenomenon called "Lazarus Syndrome"Science is not on the side of the materialist
>>18131887>Your consciousness isn't some magical soul floating aroundSpeak for yourself, loser.
>>18131923>>so what does the soul actually do? s-shut up...It does the consciousness. Memory, computation and likes/dislikes are its content.
>>18131936I'm not avoiding any question, that was my first post itt. You are the one avoiding the problem I brought up. I'm a property dualist btw, it's the simplest solution to the problem. Souls are a cope.
>>18131949Under this paradigm, there's nothing special or even specific about any individual soul. It's the brain that makes he difference, and that goes away when the brain dies and decays.
>>18131887I don't see any reason to entertain this line of thinking.Suppose that you are right and there is no soul that persists after death: A person who accepts this truth gains nothing from knowing it. There's nothing he can do about it and it will only fill him with dread as he grows old and is faced with the inescapable doom that awaits him. There wouldn't even be the satisfaction of having your beliefs validated, since the moment you discovered that you were right about there being no afterlife, you would cease to be aware. At the same time, a person who erroneously believes in the existence of the afterlife would lose nothing from holding this inaccurate belief. He gets to face old age with the confidence of "knowing" that it's not the end, and he'll never find out that he was wrong, since the moment that his expected afterlife doesn't materialize, he'll be unable to perceive its absence. Disbelief in the soul is basically an infohazard. Even if it's true, it can only possibly harm you to know that truth.
>>18131951You claimed consciousness was an entirely “neurobiological impulse” achieved by neurotransmitters. I said that this doesn’t validate materialism on its own, since consciousness creates qualia and subjective experience, which should be impossible in an entirely materialist system.>im a property dualist btwexplain
>>18131956They are individual souls so there must be some instances, otherwise it would be one consciousness experiencing all brains. How exactly they differ and what effect the varying content has on the soul, I cannot tell. But to say it's none is to guess as randomly as to say it's total.
>>18131963>the belief that my coping mechanism don't reflect reality is dangerousDamn right it is, that's why people go apeshit when you question their coping mechanisms. Some guy made a fortune from building a life-sized replica of a giant boat from ancient middle eastern myth in Kentucky because people are afraid of death.
>>18131963A person believing in afterlife will not value life as much, for one. Also the fear of hell.
>>18131906>How does self awareness arise from meat suits which should just be entirely robotic and random?language
>>18131963>Even if it's true, it can only possibly harm you to know that truthOr you could just figure out how to be comfy with it. I personally feel like I'm fine with the idea that I will cease to exist, but then maybe I can't really say that since I don't quite believe it. I'm actually more concerned about ways my "soul" might survive death that are less than desirable. To me dying is like pressing a button that could do anything at all, conceivably, and I find that frightening. Certain nonexistence feels comparatively emotionally neutral.
>>18131963In my experience Christians have been the ones who love reminding people that their time on earth is a tiny gust of cosmic wind.
>>18131967>You claimed consciousness was an entirely “neurobiological impulse” achieved by neurotransmitters.I never said that. I told you this >>18131923 was my first post itt but apparently you can't read.>explainI believe matter has both quantitative properties (mass, charge, spin etc.) and qualitative properties ("what it's like" properties). I believe that the latter are epiphenomenal, i.e. causally inert.>>18131968There is something really funny about positing a new substance to explain consciousness but then posit that it has traits that you aren't consciously aware of while all the traits you are consciously aware of are dictated by the brain.
>>18131887Hell is forever, and deep down most people already know this but can't handle it. Your consciousness isn't just some neurons firing in your brain, it's literally a soul that is judged by its creator. When your brain stops, eternity begins. This body will turn to dust, but it will be resurrected to glory or shame when all is fulfilled. Philosophers love dancing around this with ontological gymnastics and materialist cope about life just being a random collection of atoms bumping into each other, but it's all just elaborate denial. The King James Bible tells us that every idle word an atheist speaks, he'll be held to account for when he burns in Hell. The writer of Ecclesiastes was right that human life is vanity and that the only meaning to be found is in serving god. In 4.5 billion years the elect will still be taking pleasure in their life and work, and won't even remember the vermin burning in the lake of fire. No part of you will rest because your torment will last day and night, in outer darkness, forever. Death isn't a doorway to annihilation, it's just a relocation from this earth to one of unspeakable agony and despair. The only option otherwise is to accept God's promise that whosoever believes in his son should not perish but have everlasting life. Most people don't like this because it is unbearable for their pride. But unbearable doesn't mean untrue. Have fun burning.
>>18131975>>18131973That's really just a problem associated with Christianity and Islam, not with the idea of the soul in general. What does a person who is "spiritual but not religious" suffer from being incorrect? Or a person who follows one of the Eastern religions that has reincarnation, or one of the pre-Abrahamic religions with a morally neutral afterlife?
>>18131989Tldr you’re a retard. Great
>>18131989>a new substance to explain consciousnessI don't know if it's a new substance. Some idealists argue it's the only substance.>then posit that it has traits that you aren't consciously aware ofWell yes, something that enables conscious experience is not likely to be subject to conscious experience. I wouldn't really expect the ears to be audible either, would you?
>>18131998Excellent argument, friend.>>18132003>Well yes, something that enables conscious experience is not likely to be subject to conscious experience.Then you've got the same problem as the materialist. The entire issue raised is with regards to consciousness essentially boils down to "why would something without mental properties generate something with mental properties". You're also unnecessarily introducing a third category of thing - you've got the material (brain), the mental (consciousness) and the non-material and non-mental (soul). Why would you stick a thing like that inside your ontology?
I actually think atheists are getting dumber as time goes on. They keep assailing believers with this "if soul real why brain die" thing. The lack of self-awareness here is not dissimilar to what you would find in a 70 iq Haitian.
>>18132023>why would something without mental properties generate something with mental propertiesThe soul does have mental properties, it is mental per excellence. >you've got the material (brain), the mental (consciousness) and the non-material and non-mental (soul).Not exactly. The brain is material, the soul is mental, and consciousness is just the intersection. I don't think it's much of a tri-partite problem when I have an ear, a soundwave and the act of hearing in the middle, do I?>Why would you stick a thing like that inside your ontology?A soul? Because it's the first principle. I infer material reality. I don't infer my experience.
>>18131973Exhibit A: >>18132031
>>18132031They think that all matter in the universe used to fit inside of a golf ball.
>>18132035>Not exactly. The brain is material, the soul is mental, and consciousness is just the intersection. Let's walk back for a bit. What do you even mean by mental properties? It's not things like computation, decision making etc. because those are material. It's also not consciousness because according to you, the soul is mental but consciousness isn't defined as the soul but rather the intersection of the brain and the soul.>A soul? Because it's the first principle. I infer material reality. I don't infer my experience.Now you're conflating between the soul and consciousness.
For me, it's the implication that Australian Aboriginals had knowledge of architecture, clothes and a written script when they first arrived, after the tower of babel. It's just way too believable that they'd mess up this bad. Therefore it's doubtless that the God of the bible created all things.
>>18132050>What do you even mean by mental properties? It's not things like computation, decision making etc. because those are material.Conscious experience. Of computation, decision making or anything else. >Now you're conflating between the soul and consciousness.Perhaps a little bit, yes. The soul is a term that gets thrown around for pretty much all parts of the human being that you cannot poke with a finger, often including memories and emotions. I (and I think a fair share of philosophers of mind) don't necessarily use it that way, but at the same time I don't know where consciousness ends and soul begins or if there is such a line at all. I just know my starting position is not a piece of matter. And this, to most, translates to a soul. If you want to argue, as you rightly do, that computation is material, I am willing to grant this entirely. But I still don't know where consciousness ends and the soul begins or if there is such a line at all.So yes, I do conflate them a little and I'll try to be clearer when using the terms going forward.
>>18132064I still don't understand what the soul is doing for you. You may not consider the soul a third kind of substance, but it's at the very least a substance with the third kind of properties. If I understand it correctly, your paradigm works like this: material thing = material propertiessoul = mental properties (but only when intersecting with the material?*) + non-material non-mental properties (aka things the soul is/does which aren't subject to conscious experience)The whole framework seems highly superfluous to me.*Wouldn't that make mental properties equally belong to matter and soul if both are necessary?
Left: ChristianRight: Atheist
>>18132100Bingo.
>>18132090>If I understand it correctly, your paradigm works like this:>material thing = material properties>soul = mental propertiesNot to be pointing fingers, but I used "mental properties" after you did it, it doesn't play a large role in my paradigm. My paradigm is that I know through experience, which seems to be immaterial. I thus have an immaterial component at least. But I also have no reason to deny that my immaterial component continuously draws on material structures, through my body. It seems straightforward to me, but I understand the problem that arises from assigning ontological primacy to terms "material" and "immaterial". To me, the separation in terms is practical, like is the case for all concepts after all.>*Wouldn't that make mental properties equally belong to matter and soul if both are necessary?I wanted to point out one thing but thought it would come across rude, but let me try. Ken Wilber points out a fallacy (that I and everyone else commit daily) where a person who occupies a centre position on a spectrum folds the spectrum in half (whichever way) and groups together things that are above and below him. His example were altered states of consciousness: people grouping together dreams (sub-personal) and visions (trans-personal) to either pretend they are both beneath regular consciousness (as scientists do) or that they are both transcendental (as naive mystics do). In this case, I think you're in the centre of the spectrum when it comes to human consciousness (and general anthropology). There are obviously material bits that go into it. There is obviously a consciousness, which is what you are focusing on and trying to address. And to me, above all that is the soul, which enables consciousness at all. But to you, the spectrum folds in half and the sub-consciousness bits (like matter) and hyper-consciousness bits (like spirit) become one group. Just food for thought, I'm running out of space and time.God bless
>>18132100>>18132119https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301051122000254?via%3Dihub>Non-Believers show increased contribution from a resting-state network associated with deliberative or analytic processing (Microstate D), and Believers show increased contribution from a network associated with intuitive or automatic processing (Microstate C). Further, analysis of resting-state network communication suggested that Non-Believers may process visual information in a more deliberative or top-down manner, and Believers may process visual information in a more intuitive or bottom-up manner.
>>18132130Thanks for the reply, I appreciate you spending so much time and effort on me. That said, I'm still stuck on the point that I mentioned in my previous post.To put it another way, it seems to me that you either have to equate soul with consciousness, in which case it doesn't have any parts/functions that we aren't consciously aware of, or you don't (fully) equate it with consciousness, in which case it must necessarily have properties which are neither material nor mental (i.e. conscious) - a third kind of property.This is one of my main problem with the concept of the soul. To me it seems like this problem arises because the concept of a soul was grandfathered in from a paradigm that didn't peg down things like personality, decision making etc. as material things.
>>18132141I googled microstate D and the top result was a study suggesting that significantly decreased microstate D activity is a biomarker of schizophrenia.https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11505886/
>>18131906The human mind has “consciousness” because it had millions of years of evolution to become extremely complex. But what is consciousness? The awareness of the self? How do you tell? By asking? Computers can simulate that too. They can claim to be aware of themselves, (but of course that is just based on their training data), What’s the difference between a simulated consciousness and real consciousness when it gets to the point you can’t tell the difference? I’m not saying computers will gain personhood, I’m saying personhood has no inherent value, and only has value to us because our culture/society evolved to say so. In the grand scheme of the universe and/or time, we are NOTHING. We only value ourselves, nothing else grander values us
>>18132293>millions of years of evolution to become extremely complex.Not in evidence.
>>18132301Millions of years of life evolving was the precursor for the human species.
>>18131945All bullshit lol. You can trigger the same visions by denying your brain blood and oxygen. The air force did a ton of tests about this.And you cant die and come back. It’s not possible. I invite you to show me someone who has completely died, no breathing, no heart beat, and complete brain death. You can’t.Lazarus syndrome is just the body preforming one last Hail Mary to get the heart pumping, as that’s what causes it, cardiac failure.
>>18132315Small problem.
>>18131990>schizo babbles of a Bronze Age goat farmer who thought the earth was flat and that God had to rest after creating everything
>>18132327Small error, if you define death in the classical way, as no heart beat, yes you can come back. But real death (brain death) is irreversible.
>>18132031If soul real how come I can permantly alter someone forever via a lobotomy? If I can turn a good Christian boy into a violent, drunkard by just fiddling with his brain a little like what happened to Phineas Gage then what exactly is the soul and how can God judge it?
>>18132141Lol religion is a thing for women and feminine men we all already knew that
>>18132198Higher intelligence does increase your chance of schizophrenia and depression. This is why Whites and Asians kill themselves more often then blacks and hispanics
>>18132337Chat GPT can refute this lol. It's over bro.
>>18132327They did not have "visions". They had information that they should not have knownie, Conversations from the other roomHidden objects on the roofAccurate testimony of medical procedures>I invite you to show me someone who has completely died, no breathing, no heart beat, and complete brain death. You mean this?>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL1oDuvQR08They "killed" the patient by taking away his life support. They waited for 45 minutes for the doctor to confirm his deathThen it started beating again, and they rescued himBefore you say something:Remember: 20% of patients "die" temporarily in surgeryAnd all of them agree that something is waiting on the otherside. It's only a matter of time till the materialist view finally crumbles
>>18132339That's what I meant. Cardiac death doesn't mean shit in 2025. Brain death is the real death because there's no coming back.
>>18132360>They "killed" the patient by taking away his life support. They waited for 45 minutes for the doctor to confirm his deathHe didn't achieve brain death. He never did die. His brain was still firing signals off trying to reboot after a hard crash.
>>18131887>There is no afterlifeYes, I agree. We all deserve to go to Hell, Hades, or the abode of the dead and suffer eternal death. Death is the natural path for all who have lived. According to natural law, we will all deteriorate. Did you think we would be surprised by your statement, Anon?
>>18132362I shoulda said “to clarify”,
>>18132360>They did not have "visions". They had information that they should not have knownDoctors have tested this before by putting messages on the tops of shelves with the permission of people with a high chance of going into cardiac arrest in the hospital, and they couldn't recall shit. There hasn't been a single scientific test done that has proven that anyone has done what you've claimed, and all the stories are hearsay and book bait.
>>18132364No heartbeat, no brain, dumbass!The neuron dies in 3 minutes without constant oxygenNo heartbeat, no blood, no supply, no brain activityDead as a fucking doornailAnd yet, he lived.Lived without any brain injury. Oh, and he also has visions of the afterlife
>>18132371Ah. Well thanks then. That's what I was trying to say but I'm exhausted so I apologize if it wasn't clear.
>>18132377>testedDo you really expect that the afterlife can be controlled?The fact that they failed doesn't disprove the others
>>18132380Never has happened ever lol. Such a breakthrough case would of course be known far and wide and be studied for years. But it hasn't.Any proof he was brain dead?
>>18132390You can't go to the afterlife without being dead, and you're not dead until your brains dead, and then you can't come back at all.
>>18132366> Your consciousness isn't some magical soul floating aroundIt's also true that the idea that the soul (pneuma, which means consciousness) is separate from the body is Gnostic nonsense that emerged in the early medieval period when Plato's teachings were embraced by the public.If we die, our soul is completely removed. Unless some kind of resurrection or return from death occurs, you are doomed. There are medical records of people who have returned from the dead. Some report brain damage, but despite the loss of some bodily functions, they can live full lives.I think that, as some scientists would agree, when we die, we will become permanently trapped in an eternal darkness. However, I differ from scientists in that I believe the creator of the universe can save our souls through a miracle, freeing our consciousness. This would be heaven.It's fascinating how much I agree with atheists on metaphysics. At least they're a better alternative than nihilists and solipsists, who, in rejecting truth, also reject physicalism.But truly, we cannot know. Some people report after-death experiences, and some people report the scientific possibility of a soul existing. Honestly, outside of medical science, I do not care about these statements. I believe in the one who was resurrected after three days.
>>18132400That is Dr. RudyHe is the Dean of the Heart Program at the University of Georgia School of Medicine
>before you die life flashes before your eyesThats the worst part
>>18132409You can also die and be brought back to life, you knowJesus did it multiple times before he died on the cross
>>18131887Sorry Reddit is the other way around, these months must have been hard for you after Trump made it clear we should only consider biological sex and whatnot.
>>18132355https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4391822/>In this large, representative sample, we found no evidence for a link between genius and schizophrenia.>High intelligence substantially attenuates the impact of genetic liability on the risk for schizophrenia.
>>18132380>The neuron dies in 3 minutes without constant oxygenThen how did he come back retard? Is he out walking around with a dead brain right now? Surely this scientific breakthrough would have studies you can link, right?
>>18132427The fact that it defies science is what makes it a miracle, dumbfuck!
>>18132419He's dead as dirt apparently and I can find no reference to his brain death or subsequent study or even reference of such a scientifically signfigant eventhttps://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/apr/26/obituary-rudy-lloyd-william-jr/
>>18132444Then SURELY SOMEONE would've WORTE about it. But they didn't Kek. Prove me wrong with a scientific study or even reference to him coming back from brain death.
>>18132446>>18132452You are looking for this:>https://ia800203.us.archive.org/26/items/moreitems/BRIEF%20REPORT%20re%20Lloyd%20Rudy.pdf>Here are his replies: This case happened some time late 1990’s early 2000’s. I do not know the patient’s identity anymore. Neither do I think we can find out, unfortunately. It has been too long and I do not have any records of that case anymore. My role was that of assistant surgeon. I was in the case from beginning to end. I did witness the entire case and everything that my partner Dr. Rudy explained in the video. I do not have a rational scientific explanation to explain this phenomenon. I do know that this happened. This patient had close to 20 minutes or more of no life, no physiologic life, no heart beat, no blood pressure, no respiratory function whatsoever and then he came back to life and told us what you heard on the video. He recovered fully. I do not think there was something wrong with the monitoring de- vices, The reason is that there are different types of monitors and they were left on. We could see a flat line, the monitor was on but not re- cording electrical activity in the heart. When he started coming back, we could see at first a slow beat that eventually evolved into some- thing real closer to normal. The same with the ultrasound scan placed inside the esophagus, we saw no heart activity for the 20 minutes or so, machine still on, and then it started showing muscle movement, that is, contractility of the heart muscle that eventually turned into close to normal function, able to generate a blood pressure and life. The reason we saw him coming back is that fact, that the monitors were on and so we saw him regaining life, when this happened we restarted full support with drugs, oxygen etc. This was not a hoax, no way, this was as real as it gets.
>>18131887don't cry because it's over. smile because it happened.
Sorry but im a commie and spirits are spooky non material and unscientific unlike based scientific socialism that can predict the falling rate of profit over time to its eventual demise.
>>18132456I'll read it with an open mind
>>18131887If it doesn't matter then why do you care?
>>18131963>Disbelief in the soul is basically an infohazard.Correct, but the philosopher's duty is precisely to confront the hazard, to bind it conceptually rather than flee into consoling myths.
>>18131887Me on the right.
>>18131963The human mind is special SOLEY because we understand that we’ll die someday. No animal that we have evidence of knows this. To them all death is foreign, it can only happen to others. You should be grateful that you can understand this and come to terms with it.The way I see it as I was dead for trillions of years, possibly forever backwards depending on if the universes timeline is truly infinite, and I wasn't bothered by it one bit. I fear dying, and the possible pain of it and what will happen to my loved ones after, but I'm not afraid of death.
>>18132479hello, Ranjesh.
>>18132462kek
>>18131887People like you and your philosophy are more addicted to your own nihilism than any actual truth to be found within it, which there is none, because it is wrong, because materialism is wrong. It cannot account within the laws of physics what even creates consciousness and doesn’t even pretend to deal with the metaphysical question of what consciousness even is in the first place. A necrotic philosophy for a necrotizing modern society, the philosophical cousin to trannies, mass shooters, and death camps.
>>18131887>Science tells us we came from inanimate matter and we'll return to it.the Bible tells us too“you are of dist and to dust you shall return”people had this knowledge 6000 years agotruly His Word is the truthpraise the Lord
>>18131990White hands typed this
>>18131983>for in that sleep of death, what dreams may come when we have shuffled off this mortal coil must give us pause>the dread of something after death, the undiscovered country, from whose bourn no traveler returns, puzzles the will and makes us rather bear those ills we have than fly to others that we know not ofIt would certainly be quite the bummer if the subjective conscious experience of the death process involved a massive distortion of our perception of time, seemingly stretched out into restless infinity. It's a possibility not irrational nor materially infeasible, given our knowledge of the effects of certain psychoactive chemicals on temporal perception. Some may of course prefer that alternative to the utter finality of annihilation and choose to go out like Aldous Huxley by mainlining a metric fuckton of acid, but the quiet embrace of oblivion does seem on the whole a bit more comfy. I guess conscience does make cowards of us all. >captcha: kill your self mortal man?
>>18132359jew bot has a surface level understanding of these things
>>18132581>Therefore, magical coom-forever cloud for me and magical burn-forever lava for my enemies.
>>18131887People like this have such weird presuppositions value-judgement-wise... who's to say either of these are good or bad? Why are you employing these value judgements to paint some kind of picture, convince people or form arguments? You're trying to conduct yourself like you're unbiased and avoidant of idealism, but you just inverted your idealism to focus on matter, you're still a positivist and a dualist, so no different than the religious people you criticize, you also aim to prove your beliefs with reason, so no better than speculative theologians, there are even religions that tend to subscribe to these kinds of beliefs, you're not really much different than them.
>>18132626Not one thing I said gives any credence to the left over canannite cult god
>>18131983same, I’m ok with reverting to the state that existed before I was born. I find comfort of some sort in this. I’m not OK with the possibility of severe eternal torture or drudgery that I can’t even begin to comprehend.
>>18131887>Science tells us we came from inanimate matter"the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground..."
>>18131887Sure thing, moron
>>18131887Good luck proving that to yourself.
>>18131887>>18131963I was thinking about it but doesn't the fact that there is only a finite amount of actions that can be done make the things we do far more important and meaningful? in a world with reincarnation you can just let the man starve and he'll hopefully be reborn in a better life, in a world with an eternal afterlife does his starvation even matter? but in our current world he only has this one life, you only have one life, and so choosing to spend one of your finite actions on feeding him carries far more meaning. you choose to give a part of your life to him.
>>18131887As a person who, pre-birth, spent several million years in Hell, from the pits of my bowels I say: fukk u
>>18131887>When your brain stops, you stop. Period.cool. but why was I able to take control of this specific biomech suit? why did my consciousness materialize out of nothingness? why shouldn't it happen again after I die?
>>18131906Check out things global workspace theory or attention schema theory. It's sill an open problem and at the very forefront of neuroscience, but there are more and more very convincing theories for the mechanistic underpinnings for consciousness, and all of them reduce it to a process as boring as any other material process in our bodies
>>18132581>It cannot account within the laws of physics what even creates consciousnessJust patently false anon. I agree on one count tho, that while I do think materialism is true, I don't think it's something that should be "taught". Like legitimately we'd probably all be better off and happier if neuroscience stopped looking any deeper into the pit
>>18132475What if it cannot be bound?
>>18131990The most annoying part of finding people IRL to discuss existential dread with is that the majority are religiontards or just low iq normies who only care about hedonism.
The particles that make up your brain are still there and interacting, albeit faintly. Also every second the particles that make up your brain are circulating and reacting. It is debatable if you exist as a being with an active brain for more than a millisecond before you are replaced by another being.
>>18133518>biomech suitThere is no biomech suit. You are your body.
>>18132035>>18132050What do you two think about performing the ship of theseus on a brain? At some point, after we were born and our brains grew and grew we gained consciousness. Neurons are also growing and dying as we live. Since we are all alive and presumably still sane and conscious, whatever changes have occurred to our brains have not yet taken away our consciousness. So, theoretically, if we can synthesize neurons identical to ones in our body and have a technique to "attach" the neurons to a living conscious human brain, the brain will still be the same "consciousness" (eg the qualia is unchanged, the guy experiencing things and "piloting" his body is still piloting it) Taking it a step further, what if we ship of theseus the whole brain? Would that still be the same person experiencing things and piloting the meat body? What if, we made the brain really big with extra neurons, and split it into two? Would his consciousness be piloting two bodies? If not, what determines which of those split bodies the consciousness pilots? >>18131989>I believe matter has both quantitative properties (mass, charge, spin etc.) and qualitative properties ("what it's like" properties). I believe that the latter are epiphenomenal, i.e. causally inert.But what "activates" the inert properties? If the brain in the OP pic is "reactivated", and assuming no or minimal damage has occurred, and the memories, personality, preferences, etc stored in the brain are preserved and are now active again with firing neurons, is it the same person experiencing things, or a new instance of the program who believes it is the original?
>>18131983I will do everything in my power to achieve immortality
>>18134215>There is no biomech suit. You are your body.source? it can just be physical matrix to attach the soul. but seriously, aswer the rest of questions. if there was nothing, what determined my consciousness to be manifested in my specific body? why cannot it happen again after this body dies? oh right, you can't.
>>18134831>if there was nothing, what determined my consciousness to be manifested in my specific body? why cannot it happen again after this body dies?These questions presuppose that you are not your body but rather some ghost that's piloting a biomech suit. I reject this premise.
>>18132359>Chat GPT can refute thisNo, it can't.>lolHow very.>It's over bro.Yes, Darwin is dead.>>18132444Indeed. Enjoy Hell.>>18134205You should try your local LGBTQP+ groups. I'm sure you'll find many like minded individuals there.
>>18135003You literally lost a debate to Matt Dillahunty lol. Imagine getting btfo by such a freak show.
>>18135011
>>18135013You can't even deny it because I'm right. You called into Matt's show, got btfo and then posted the recording here.
>>18135033
>>18135036You can't actually bring yourself to tell me it's not true because you're afraid of lying. That's why you're posting these maymays you love so much.
>>18135043
>>18135047See? You can't do it. It's like asking a Muslim to insult Mohammed. You know I'm right so you dare not straight up lie and say I'm not. The best you might be able to do is say I'm wrong with the caveat that you're not denying that you debated Dillahunty, but merely that you got btfo by him.
>>18135060This is great. Keep going.
>>18135078Yeah, it is great. You prove me right with every post where you don't dare to say that you never debated with Dillahunty.
>>18135089I never debated with Dillahunty. Your pattern recognition is so *trash* that it borders on clinical insanity. I'm so glad I don't have your worthless brain. Ready to admit you are wrong, or are you going to triple down?
>>18135097>I got the Cambodian to lieEnjoy hell, Sek.
>>18135101I'm so glad Hell is waiting to receive you, shitskin.
>>18135112It's always funny when you're a white blue eyed man like me and a Cambodian guy called Sek calls you a shitskin.
>>18135118
>we dont fully understand how the brain works therefore the only possible explanation is magic>don't question why your personality changes when you get brain damage
>>18135128
>>18131887If I didn't know better I'd say this was written by me. This realization sent me to some dark places in my teenage years. But there's also beauty in standing at the sideline, watching the world of the unknowingly.
>>18132293in those millions of years of evolution why is it impossible to evolve something which survives death?
>>18135123Another excellent post by sek the self-hating seasian.
>>18135135Sure. You were both programmed by the same types of Jewish media growing up. You're not special. I recommend killing yourself, personally. At least then you don't have to pay for the decades of sin you otherwise would have committed. Hope that helps!
>>18135140
>>18135143Keep going, Sek. The funniest thing is that unlike you, I don't hate non-white people. I think a universal brotherhood of man is a beautiful ideal. It's sad that you're stuck with a mindset that leads you to hate the very thing you are.
>>18131906>Why does consciousness using neurotransmitters mean materialism is correct? >bro there's literally nothing after>that's why I have to collect so many things now
>>18135142I was reading Isaac asimov by the time I was 10. In my teenage years I was binging Cioran & Schopenhauer in search of people that understood what I had been realizing. I will refrain from any further discussion here. I have learned the hard way that the majority of people are simply not capable of thinking at the level I do. Once in a while I encounter someone that can, like OP it seems like, it's nice to know you're not alone.Killing myself would mean giving meaning to life. I do not.
>>18135180>I was reading Isaac asimov by the time I was 10.What a pathetic attempt at a flex. >it's nice to know you're not alone.You are going to burn alone, in outer darkness, forever. That's the price of spitting in God's face by rejecting his son. Tick tock!>>18135151Picrel. You're so fucked. :)
>>18135193You need to forgive yourself for being born a Cambodian, Sek. If you don't, the guilt is going to eat you alive.
>>18135195
>>18135207I know you wish there were meds you could take to stop being a Cambodian, but there's nothing wrong with your ethnicity.
>>18131887Yes, that's why I plan on signing up for cryonics, and maybe also dedicating resources for archiving data for possible future rescue simulations.
>>18135228
>>18135233None of those will make you white. You have to make peace with being a Cambodian.
>>18135236
>>18135245And now you're hallucinating about being a doctor. You need to stop hiding and face reality, Sek. You're not a doctor, you're not white, and that's okay.
>>18135259
>>18135263Those won't make you white either, Sek. You need to go and apologize to your parents for blaming them for making you Cambodian.
>There is no afterlifeProve it.
In the universe energy is preserved, never destroyed only concerted. I think the same is the case with consciousness, so there most likely is some afterlife or rebirth, etcetera. Also, what were (you) vefore you were born? How can any consciousness come into existence and why cant it happen again for the same consciousness? I havent heard any convincing refutation of this.
>>18135274You need a lobotomy, Simon.
>>18135285>In the universe energy is preserved, never destroyed only concerted. I think the same is the case with anime girl figurines>Also, what was an animal girl figurine before it was made? How can any figurine come into existence and why cant it happen again for the same figurine? I havent heard any convincing refutation of this.
>>18135291>hallucinating about being a doctor againThat's an interesting monomania, Sek. In aby case, I find it fitting that you instinctively chose a rather white name for me.
>>18135297Tick tock.
>>18135293Yeah. An anime figurine can be recreated at pretty much any point and the timespan inbetween the destruction and recreation does not matter to the being of an anime figure.
>>18135310>tiktokI don't care about your zoomer social media, Sek. Maybe go discuss that on your e-christian discord.
>>18135315So you think you may be "reincarnated" in the same sense that you think somebody in a couple billion years might make another Asuka figurine?We can already do that now, just make a clone.
>>18135323The clone is gonna have a slight difference so is not gonna be me, but somebody else very similar to me.
>>18135334You ten days ago have a slight difference to you now.
>>18135340Yeah, I changed a little bit. It is merely common sense to call me the same. Depending on exact circuumstances Ill be different.
>>18135345Yeah so there's no problem with the clone being a bit different.
>>18135349Ok, then my soul round about can exist multiple times at the same time. Thats pretty cool
>>18135355>my soulYour what?
>>18135357My soul, my essence of being.
>>18135360>my essence of beingYour what?
>>18135363My consciousness. I die and reincarnate a little bit all the time. Im a natural, boy
>>18135366What makes it yours? Rather than another person's?
>>18135379You got me, this one I cant answer. Maybe destiny decides
>>18134838you seem to be repeatably missing the point. what determined you(=your aware body if you wish) would arise at this specific point in time and space? why shouldn't it happen again?
>>18131896>Holy cope>now let me tell you how your magical spirit goes to an amusement park in the literal sky to live foreverSounds like coping to me
>>18131936Why would a mystical essece with no material component produce consciousness right on your position in space and time?
