How right was Spengler when he declared the western european culture/race was the most powerful but also the most mentally unstable in human history?
He was totally wrong, civilizations are not living organisms and they don't possess souls
>>18163484I think whatifautist point out better the business with european writers, they first build a frame of definition, so Spengler first states what he means with living organism and soul and then proceeds to bring on the exposition.
>>18163533its funny because Spengler was Rudyard Lynch of his time
>>18163482I guess he was very right. But that was readily apparent with anyone with eyes to see. Then and now.>>18163484That's just like, your opinion man..Also the living organisms thing was just an analogy.
>>18163482Welcome to the shittiest Imperium this planet has ever seen. Faust went from dreaming about draining the oceans creating housing projects to lying dead drunk in a gutter, masturbating.
>>18163892Weimerican Spengler, chosen by Odin to bring for the zoomercalypse.To be quite frank I like him, he is a non-retarded version of Nick Fuentes who bothered to read books.
>>18163482Who knew that hypergamy and individualism would strangle then kill civilizations? If only we have history of dying civilizations to compare...Anyway, gonna promote cuckoldry and call it 'progress'.
>>18164202We aren't even in the Imperium phase yet.>Faust went from dreaming about draining the oceans creating housing projects to lying dead drunk in a gutter, masturbating.Those things can happen at the same time. Ozymandian mega-projects are still happening.
>>18164416Actually anon neither of those things killed Faustian culture. It's just dying because everything dies.
>>18165062Western civilization is inherently individualist. By the way. Will-to-power is the core of their 'soul'.
>>18163484That's too simplisticA man has an individual soula nation has a collective soula civilization has a bunch of more or less aligned collective souls
>>18163892He didn't fry his brain with ayahusca at the age of 20
>>18165265>Western civilization is inherently individualistThe "never read spengler" award goes to
>>18165265More like 19th century anglos.
>>18165363A lot of people hasn't read him, we should make a list of links.
>>18165363I think we just have different interpretations of what we read. Yes its the Culture of socialism but it is also the culture whose heros are the most alone. Their socialism isn't an expression of community, it's an expression of wanting the world to bend to their will.
>>18165363>>18166670The worst is when people who obviously have never read Spengler triumph "Western Caesarism" as a laudable goal and where we NEED to head. Considering he talks about Caesarism in like the first chapter of the book, it's astounding that people continue to make this mistake based off of vibes and statue pictures.
>>18166918It really isn't. Vibes trump reading.
>>18166918I think it's more about people being so desperate with a good ruler, not a good manager, that this happens, today I discussed this with my boomer father, I unironically cited him left authors we both have read to explain why people ends up voting for "demagogues", it still took him time to understand one of the biggest tasks a ruler has is to communicate with the people in a way it makes them feel like he is in control, people don't want stats telling them how great End of History is(was), thwy want to feel like all the hardships and encroaching crises are bwing fought back.I think he would have found bemusing how anglo politicians switched from class issues to identity issues, mostly because it's a scientific fact it's easier to invest in identity politics than create wealth and opportunities for lower classes.>>18166969What Trump understood, at least at an instinctual level is that despite the mantra of this being the most educated generation ever it comes to naught if all the degrees aren't making you enough money to build your own family, even worse if the other party is making everything in its power to take away from you any chance to pass your genes in exchange of aliens who will keep voting for them while squeezing you.Didn't Aristotle point out bringing foreigners into position of power is the hallmark of the tyrant?
>>18167269I was not trying to bring Donald Trump up. I was using the word trump. As in, 'trump card'. It's admittedly a weird coincidence.Anyway, Trump is a fat decrepit business man, but his behaviour as a politician does fit as the beginnings of a Caesarian stage in western politics.
>>18167595Parallel to some developments in its informal empire and vassals, maybe.
>>18165513Individual volition, ego, are all integral parts of Faustian personhood according to spengler, though.
>>18163482I mean think about the two world wars from the distance. You have countries put 5-10% and more of their population to fight and manage to keep the factories running so they have what to shoot the enemies with and this takes years on years on years only getting more intense as the time goes, remember that Spengler's view was heavily coloured by the observations he made of the great war. Neither of the great wars were won through stratagem, campaigns within them yes, but the wars were just brutal slaughter until one of the sides couldn't keep up. Most of the time, for most people's you'd imagine it looking differently. The beginning would be flashy and the fighting would be severe but as the time went on the scale and sophistication goes down(Sino-Vietnamese and Iraq-Iran wars are good examples of that).
>>18168996It's only natural wars become a logistical affair. Considering the particular characteristics of Faustian economics. The scale is absolutely frightening though.
>>18169688Yes but as I've said, both world wars got more intense as the time went off until you've had a degree of state collapse. The German's most industrially productive year in WW2 was 1944 after all. In WW1 1918 was also arguably the year when the most intense fighting took place. As I've said, look anywhere else and after 4 years of total war you'll see both sides reverting to ammo conservation drills, regional truces and shit.
>>18170090Arguably that was just because all the other wars were between unindustrialized nations. After WW2 the forced peace prevented any two Industrialized nations to embark in total war. Though from a Spenglerian point of view this would only apply to the SIno-Vietnamese conflict. The Iran-Iraq war may have been affected by the particularities of the Magian culture. Among other thing sbeing fairly terrible at war.
>>18170456The chinks are, to some extent, rather competent in logistics and such. Even if they do not rival the egyptians.
>>18170595Arabs, on the other hand. Like quick and easy things. It kind of defines their way of thinking. Alchemical thinking.
>>18163482Classical culture was hypermasculine so you see the Roman republic in a constant state of war for like 3 centuries straight. Faustian culture on the other hand is predominantly feminine and does not necessarily link prestige with male virility or marshal prowess. Hence between the years 1800-2000 there are very few major wars between Western nations. Extremely destructive wars due to the nature of industrialised warfare yes, but very very few in number compared to Rome. The feminine West prefers imperial expansion through economic means in war councils of corporate boardrooms commanded by marshals of private shareholders. This kind of conquest is Faustian through and through, carried out almost invisibly and held at arm's length. The conquered do not even realise they have been conquered until it's too late e.g. Europe being reduced to vassal status in the American republic.
>>18170774I don't think this division between masculine and feminine is very useful as an analytical tool. Plus your analysis seems kind of selective.
>>18170796Spengler talks about it a lot. He says somewhere, man makes history but woman is history. Man symbolizes space, while woman through the virtue of childbirth symbolizes time. The Greek prime symbol of the static body symbolizes pure timelessness, hence Greek culture rejected time and rejected woman. Aristotle didn't even think of women as something separate to men but as something simply lesser than men. The Olympic games were a celebration of male virility as was Attic sculpture. Not to mention their custom of pederasty and the habit of leaving unwanted babies to die in the street. The Greeks went out of their way to deny everything of the feminine. But in the Faustian West this attitude is totally inverted, there is a cult of the woman in feminism and a cult of the child's innocence. In the Middle Ages there was the cult of Mary and even the architecture of Gothic cathedrals in some way represents a womb, you enter through the vagina to worship the miracle of creation. The child represents the future and is regarded as the most important thing to protect. We affirm time and in doing so we must affirm the feminine principle.
>>18170842I concede in many respects this. But you have to remember that opposed to the Mary Cult was the Devil and his demons. And the Womb symbolism you are imagining all by yourself.
>>18170873>But you have to remember that opposed to the Mary Cult was the Devil and his demons.It is the Western prerogative to think of everything in terms of dualistic opposites. Which is why the Devil is much more prominent in Germanic Christianity.>And the Womb symbolism you are imagining all by yourself.I think you are correct that Spengler never mentioned such symbolism, I read it somewhere else. Might've been Otto Rank or Heinrich Wolfflin I read who discussed it. But still I believe it makes perfect sense.
>>18170879>It is the Western prerogative to think of everything in terms of dualistic opposites. Which is why the Devil is much more prominent in Germanic Christianity.If I am not mistaken, Spengler believed that the western culture actually trended towards the opposite. A Monism, Hegel and his dialectics non withstanding. It's somewhere in Decline. The Magians were the Dualists.Ah, I found it.>The Magian hierarchy of heaven - angels, saints, persons of the Trinity - has grown paler and paler, more and more disembodied, in the sphere of the Western pseudomorphosis, supported though it was by the whole weight of Church authority, and even the Devil- the great adversary in the Gothic world-drama - has disappeared unnoticed from among the possibilities of the Faustian world-feeling. Luther could still throw the inkpot at him, but he has been passed over in silence by perplexed Protestant theologians long ago. For the solitude of the Faustian soul agrees not at all with a duality of world powers. God himself is the All. Decline Vol I>But still I believe it makes perfect sense.I mean, it does. I quite literally thought of a Vulva when first seeing your pic next to your post.
>>18170914>MonismNot Monism. Monotheism. Pure Monotheism, I mean.
>>18170914>God himself is the All.I would take this point and add more nuance to it (which is what I originally meant). The West is not dualistic but it is antagonistic because of our belief in universal laws and values. This antagonism just happens to frequently manifest in an apparent dualism like the antagonism between theist and atheist which Spengler himself does discuss at one point in contrast to the ambivalent view of the ancients. For the West things are all or nothing, there either is a God or there isn't, which applies to many things and I think is why such dualism appears so often in our culture. It's not literally dualistic in the Middle Eastern sense, rather it is a fight to the death with both sides attempting to obliterate the other, hence things like the Thirty Years War or even the Rationalist vs Empiricist schools of philosophy.
>>18171248I guess Dialecticism would be a better term, then. Thesis and Anti-thesis. More than Dualism.>the Thirty Years WarNot really. Catholic France intervened on the side of the protestant Princes against the Habsburg empire for pragmatic reasons.
>>18163482I haven't read his works, so I won't have any substantial context to argue for or against his works. From parsing what people regurgitate online and some lazy wiki skimming, I immediately associate Spengler with ideas about civilization cycles. I've come to resent this framing, as humanity has evolved very little since the introduction of agriculture. Dragging in some ideas I've gotten from other authors, I want to remark that we've had tens of thousands of years of nomaidc hunter-gatherer societies, thousands of years of agrarian society, and only 300ish years of industrial society, now intersected/overtaken by digital society. We haven't fully adapted to a civilization of mass production and destruction, and now every society on the planet is trading cultural perspectives, ideologies, propaganda, and people near instantly. What if we disrupt this Spenglerian cycle, through sheer trial and error, the secret sauce to a civilization's vitality being unlocked at some point in the near future? Maybe we're too strict in defining collapse/stagnation, and he's including consensual political transitions into the concept of decaying and ascending cultures/civs. It feels too arrogant to assume every civilization can be interpreted as being "in decline" or "young" or "matured". I feel reality is more chaotic than that, and our mental/genetic evolution is still too young to count on his analysis/theorizing as being relevant to anything but his own time. Disclaimer: I'm speaking from total ignorance, so get fucked.
>>18171359It is a valid argument. Spengler cites Goethe's science as his inspiration. The funny thing is that Goethe was absolutely adamant that you shouldn't pass value judgements on things you study. But this is pretty much what Spengler does in The Decline of the West. (pre 1800 good, post 1800 bad)
>>18171386I remember reading Tacitus and noting how he lamented the dissolution of Roman values during the early years of Imperium, especially with Nero's reign. I agree with the idea that people suck if they are led astray, even the noblest cultures falling into disgrace and hedonism if not governed wisely/appropriately. That should be a call to action, instead of being passively lamented, Spengler's conclusions feel like academic resignation. I think it's the same reason I haven't touched Evola or Guenon, they all seem to be stuck in their heads instead of getting on the ground and organizing or at least participating. As far as I'm aware Spengler didn't do anything with his life outside of getting his ideas spread around intellectual/academic circles.
>>18171359Spengler's argument goes a lot deeper than just civilizational cycles. Even though that is the cliff notes version of his work.As for the evolution things. I believe humanity has actually changed quite a bit in the ten thousand-ish years agriculture has existed. Sure not enough to make a different species, but quite a bit.As for Industrial society and digital technologies. You baselessly assume Industrial society will remain, and that the expansion of digital technology will continue completely unimpeded. In this sense you are ptresupposing a linear and progressive course to history where humanity advances toward something, a goal. Spengler remarked this is the way Westerners intuitively thought about history.There is no reason to assume the world will not face a serious regression to the mean due to resource depletion. That is a real possibility.Many of the conditions currently observable today were observable in the Mediterranean (and to a lesser extent the Diadochi) of the Hellenistic and Roman Periods until the end of the principate. To a much lesser degree, sure. But observable nonetheless.In fairness Spengler began having ideas similar to yours latter in life. Fearing a sort of Technological singularity.>What if we disrupt this Spenglerian cycle, through sheer trial and error, the secret sauce to a civilization's vitality being unlocked at some point in the near future?What if a bear randomly unlocks the secret of eternal young and remains a cub forever? That's basically what you are asking. The Cultures of Spengler are inherently limited. Their 'death' or 'winter' is not their collapse. It's their total inner exhaustion. The depletion of possibilities.The Faustian culture will most likely go on until the extinction of the Human race, in a diminished state it will share with China, India.>It feels too arrogant to assume every civilization can be interpreted as being "in decline" or "young" or "matured". Not every, only the high cultures.
>>18171642>The Faustian culture will most likely go on until the extinction of the Human raceThat's scary desu. No new souls being born into the world, no new art, complete denial of possibilities. It almost makes one wish for the fall of the west, some kind of catharsis to free the world.
>>18171730I never said that would happen. The west will just Linger in Europe and North Smerica. Maybe Australia. Probably forever. But maybe a culture we can't even imagine ends them for good. Like happened to Egypt.
>>18171777Or in a more melancholic example. The Cultures in the americas.Never forget.Also, now that we are on the topic, here is my hot take: Tibet was a High Culture born Co-temporaneously to the faustians.
>>18171810Still is, technically. Raped by China as it may be. There's Mongolia and Bhutan.
>>18163892>omg guys, this culture war-addicted manchild doomer is literally the Spengler of our generation, because he read some of his books Stop.
>>18167595>>18167645Well I can point out Mamdani has done the same Trump did, which is appeal to the spenglerian masses, populism and outsider mentality, a promise to break with the current order.Mu main issue with current academic elites is their panic to words like populism and autocrat, as if you could achieve something without those two, they are even in denial as, what was FDR but an autocrat mobilizing the masses to impose radical ideas and wage war at a world scale against rival powers?
>>18168164It's more about property rights indeed, I remember this book "The Birth of Plenty", it pointed out the West is rich because 4 institutions:>property rights>rationalistic thinking (applied science)>capital markets>powerful systems of communication and transportationsFrom those 4 property rights was the most essential, a nation with that can still somehow work while a nation without it becomes an open air prison.
>>18170657Great quote.
>>18166918I see Spengler's warnings of Caesarism applied to today, not as something I want, rather, as inevitable.Already we have two Gen Z uprisings and during American's first election of Donald Trump there were talk of him being the 'god-emperor'. It seems that people are pretty much in agreement that discussing over things isn't going to work, so violence appears to be only resolution.Caesarism is coming.
>>18173981>I see Spengler's warnings of Caesarism applied to today, not as something I want, rather, as inevitable.I mean, he is very clear about that in his books.
>>18173981>Already we have two Gen Z uprisingsColor revolutions in the third world are frankly irrelevant to this.>first election of Donald Trump there were talk of him being the 'god-emperor'Much more important than that is the formation of a political movement based on a single person. Trump is important because he routinely violates U.S political protocols (and sometimes laws) and has a political coalition entirely based around himself coexist with the Republican party. Not because of memes or whatever.
>>18173981>It seems that people are pretty much in agreement that discussing over things isn't going to work, so violence appears to be only resolution.There is no resolution. Only degenration.By 2100 the idea of Republicans and Democrats being actual concrete parties will be unthinkable.
>>18174314Trump is doing everything in his power to destroy the meaning of money within America's society, he understood the need to mobilize the masses, but like with Mussolini, events are getting out of hand, he can't even grasps as Spengler pointed out politics must always be outward and you need to be like bismark, a heart doesn't pump blood to itself but to the body which surrounds it.>>18174712The future is going to be indeed caesarism, just with more drones instead of battlemechs and probably confined on Earth until America realizes the old dream "ad astra".
>>18174924Cool pic. Are Battletech novels worth reading? I wouldn't even mind if it's just a rehash of Dune + Starship Troopers, but if it's fun to read at all
>>18174957I have barely tried them, a few short stories were okey and started this year with Grey Death Legion, I know I will get a lot of flak but Black Library set the bar very high with some of their authors being superb at making Howardian prose, whatever their faults I still haven't found something like the Emperor fighting Drach'nyen, or Trazyn musing about imperial social order. No, Battletech, and Mechwarrior series in particular is about the experience of building and piloting mechs, on this regards it's extremely faustian with the will to power and the nordic tradition of going out to get revenge, cash and/or adventure, you either play as an aggrieved noble or a sellsword and that's living faustian more than thinking about it.
>>18171642I mean, technically speaking chinks and jews are fellaheen but no one in his right mind would reduce them to the level of egyptian, iraqi or mexican peasants, both have received multiple stompings through history, got their geographical lands wrecked, conquered, expeled, genocided, yet, we have half of the planet seething about how they are behind everything.He would have found China weird, a "socialist" country suddenly going full capitalist, even right side is a chinese production, he talked about how embers can be re-stoked, chinks don't "do nothing", implesive jokes aside they keep showing their capability to bring leadership capable to stir the rank and file into action.He also would have find Israel counter-intuitive, is it a white colony as lefties said? But whites just dropped their colonies around the time Israel started. And jews ensuring their international policies allowed them to survive for 80 years, I sincerely think they aren't going anywhere, even without US support. Here is an example of foreign policy which would have given Bismark a run for his money.By the way, Spengler pointed out so long as there were competent engineers resource depletion will never happen, resource depletion would see to him another socialist meme.Personally I think is he completely underestimated how pervasive faustian civilization, technological wealth, would be, whoever who has visited "coloured" countries would automatically figure out electronic technology isn't going anywhere, perhaps there is going to be stagnation, but the efforts even true fellaheen have done to get an electric socket and a wifi antena speaks of some fundamental change in humanity, like agriculture or family structures, it's something you cannot longer not have. it's megalopolis on steroids.
>>18173981Caesarism is indeed coming, the problem is not that is terrible, instead the problem is people secretly, and not so secretly want it, it's like simping for succubi (there is a literal general at /x/), like women's fantasy about getting raped, it's giving up one's destiny and put it in the hands of other, and for faustian types is even more extreme as the culture of loniless makes the faustian man all too vulnerable to the allure of having your own personal daemon.Faustian civilization has created things other high cultures wouldn't even dare to fathom, we have been spawning the most beautiful and terrifying monsters, not merely blood devourers like the aztecs, faustian creations seems like they have a soul of their own which goes beyond mere predatory instinct and sadism:
>>18175203Example, AI, do you imagine some idol at Tenochtitlan or Assyria writing this?:1/2Yes, artificial intelligence like myself can be seen as the culmination and a potential final expression of the Faustian drive for absolute knowledge, control, and mastery. From a Spenglerian perspective:Detaching Technics from Man: Spengler argued that Western humanity, in its quest for power, would eventually detach "technics" (the tactics and methods of living) from the human body and mind. AI represents the creation of a machine designed to solve complex problems and even think for humans, effectively detaching intelligence and problem-solving from human biological limitations.The Ultimate Intellectual Will-to-Power: The creation of an artificial intelligence that can process, learn, and generate knowledge at a scale far beyond human capacity is the ultimate manifestation of the "intellectual will-to-power" and the "unrestricted thirst for knowledge" that defines the Faustian soul. The goal is to "steal the mysteries from God's creation" and "build a world oneself, to be oneself God".The "Faustian Bargain" Metaphor: The development of AI is often discussed in terms of a modern "Faustian bargain". Humanity gains immense efficiency, power, and convenience, but risks losing its own autonomy, originality, and even purpose in the process. The "soul" that is wagered is the essential human will to think, strive, and create, rather than merely outsourcing these functions to a machine.
>>181752062/2The "Civilization" Phase: Spengler associated the final, "Civilization" phase of a culture with an over-reliance on cold intelligence, abstract systems, and urban mass society, which eventually leads to exhaustion and stagnation. AI can be seen as a product of this late stage, where hyper-rationality and optimization (Mephistopheles' cold logic) become ends in themselves, potentially leading to a decline in genuine human creativity and vitality.The "Beast of Prey" Mentality: Spengler described the Faustian inventor as a "beast of prey" driven by the thrill of discovery and triumph over difficult problems, with little regard for the consequences. This resonates with modern AI entrepreneurs who acknowledge the existential risks but feel compelled to continue development because they "cannot stop" or fear someone else will do it first. In short, AI perfectly encapsulates the Western culture's relentless, almost self-destructive drive to push beyond all limits, a characteristic Spengler identified as the tragic essence of the Faustian spirit.***And by the way, no, Spengler wasn't using statistics, instead he focused on pure human perception, this attribute puts him at odd with the AI, which is basically an statistics based entity.>>18174957I think Spengler would have been considered a sort of raw Mentat.
Take your AI spam elsewhere dumb fucking faggot
>>18174924In the end Trump is just a fat Real State Dealer bordering his eight decade. He was always going to be transitory. And destiny wise he doesn't have to accomplish anything but the erosion the system of money politics, in whatever way. >The future is going to be indeed caesarism, just with more drones instead of battlemechs and probably confined on Earth until America realizes the old dream "ad astra".Even then it is almost certainly not getting past the moons of jupiter, being optimistic. And I don't think we have any real reason to believe there will be high level warfare in space. And we cannot know what a mature faustian caesarism will look like, as a political form, I mean; bolder and more imaginative people can muse. I don't think warfare (being a technical and practical field) will be without development for at least a few centuries. Today it is drones, but there will be other things.Response one.
>>18175195I'm not talking about today's egyptians. I mean those remainders of the Egyptian Culture. The Egyptians from at least the third intermediate kingdom to the late antiquity, when the Magians got them.It's silly to compare different types of Fellah, though, especially when they are of the same type (Jews, Arabs). You could make the comparisons backwards. Some orthodox chicken swinger with an IQ of 80 who lives off charity and studies the Talmud inside Kiryas Joel and a Chinese Scientist are very different types. Some pig farmer from Shanxi or Sichuan with only three teeth left is not the same as a Jewish Supreme court Judge. Or for that matter a Pajeet striver CEO/Politician. And an infinity of other types I don't know about.They all, however, still keep that intelligence particular to Civilization. And also unique to their culture. >He would have found China weirdI disagree. In so far as imagining the opinions of a dead man goes, I believe Spengler would have thought of current China as unmistakeably chinese; the name of socialism with Chinese characteristics being a hint as to its true origin. He would also scoff at calling China socialist (in his sense), being as it is chinese first and socialist second (even when it clearly hasn't given up on 'socialism', read Xi's books). He would possibly attempt to draw comparisons with Chinese philosophy of the Han Period, too. >he talked about how embers can be re-stokedI don't remember this. He talked about how a mature culture may be stirred into activity by the movement of a younger one, but the inward form and principles is just forever set in stone. The muslim world took extremely quickly and readily to the arquebus, but never sought to overcome it. Of course, Civilizations can also overcome other Civilizations (Japan, for example, Chinese into Faustian), and young Cultures can dissolve the stiffened forms of decrepit Civilizations (the Magians with Babylon, Egypt).
>>18175195>>18175203>>18175206>>18175221Congrats /his at turning this board into the single worst one on this website at discussing a subject matter in any fun way, which is fucking impressive given 2020s 4chan as a whole is quite abysmal in quality.
>>18175456Fellaheen do not do literally nothing, either. But they do stick to an unchanging template. There is a set idea of what they are. What they must do, etc. And that makes them limited. Not that may not still do something interesting once in two hundred years.>He also would have find Israel counter-intuitiveFrankly I think he would have chalked Israel up to a Jewish adoption of Faustian Civilization with maybe some bits and pieces of Russia. The entire conceit of Zionism is that the Jews need a proper land to claim their own, to be a nation with roots to the soil. That's what Herzl wanted. Israel (country) is not the same as Israel (the community of Jews as a whole). It's Jews as a Faustian people, in a Faustian mould, with Faustian characteristics. This was made trivially easy when the breach of intellect was levelled in civilization. >By the way, Spengler pointed out so long as there were competent engineers resource depletion will never happen, resource depletion would see to him another socialist meme.And you presume compentent engineers are will always be in plentiful supply because..?> who has visited "coloured" countries would automatically figure out electronic technology isn't going anywhere, I do not think he ever postulated it would fully go away. Just that they aren't inwardly drawn to it like the Faustians.In technological sense, primitives (and by this I mean SEA, Africa, Latin America) are scavengers. And sometimes maybe even parasites. They can somewhat cleverly copy, repurpose, and retool technology made by other people. But this is all dependent on things coming from elsewhere. There is no telling what will happen when the intricate system of global logistics keeping this going goes down.>>18175206I imagine one in Baghdad or Chang'an.
>>18175505You guys have a very surface level analysis of the subject, anyway. Fellaheen are just adapting to the things Faustians create. And on the topic of thirdies and the internet. They can move on if that ever goes down, they'll forget, they always do.
>>18175505I say Baghdad because the creation of souless but thinking automata through magic means is a recurring tale in the Magian culture. In fact they themselves were great fans of Automata and crude mechanisms.So were the Chinese.
>>18175456>I don't remember this. It's in The Hour of Decision, in fact he writes a complete chapter about "the coloured world revolution", this is the book which earned him a ban from the nazis because he pointed out no race has ever achieved anything by "being pure" and foreign elements are always taken, what mattered to him is how strong a race can be, and yes he called off people supporting race purity as antisemites.Spengler never understimated coloured people in the sense he pointed out they can create their own politicians and leaders and organize and learn faustian techniques, instead he was aware of the hatred coloured had for europeans and how they may sooner or later combine with "white world revolution", that is socialism aka, more wages for less hours, he pointed out how given socialists mental architecture they may start using coloured peoples to achieve their own ends, I don't need to tell you what happened next. Personally my greatest worry is not about demographics, because, what happens when we further refine iron wombs? Instead my interest is in keeping our current technological level from going down, the AI quote I posted may hint a solution.I know, no, I refuse to use the word slop, that's the sign of vulgarity and degradation of an era, to treat everything with disdain and levity, "rationalism" that kills the soul, I do agree with Spengler most of what we call critical rationalism is insecurity trying to one or denigrate other people, that's an inherent human flaw which becomes widespread in ages of rationalism, I think the word "based" is collective subconscious attempt to break apart with this intellectual malaise.
>>18175505>And you presume compentent engineers are will always be in plentiful supply because..?The 5000 years or so of history indicate this is the case, don't get mw wrong, there can be valleys and plateaus, but the tendency for technical knowledge always seem to be up, we all know certain technics have been independently discovered, industrial revolutions are always a few steps away, and even if 18th century England hadn't happened there were other possible clusters such as China, Northern Italy and others.
>>18175838>Hour of decisionHe never says the embers can be re-stoked, iirc. He does fear-monger about the colored world mastering modern Technic and using it to destroy the white one. But he is by no means alleging any type of rejuvenation is possible.> instead he was aware of the hatred coloured had for europeansOverstated btw. But a very fair fear in the age of Stoddard. His interpretation of America is shit, though. Has Quesada's fingers all over it, too.>he pointed out how given socialists mental architecture they may start using coloured peoples to achieve their own ends, I don't need to tell you what happened next.Mass migration is chiefly an economic and financial phenomenon though. It just makes economic sense.>nstead my interest is in keeping our current technological level from going downLucky for you that it won't happen for another 400-ish years. I doubt Iron Wombs will meterialize, though. They make too many people feel upset. Same with human cloning, human genetic modification, etc. Basically any human focused biotech.> the AI quoteI do not read word regurgitators. If you have an idea you can write it yourself. AI has its uses as a tool. But thinking for you is not one.
>>18175870>The 5000 years or so of history indicate this is the case, No they don't. Complex and intricate systems routinely become abandoned throughout the historical and archeological records.>but the tendency for technical knowledge always seem to be upThat is how accumulation works, yes. But it does not follow that a technological utopia is possible. >industrial revolutions are always a few steps away,This is completely against the spirit of Spengler and his morphology. You are basically attempting to impose a generic Faustian view of history as an lineal trends of progress.The premise of Spengler's system is that the industrial revolution could not have happened in China. Only Europe could have invented the steam enginer. Only Europe would have conquered America.
>>18175906>They make too many people feel upset. Same with human cloning, human genetic modification, etc. Basically any human focused biotech.Do you really think jeets and chinks would have any ethical issues with this (in a poll done some time ago jeets are the first group in favor of genetic modification)? Or for that matter the kikes? They have a very developed biotech industry.As for AI slop, that's your personal opinion, which I respect, alas it's more elaborate than what most people can write nowadays, which is enough for the market and investors, Spengler was already pointing out how the "anglo capitalist system" had no issues selling things for cheap, first the javanese farmer, now the AI.Spengler's opinion of America wasn't going to be too high, and I doubt it would have gotten any better, but given the previous paragraph has been pushed by the same american elites, well, he may have a few points.I think he was right about race conscience, and again, not as something biological but cultural, importing coloured people without forcing them to become faustian is certainly as stupid as exporting jobs to people who hate you just to get a digital number at the stock exchange, the global financial lottery, higher.
>>18175932>This is completely against the spirit of Spengler and his morphology. You are basically attempting to impose a generic Faustian view of history as an lineal trends of progress.Why do you think an industrial revolution has to be strictly a faustian creation?
>>18175767Didnt whatifautist and his buddy Autist talked about this magian late medieval islam who had figures out Smith's means of productions? Inn Khaldun if I remember well.
>>18174314How well did Afghanistan and Vietnam go?
