What do you do?
>>18207738Impossible, the Iberian peninsula is not conducive to early industrialization and their culture wouldnt have allowed it otherwise. The colonies would become an even more burden after agriculture became less profitable and nothing Spain can do will wish away the local strong men from wanting a European tier lifestyle while being surrounded by native hordes, their lack of progress would continue to be blamed on the Spanish leading to never ending civil strife. A commonwealth being set up where Spain gets symbolic tribute would be the best outcome and they can use the prestige to leverage favorable alliances and trade treaties as the hungry British capitalists come looking to exploit any vulnerable market
>>18207738The Habsburgs never taking the throne would fix most of the problems
full alliance with China, convince them to rebuild treasure fleet and open mexican and peruvian ports to them
Curious how technology that would make such empires functional only appeared when they all perished.
>>18207749>the Iberian peninsula is not conducive to early industrializationWhy not? There's enough coal and iron in the north, you only need the knowledge required to start it.
>>18207781Yep. Spain had a perfect submarine prototype when the 1898 war happened.
>>18207738>make sure all the jews are out of the fucking empire>establish paper currency like the chinese to preserve their silver and gold from leaving the empire at a minimum>no interest rate loans>stay the fuck out of european wars that are a blackhole of no gains>focus spending only on main trade routes >stop autistically trying to control everything and everywhere>Don't marry into the Habsburgs >give incentives for settlers to go about aggressive expansion into undeveloped lands like the english did>establish a public stock exchange like the dutch >Keep church and state separate so your civilians don't stagnate economically and innovative tech>For the love of God bleach the populations to what a quadroon is at the minimum and neuter the male slaves like the arabs did
>>18207738Revert to Islam and ally the Ottomans instead of going bankrupt fighting them on behalf os Austrian masters
>>18207817You have mixed up the meanings of preventing and accelerating.
>>18207791The climate and already urbanized population. Early industrialization relies on a large rural population that is suffering from agriculture becoming unprofitable. These workers are the only ones who'd tolerate the hellish existence that was early industrialization and even the temperate Spanish climate would render most early industrial revolution era factories impractical as they were sweltering death traps>>18207781Basically what this anon said applies
>>18207829I will never get the point of these farfetched economical arguments, what truly drove early industry forward was thermodynamic efficiency, everything else is secondary at most and often just tertiary.
>>18207808>make sure all the jews are out of the fucking empireThat was like the very first thing they did when the empire began.
>>18207906They brought some back (covert "converts" christians) to deal with the slave shipping and a sort of renaissance of literature and administrative duties due to needing someone to translate the arabs scribbles.
>>18207738win the war of the spanish succession
>>18207738Pivot 100% to the Americas. Give equal rights to the colonists, stay out of all European affairs, hell move the capital to Havanna or somewhere. It will become more of an American empire than a Spanish one but at least it might not fracture.
>>18208842Yes becoming a Britain of the South. Ignoring all old world and focusing on colonial New World affairs would fix it, it would make the country considerably richer in modern times
>>18208986It wouldn't fix shit, because Iberian vices would still cause the downfall of the empire sooner or later no matter what. Remember that the greatest resource a nation has is its people.
>>18207738Nothing Sephardi Jewish refugees were right about Asspain
>>18208986The Habsburgs not taking the throne would've resulted in this
It was easy broJust let evey vicekingdom make its own rules & governments, and acept the peninsula was no longer capable of ruling them
>>18207738>don't terror burn heretics, focus on university facilities>demand napoleon not to be a retard with invading>don't siege the netherlands, take it immediately>zurge rush northern germany to cut off the reformation>ally with the safavids against the ottomans>ignore portugal
>>18209433this isn't eu4
>>18209417>Vd. sabe que yo he mandado veinte años y de ellos no he sacado más que pocos resultados ciertos:>1)La América es ingobernable para nosotros.>2)El que sirve una revolución ara en el mar.>3)La única cosa que se puede hacer en América es emigrar.>4)Este país [Colombia] caerá infaliblemente en manos de la multitud desenfrenada, para después pasar a tiranuelos casi imperceptibles, de todos colores y razas.
>>18207738The OG Spanish Empire's decline was inevitable, but the Post-Napoleonic Empire was super-savable. All Spaniards have to do was LITERALLY grant citizenship to Cubans, Porto Ricans, and Filipinos. They were fucking asking for it even. But no, race autism & Liberal Vs. Royalist shitflinging got in the way & Spics lost their last remaining territories.
>>18209483>grant citizenship to Cubans, Porto Ricans, and FilipinosBeing outvoted by Freddy Marcos from Luzon sounds much worse for Spain than losing the empire kek
>>18209491Freddy Marcos providing you with a spot to trade with Asian markets and willing to rabidly fight commies from you (Filipinos are retard-tier conservatives) is a big plus for le King and le Church.
>>18209519Huh? Do you think the Philipines is in Signapore? They are trade nobodies in east Asia, they rely heavilly on flips abroad sending money back home
>>18209526Everyone and his mom in the 1800s Europe wanted a colony in Asia. Spain literally had it and all they did was squander it with Landlordism and Trade Monopolies as the Spanish mind cannot comprehend other ways of making money besides farming cash crops.
>>18209476Mexico supera a españita en economia, industria y demografia
>>18209519More like they would ally with the left to vote themselves infinite gibs and destroy the economy like how browns in every single European country vote.
>>18209558>More like they would ally with the left That was what happened historically, stupid, considering the "left" back then was Classical Liberal politics.Also>Spain>Functioning economyLoLe.
>>18207791>CoalTry transporting that shit before railroads were invented, lmao. Spain only has one navigable river and it does not directly connect to the coal mines. Other countries have coal fucking everythere.
>>18209650*everywhere
>>18209554>¡Pobre México, tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca de los Estados Unidos!I'm not even Spanish though.>>18209650Industry pretty much always appeared first in the areas where the coalfields where, navigable rivers are not a requirement.
>>18207738Allow Castizos into government, gradually abolish the racial caste system, fully implement Bourbon Enlightenment reforms regarding science (especially mining related ones so they can work smarter not harder), liberalize government around the time of the French Revolution to that of a Constitutional Monarchy, liberalize slavery (e.g ban slave trade, mandate that slaves are freed after x years in service, etc)
>>18209739Meant Criollos for the first one, but eventually the others including Castizos would be allowed anyway
>>18209526The Philippines can leverage their position as the shortest route for ships from the Americas to Asia to control trade with the Americas.
>>18207817>Revert to Islam and ally the OttomansJust because a state was Islamic doesn't mean the Ottomans were eager to ally with them. The Spanish might still feel obliged to keep them bottled up in the Mediterranean. I mean that's what Morroco did.
>>18207738Secularize early on. Spains problem was that their Empire was an ill-fated attempt at creating the Muslim Empire: Catholic Edition, and they didn't focus enough on proper state building like Anglos did
>>18209692>I'm not even Spanish though.Poscolonial LATAM ungovernability stemmed from the fact that the Metropolis always frustated any local noble-feudal-landlord aristocracy. First by banning the encomienda, then the bourbon reforms severly weakened the indian nobility, in order to concentrate all the power in the Crown functionaries, who were always upstarts who only wanted to get rich and return to the Peninsula.When LATAM achieved independence thus, the criollo elite had no land-lord elites or indian nobility to base their government upon, thats why you get lots of caudillos & civil wars In fact, this is an issue that has been affecting LATAM even from those times.By contrast, when the english conquered india or china, they never quite in fact removed all the landlord elites, but made them submit to the new colonial administration, so after the independence the landlords simply changed loyalties to the new nation-state (in the case of chine they were directly executed and their place replaced by state-bureaucrat.So spanish colonialism had its advtanges (such as mestizaje, catholic humanism, etc) but it also had lots of disadvantages that would later cripple the latam nation-states
>>18207738Impossible.Spain was the weak kid with the underbite picking on the 1st graders.Look at the map.They literally didn't take a single challenging area, exclusively opting for the easiest conquests on earth. Honestly only people they were missing are the abos.Compare this to the frogs/anglos who colonized the harshest climates and the areas with the strongest organized resistance- the frozen storm swept costs of NA ana Canada, the million strong armies of india (with metal), huge legions of African tribes that attacked collectively,And look as spain, colonizing temperate or balmy climes with abundant foods and stone age peoples who bent over to 400 guys with horses. It was never a contest. Spain was always a paper tiger.
>>18207738>implying Spain could have prevented its declineYour entire premise is pure COPIUM. Empire fell because of brainlet-tier Habsburg inbreeding leading to Charles II, silver from the New World causing massive inflation (google price revolution), fighting endless wars against Chad Protestant Netherlands, England, and France simultaneously, and expelling the based Jews and Moriscos who actually knew how to run an economy.No amount of doing something different after 1600 fixes this. It was over the second they decided to crusade instead of industrialize. Skill issue + L + no conquistadors + didn't embrace mercantilism.
>>18207738Merge what is today Chile, Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay into Rio de la Plata (removing Bolivia) and proceed to colonize it with pure Spanish stock, expelling the natives inland like the US did.
>>18207738unironically I think you just gotta move the capital into the new world and stop dumping money into the blackhole known as Spain
>>18210306Expelling the Moriscos was needed, they would have served as a fifth column. And the Spanish empire fell in the early 1800s, two hundred years after what you discussed
>>18210454>And the Spanish empire fell in the early 1800sSixty years ago they still had Equatorial Guineaand West Sahara.
>>18210305>huge legions of African tribes that attacked collectively,I watched Zulu. Are you really proud of that chickenshit behaviour? No honor. No real soldiers.>And look as spain, colonizing temperate or balmy climes with abundant foods and stone age peoples who bent over to 400 guys with horses.Go read a history book, my friend.
>>18210305>And look as spain, colonizing temperate or balmy climes with abundant foods and stone age peoples who bent over to 400 guys with horsesSpaniards had it more difficult.Mesoamericans and andeans were definitive not in the stone age. They had huge armies, huge cities that supplied these armies and most importantly the technology that the castillians brought was of second or third grade quality, most of the time they fought with "armas de la tierra" meaning they choose the cottton gambeson of the mesoamericans.The technological disparity during the conquest is greatly exgaerated.By contrat the english were already using steam powered industrial machinery when they conquered india. This was in Fact a GREAT colossal technological disparity
>>18210454They were not, but they joined the Corsair pirates for revenge for what the inquisition did to them
>>18211206Not a big deal, if they stayed they would have stolen from and raped the women without even having to get on a boat>>18210305Sure India was harder as well as Egypt but lets not act like the Zulus or these other african tribes were some mighty enemy. The Spanish fought the 2 strongest empires of the Americas, much stronger that the people we dealt with in the Americas.>>18211108Thats hardly an empire!
>>18211206>for revenge for what the inquisition did to themIt was the other way around, even before Islam arrived to the Maghreb, they were engaging in raids against other parts of the Mediterranean.
>>18207738>Build backup capital in a New World nation in case shit hits the fan>Keep breeding the the spanish natives with the new world natives until I've "conquered by blood">offer better bonuses to settlers so more come to the new world.>Go full force or become extremely defensive and with predjudice against the British before they propagate "the black legend">Remove the Hasburgs, their retarded spawns are too harmful to the empire future>find a way to manage the economy so that it doesn't tank>support Russia in assraping Napoleon and his Free Masons from taking over the world>oversee the better treatment of slaves and of newly conquered people so they don't have a reason to revolt>do better job at assmilating the people into the empire better instead of just treating Latin America as a slave plantation >Don't let Jews or converts back into the empire>if a naval skirmishes arise or if I need more help in expanding my territory then I will consider forming some sort of alliance with the Basque since they're good at sailing (backburner idea but possible)>see if I can make some new alliances and deals with the Native Americans to act as another line of defense in keeping any impending nation at bay and away from my territoryThe Afterstory:>Years later after the empire has survived into a more technological age I would invest heavily into nuclear power>Use newly discovered tech and nuclear power knowledge to create mechanical "power suits" for combat purposes>Add wheels to "power suits" >Call them "Knightmares">Take over the world with my army of Knightmares >:}
>>18209692>Industry pretty much always appeared first in the areas where the coalfields where, navigable rivers are not a requirement.Spain’s coal deposits are small, poor-quality, and expensive to mine; and most of Spain’s population and traditional manufacturing centres (Castile, Andalusia, Catalonia, Valencia) were hundreds of kilometres away from any usable coal. The North was very sparsely populated during the Industrial Revolution.
>>18209739The smartest men in Spain tried to push softer reforms than this, and it led to bloody civil wars and lots of brain drain.
>>18211108That's nothing, bruh. Denmark has big ass Greenland to this day. Are they an empire?
>>18212181>Are they an empire?By the anglo definition? Yes, they are. And to be fair, Denmark is kind of dumb for never using Greenland in any kind of way. They basically are wasting money on it instead of getting some goodies from it. Might as well sell it to Trump for a quick buck, then.
>>18207738get rid of the hyperdecadent aristocracy. they literally considered working as an insult and something beneath them, so they were completely, absolutely, just impenitent leeches of the empire. they needed strong statesmen and shrewd diplomats and competent administrators, not a bunch of inbred retards squatting in giant resorts doing nothing and watching their nation slide into stagnancy.
>>18209433>don't terror burn heretics, focus on university facilitiesThe "burn all heretics!" is a meme and a nothingburguer, while the spaniards actually founded several universities in comparison with other empires in the region.>demand napoleon not to be a retard with invadingHe was always going to invade Spain, he despised the Bourbons and never trusted Ferdinand since day one. If any, Ferdinand was a retard for trusting him first. He should have joined the coalitions into attacking Napoleon, instead.>don't siege the netherlands, take it immediatelyThey tried too, but things got way too complicated along the way. Including some german princes and England and France joining the war on the dutch side.>zurge rush northern germany to cut off the reformationThey also tried that, but again, external nations like England, France and Sweden started to side with the Protestans. Charles had a bit of a chance if he was more ruthless and killed Luther before he went to Saxony, but that probably wouldn't have changed things much, and Calvin was still there stirring shit up and he was way worse than Luther in that regard.>ally with the safavids against the ottomansEh, I don't know a lot about that region of the world, but I think the Safavids were not exactly the most stable empire in the region. I am more surprised they didn't make an alliance with Russia. Hell, Russia actually sided with the Protestants, for some reason.>ignore portugalPortugal was an important part of the Empire and was part of the national mythos of the peninsula being united once again. Besides Philip II was actually the designated heir to the portuguese throne, no matter how much revisionists want to argue otherwise. And the majority of portuguese nobles actually liked him, it was his descendants the ones who fucked things up.
>>18207738It's quite easy:>Focus on reconquering north africa, genociding all moors like they did in the peninsula up to the levant.>Consolidate Italy and take over the ottomans.>Stay away from religious wars in Europe by not marrying into german autistic dynasties.>Exploit america without investing a single coin on converting the natives or building any infrastructure that isn't dedicated to exploit resources. Do the same in africa and asia eventually.Only the usual internal decline would remain which is not possible to solve in any civilization.
>>18207738Reject Christkikery and create a stronger Iberian identity. Reject christcuck morality and values and choose secular humanism.
>>18207808They collapsed because they went against the Jews.
>>18212465Catholicism is an integral part of the Spanish identity, like in Ireland and Poland. And the regimes that rejecting Catholicism and went secular have been the worst ones in Spain's history: the first republic, the second republic, the anarchists, the commies, all the crap did more damage than help.
>>18207738>What do you do?Move capital and entire country to Mexico. Tax everything on Iberian peninsula by 50% tax. Concentrate on building one country, cut of colonies when they apear to be burden.Ban race-mixing. Non whites cant own property in Mexico by law.
>>18212472>the first republic, the second republic, the anarchists, the commies, all the crap did more damage than help.As if they were much worse than everything else of the time. Spain had its golden age as catholic, and afterwards it was on the level of other European powers. But it could have easily found other values. Nowadays Spain is just as secular as the other European nations. It can do without catholicism just like it could do in the past.
>>18207829>Early industrialization relies on a large rural population that is suffering from agriculture becoming unprofitable. These workers are the only ones who'd tolerate the hellish existence that was early industrialization and even the temperate Spanish climate would render most early industrial revolution era factories impractical as they were sweltering death trapsBunch of marxist nonsense.
>>18212480>Nowadays Spain is just as secular as the other European nations.True, and the whole country is having an identity crisis as a result.
>>18209739>fully implement Bourbon Enlightenment reformsThose ruined the empire, though. Those reforms were good for the metropole but bad for everywhere outside the peninsula and were one of the main reasons the american nations revolted.The Bourbon Reforms were the equivalent to the Intolerable Acts the Brits implemented in their colonies and which only cause the Americans to revolt.
>>18207738preventing the fall is one thing. preventing decline is another totally distinct and much more complicated matter. one thing to do would be to totally move away from the obsession of iberian-centric control over the empire. latin american creoles were absolutely determined to rebel when the cortes of cadiz were drawn in such a way that fucking aragon had the same amount of representatives as the entirety of new spain. if the empire had shifted into some sort of multi-polar state that recognized the very important autonomy its colonies had developed instead of trying to reign in control in the manner of europe's enlightened despots we would be in much a different world.as a reminder, spain refused to send a royal when mexican conservative leaders invited the spanish monarchy to rule over the newly established mexican constitutional monarchy.
>>18210305Idiot, it is much more difficult for an European to fight in tropical climate than fighting in cold weather. The firearms did not work in the humid climates of central America while they indians used obsidiana swords that were more efficient than the steel swords.Plus the dozens of tropical diseases, plus the logistics of carrying horses or cattle in tropical jungles. Plus a lot of wilder animals (there are chronicles talking about how many Spaniards (and amerindians) died because of pumas.
>>18207808>make sure all the jews are out of the fucking empireOP said to make it last, not end it even sooner, Ferdinand
>>18212467Other way around, the empire started when they were kicked out. Besides Poland actually was a safe haven for them, and what did that help them in the long run?
>>18207766>>18209173This, Trastamaras >>>>> Habsburgs, and even Ferdinand knew this
>>18212927Exactly, and I don't even like the Spanish but is tragic how their country went bankrupt to fight meme wars on behalf of their Austrian masters
>>18212944>Austrian mastersThose "austrian" were already 50% Spanish and the only reason why the Spanish Empire achieved so much is because of common Spaniards (Conquistadores, Navigators, explorers, burocrats, etc).And the Spanish Empire would had been even more powerful if the Catholic Kings line continue impoluted.
>>18207738>What do you do?I create a stable government with high quality institutions, so that people have no reason to revolt. >rule of law>free market>individual freedoms>stable money supplyIn that scenrio nobody would even care who's n charge, because life is comfy. And to make it OP, I'd introduce anti-miscegenation laws, to prevent the Paraguaization of the popultion.
>sociological explanationsGeography was against Spain. No internal reforms or great man of history could change the raw physical disadvantages they faced as the industrial revolution progressed and changed the game. They needed droves of cheap laborers, preferably near the coast, and vast plains of grain to feed them, which they did not have on the scale of northern countries. Their decline could only be slowed and mistakes avoided that led to a total political split, rather like how Australia and Britain were de facto independent yet loyal to Britain and sent troops in ww1 and ww2.The critical period would be around 1750 as the industrial revolution began to pick up and before the Napoleonic wars. Even without hindsight bias it was obvious Britain was further ahead, observers travelling between London and Paris could see Britain's rising middle class and early industry outmanufacturing the rest of Europe. Spain could never compete with British heavy industry, however they would be quick to receive cheap iron and new machines to bolster their light industry, they would receive British financing both in Spain and the colonies and establish deeper ties. Britain was protestant of course, but this was long after the Peace of Westphalia and the decline of the Pope and Catholic alliances in international affairs. Britain may also be interested in Spanish support against America, if the timeline doesn't shift so much that America doesn't push for independence.France would no doubt steamroll Spain, but like the Netherlands the key here is that Spain developed ties with Britain and boosted its economy, undergoing enlightenment era reforms before the crisis. All the time the British would be trading with Spanish colonies and they would all view themselves as being on the same side against Napoleon or whoever rules France and starts this inevitable contest.
>>18213022Grains used to be grown in a noticeably more widespread fashion in many regions of Spain only some decades ago. A modern map is not going to be of help here.>>18212492It's not.
>>18212463>Focus on reconquering north africa, genociding all moors like they did in the peninsula up to the levant.North Africans were nothing like the fruity muslims in the peninsula. You want the Spanish Empire to disolve way earlier. France, like a vulture, was happy to see Spain bleed fighting the turks on the sea and on the african coasts in out timeline. A full blown conquest is out of the question.
>>18213232>North Africans were nothing like the fruity muslims in the peninsula.Lol, attention everyone, we have a comedian in the thread.
>>18207738>PreventNo one in their senses would try to prevent the fall of that giant piece of shit. In fact, a more interesting question would be how to make it decline faster.
>>18213390The Muslims in the peninsula had to import nafri mercenaries because couldn't fight on their own, yet even that bought them 450 extra years of existence in Europe. Multiply that several times over and that’s what Spain would have faced had they ever tried to conquer North Africa.
>>18213447During the emirate and the caliphate they could easily hold the the christian kingdoms of the north at bay, but when shit hit the fan and the caliphate fragmented into tens of small petty kingdoms they couldn't withstand them anymore. Plus, they did not import north Africans, the Almoravids invaded the peninsula anyway.
>>18207738>not ruin my currency by being retarded and spiritually brown Simple as. Hard to believe America has refused to learn this very simple and obvious lesson. The Price Revolution is both critically misunderstood and largely not talked about simultaneously while, being one of the most important things to have ever happened. It was not caused by overproduction of materials as some very Jewish souls assert but the manipulation of currency by oligarchies (which usually included a monarch and a central bank and state-adjascent companies). Exact same bullshit is happening right now globally because the dollar and basically all currencies that exist follow the same demonic trends.
>>18213461>Plus, they did not import north Africans, the Almoravids invaded the peninsula anyway.The takeover began as a requested intervention with around 12.000 Berber soldiers that obliterated Alfonso VI's army before the Almoravids turned on the peninsulars and fucked them silly.
>>18207738The map is fake>California was not colonised until late XVIII century and only the coast, not the deep California>Spain never conquered Patagonia>Spain only controlled Nueva Orleans, Penzacola, Mavila and San Agustín; not deep Luisiana nor Florida>Bahamas and Haiti were part of the Empire>Spain never conquered Mindanao (Filipinas)>Spain never conquered Esequibo>Spain never conquered Nutka>in 1790, Belice was owned by UK>1790, Mosquitia (former UK colony-ally) was an independent kingdom, Spain never conquered it
>>18213531Were there even any spanish settlements past the north of San Francisco? lol
>>182135451 or 2 isolated forts, nothing more. The worst part is seeing "nationalist spanirds" chimping out when they see a western movie and the indians don't speak Spanish, aren't catholics (or syncretic pagan-catholics to show "moral supremacy" over "intolerant anglo-protestantism") nor look mixed like the "Latinos".Or chimping out when the western movies show how LA was under Spaniard / Mexican rule as a little desert-hole villa instead of the modern-day metropolis.
>>18213597>The worst part is seeing "nationalist spanirds" chimping out when they see a western movie and the indians don't speak Spanish, aren't catholics (or syncretic pagan-catholics to show "moral supremacy" over "intolerant anglo-protestantism") nor look mixed like the "Latinos".Gerónimo is a spanish name. Like many other apaches and sioux he was baptized and spoke spanish.In Fort Apache, by John Ford, they speak spanish:https://youtu.be/4iPdrjg5OlwAlso, they looked like many mexicans (the less mixed ones, i guess).And finally, believe me, "nationalistic spaniards" don't give a fuck about this.
>>18213232Sorry Hassan, nafris have never been considered great warriors ever. A couple arabs raped their asses and continue to rule them ever since.
>>18213531Whoa, a person who actually read history.
>>18213795>Gerónimo is a spanish name. Like many other apaches and sioux he was baptized and spoke spanish.Anon, the Spanization was not a mainstream phenomenon, you don't have entire tribes acting like "mini-Spains" against the anglo-conquest.Gerónimo acted like a catholic spanish-speaking to Spaniard / Mexican authorities, which were weak so the larp was not something obnoxious to him, for his own people he acted as always.In the film you have linked you can see he speaks Spanish because it was a "civilised" language, so the dialogue with yankis (many former mexicans) was easy than talking in his native language.Particular cases, even if they were leaders, didn't mean a cultural change for the entire tribes. That's what I was talking about.>And finally, believe me, "nationalistic spaniards" don't give a fuck about this.You will be surprised about the things you can find in the Internet.
>>18213545>>18213597>1 or 2 isolated forts, nothing more.Same crap happened in Africa, yet no one argues about the control the european powers had in those lands.
>>18214078You can see the political, cultural, economical and technological impact of europeans in Africa since 1885.You can't say the same about spaniards in deep North America.
>>18214085>You can see the political, cultural, economical and technological impact of europeans in Africa since 1885.When decolonization happened some african areas were still tribal in nature. Hell, some regions still had their ceremonial tribal "kings" as semi-feudal lords.>You can't say the same about spaniards in deep North America.There was some, but the Americans erased every trace of it. Same as with the Philippines.
>>18214103>There was someYeah, around those isolated port-cities and forts.>but the Americans erased every trace of it.Exactly, because their weak impact.
Do you guys want to know why Latin America speaks Spanish, but not Belgium, the Philippines, etc.? It’s because the Criollos wanted it that way. Spanish wasn’t even the most widely spoken language in most of those territories before independence. The Spanish American elites (Criollos) decided that Spanish would be the national language of nearly all the new countries (with the notable exception of Paraguay), and that was that.Spanish was just an administrative language of the ruling class.
>>18207738>Spanish EmpireSpain just landed on a rock and said "this is ours" and then told everyone about it without actually developing anything anywhere.too busy napping i guess.
>>18212463>>18213232>>18213447>>18213461Spain could have followed the Reconquista into the Maghreb after the 1500s, but there was no point in doing it.
>>18212463Reconquering from its indigenous peoples? And spics tried to genocide our Maghrebi ahki in OTL, ask Hernan Cortez who was captured like a bitch how well it went, they came like cowards, massacred innocent civilians in Tunis and Morocco then fled like rats once Ottomans approached never to step foot in the Maghreb again besides two meme cities
>>18210305both conquered weak nativesgreeks conquered greatest superpower at the time, the achamenids, as well as other formidable opponents in mena.romans conquered strong europeans like gauls.
>>18215048>greeks conquered greatest superpower at the timeWrong, Macedonians did
>>18207738Here's a better photo with more than 10 pixels.
Avoid Napoleon. He single-handedly destroyed everything Spain accomplished to that date.
>>18215023>innocent>muslimsKWAB
>>18213094>Grains used to be grown in a noticeably more widespread fashion in many regions of SpainWhat? Do you really think because they grew a small amount of grain this proves Spain was just as productive as France and Britain in the 18th century?I was searching for a map more accurate than slop like this where you have a sudden change from oceanic to Mediterranean, I didn't go into detail explaining the specifics of the map because I was giving /his/ the benefit of the doubt that you can think for yourself and won't be nitpicking cunts. The map shows how different Spain's climate is, which of course modern commercial farms react to and this is all that is relevant to the discussion.
>>18215611>Avoid Napoleon. He single-handedly destroyed everything Spain accomplished to that date.He didn't. The viceroyalties stayed loyal during the invasion. Shit hit the fan when Ferdinand VII ordered the royalist army to attack the autonomic juntas in order to restore absolutist colonial rule by force, despite being unable to send the necessary amount of reinforcements because the Armada was reduced to a joke.
>>18215197>Includes the Portuguese Empire (completely different administration with different laws. Same King, different empire), explored land, and claimed places no Spaniard ever governed or enforced their laws in, like the Amazon rainforest and the Patagonia. All from different eras to make Spain look like some sort of super-empire.What a meme map.
>>18215677>The viceroyalties stayed loyal during the invasion.Not true. Bolívar, San Martín, O'Higgins and company started to stir up the whole thing way before Ferdinand VII came to power, when he was still captive in Bayonne.
>>18215644Yes, no such thing as innocent judeochristians tho
>>18215797>christians are the enemy!!1K, thanks for proving my point I guess?Now go and take delight in your stupidity, you earned it.
>>18215821>judeochristian mock my post of judeochristian spics slaughtering muslim civilians>I claim yes they are evil and the enemy>BOOHOO YOU'RE VICTIMIZING USThe judeochristian cries out in pain as they drive a sword to your chest and cannibalize your corpse
>>18215779San Martín was a Spanish officer during most of the Napoleonic Wars! When he returned to South America, he fought against peninsular royalists who were trying to restore direct Spanish authority and suppress the local autonomous government. Ferdinand VII’s absolutist restoration made the situation worse and swung elite support behind San Martín’s full independence plans. Bolívar had almost no support from the Venezuelan elite until Ferdinand’s absolutist restoration convinced them that a negotiated autonomy with Spain was impossible.
>>18213817>you don't have entire tribes acting like "mini-Spains"Spanish empire was never culturally (nor ethnically) homogeneus; just religiously.That is the reason of the term Spains (plural). Cuba is not a mini-Spain; Argentina is not a mini-Spain: New Spain (Mexico) is not a mini-Spain... They are very different from each other. Even in the Iberian Peninsula, there are different cultures (north and south / west and east); different "Spains".Galician music:https://youtu.be/TekIICLigcIBasque music:https://youtu.be/DYlEk9k0JzAAndalusian music:https://youtu.be/LUv-O_0JS_I?list=RDLUv-O_0JS_I
>>18212054>The smartest men in Spain tried to push softer reforms than this, and it led to bloody civil wars and lots of brain drain.Expand pls.
>>18211757>Keep breeding the the spanish natives with the new world natives until I've "conquered by blood"How is it possible that still in 2025 some people on 4chan don't understand that cou can't build anything with a 85 IQ mystery mutt population. If the empire was to survive, an absolute prohibition on intermarriage should be implemented.
>>18212467Nigga thinks jews are the main characters of history who control the world like Gods
>>18212492All of Europe is having an identity crisis
>>18207829>Early industrialization relies on a large rural population that is suffering from agriculture becoming unprofitable.What a bunch of mechanistic nonsense. Industrialization is enabled by one guy who figures out how to make a lot of things using machines with low cost. Other factors like a vibrant capital market and a relatively wealthy population can fasten the rate of industrialization, but it always starts with the invention.
>>18215826The Iraqis raped tens of thousands of their own supposed people, their leaders son even used to patrol around his university looking for girls to rape. Muslims do not have any morality that is why they focus on the rare cases of Christians doing wrong, because at least the Christian will agree its wrong the Muslim does not even recognise rape as being wrong unless a foreigner does it to one of his women. They will happily rape their own children if they can
You can and they did. Spainards didn't build shit without having some sort of cheap or free labor to do the work for them. Breeding them into half breeds or Eurobloods is the best solution until Euros learn how to breed themselves into high enough numbers to populate the new continent. And by treating the halfbloods better they have less of a reason to actually revolt against an empire that only seeks to exploit them.
>>18216801Meant 4U>>18216009
>>18216025Because all of them keep rejecting our Lord and Saviour.
>>18207738Convert to Islam Ally the ottomans, Mamluks and Golden Horde.Fuck up my enemies
>>18207791Cuz they’re lazy bastards that spend 6 hours a day sitting around eating and don’t get out of bed before 9.Only Protestant Europe had the right culture
>>18214856>Spain just landed on a rock and said "this is ours"That's England's way, anon.
>>18217269Spain didn't even control the Canary Islands until it landed there in the 1400s, claimed it was theirs and genocided the natives.
>>18210305This. I never understood the hype. The brownoids that British and frogs fought actually had metal weapons, gunpowder from merchants, and in some cases even small navies. Spaniards only fought half of the primitives they encountered because the other half instantly died the moment a Spaniard sneezed.
>>18215718Portugal was effectively part of Spain during the iberian union, cope about it
>>18217309Spain (actually Castile) claimed the Canary Islands as theirs once control was strong enough to be recognized by the other kingdoms.Unlike England, like with Rockall, which no one lives there yet they it is somehow British clay.
>>18216044Why do judeochristians love to project their crimes, (lack of) morals and atrocities onto the people they victimize? Uday was a wicked man and hated and condemned by Iraqis and even Saddam himself, and the only group of people with 0 morals and human decency are judeochristians who have countless genocides and atrocities on their backs from the holocaust of natives americans to crusaders cannibalizing innocents, rape is also condoned by judeochristian noahide lawAnd current events in Palestine shows who the real monsters are, but as I said, judeochristians have a tendency of projecting their own depravity onto their victims, the same was done to the native americans, aboriginals and the same they do to muslims
>>18217386>The brownoids that British and frogs fought actually had metal weapons, gunpowder from merchants, and in some cases even small naviesThis was the era when Europeans already were two or three tiers above everyone else. That's the reason of why Anglos conquered Zanzibar in less than an hour.The medieval era still had the Iberians fight natives with melee weapons 1 vs 1 because guns were unreliable as fuck and gunpowder barely worked on hot, humid climates.
>>18217439No the spanish used cannons, arquebuses and plate armor against naked people armed with slingshots and spears
>>18217442You must be kidding. You need to read about how the conquests of the Aztec and Inca empires happened. It was nothing like you said.
>>18217470But EU4 shows that's how the natives were conquered
>>18210305>Compare this to the frogs/anglos who colonized the harshest climates and the areas with the strongest organized resistanceVietnam was in large part conquered jy Spanish soldiers btw. Same Vietnal where Anglos and French got btfo by Hoh Chi Minh pbuh
>>18217502>Vietnam was in large part conquered jy Spanish soldiers btwHuh? When did this happen?
>>18217269>its true if you ignore all the reasons why it isnt!
>>18215849>Galician music:gay>Basque music:very cool>Andalusian music:neat
>>18207837They're not economic arguments so much as arguments about WHY people would be driven to use coal. Like, traditionally the industrial revolution is understood to have started in Britain, but it was a circular kind of beginning. The steam pump that Thomas Savery designed was to pump water out of coal mines. So the mining of the coal wasn't motivated by the invention of steam engines, it was already being mined and then somebody invented engines to better mine coal. So the the question is why we're the British already big coal miners before the industrial revolution? And the traditional answer to that is, they were running out of firewood and coal was a highly available local natural resource to replace it for burning. Of course, all of these factors are highly contingent. It isn't to say Britian was destined to make steam engines to mine coal. But in the literal historical question of WHY it happened the way it REALLY did, you look at all of the factors. It was a cold country that had a big coal industry because of the availability of coal deposits to replace firewood, which were situated along navigable rivers and tended to flood, and the state of technical knowledge and metallurgy at the time allowed for a man like Thomas Savery to solve the problem by designing a steam powered pump. Then this kicked off a bunch of eurekas for other steam powered mechanisms. But I would say that any explanation that tries to attribute it to a socio-political "system" or the ideology underpinning some regime's story of why its power is legitimate is unserious bullshit trying to propagandize you for something. A Marxist story is trying to convince you it can explain it in such a way the helps predict the future, and a liberal institutional story is trying to take credit for it so you don't criticize the political regime of liberalism. What there is is the historical facts of the contingencies that pushed Britain to industrialization.
>>18216017>"The most powerful force in the world is compound interest"-Albert Einstein
>>18217435Since you are from pakistan you know im right since you were likely molested in the masjid whilst being a kid. and if uday was considered wicked by saddam then why did saddam continue to give him free reign? it makes no sense at all. and no Jesus did not allow rape that is why Christian civilisation was the only one to not allow the rape of foreigners although some may have done it it was condemned , furthermore the natives were generally not genocided, the land was taken over and the natives continued to live there after being defeated, since they lived so sparsley this was perfectly possible.
>>18215197>>18215718Half of the lands of the map were NEVER owned by Spain.>>18217393No, it wasn't, same shit with the HRE under Carlos I, the HRE was never part of Spain.
>>18216801>Spainards>do the work for themYou said it yourself. The locals doing the work for Spaniards. Well, guess what - if there's intermixing everywhere, after a whil, there's no Spaniards - only halfbreeds. That's the entire point..
>>18217435>and current events in Palestine shows who the real monsters areYou mean the real winners. Cope and seethe, but some people simply have 0 tolerancy for islam (as it should be). You want to turn the world into a gigantic syria well fuck you.
>>18218359>he thinks the kikes are doing what they're doing because of religion you fucking retard
>>18217962You sound like a complete twat.
>>18218058Rabbi Yeshua himself diddled teens at the garden of gethsemane and sais he came to reinforce noahide laws that condone rape, and I was not molested in fact infant molestation at churches is a judeochristian thing>>18218359>winning is shooting babies for funJudeochristian evil knows no boundaries, and these ""people"" have the nerve to point fingers
>>18218351>don't intermix>leave only a small population of Spaniards and a large population of Natives around>Spaniards still outnumbered by their slaves because they don't breed with eachother or one another>Natives now really have no connection or relation with Spaniards and their foreign culture>Enemy nation takes advantage of this>Spaniards deal with slave revolt sooner than expected and get their shit kicked in when it turns out they're heavily outnumbered and the crown doesn't have enough capital or manpower to do anything about it.The point of breeding with them isn't just to assimilate them into the crown and its culture. It's to increase their numbers when they know they're constantly getting into wars with their neighbors. Without intermixing of some kind the Natives have no reason to learn Spanish and Spanish culture when its associated with slave drivers. Without intermixing the Spaniards will have no reason to improve the Native workers conditions and thus the rest of the New World since no development is being done outside another plantation, mine, or maybe just a small town or two of only Spaniards. Without the the creation of halfbreeds and maybe even one day fullbloods with enough mixing, to do the heavy work for them then all they have are Native fullbloods that truly resent them and will have a repeat of the fall of Tenochtitlan the second a new foreign European power shows up to "free them". Like say their power hungry neighbor the British that had already created the Black Legend as a way to ruin Spains public perception and reputation except this time it'll all be true. Or maybe they'll just get fed up and revolt like the Haitians did only in larger numbers and with better organization. Fortunately for the Natives they're actually from the region so in the case of a full slave revolt they'll have no problem with going back and forming a society, except now they have a large supply and knowledge of guns, iron, and horses!
>>18208115>>18207808you're not spanish sanchez you're a lowly triracial mexican mongrel
>>18210243tradcath schizo larpers will seethe at this trvke
>>18208115>conquistadors>racistsThey weren't racists, though. That's a modern reinterpretation of those events. Usually under the anglo/german optics of history.The spanish usually respected the american cultures and knew damn well they were formidable opponents.There is a reason the Tlaxcalans were "exported" to other regions of Mexico and even were made soldiers to fight in other regions of the world.
>>18210293>Criollo elite had no land-lord elitesDid haciendas not exist? Did caciques and kurkas not exist? Bolivar himself was one of the biggest landlords in all of Spanish America. If anything, the problem was that entrenched land-holding elites, who cared primarily about pursuing their own interests, and having basis of power (in the form of land and clients) made civil war unavoidable (liberal and conservatives factions fighting it out non-stop, representing certain oligarchies). With the crown no longer there to keep everyone under control, it became a battle between the criollos to either consolate their own power (federalism) or rule over others (centralism). These groups of landed magnates were and continue to be the main cause of the chaos in the region. And the states they founded reflect this well, often being used to pursue and legitimize their own interests. Hence why all these states are artificial, they are simply a product of 'agreements' between different groups of magnates in each region based in inherited routes of extraction (Quito -> Guayaquil, All of Peru -> Lima, Rio de la Plata basin -> Buenos Aires, etc)
>>18219412>Did haciendas not exist?Hacendados arent landlords, they dont own the land. The land is consessioned to them by the state so they can yield economic values. A landlord doesnt even need a nobility title to carry on their enterprise. They dont have jurisdiction inside the Hacienda. Theorically, the rural workers (peones) could interpose a lawsuit against the hacendado if he doesnt follow state rules. Hacienda is an economic unit.Its very different from actual landed gentry (such as english feudal lords or spanish encomenderos) who had their own jurisdictions inside their land and who were granted serfs to work for him while his job was to christianize these serfs and protect them from other feudal lords.Hacendados have no real knowledge about governing, unlike feudal lords/landed gentry.
>>18207738*instead accelerates the decline of the spicn*sh empire*
>>18219462Based
>>18218848>triracial mexicanMexicans are barely biracial, though
>>18217797Like usual, France scammed Spain. They used spanish soldiers and their experience fighting in tropical landscapes to take over Vietnam. Spain got fuck all in return. Serves them right.
>>18220248>Spain got fuck all in returnWhich proved to be a blessing desu considering how the Vietnam experience turned out ultimately.
>>18220267France did nothing with Vietnam, anyway. One of the less french-like colonies of the french empire.
>>18220549>France did nothing with Vietnam, anywayThey imported a million of Vietnamese and other Indochinese in France. It's just that with all the africans nobody notice them
>>18220560Few know that in addition of hosting the largest subsaharan community, the largest muslim community, France also host the largest east asian community in Europe
>>18207738A very important step would be to prohibit him from becoming king.
>>18207738Open more taco stands
>>18220568>“Bro, Carlos, I love you. Get ready to succeed me as king after I’m gone. I’m sure you will become a great king.”>*Gets rid of the salic law before dying. Whatever happens is someone else's problem now*What a snake, lmao
>>18220665Fernando did everything wrong. It's incredible how he failed at making every decision he could make, choosing the worst possible outcome.
>>18207738Find Atlantishttps://www.instagram.com/reel/DRsSdLgiJqV/?igsh=MWltODhob2dkNDZiOA==
>>18218058>no Jesus did not allow rapeThe Bible never condemned rape. Holy fucking retard LARPer. At least read the book first.
>>18218754>leave only a small population of Spaniards and a large population of Natives aroundNever said that. I think they should be either put in camps, or sent to Africa, where a country would be created for them.
>>18213022>>sociological explanations>Geography was against SpainThey just needed to move country into Mexico away from pesky European warmongers>geo hack
>>18220897This. Basically do what the Braganças did except never go back to Europe and rule the Empire from Mexico.
>>18217962>So the the question is why we're the British already big coal miners before the industrial revolution?Because coal (coke) was used to iron production and British military required tons of iron for guns and cannonballs
>>18220926>Because coal (coke) was used to iron productionDidn't they also use wood?
Ok, now save the portuguese empire
>>18221421That's easy. See >>18220919Just keep the Braganças ruling from Rio de Janeiro and that's it.
Nothing. The fall of the spanish empire was the greatest thing to ever happen to humanity.
>Bro, just kill all the natives and replace them with spaniards bro, totally would have saved the Empire, bro.This shit would have killed the empire way earlier, really. Spanish Americans weren't cucked like their euro cousins, they fucking hated the control the Crown had over them. Luckily, there weren't that many of them to start a serious rebellion against the Empire until Napoleon lent them a hand.
>>18221421Make Brazil the metropole and Portugal the colony.
>>18209433Don't worry, anon. I got the joke.
>>18207738If I was Ferdinand VII, I'll take the L and accept the liberal constitution, Spain lots most it's american possessions because of his reject of the new Spanish Constitution
>Prevent the Habsburgs from ever getting into the throne>Ignore European conflicts. >Ally Portugal instead of trying to conquer them. They are more usefull as a counter balance to British and Dutch navies and would weaken their influence in East Trade and commerce>Ban slavery and prevent any africans from being taken to the Americas>Ban race mixing and promote Iberian population growth in the colonies. >Open migration to other European people's (assimilation programs similar to the Usa need to be followed though)>Ban jews and muslims from the Empire permenantly >Integrate Cuba as the crown's outpost in the America's and divide the rest of the regions as domains with a degree of autonomy.>Create paper currency >Create a public stock exchange>Invest the money from the colonies into industrialization efforts
>>18223177>Ignore European conflicts.not a easy thing to do, the spanish crown had a lot of possessions and claims outside of Spain>Ally Portugal instead of trying to conquer themEasy to say than done, they were geopolitical rivals for a reason>Ban slavery and prevent any africans from being taken to the Americasa little too liberal for an absolute monarchy>Ban race mixing and promote Iberian population growth in the colonies.Charles III did it by limiting marriage approval in his Pragmatic Sanction>there's a side effect of inviting foreign agents, but aside of that, it wasn't too hard for europeans to enter the americas, you just had to change your name to a spanish sounding one and look castillian enough, germans and italians did it all the time>Integrate Cuba as the crown's outpost in the America's and divide the rest of the regions as domains with a degree of autonomythe viceroyalties had some degree of autonomy by design: "Obedezco pero no cumplo". The bureaucracy wasn't too complex and there was little military pressence in the continent
>>18223177>Ban jews and muslims from the Empire permenantly??? You think they could dilly-dally in the Empire? Even the converts had a hard time with the Leyes de Sangre laws.
>>18222795He was a bourbon, he was always going to rule by absolute means. It's in their blood.
>>18220793You can only have sex with your wife so you cant rape slaves or women in wars you retarded nigger theres a reason why the church banned that
>>18222139Besides the spanish genocide is a meme. The diseases were the thing that fucked the natives the most.
>>18224096I agree, the bourbon queen the latin american revolutionaries tried to put in an american throne was also later discarded because she wanted to rule as an absolute monarch. But my point stands in response to OP's question, the seend of liberalism was already booming both in Spain and in the Spanish America. At the same time the viceroyalties declared independence, part of the spanish army in Cadiz on route to America rebelled in response to Ferdinand's decision to abolish the constitution
>>18224548>You can only have sex with your wifeYet a lot of kings and nobles had a lot of concubines
