What's everyones favourite period of irish history? I personally find the long struggle they had for independence pretty interesting but i wish knew more in detail about it rather than just a mere broad overview. What books do you recommend?
>long struggle for independenceWhile a couple of rebel songs draw a line between every single rebellion, in truth the "long struggle" took many forms; whether it was medieval Gaelic lords resisting the start of colonisation, the surviving Catholic nobility trying to support the Stuarts to end the persecution of Catholics, or then later on the more modern Irish nationalism that was less about religion and more about independence.Some books you might enjoy:>The Nine Years War, 1593-1603 (James O'Neill)Perfect transition from pre-colonial Ireland to colonial Ireland. A Gaelic Lord (Hugh O'Neill) has made a career by positioning himself as "England's Man in Ulster", only to realise that despite his loyalty England plan to do away with him as well. Disillusioned, he joins other rebellious lords in a war that brought the English administration in Ireland to the brink of total collapse. Very cool book of early modern Irish political/military history.>The Year of Liberty (Thomas Pakenham)Maybe a bit dated, but I still think it's one of the better books on this topic. With the failure of constitutional reformists in the 1700s to bring an end to the shitshow that was Penal Ireland, a group of Protestants-inspired by the French Revolution-form a new ideology and stage a rebellion aimed at establishing an Irish Republic. This is the start of "modern" Irish nationalism; from this movement flowed most revolutionary movements for the rest of Irish history. To this day it is still marked as the "start" of Irish Republicanism.For the actual revolutionary era (1916-1922) there are so many good ones.>Guerrilla Days in Ireland (Tom Barry)A book about fighting for the IRA, by one of its best commanders.>A Nation and not a Rabble (Diarmaid Ferriter)Great general overview of Ireland at that time. Most of Ferriter's books are great.If you're really stuck "The Green Flag" by Robert Kee is a bulky but great history of Irish Nationalism in general.
>>18222409(cont)The Troubles is a slightly different beast, because it deals with the awkward fact that the Irish establishment decided in the mid 20th Century that the IRA/Irish Republicanism was now a threat to them despite being the reason they exist as a country.So while the likes of the Provisional IRA or Official IRA arguably had far greater reason to begin their campaign than the original IRA of the 1920s did (in terms of immediate threat to the Irish communities), they did not enjoy popular support from anyone in the media or most of the political establishment. Sinn Féin were banned, and there are multiple contesting narratives. Some suggested books both to understand the period and simply interesting things about it:>Revolutionary in Ireland (Seán MacStiofáin)An autobiography of the 1st Chief of Staff of the Provisional IRA. I cannot think of a better book to understand the bridge between the fading mid 20th Century IRA and the massive rebirth of the movement in the 1970s. Also just a really interesting perspective.>Freedom Stuggle (1973)A book by the Provisional IRA which includes their perspective of the "long stuggle." Important though that while incredibly interesting it was literally a propaganda book; it's not woefully inaccurate anywhere but its value is mostly to understand the perspective of Republicans in the early 1970s.>Making Sense of the Troubles (David McKittrick)Great all-rounder for that period. It is more pro-establishment, so takes a more favourable view of a British perspective, but if you are reading all round the Troubles you will be able to cut through that to get the good stuff.>Peter Taylor's BooksI also always recommend these as good all-rounders on each belligerent; the IRA, Loyalists, and the Brits.
I am also very happy to suggest books on Ulster Unionism/Ulster Loyalism (early or Troubles era), but since OP specifically asked about nationalism I'll leave it unless someone asks.Secret suggestion:>The Lost Revolution (Hanley and Millar)Top-tier Troubles reading. Contains some of the wackiest shit the far-lefties got up to; North Korean jungle training, doomsday bunkers, Soviet superdollar plots, all manner of madness. Won't help you understand the Troubles, but will show you some weird shit that went on beneath the hood.>Anois ar theacht an tSamhraidh (Mcviegh and Rolston)This is the "forbidden knowledge" book that got a big bump recently; it is a perplexing read if you don't already have a general grip on the broad strokes of Irish history, but if you do it is an incredible read. Irish historiography for much of the 20th Century was only ever very slightly critical of Britain's role in Irish history on account of the "don't annoy our biggest trading partner" rhetoric that dominated the Irish establishment for so long.This book (also named "Ireland, Colonialism, and the Unifnished Revolution) peels that back. It isn't page after page of Britbashing, but it certainly holds no punches in its explanation of both historic and contemporary politics and how they're influenced by Britain (and the US+a couple others) in a horrible, hope-flatterning way. I strongly recommend it (whether you like the notion of Irish nationalism or not) simply because its an incredibly well written and interesting book.If you are a "moderate" politically in Ireland it is probably going to blackpill you and make you feel like a retard, though.
>>18222409>>18222418>>18222424Thanks brah. I'll check the library for these and see what they have. Irish history fascinates me because it in a way mirrors the struggle of my own nation. Iz gud. >>18222379Good stuff desu. I'd love to visit some museum over there if i had the cash to travel, but i'm studying so i can't afford much. Fine metalwork is goated and is forever.
>>18222606Some of the books (and many more other cool things) can be found completely for free at>republicanarchive.com/The books specifically are under the "Books" section, both MacStiofáin's book and Freedom Struggle are there. It also has a shitload of newspapers, articles, journals, all sorts going back centuries within Irish Republicanism.
Britishers GENOCIDING my Irish brothers makes my heart burn. Sad and pathetic the homeland is still occcupied. We kicked the redcoats out her but they failed at home…
>>18222753>genocidingThe only period in Irish history where the word "genocide" tends to come up is the Famine in the 19th Century, although basically all Irish historians agree that the term is dubious in its use.The British Government during the famine were categorically not trying to exterminate the Irish. A mixture of incompentence and malice is what fuelled Britain's response; some attempted to grant aid in a way they truly believed would sort things out (but they were horrifically misguided) and others either didn't care or (as is often showcased) considered it a net positive.There is absolutely no question that the suffering and deaths were Britain's fault; decade after decade of the retarded colonial approach to Ireland is how things got so utterly fucked in the first place, but to take the decisions+actions taken by multiple governments over more than a century and a half to label a few years in the 1840s as a "genocide" is (in my view, correctly) seen as a bit of a reach.
>>18222753>Britishers GENOCIDING my Irish brothers makes my heart burn. Sad and pathetic the homeland is still occcupied. We kicked the redcoats out her but they failed at home…Anglo Saxon Americans who despised the irish were the ones who kicked out the irish and highland scottish british redcoats whom they despised and fought against on ethnic grounds. And the greatest fighters in this struggle were ulster scots
>>18222686>"murder" and "torture" of irish prisonerslol, lmao
>>18222864Yes, murder and torture. Nobody really denies that stuff happened anymore.>heh, epic thatcher BTFOs bobby sandsThe Hunger Strikers not only had every single one of their demands implemented, but Bobby Sands became an international hero overnight. There are streets named after him, monuments to him, all sorts.Pretty much the only person who thought Thatcher's attempt to "strongarm" the situation in Northern Ireland was Thatcher herself, even her own staff urged her not to be such a retard about it. She accomplished nothing and caused many to flock to the IRA at a time when it was beginning to lose steam.There are many, many, many things that the Provos or Shinners could very easily be criticised for, but most seem to insist on clinging to decades old Loyalist slop that doesn't make any sense.
>>18222859>Anglo Saxon Americans who despised the irish were the ones who kicked out the irish and highland scottish british redcoats whom they despised and fought against on ethnic grounds.Yeah none of that is true. Don't even bother posting that green text you posted 5 times already because it proves nothing. >>18222753Kys
>>18222869>murder and tortureProof?>The Hunger Strikers not only had every single one of their demands implementedNobody in the IRA thought that at the time.>Bobby Sands became an international hero overnightHe became an Irish hero because the Irish retardedly thought that a murderous terrorist who deliberately starved himself to death was somehow a victim of British oppression worthy of sympathy. Overseas nobody outside of fringe leftist circles gave a shit.
>>18222359At the time when the country was famous for being a land of 'saints and scholars', the population was only like 100k to 200k. Must have been wild to have been an educated person on the island at that time, you might have known every other educated person to see them. >>18222816The plantations were also genocide according to the modern definition, as well as various actions of British generals in Ireland. Genocide is not only the attempt to wipe people out (whether successful or not), it also includes any attempt to reduce the population (also whether successful or not, but pretty clearly when successful). Many famines in history were genocidal because the response from the state was designed to ensure certain populations starved while certain others gained some extra land out of the deal.
>>18222886>Yeah none of that is true. Don't even bother posting that green text you posted 5 times already because it proves nothing.CopeAnglo Americans hated taigs which is why the klan existed
>>18222886>proof?It has been considered common knowledge that torture took place in HMP Maze, as found by multiple reports and investigations-the best known being that of Phil Scraton, the guy who did a lot of the work on the Hillsborough Disaster.As for "murder", Thatcher was PM during the founding and operation of the Force Research Unit, one of several replacements for the Military Reaction Force. The FRU colluded with Loyalist Paramilitaries, as was an established practice by this point.>Nobody in the IRA thought that at the time.When Sands died, every Republican outlet both IRA and non-IRA spent weeks doing propaganda victory laps as the rest of the world piled on the UK in condemnation. The May issues of An Phoblacht are but one example.>He became an Irish hero Could have simply stopped there. Whether it makes you seethe or not, the reality of the matter is that the death of Sands absolutely rattled the British Government and set back any progress they'd made in suppressing the IRA by years. I cannot believe there are still people who deny this, even the stickies gave up trying to deny it.>murderous terroristWho did Bobby Sands kill?Thatcher's "handling" of the Hunger Strikers was essentially:>IRA decide to hunger strike to put pressure on the British Government restore their special category status>Thatcher tries to strongarm them and says no>Hunger strike continues>"they'll give up any day now chaps, hang in there!">hunger strikers don't give up>they die>become martyrs, many of them (despite being quite irrelevant within the movement as a whole) become heroes overnight>all of their demands are granted>all of thatcher's staff who urged her to engage with them try not to say "I told you so"Do you get all your information from Facebook?
>>18222911American colonials hated none more than the English of England and the klan existed in places where there was no Irish people or Catholics. You have a bad case of IDS.
>>18222928>American colonials hated none more than the English of EnglandThe American Colonials received most support among the english dissenters and ulster protestants. Ex jaboties were the most anti american and loyal to the british crown by the time of the american revolution.The Klan was explicitely anti catholic and was formed to fight against taigs and wops and other foreign undesireables
>>18222918>muh loyalist collusionThe claim was "murder and torture of Irish prisoners", loyalists killed people on the outside. And it's still a huge stretch to claim that Thatcher is somehow a culpable accomplice to loyalist killings as there was no collusion whatsoever that far up the ladder.>the rest of the world piled on the UK in condemnationNever happened.>Who did Bobby Sands kill?He tried to murder several constables who were rightfully trying to arrest him after he and his psycho friends bombed a local furniture store.>the reality of the matter is that the death of Sands absolutely rattled the British Government and set back any progress they'd made in suppressing the IRA by yearsI don't deny that it was a setback given how it galvanized Catholic public opinion against the British government, but they were still in the moral right to let terrorists kill themselves if they so wished while Catholics were in the wrong to react with outrage.
>>18222932The Klan got their asses kicked any time they tried to go up against Catholics.>It was May 1924, and the Ku Klux Klan wanted to showcase its power and cement its sudden grip on Indiana politics by holding a picnic and parade in South Bend, the most Catholic area in the state.>About 500 University of Notre Dame students showed their objections by storming downtown and ripping the hoods and robes off surprised Klan members. As the Klan arrived in trains, buses and cars, the students roughed members up in alleys and stole their regalia for battle trophies. They chased the rest to the Klan headquarters downtown at the corner of Wayne and Michigan streets.
>>18222962Taig propaganda where the klan were outnumbered ten to ones anywaysWith numbers equal no taig could hope to compete with an anglo klansman
>>18222987>Taig propaganda where the klan were outnumbered ten to ones anyways>With numbers equal no taig could hope to compete with an anglo klansman
>>18222987>Carnegie Klan Riot (Carnegie, Pennsylvania, August 1923): In another significant incident, Irish Catholic residents of Carnegie armed themselves with clubs, pistols, bricks, and rocks to face an equally armed KKK group marching through their town. A riot broke out, resulting in a "terrible beating" for the Klan members and one Klansman killed. The Klan reportedly never returned to the town after that night. https://www.unionprogress.com/2023/08/25/when-the-klan-came-to-town-100-years-ago-carnegie-residents-fought-back-and-things-got-bloody
>>18223051>>18223071If le taigs were so good then why did the klan prove victorious in two out of three of their iterations?
>>18223082>then why did the klan prove victorious in two out of three of their iterations?Post them. Everytime Nativisits or the KKK went up against the Irish they got their ass kicked.
>long struggle for independence Lol. They had more MPs than Scotland. They joined the army, they migrated to England, they partook in our economy and culture. They were part of our country and most didn't care
>>18223147t. mad bong
>>18222409>>Guerrilla Days in Ireland (Tom Barry)are there any other books like this? first hand accounts from the first IRA
>>18224826Dan Breen's "My Fight for Irish Freedom" is the most famous, but you can also just browse the Witness Statements online at the Bureau of Military History. It's free, and anyone who claimed a pension for their service in the war gave one.>https://bmh.militaryarchives.ie/
