>Jesus was the only human who lived a completely sinless life>implying fetuses who died via abortion/miscarriage and infants who died after birth have sinned.I’m not attempting to rage bait or anything I sincerely want to understand this concept correctly because I’m sure there’s something I’m failing to understand m about this.
>>18221341Infants have no free will, yetNo Free will means incapable of choosing and therefore does not count
>>18221418What if you took 1000 kids and executed them the moment they made their first free choice? Do you think all 1000 would necessarily use their first free choice to sin?
>>18221429It isn't a sacrifice if it's by choiceThe person involved must have a full awareness of what is going on; otherwise, it is just murder in God's eyes
>>18221418So abortion is holy, as it sends souls immediately to heaven before they gain free will and can condemn themselves to hell via sinning.
>>18221431Then the murderer repents and goes to heaven along with the kids. Win win. Or they don't and go to hell but at a 1 to 1000 ratio for souls saved.
>>18221431I said nothing about sacrifice, incel. I'm simply asking whether some of those kids will have lived a completely sinless life AND exercised moral agency.
Paul says he was completely blameless before the law too
>>18221432Is anti natalism even more holy then . Since couples can refuse to have sex or choose to . Make a baby or not. If they dont make a baby thats one less being god could potentialy damn . So it would be ethical for parents not to have children and rick potential damnation of there offspring .
>>18221432>>18221436Let people choose how to live their lives, dumbass>repentsRepent means accepting that you are wrongIf you never saw any problem with what you did, you probably won't be repenting anytime soon
>>18221341Premise is fucking retarded.>Original Sin ≠ Personal SinFetuses and infants haven't committed actual, personal sins (no moral agency). They still inherit a fallen nature (original sin) which is why they still need Christ's redemption. Christ's sinlessness proves the standard, their condition shows why the standard is needed. Baptism of Desire/Blood of Christ covers them. This is literally basic Augustinian/Thomist theology.
>>18221479This is Catholic barbarity that treats God like some sort of glitching program that has to balance a checksum or treats evil like some sort of metaphysical magic. God won't punish any infants in the resurrection for something somebody else did.
>>18221341Mary was also free of original sin, but the question depends on the sect. Short version, only the most frothing protestants tend toward babies in hell. The kind who could add -Emperor to Fod and fit right in in 40k. Catholics have moral responsibility, orthodox have the 40 day judgement, etc. There's shit like that everywhere and often multiple traditions in single religions on the topic. Hell, purgatory and the church penitent isn't snd has never been official catholic doctrine but it works as one explanation, I guess, if you like that.It's one of those things where I'd actually recommend going and sending an email to a jesuit or finding a member of the oratory or breaking into a cistercian monastery or something for specifics. There's a pile of weird theological questions that have answers you can't answer on the internet without the background for it. I've done it before for other questions and they don't give a shit if you're one of them or not. Usually.
>>18221474>thinking he can know what's in another man's heartPride. Enjoy burning :)
>>18221341He's the only person who never ever will sin. No matter how long he lives, no matter what scenario - he never sins. Every person will eventually sin at some point or in some situation and virtually everyone who can already has.
Think of a strong person enslaving your body via physical force and putting you to work via threat of physical violence. Now think the same of a priestly person enslaving your mind via social intrigue and putting you to work via threat of metaphysical violence.Thats all "you are born a sinner/original sin" is, an intimidating motivator to put you to work that doesnt really exist (cause the spiritual plane and metaphysics dont exist) but your retarded/cowardly mind is tricked into creating an image out of thin air and so the effect is real.
>>18221341There are two aspects of sin. Consequences of sin and the guilt of your own personal sin.When Christians say, all men are sinners, it is not that all have the guilt of sin. It means we all suffer the consequences from the sin of Adam, the sin of your parents, the sin of our nation, etc.When Adam sinned he caused the entire universe to fall, Death entered the world, man's nature changed (becoming easily susceptible to temptation), animals changed (no predation or killing before the fall), and much more. A rift between man and God was created.That is the ancestral sin we all suffer from, but we aren't personally guilty of what Adam did or our parents. When your mother drank alcohol in pregnancy causing you to become a retard it was not your fault, but you suffered for it.Now personal sin is the sin you commit yourself by your own volition, it is on you. This can be avoided, although it is near impossible due to our fallen nature - sometimes just thinking about sinning can be a sin already, so you can see the problem with trying to never sin.This is the reason for Christ being birthed from the virgin Mary, the tradition teaches us that she never sinned by her own volition, The Holy Spirit was able to reach her, and Chirst was able to inhabit her pure being and not be tainted by the fallen nature of man. Christ is the new Adam, nature renovated like before the fall, pure will free from Adam's sin.That is the correct account of sin, not all Christian sects agree, that's where confusion comes from. Just know they're wrong and think infants are damned until baptized, or other weird heresies.For example Catholics invented that Mary herself had a virgin birth from her mother, in their theology only in this way it would be possible for her to be free from the guilt of sin, and be able to birth the Christ. These are false teachings.
