ok i'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but what did they eat? since it was so far north there was surely barely any land for growing food, so how did they survive? fishing and hunting?
>>18175868Artic areas have very low and transient population, they fish and live in the few areas that have access to trade or water, there aren't any permanent arctic populations and they just kill all the fish and leave.
Why are westoids so obsessed with the Novgorod Duchy? It wasn't a democratic republic, it had more in common with 1990s Russia where a group of oligarchs controlled the government.
>>18175881because it's interesting, ok? and nobody thinks it is "democratic".
>>18175868the (rather small) population was concentrated in the area between novgorod and lake ladoga where agriculture was possible, the eastern and northern regions had almost no population (except fur traders and non-slavic indigenous people, and yes they probably lived off of hunting and fishing)
>>18175883How is it interesting? It's just a bunch of rich faggot boyars doing their typical medieval Russian stuff and the only reason why they didn't get conquered by the mongols like the rest of Russia was simply because Batu Khan gave up and turned around.
>>18175896well i guess to me it's because the state is centered on a northern, almost arctic region (and despite that they were rich), and it has a unique system of government. that's mostly why.
>>18175881If Novgorod had become the seat of Russian power instead of Moscow Russia today would be more democratic than autocratic.
>>18175896It's interesting because I say so, faggot.
>>18175912>retarded fukuyama bullshitYawn
>>18175881Why is everyone assuming that that makes absolute monarchy better?
>>18175868the region on this map south of modern-day st. petersburg was suitable for agriculture and that's where most of the people lived
Like other anons have said, the land around Karelia were pretty fertile, so that's likely where the population of Novgorod was concentrated, while the majority in the north and east was likely empty nomadic land.This was the reason why losing Karelia was such a huge blow to Finland post-1940/1944 because it was the breadbasket of the country (and the second largest city).
>>18176003They were/are able to grow cabbages extremely far north. As well as fish those waters.
>>18176003Karelia belongs to Finland. It's only a matter of time until Russia experiences a second balkanization. The collapse of the Soviet Union made it inevitable. The Ukraine war sealed the deal. Russia has won a slice of Ukraine but in return they've weakened the unity of the country by sending a neverending supply of cannon fodder to their doom. Putin has been a strong leader but his actions won't influence politics beyond his lifetime. Dominoes will fall upon his death.
>>18175868>irl Northern from Game of Thrones (ASOIAF)>extinct hypothetical North Slavic languageThank Ivan the Terrible
>>18176095Kek, Russchads are winning and will win.Go pantsdrunk in your room alone like a little cuck, butthurt belter.
>>18176095Red China finish major blow what is started.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amur_Annexationhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion_of_Manchuriahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflictModern version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantokuen
>>18176211You know I know old people who were saying that in the 70's. Last that I've seen the Chinese haven't invaded Siberia yet.Meanwhile I'll tell you one reason it won't happen. In the 90's and early 2000's Manchurian(northwestern in Chinese parlance) farmers would cross the border and work in Russian extraction industry seasonally. Nowadays they go south, the Russian wages aren't as attractive anymore and the transport to big southern cities has gotten much better. If China takes Syberia, they'll have to a lot more to the Chinese who now have to go there to work as the Russians sill slowly leave, most likely eating the entire margin of profit the Russian exporters had on the same materials. This simple calculation is the sole reason this wet dream of yours will not happen.
>>18175868picrelated 180 kg of meatthere are still big herds in the region
>>18176012I have no doubt they were able to fish, but I'd still wager that those people were predominantly nomadic
>>18175920Moscow were Mongols tax enforces. Their tsars kissed Mongols feet for the privilege to collect Mongolian taxes in Russia (plus Moscow tip).
>>18176324the sami knows
>>18175868Just whatever other Russians ate. Rye bread and porridge.Don't look at map painting. There were barely any settlements there most population lived around Novgorod and they can cultivate rye just fine.
>>18176362Fishing and hunting was a major source of food.Wheat and Barley to make bread and porridge.Fur was most likely the main money-maker, as it was for northern Scandinavia & Finland. Novogorod had strong ties with the Hansa so they probably made bank from fur trade, and the main import of that trade was most likely food from the continent.
>>18175875>they fish and live in the few areas that have access to trade or waterI liked this about the Alexander Nevsky movie, where they show the prince fishing in the beginning
>>18176183>hypothetical North Slavic languagethere's nothing hypothetical it's literally and i mean literally literally medieval russian down to every letter https://gramoty.ru/birchbark/document/show/novgorod/199/
>>18176586Almost resemble Nordic runes?
>>18176592no because it's called cyrillicit looks runic because it's carved into birch bark and not writtenhere's a similar learning exercise from a book from 1578
>>18176592That is correct. Cyrillic was invented by either Cyril or his students in the 9th century AD. Runic spread through central much, much earlier. The first Turks wrote in Runic.
>>18176586Some of the glyphs that look like Cyrillic are actually Greek because the Greeks went up their and Cyril just copied parts of Greek for his alphabet, which was to replace Glagolitic. Glagolitic was designed in the 8th century by Byzantine scholars as well. The Issyk dish proves Runic was around for much longer, however.
>>18176608which has jack all to do with a "hypothetical North Slavic language" existing in Novgorod
>>18176615>hypotheticalThere's your problem. Also, Greeks were up there too so you need to control for Greek dialects.
>>18176618No Greeks lived within the area when Novgorod was first visited by christian apostle Andrew, and neither are they mentioned as a founding tribe. The primary chronicles is consistent on this
>>18176627>The primary chronicles is consistent on thisChronicle. Singular. The Rus Chronicle also calls the Baltic the "Varangian Sea" and was written too late to take into account much knowledge. It's mostly full of nonsensical Biblicisms.
The Rus Chronicle says Romans are from the "race of Ham". Does that mean Rome was black African?
>>18175868Trading with Swedish beer, Czechs polk, Mongols horse milk, and Chinese rice
>>18176637>Chronicle. Singular.Not singular but as I wrote, chroniclesBecause the original is losthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurentian_Codexhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatian_Codex>The Rus Chronicle also calls the Baltic the "Varangian Sea"yes and?>Tacitus called it the Suebic Sea, Latin: Mare Suebicum after the Germanic people of the Suebi,[8][9] and Ptolemy Sarmatian Ocean after the Sarmatians,[10] but the first to name it the Baltic Sea (Medieval Latin: Mare Balticum) was the eleventh-century German chronicler Adam of Bremen.
>>18176642literally wrong stop spreading bullshithttps://www.mgh-bibliothek.de/dokumente/a/a011458.pdf
>>18176667Ha you're totally right, I just misread "from there go to the races of Ham" whoops
Codexes and manuscripts refer to a single chronicling. They're considered versions of the same story or source material. So yes, singular.
>>18176353is she going to kill that cute thing :0 nooooo
