>>18211948
Conditioned subconscious behavior caused by trauma

>>18211952
And also social contagion (IE they try to recruit easily manipulated or emotionally vulnerable people)

>>18211948
As far as sources go, check out the Texas new family structures study. Children of homosexuals are more likely to be homosexual later in life.

You can find studies between maternal progesterone and epigenetic homosexuality.
Ofc that could make women look bad, so you'll only find a couple of studies.

>>18211948
Gay here. No, it's not honest to reduce everything to "trauma" or "culture," although those are true in certain cases, especially the latter, but the fact is we don't know exactly what causes it. The debate is open, but there's not much doubt that one can't simply say there aren't intrinsic factors. I personally have never experienced trauma or been ideologically influenced. Historically, reducing everything to trauma or a mere subjective choice comes mainly from Abrahamoid religions.

If it's nurture, you are admitting that you'd suck a cock if someone made a compelling argument for it. Just saying.

>>18211958
No, you mentally retarded person, these studies were criticized for having a terrible methodology

>>18211968
>Yeah I tuned out my childhood trauma, just trust me I am normal

>>18211972
Who criticized them? The gay community? They literally have academics in universities too and their entire life's crusade is to try to slander any research that comes out about their obscene lifestyles. They think about it as fighting fascism or some bullshit.

Its 100% genetic
Read about maternal progesterone and how Children of gays are more actually more likely to be gay.
>>18211968
Correct

>>18211974
I will see this as a kind of concession, since I was very clear in my arguments, especially when I said that I didn't have any trauma, I come from a traditional family and I had this inclination from an early age

>>18211948
Genetic influence actually
>>18211963
Bump

>>18211981
Do people with childhood traumas always keep awareness of it? It's almost like there is an entire big concept in psychology called "the subconscious" which causes you to do things while not knowing or even repressing why.

>>18211976
You literally agreed with me in the post, don't make me refute you. I have a folder with literally 12 articles and 8 peer-reviewed ones.

>>18211948
My mother once told me she was attracted to women. I also have two gay cousins. I think it's genetic desu.

it is demonic and djinni possession and influence

>>18211991
Same here

>>18211987
Quantity of articles mean nothing, it is just political outrage. And yes I am very proud of you for learning to use ChatGPT.

I have seen many pro-gay scientific studies... and they had a sample size of 40 to 80. These are KEY studies used in western liberal thought as the basis for gay acceptance. Some of them had 40 respondents!

The Texas New Family Structures study was the biggest, most rigorous and had the most respondents of any study in that specific category. It had thousands of respondents.

If you want to protect muh science then first discredit those shoddy 40 person surveys rather than actual science.

>>18211969
>If desire that is not necessity is mental ilness
This is a fallacy, are Gamers and people who get an urge to eat a burger mentally ill? By that definition anyone with a hobby is ill

Homosexuality is result of demons and djinns, plain and simple

>>18211999
Therefore, we are not talking about quantity, but about sampling bias.

>>18211968
I personally think everybody is ultimately pansexual. Everybody can develop a taste for men or women if they want to. This is my belief. The fact that hetero is the default is because it produces children and not necessarily that we are somehow genetically imprisoned in it.

>>18211986
?

>>18212005
No, all other sexualities besides hetero is the influence of demons, djinns and other evil entities, repent or burn

>>18212005
>personally think everybody is ultimately pansexual.
Not reading the rest

>>18212009
I’m a Christian

>>18212007
nta but he means you have likely experienced some kind of trauma that subconsciously caused your brain to think men are sexually attractive

>>18212063
Its sad that you cannot see the masculine attraction and beauty, and have cast it aside so women only pick men for their wealth rather than health and overall aspect.

Genetic/epigenetic normally, but unrelated sexual deviantions and consumption of "alternative" pornography may also lead to it.

>>18212011
he's right retard

>>18212067
I simply cannot relate
you know the "imagine the smell" meme?
I just like the scent of women so would never find a fellow man sexually attractive

>>18212086
Thats fine. No need to lump everyone else as some trauma victim. It really cheapens the term.

Not even a single government or religious body anywhere around the world can agree on the cause so its not as simple as making such a claim.

It's part of a much bigger question of how culture is formed. The talk about genetics and epigenetics I will not dignify, it literally can't explain other sexual norms at all. It has to deny their existence. Sexuality can still be real, the question becomes if one can personally decide to go against social forces or not. I'm fairly sure it is possible, but by what mechanism? All change is incremental, and everyone is fundamentally at some point in the change rather than another point. In other words, people in the past didn't have the freedom to make what would've been big leaps to where we are today. Does that mean I'm not really changing anything, or is it just the context of my role? Fascinating stuff. Just because we perceive the forces acting on us and can respond to those forces, doesn't mean people in the past could. They lacked the tools. The same is true of everyone still indoctrinated to sexuality, most will not ever be able to change. Maybe even if you are free, you still can't change due to force of habit, and life lived when you were ignorant.

But I digress...
It's obviously not genetic. If you raise someone without normal human contact they won't have normal sexuality.

>>18212086
I respect superstraights even less than supergays. At least the gays aren't complete conformists. Both are utter subhumans though, I don't want to hear either one offer an opinion outside their lane.

>>18212120
>superstraights
did you just make up some silly term to describe me?
The world is not as complicated as you think
There are normal people (most humans who are attracted to the opposite sex) and sexual non-conformists or whatever you want to call them

>>18212131
I told you I don't want to hear opinions outside your teeny little lane. What would you know about any of this?

>>18212112
I'm not saying it 100% happened to you
It could have though
more to the point, homosexuality is not genetic or inheritable so I don't think homosexuals are born that way. There is a study that claims families with multiple sons are more likely to have a gay younger son but I don't remember its sample size or exact methodology.

>>18212140
Having low T and stray genetic material makes a man effeminate. Society tells him he's gay and only allowed to fuck men.

>>18212133
>no argument
kys pathetic subhuman

>>18212143
>society tells him he's gay
that sounds like a man-made problem
I also know several soft-spoken 'effeminate' men who are straight, with wives, girlfriends etc.

>>18212148
My argument is you don't know what you're talking about and I do.

>>18212151
not to mention the famous big strong gays. All the blackpill determinism arguments are skin deep at best.

>>18212154
you're a sexual deviant and I'm not

>>18212158
and the Thebans who did it to boost morale
it worked against the Spartans, it failed against the Macedonians

>>18212131
Not quite. You're forgetting how mindless conformity works. You can be "normal" for your entire life day-in and day-out, thousands and thousands of days and reps as a normal, but the second you put one toe out of line you're a nonconformist. Fuck a tranny one time and you're gay, even if he passed. Have a gay thought once and you're not normal, as you've stressed over and over.

>>18212165
>no argument
pathetic subhuman

>>18212131
>normal
Normal would probably actually include some level of homoeroticism. Most animals engage in some level of it, like cats won't discriminate whom they groom with affection. Even if half the time its also acts of dominance. Most species will seek out affection and comfort regardless of gender.

>>18211948
Whenever this question is asked, the answer is pretty much always "both."

Some guys are very clearly fruity just by their nature, you can see it even in kids. The fruity kids I knew when I was a kid ended up being gay. Not really surprising.

On the other hand, there's clearly a correlation between trauma from being molested by a man and becoming gay. Way too much crossover there for it to be a coincidence.

>>18211948
Both. Everyone is naturally a fag. But you can raise people to generally not act on it like how you can make people vegetarian or whatever.

>>18212182
Those fruity kids wouldn't be gay if their surroundings demanded they reproduce and become patriarchs. The biggest mistake is thinking no one would be gay if given the choice, those guys love being gay. The choice is just a confirmation

>>18212172
>Macedonians
Philip II was saddened over defeating them. But its ok because his son basically kept the practice alive all by himself!

>>18211948
It's the default state of higher man. Women were for propagating the species. Men were for love, discourse and cultivating spirit

>>18212187
The fact that some kids still end up being gay when surrounded by anti-gay environments, even when they themselves desperately don't want to be gay and deny it to themselves, proves you wrong. And the only thing that results from disallowing them to be gay is that they force themselves to marry and reproduce with a woman, which not only later blows up the marriage when his wife discovers he's secretly sucking cocks behind her back, but he also passes on his gay genes to his kids. There's no benefit for it.

>>18212114
Much text, gay tard

>>18212193
Nope, it proves me right. People raised to believe being gay is horrible have no way of coping with reality. Telling them straight is the only way to happiness is how you get the confusion of different sexualities flag.

>>18212195
L

>>18212193
"surroundings demanded" meaning there isn't some huge alpha chad trying to take all the women from you

>>18212114

>but by what mechanism?

tldr it's trauma

>>18212219
Life is a cycle of trauma. Even dropping you off at kindergarden is traumatic for some children. They say circumcision is traumatic on the baby. Its all trauma! Eating a broccoli is trauma for some autists. Hearing your parents argue out loud is trauma!

Regardless, when it comes to sexuality not everything is developed from trauma. But shame can cause trauma and that applies to all anyway.

Then, why isn't everyone a homosexual?

>>18212114
>The talk about genetics and epigenetics I will not dignify, it literally can't explain other sexual norms at all.
What do you mean by Sexual norms?

>>18212229

>when it comes to sexuality not everything is developed from trauma

however, one's sense of intimacy can absolutely be damaged by trauma

>Then, why isn't everyone a homosexual?

because evolution doesn't put all its eggs in 1 basket

>>18212265
Heterosexual's intimacy is also ruined by trauma. What's your point?

>>18211948
Genetic.
It's a function to curb the reproductive capabilities of a species to prevent overpopulation while maintaining genetic diversity in the event of a catastrophic reduction of a species population.
Hence why it only affects a small percentage of the population.

>>18211948
It happens naturally to any mammal species so genetic, anyone claiming otherwise is a chud and/or have serious issues with their own sexual identity

>>18211948
Both.

It's genetic since the same hominids that were rapists, pedos, and homos managed to rape one of the many days in their life and reproduced. Likewise sensory disorders like autism are genetic, who knows when did the changes that manifest into autism happened, but clearly it's not dysfunctional enough to prevent rape.

It's nurtured in the sense that the ever changing modern society puts pressures we have never biologically faced before, people react with stress, emotional vulnerability, attachment issues and so on. A lot of famous homos had issues trying to be acknowledged by their father, who tends to be a pussy as well, pressured by peers and what not. Now there's plain indoctrination where they say being a faggot is second nature and not symptoms of dysfunctional families/environments. As time goes on the matter becomes blurrier because more and more people are digging their way to be comfortable in the homo subculture, instead of asking genuinely whether their state is ideal, preventable or what not.

>>18212257
everything outside white american protestant ethics. Distinguishing between forms of sex, (what takes your virginity and what doesn't) differentiating forms of homosexuality, believing it's gay and not art to look at naked men, believing it's not pedophilia to have an age gap over three years, and so on. If those sound like meaningless distinctions, welcome to the world of sexuality. Pick one you think is pure society and someone will argue it's genetic.

>>18212284
>just shut up about it!
who has issues?

>>18212278
right... how hot does the tranny have to be before you're part of that small percentage? Oh that's right, it's a magical force. A 10/10 tranny could seduce you away from your 0/10 wife and it's still gay because uhhhhhhhhh save me genes!

>>18211972
>Empirical inductive studies show Kids of adopted homo couples are more likely to turn gay (IE they got molested)
>"No-no! In this very specific case science isnt reliable! Its only reliable when it fits my agenda!"

>>18211948
Lightly genetic and moderately based on life history/environment. And there's some missing factor in it iirc Gregory Cochrane speculated there may be some unknown pathogens contacted early in life that can cause it, but it was ridiculed because someone called it the gay virus theory and that sounds a bit silly.

>>18211948
The clearest explanation for the cause is the maternal immune system frying the male brain's testosterone receptors so mentally they remain intermediate between male and female due to lack of masculinization in a manner of speaking. Some genetic variants may make them more susceptible to such a maternal immune response idk.

Female homosexuality has a different etiology thoughbeit.

>>18212352
99% of homosexuals are from traditional households chud

>>18211948
Genetic. Just like how our beliefs, predispositions, ability to reason and other mental divergences/disorders are influenced mostly by genes, so are our attractions. The lifestyle of the modern homosexual however is a cultural/nurture thing since it manifests now as countercultural in its opposition to established norms (hence the promiscuity) and the puritanical anti unequal power dynamic consent-based morality of sex (hence the need to have homosexual relationships to have the same legal recognition as heterosexual ones). Historically speaking homosexuality was made manifest between much older and much younger men and was based on power dynamics and inequality.

>>18212357
pseud

>>18212428
idiot

>>18212357
Studies showed gays have average higher T than heteros

Shitty moms, that's it

>this website is normalizing sodomy
this is why every zoomer moved to kf or sharty

>>18212317
No straight man can be seduced by a tranny; even the most passing ones look uncanny to a man. And even if they do, the dick will be an instant repulsive turn off.
Those seduced by trannies are either bisexual GAMP men or homosexual men with a thing for feminine boys.
You will never be a woman.

I'm praying for your souls. May you reject this demonic practice.

>>18213068
>fag talk scares away the zoomer
Yes please, go away.
This site has never cared about "sodomy", and has attacked homosexuals if it's the edgy thing to currently do.

>>18213100
marge

>>18213108
shoo, shoo

>>18213111
explain why kiwifarms is gaining users while 4chan loses anons, doe? zoomers are waking up because we were told by liberal teachers lies how this is normal. we launched operation no nut november and took down troons and other pedophiles from your sodomite lgbt cult

>>18211948
Comparing oneself with members of one's own sex is completely natural, it is part of human instincts, such a comparison is useful to understand what to strive for, what to develop, and to understand one's place in the human pack. However, the desire to have sex with a member of your own sex using the anus is a sign of illness.

>>18213119
You are literally a 19 year old mutt nigger your opinion does not even fucking matter and you post insanely ahistorical posts and are not even capable of understanding the current situation
Go fuck off to your beloved low IQ sharty
Your posts give me AIDS

There are three types of gays.

1. men who were raped or molested as a child by an older man, causing them to have warped sexuality later in life. The majority of gays are created this way.

2. men with a pronounced aversion to women (often originating with some childhood trauma) who settle for gay sex rather than trying to find a tolerable female. Lately this type of homosexual is funneled into the autogynophilia subculture so the tranny industry can make money selling them hormones and meds and surgeries until they kill themself.

3. Men secluded into all-male populations with no access to women, who become gay out of desperation. See: prisoners, sailors, soldiers, etc...

As for lebsians, I'm not convinced they really exist, there's only women with an aversion to men, as with the second type of male homosexuality, which is coped with by forming intimate relationships with women. Even lesbians prefer penetrative sex with fake penises so it sort of proves the lie of their entire sexuality. Their biology betrays them, as is always the case with the female species.

>>18213068
Zoomers are by far the gayest generation alive.

>>18212192
found the classical Athenian

>>18213141
your narrative isnt even accurate
the ones with aversion to women are the ones who become obsessed with fucking the twinks, not being one
the ones who become agp are oftenly because of depression, loneliness and overconsumption of shitty pornography

father forgive them, for they not know that they are grooming and corrupting youth
>>18213141
all of them should be shot in the back of the head
>>18213148
marge

>>18213161
Who groomed you?

>>18213166
literally nobody
/pol/ maybe, i used to be obsessed with phenotypes a decade ago

>>18213161
>the ones with aversion to women are the ones who become obsessed with fucking the twinks, not being one
That was in the past. Nowadays they are groomed by online communities starting in adolescence into AGP. Trannies don't come from nowhere, they are made, like homosexuals are made. There's only so many men who are dysfunctional enough to fall for the AGP psyop, which targets angry, lonely, vulnerable young men as you said, and that is the woman-hating fag in his larval state.

File: gay physiogamy.png (318 KB, 1080x608)

318 KB PNG

>>18211948
Both, to a degree. My favorite theory for regarding the genetic side of it is prenatal hormonal one and the environmental one, where dud individuals are produced.

>>18211948
My opinion is both, but nurture is probably most important than people would like to admit, you can really fuck up a normal brain with propaganda, trauma and conditioning, I know this very well

>>18211948
The reasons are entirely social. Homosexuality is common in societies where sex with women is difficult to access. In the army, in prisons, in Afghanistan, in ancient Greece, sex with women is/was also difficult to access, so homosexuality is off the charts. The same is true in modern society, women only have sex with chads, while all other men have to have sex with each other.

>>18213221
This is very sad

Move to kiwifarms so you don't have to deal with homosexuals

>>18213221
>have to
yea haha there's just no other choice...

>>18213221
You're working from the assumption that all sexual relationships are enjoyable. Modern sexuality assumes anything you don't like or don't feel like doing is unthinkable.

>>18213238
LOL

>>18212359
Only because fags aren’t raising kids en masse yet (and that’s a good thing)

>>18212945
Depends on which studies you want to notice and which ones you want to ignore. Overall if you looked at all studies conducted on the topic you will conclude that there is no average difference and what I explained has nothing to do with the person's testosterone levels anyway and everything to do with the mother making the fetal brain unresponsive to testosterone. Hence why gay men show gender atypical preferences and are typically almost 1.5 sd less masculine than straight men in terms of preferences (where masculinity would be defined as difference between average male and average female preference or behavior for any given thing; a typical woman would typically be 2 sd less masculine than the typical man for example).

>>18212871
Do you have any argument against the most robustly supported etiology especially for male homosexuality?

>>18213048
Haha in a way I guess so but not in a direct way.

>>18213089
Homosexual men are just as attracted to trannies as straight men- which is to say they aren't. Both heterosexual and bisexuality GAMP men are roughly equally attracted to trannies (which is to say they are). Really the only difference between hetero and bi GAMP males is level of autogynephillia.

>>18213238
Kiwifarms is tranny central though

>>18213221
Women are easy to access in the desert, where the most anti-homosexual societes used to reside?

>>18211948
Its epigenetic/socially conditioned.
>its genetic-
Jewish lies.

>>18213134
That zoomer could definitely beat the shit out of a decrepit tryhard crybully geriatric basedlennial like you.

>>18211977
What you're describing is epigenetics, a gay gene doesn't exist.

>>18212179
maybe that's just you
I cannot relate to these 'feelings' as they're alien to me

>>18213405
>Do you have any argument against the most robustly supported etiology especially for male homosexuality?
Yes, you're completely full of shit. No one has ever seriously argued male and female homosexuality are different, far less that there could be different genetic origins.

>>18212173
No normal person would ever fuck a tranny
get a grip

>>18213507
epigenetics is how you call the result of environment on the body. It's a question of how much responsibility you accept for your own life

>>18212176
>reading comprehension
try harder degenerate. I made an argument and presented it very clearly. Read the first post you kvetched at

>>18213554
It happens by deception all the time.

>>18213551
Hah, funny. But seriously maybe you're autistic.

>>18213559
I don't remember what you're talking about.

>>18212188
Alexander was bi at worst
but you can have Elagabalus if you're still looking to find faggy emperors

>>18213561
maybe. still better than being 'homoerotic' (yuck)

>>18213567
it isn't actually, you're less free. A golem subhuman

>>18213560
how?
I've gotten blind drunk more times than I care to remember, and I never even got close to a tranny, let alone fuck one

>>18213563
that's a (you) problem
I remember everything
beside that, the comments are still in this thread

>>18213569
>real freedom is being a faggot
what passage of the babylonian talmud is this?

>>18213502
>b-but I-I can beat you in a f-fight!
Sure. Come to my residence then you fucking faggot.

>>18213572
FTMs are indistinguishable from manlets. In general the rarity of passing trannies makes them insidious, you might have been near one without realizing it. It's not about the trannies you may or may not have accidentally gooned to, but the freedom to do and think anything outside the mainstream which you don't have.
>>18213577
Not just that, you can't love women too much or you're a gay simp. You can't dislike women or you're super gay. Can't be a junkie or you're gay. There's all kinds of ways to drop out of conformity, you have to obey every rule.

Hetero male hatred of homosexuals is jealously and mysogyny

Is jealously because gays are happy without needing to simp for women
Is mysogyny because they see attraction to males as inherently feminine and anything feminine on men is bad and should be frowned upon to them

>>18213560
This is a literaly 2018-2020 tranny myth which was made for the anti "trap" narrative for some reason

>>18213601
Totally disagree. It's a form of social control because relationships divide loyalties. If you're on a team or trying to run an organization, homophobia is anti-factionalism that allows you to rely on men interchangeably. Moral codes like nonviolence allow work to be done efficiently because energy isn't devoted to conflict. Homophobia is a similar code for the home and workplace that's more akin to laws against adultery and rules against hetero romance on the job.

>>18213610
I've personally heard of someone, 2 degrees separated from me, who was engaged to a pooner without knowing. I guess christianity was involved

>>18213619
If that was the case why would societies like the Spartan ones encourage homosexuality in their militaries to increase morale and cohesion? Modern homophobia is mostly mysoginy

>>18213635
Might as well ask why we don't have a king. It works almost as well, homophobia only becomes superior at scale

>>18213564
Nah, Alexander was full on homosexual, just like Alcibiades. Enforced bisexuality in historical narratives is a cancer I will get rid of soon enough.
Elgawho? I prefer the likes of Epaminondas anyway.
Tah!

>>18213652
source: convoluted simpleton's understanding of genetics and determinism

>>18211948
It is the punishment for denial of God on a societal and individual level.
With source, faggot.

>Romans 1:25-32
>25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

>>18212053
sure you are

>>18212112
well no one would call you that if you didn't take it so personally. usually in psychology if you get deeply offended by something its because there's a part of you that is deeply affected with it.

>>18213592
>FTMs are indistinguishable from manlets
what an odd thing to say. couldn't have ulterior motives behind it or anything. no siree.....

>>18213601
>Hetero male hatred of homosexuals is jealously and mysogyny
I mean sure whatever helps you sleep at night, faggot.

>>18213749
0 arguments whatsoever

Homophobia is very shitskincoded

>>18213746
Just poor phrasing, I don't know what you're implying. Obviously a majority of pooners don't pass, but some can be indistinguishable

>>18213552
You need to start listening to and reading research on the matter instead of locking yourself in your echochamber. Female homosexuality is better explained by surge of hormones while the mother is pregnant, male homosexuality isn't.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6677266/
Prenatal hormones likely play a role for female but a lack of testosterone influence on males is not clear based on the 2d vs 4d ratio (it's a mixed bag for men) but it is more replicate among women (lesbians having a more masculine ratio)
>However, Balthazart and Court88 provided suggestions for other genes located in the Xq28 region of the X-chromosome that should be explored and it remains possible that expression levels of steroid hormone response pathway genes could be regulated epigenetically (11).
Gene expression may be a key for men. What could influence that?
>In support of the immune hypothesis, Bogaert et al91 demonstrated recently that mothers of homosexual sons, particularly those with older brothers, have higher antibody titers to neurolignin 4 (NLGN4Y), an extracellular protein involved in synaptic functioning and presumed to play a role in foetal brain development.
Good explanation for male homosexuality: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1705895114
The mechanism that is behind the older sibling effect of gay men can also explain gay men who don't have older brothers.

Anyway there is the best existing explanation. I have yet to hear any argument from you otherwise.

>>18213791
Kiwifarms is one of the whitest websites and it hates fags

>>18213784
I'm not arguing with you I'm insulting you

>>18213933
Is engagement on your shithole website duing or something? This is like the fifth thread I've seen someone shilling.

>>18213933
Buy an ad, shitskin

>>18213592
>imagine the smell
I mentioned it earlier, but you seem to have missed the point
no troon can ever pass face to face

>>18213652
>t. projecting
just because you're a raging flamer doesn't mean everyone else is a same

>>18213853
P value: approaching zero
the study in a nutshell: we have almost isolated the gene that makes you low test or high test
scientific value: none

>>18211948
all sexuality/fetish/kinks/paraphilia/ is learned.

>>18213652
alexander had 3 wives
>>18213564
elagabalus was propaganda from his political enemies

>>18214759
Did you even read it? The testosterone thing was influential only for lesbians (interestingly 47% of them are likely to identify as non-lesbian in a 10 year timeframe from other studies). But there was no link between hormone levels and male homosexuality. The male homosexuality study was based on antibodies, absolutely no mention of test. So you haven't even read it.

>>18215151
Do you even read what you write? This is a complete joke. While we're picking and choosing, I pick the other studies that say 50%(!) of so-called lesbians decide to be straight. Even though they're slightly higher T they resist the blackpill sorting process that says only chad and stacy are straight.

>>18215946
>so-called lesbians decide to be straight.
Non-lesbian =/= straight since they retain their male-shifted sexual arousal tendencies (gays in contrast don't have female-shifted tendencies, only female-shifted patterns as in attraction to men).
>Even though they're slightly higher T they resist the blackpill sorting process that says only chad and stacy are straight.
Ah so you don't know what you were talking about all along. Got it, I wasted some time on you. Wasted in the sense that you are too dumb and/or unwilling to learn anything based on best statistically supported/validated hypotheses. I can take the horse to the water but can't make it drink, there is no cure for your low IQ. Sad!

>>18213560
Generally most transgenders do not get bottom surgery, and if they do, it usually is noticeable. The only cases that can really meaningfully deceive people are the ones that get sniped by the troon shit pre-puberty, which is a horrific thing to even think about.

>>18217165
This is yet another dead end for sexual determinists that I will educate you about, get ready to learn. There are many definitions of gay like yours, which include people who are not gay according to common sense. The women who experiment and go back to being straight are a perfect example. When that happens you're back to square one, inability to describe a complex social phenomenon in strict biological terms. You're back to saying the public is wrong about sexuality and redefining it like just another chud.

>>18213652
Alcibiades is sort of an exceptional case, he also likely had elements of his character exaggerated to fit the narrative surrounding the Sicily debacle and his repeated defections. You don't stop there though, you then use the caricature of Alcibiades to conclude that another, far more important and more exaggerated character, was 100% gay. Unreal levels of conclusion hopping here.

>>18217389
I am not redefining anything- all terms are as they are understood. Male homosexuals are males sexually interested in other males, females homosexuals are females sexually interested in other females. I am delving into the traits of the groups and what causes it. The public has no particular opinion about that so the only resistance I see here is you, not the public. The thing that causes gays is not the thing that causes lesbians and the 2 groups are very different (most genes associated with causality of male homosexuality do not associate with most known genes associated with causality of female homosexuality)- this isn't radical, even a basic person with no advanced knowledge would understand this if they have met a single a gay and a single lesbian in their life. Even that person has more knowledge than you, since you are at zero and refuse to learn. Thats the problem- you detest knowledge and refuse to understand something like a wild animal.

>>18217540
interest is of no interest. Nobody defines homosexuality that way, if you deviate from common usage you're redefining. The root of your problem is the concept of homosexuality is itself cultural and based on common parlance, not science.

>>18217540
as for your other claim, is there any counterfactual to this shit headed belief in genetic determinism? What would sexuality defined by society look like, if not what we have now?

>>18211948
If you ask me all people are bisexual and the concepts of "straight" and "gay" are just created via social conditioning. Ideas about sexuality used to be alot more varried an diverse before Christianity and Islam took over the world.
I'm not saying everyone should be fucking eachother or having gay sex, God no. But what saying is that given what I know this is how things look to me.

>>18211981
Anon, don't waste your energy arguing here. It's like squeezing water from a stone.

>>18217584
>nobody defines homosexuality that way
Everyone defines homosexuality as attraction to the same sex.
> The root of your problem is the concept of homosexuality is itself cultural and based on common parlance, not science.
Every single concept that people think of is in some way based on symbols mediated by culture. The difference between that vs science is that science is a consideration of those concepts in a measured manner. It is simply a matter of knowing more vs not knowing more.

>as for your other claim, is there any counterfactual to this shit headed belief in genetic determinism? What would sexuality defined by society look like, if not what we have now?
Why must you believe that there is a duality. Society views things one way, then we measure it, then we describe it, then society views things so more and we measure it more. Are you unable to think of it as a part of an extended process?

>>18217621
This applies to women generally, but men have distinct clusters of sexual arousal to stimulus. Gay men are really not turned on by female stimulus and straight men are really not turned on my male stimulus.

>>18213580
>Come to my residence then you fucking faggot
post address

>>18217641
Benserville Illinois, at your mother's house

>>18211968
Trauma isn't really conceptually addressed as you frame it in Abrahamic religion, there is an idea that suffering and pain shapes you, but that's not really unique to Abrahamic religion it is more so a fundamental truth.

>>18211952
It was trauma for me. I didn't have any attraction to guys but my first experiences were basically being taken advantage of by older kids. I'm guessing it was the same for others.

File: tumblr_2a22cd009692dd4080(...).jpg (49 KB, 400x544)

49 KB JPG

>liking the smell of my boyfriend is trauma
incels are so funny

>>18217790
Erm xir have you tried not being gay?

>>18217634
>Everyone defines homosexuality as attraction to the same sex.
No they don't, it's the same problem. Homosexuality is not a thought crime because if it were, the term now includes a swathe of people who aren't homosexual, losing its meaning.

>>18217636
You're such an idiot it's unreal. What is a "female stimulus" is that when the hand jerking you off has long nails?

>>18218278
>No they don't, it's the same problem. Homosexuality is not a thought crime because if it were, the term now includes a swathe of people who aren't homosexual, losing its meaning.

Attraction to the same sex is the commonly accepted notion, and that is what you asked for. But that doesn't matter because the issue at hand is the mechanism behind it. So if you are done moving goalposts either refute what I have said about the etiologies or shut the fuck up. I haven't even gone into cluster traits, mechanisms and etiologies other less divergent but still out of the norm sexualities like AGP (which differ from homosexuality) but since you can't even handle basic stuff, I doubt that other conversation is even possible with you.

>>18218287
Stimulus in this case is images and videos of women having sex. Female-female stimulus is women having sex with women, male-male- stimulus is men having sex with men, mixed stimulus is men having sex with women (can be used as a reference point to compare the two other stimuli's effects). Again, a low knowledge low IQ person not understanding something so basic and getting pissed off. What is wrong with you people?

>>18218333
>Attraction to the same sex is the commonly accepted notion
Without action? No it isn't.
>the issue at hand is the mechanism behind it
behind what? You can't explain why most people who are aware of the attractiveness of others don't act on it.

>>18218333
>images and videos
so you're stating as fact your highly tangential interpretation of another study you didn't read, that was itself deeply flawed

File: Epiphany_of_dionysus_fresco.jpg (344 KB, 1068x1198)

344 KB JPG

>>18211948
>>18211948
Christianity -Yahweh made Adam and eve not Adam and Steve now fuck your wife and procreate or Yahweh will be pissed and don't you dare spill seed

Hellenic Polytheism (Dionysian edition) Prometheus made all people originally with four arms and four legs but then they decided to split them up into men and women. He made them from the remains of Zagreus (Dionysus) which is wear human souls come from and the remains of the titans. One day Dionysus got Prometheus and Hermes wasted and they decided to make new people by scrambling bodies and minds (LGBTQI origin)

Science its probably a mix of genetics and hormonal womb turbulence, insensitivity to hormones and other factors that lead to functionally intersex brains

Im sorry guys Hellenism got it right again suck it Abrahamics

File: iu[1].jpg (42 KB, 700x214)

42 KB JPG

Neither. It is almost certainly due to prenatal hormonal conditions which affects the brain and other parts of the body.

>>18218145
Yeah, I pretty much keep it to porn if I want to be a boymincing la-la homo man.

If it is genetic that that just proves that we are born in sin as the Bible says.

>>18218752
>you can't do gay stuff if your fourth finger is longer
peak retard

>>18218739
wp

>>18218877
you can but you won't enjoy it because you won't be homosexual

>>18218752
I'm homo and my trigger and fourth finger are the same size tho

My biggest finger is the middle one

>>18218974
>My biggest finger is the middle one
I would hope so. That's called being part of humanity.

>>18218945
Wrong, it's just a shorthand for how much test you have. It's the most crude generalization for masculinity versus femininity you could imagine. It's literally more accurate to say tall people are straight and short people are gay.

>>18211948
Neither, it's a neuroendocrinological birth defect.

>>18218341
>behind what? You can't explain why most people who are aware of the attractiveness of others don't act on it.
That is a separate matter, the key issue here is the mechanism behind the impulse.

>>18218345
It is a straightforward translation, no interpretation needed. Gay men consistently respond to type of visual stimulus, lesbian women consistently respond to a type of stimulus. Gay men's patterns of what gets their attention is the opposite of straight men, but the dynamics are the same as straight men. Lesbian women's patterns of what gets their attention isn't a straightforward reversal of straight women and in addition to that, the dynamics are somewhat male-shifted (consistent with the cause behind male and female homosexuality being different). The only interpretation here is linking a straightforward pattern to etiology. Its called making a hypothesis, but science is a bit much for you. Go live your world of narratives instead.

>>18218752
Thats actually not really true at least when it comes to males. See, straight male average vary a lot depending on the sample set and importantly the location of where the sample set came from (yuge variation between countries) but gays regardless of whereever they come from, as a group, have a convergent average. Of course there is variation in overlap and all, but still the one thing that can be gleaned is, the straight male 2d:4d group ratio varies a lot, while the gay male ratio doesn't. What could cause it? Perhaps not responding to testosterone, while straight males respond to testosterone (albeit differently in different places/countries).

>>18212296
I believe your issue here is conceptualizing same sex attraction as a sexual norm. There have been buggerers even in times where Buggery was punished by execution. I think one has to be at least pre-disposed to homosexuality. Aside from that, I do agree that sexuality is somewhat socially conditioned. But not entirely socially conditioned.
It's kind of like what makes an attractive person. Specifics may vary culture to culture but there are a few universal traits everyone finds attractive.
Pederasty though, I can at least see it.

Strictly genetic/innate homosexuality was mostly promoted by fags so no good and kind moralist would try putting them in reform camps, anyway.
>>18212428
Beliefs are not genetic. Early Childhood is much more influential.
>>18213494
Epigenetics implies its genetic though. Gene expression.

I think the prevalence or acceptance of homosexual behavior in some historical cultures, often tied to class or station, suggests that sexuality is probably more flexible than often thought. And that culture must be a major factor in what behaviors people actually consider or perform, what tastes they either cultivate or cringe at.

>>18220301
>Gay men consistently respond to type of visual stimulus, lesbian women consistently respond to a type of stimulus
source: there is none
I haven't read the rest of your post yet, might get around to it, but I don't see any merit in your posts frankly. You haven't offered anything except rhetoric and your point is just an appeal to authorities that don't exist.

>>18220434
>source: there is none
Get your head out of your ass.

https://d-miller.github.io/assets/HsuInPress.pdf

so... what is the answer?

>>18211948
It's correlated with digit ratio, and twins separated at birth are more likely than population base rate to be gay if the other is, that alone is proof that it's at least partly biological. There may also be environmental factors though.

>>18220453
It doesn't say anything about genetics, or homosexuality for that matter. That paper could be describing a completely social phenomenon.

>>18220464
Also correlated with height. Tall people are straight and short people are gay, (the opposite for women) it's science.

>>18220454
People are made of genes so it's genetic, but sexual maturity happens during your life so what happens to you is what actually defines how you relate.

>>18220464
>even two genetically IDENTICAL people have only a slightly higher chance of similar sexual development
it's over

>>18211948
Homosexuality is lack of nurture. When you fail to lead a healthy normal life then you slowly start to become more and more gay.

>>18220659
I agree that it's most likely not 100% fixed by genetics. But if a twin separated at birth- so one who has literally nothing in common with their sibling except genes- has a 50% chance of being gay if their twin is, as opposed to a 5-10% prevalence in the general population, how do you explain that other than biology being at least somewhat of a factor?

>>18221604
First of all, identical twins are exact genetic clones of each other. There should be no 50% chance of just choosing to be different. This thread is discussing digit ratio which has maybe 1% predictive power, the same as height and birth order. If being an exact copy of someone (and artificially separated, together they play off one another) only gives you a 50/50 chance of being similar to them, those other elements are nothing but random noise compared to what's really going on. Secondly, something is causing the homosexuality. If digit ratio makes you 1% more gay, that's biology, but idiots going around claiming digit ratio explains homosexuality is a social cause. The same social causes can influence both twins in any society with homosexuality, which is almost all of them outside primitive HGs. For example, maybe their temperament is better suited to what people think of as homosexual. Maybe they're built like a typical homosexual and get treated that way. The substrate of everything is genetics but there's simply no way to arrive at adult sexuality or homosexuality as commonly defined, without living life and making decisions.

>>18221922
Maybe the gene expressions that cause homosexuality are only activated in particular circumstances. It's not a binary.

>>18221987
The whole idea that some people are capable of fulfilling sex and others aren't is pure dehumanization. Sex just isn't that complicated, you rub parts and coom. It mostly exists to protect people's life choices from criticism, i.e. "I was born this way so you can't tell me what to do" it's not philosophically consistent nor does it make for good study design.

>>18222007
Can you explain how you got to that from my post? I never implied that.

>>18215088
lots of emperors had political enemies
only some are described as absolute degenerates
Elagabalus was the worst of the lot

>>18222060
You didn't really say anything so I just followed my own train of thought. Everything is a gene expression activated by the environment, but no gene will make you exceptional because genes don't define social structures like that. Even if you're exceptional genetically you can still die in a freak way for instance.

>>18222060
but basically, the idea that you need a specific gene to have sex is flat out wrong. Someone can just rape you and then you had sex with no genetic component.

>>18220639
A social phenomenon of a cluster of men defined by what they are attracted to corresponding almost perfectly with physiological responses thus establishing an essential link between behavior and physiology? You've got to be mad if you think that can be socially transmitted. The link with genetics is made indirectly by aligning data from multiple papers and I don't even have a view of some kind of genetically immutable homosexuality.
What that paper does talk about is the consistent essence of sexualities that queer theorists cannot grasp.

>>18222117
Sex =/= Rape

>>18222684
sex = rape
no wait
rape = sex

>>18222683
A controversial social phenomenon that may not even exist you mean? Paraphrasing from the abstract of that paper! Not the source you were looking for.

File: Screenshot_20251208_17344(...).jpg (976 KB, 1080x2340)

976 KB JPG

>>18211948

>>18221922
>First of all, identical twins are exact genetic clones of each other. There should be no 50% chance of just choosing to be different.
I just said I agree it's not 100% fixed by genetics, just that genetics is at least A factor.
>only gives you a 50/50 chance of being similar to them
That's 10-20 times higher than the population base rate! Bayes' theorem, motherfucker, do you speak it?

>>18218974
it is still different from heterosexual men, are you sure you're not bisexual

>>18218974
>Pakistani Bro
racial differences might have something to do with it too, we're talking about normal humans

>>18222909
Astrology is more predictive. I agree it's not 100% fixed by astrology but it's at least A factor.

>>18222909
>>18222995
point being, there are ways to measure potential homosexuality the way you'd predict height based on genetics, but it's not the same or anywhere near as accurate as simply waiting for the result, which is how people actually define homosexuality. They don't use genes or physiognomy, they wait and see what happens. Even with the gayest kids, society leaves it up to self-identification and actions. Assuming someone is straight because of their physiognomy already caused enough hardship, men aren't going to trust gays not to sleep with women.

>>18222739
The social phenomenon is real because attempts to study it give consistent results. It is real in the sense that it corresponds to something that isn't a frivolous temporary thing that can be changed by make-believe. Gay men aren't suddenly going to exhibit straight sexual responses and vice versa.

>>18224157
Correlation is not causation. The measurement is conducted based on your idea of the phenomenon, supporting the expected conclusion. It doesn't argue that images are somehow related to the genesis of the phenomenon or its essence. One cannot use stimulus response to predict future sexuality, it's only used as a snapshot of self-identifying adults with established life patterns. This is the same type of study design that finds subtle brain variations in trans people to declare them more like their chosen gender, you can't do it ahead of time.

>>18222084
Ah ok.
You didn't really say anything so I just followed my own train of thought. Everything is a gene expression activated by the environment, but no gene will make you exceptional because genes don't define social structures like that. Even if you're exceptional genetically you can still die in a freak way for instance.
I do not understand what you are trying to say. Why are you conflating accidental deaths with society making individuals exceptional and not genes? If a person is born five standard deviations above the normal IQ score in their area, would they not be by default exceptional? Even if they die of measels at the age of six that would still be an exceptional child. Your second sentence does not follow from the first.
>>18222117
We aren't talking about sex. Generalizing, any man can fuck/be fucked in the ass; all women can practice cunnilingus. We are discussing attraction. What today we would call homosexuality involves unconditioned long term sustained attraction to the same sex (IE, it excludes prison gays and other situational relationships). Often with a romantic-emotional component.

>>18224254
A man raped in the ass was just raped. A man who systematically looks for opportunities to be fucked in the ass by his own free will, even under threat of death or punishment if caught is homosexual.

>>18224254
what's exceptional about another childhood death (in africa) whose IQ was never measured? If you have great height genetics but get injured or malnutrition and don't grow tall, are you exceptionally tall?

>>18224254
>it's not gay to be some guy's prison bitch
ok

>>18224254
>>18224327
these complexities will always be your problem as someone trying to find a kernel of biological determinism. There's no 1:1 biological equivalent to a cultural idea. We're not talking about the cultural idea of red hair or brown eyes either, this is something that really changes with your circumstances. That's the ultimate proof it's social, there's no other explanation for different eras of history. All we can do is deny they ever existed.