The first Bell Beakers were Megalithic Sol-worshipping Iberian Chalcolithic EEFs who seem to have proselytized their culture & faith to the Aryans on the Rhine. Even when these latter came West with conquest & slaughter they demolished nothing & vastly improved Stonehenge. I.e. not a conquestThese CWC-derived Beakers, polygynous, warlike, individualistic, came only to breathe new life into the declining, Medievalistic world of the West. A rare & perfect synthesis of high culture & barbarism had been achieved & therewith the first Cosmopolitan race and Universal Man. Indo-Europeans of the Bell Beaker Culture sailed from Iberia to invade Sardinia in the about the same era (2400-2100 BC) that they settled the Balearic Islands & invaded Sicily (Sicanians). However, the local EEFs were eventually able to drive them & their allies out. Btfo.
>>18224169Here we go again with this subject? anon, I imagine that as your article holds, you are saying that bell beaker pottery is a good argument in favor of an Iberian origin, but there are some problems with that. Even in archaeological terms.First, the bell beaker culture was much more than just the ceramic style. We had two traditions, one from the north and one from the south. All of the characteristics that mark it as popped up first in the Rhine c. 2400 BC then spread to Iberia c. 2250 BC or so. There is no evidence of any migration out of Portugal.
>>18224171No, the professor João Luís Cardoso showed that the individuals found in the sites with the earliest evidences for the Bell Beaker period, in Portugal, do not have the genetic contribution from Central Europe. The Bell Beaker culture was originally a civilized Iberian culture, but it greatly influenced the Indo-Europeans beyond the Rhine
>>18224175>The Bell Beaker culture was originally a civilized Iberian culture, but it greatly influenced the Indo-Europeans beyond the RhineAnd the reasons for this are merely due to a style of pottery manufactured in the Iberian Peninsula that later spread north...? Right? But let me explain that this is a very weak argument.Since we are focusing on culture material, the typology of vessels found in individual graves in the Netherlands, in what would be the single grave ramifications of the Bell Beakers.The Dutch and Netherlandish groups of individual graves produced the Bell Beaker type with a protruding foot, and it is described as being the direct ancestor of the ornate vessels that later spread throughout Western Europe, in addition to other cultural elements. All this confusion is due to you confusing the two traditions, Bell Beakers... we basically have two types, one in the north similar to the individualistic Indo-European ones and another in the South Atlantic, as you commented. See the photo.
>>18224183See Maritime style tard the older Beakers are Maritime Beakers there's these two traditions close by one another near Stonehenge in the single grave of the Amesbury Archer (and the nearby Archer's companion), and in the collective grave of the Boscombe Bowmen.There's more evidence for migration out of Portugal than to Portugal at that time, especially along the Atlantic route rather than into central Europe. I have a 2017 paper based on HLA genes, showing a unique link across the Atlantic.
>>18224190I don't need to waste time with schizophrenic articles about "Iberian origin," because, like them, you're clinging to your favorite pet theory. Genetics has already debunked this "hypothesis," and before that, we already know that there were at least two related overlapping traditions, among other things—two burial traditions: collective and single graves, understand? The latter shows continuity with the second and ultimately originates from the single grave culture, now supported by genetics... The reasons for adopting this different style can be discussed, in fact, but that doesn't imply an "Iberian origin," and stop reducing the Bell Beaker culture to this style of pottery.
>>18224194>semantics n shietKek u're ignorant of basic facts, tard You've already called the Atlantic model "fringe" and has "no" evidence, it is supported by the worlds most respected Celtic scholars, even koch and now you don't know anything about the Bell Beakers.The BB folk came from modern Portugal/Galicia (ABA) not the Rhine its over
>>18224197No, they didn't originate in Portugal. There's no reason to take this hypothesis seriously besides some articles that focus excessively on maritime traditions and a specific style of pottery, which, I remind you, is not what solely defines BBs... this is a tradition. I won't say this again. We have samples of Rhine.See>>18224183
>>18224209>samples of the rhineAnd? Holy shit, man, what stupidity, huh, animal? I told you to research maritime tradition. Dumb tapir. This also has nothing strictly to do with genetics, by the way. The bell-shaped vessels themselves do not originate in the east, in the steppe - the origin of all Indo-European languages, the "bell-shaped vessel phenomenon" is a product of the Atlantic Bronze Age and spread eastward - mainly defined by the pottery you mentioned. at this point you are desperate and lying compulsively these ARE NOT THE FIRST BBC then why is named after a material and burying tradition originated in Iberia by 2,800 BC? What an absurd implications KYS BTFO'd
>>18224212Your dates are wrong or outdated, the article I cited explicitly uses the ID >Bohemia_BB_Early>mean of >2400 BCEas cultural characteristics that I mentioned popped up first in the Rhine c.2400BC then spread to Iberia c.2250BC or so. I am simply repeating myself here over and over while you insult me. Bohemia_BB_*Early* are similar to population CWC, either in material>>18224183 or genetic terms, as supported by the article here:https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8386934/>Both Corded Ware and Bell Beaker groups underwent dynamic changes, involving sharp reductions and complete replacements of Y-chromosomal diversity at ~2600 and ~2400 BCE, respectively, the latter accompanied by increased Neolithic-like ancestry. The Bronze Age saw new social organization emerge amid a ≥40% population turnover.>To explore this genetic shift, we modeled the ancestry of Bohemia_BB_Late as a two-way mixture of Bohemia_BB_Early and local Middle Eneolithic sources (table S30), finding support for an additional ~20% local Middle Eneolithic–like ancestry in late compared to early BB.
>>18224245the Earliest Bell Beakers are from Iberia, in 2700bc. And there was NO steppe ancestry present here in this time your genetic reductionism, culture ≠ DNA.Material culture (pottery, burial rites) can spread without mass migration as Harrison
Non-IE beakers are called the Maritime beaker, and they spread as the name suggests through maritime routes out of Iberia into France and Italy. The Maritime beaker reaches Southwest germany, inhabited by the Corded-ware Indo-europeans in 2600 BC its over
The simplest explanation is that indo Europeans spread from Ukraine by boat Greece, Italy and Iberia. They then mixed with Iberian eef to form bell beakers. Then migrated north and mixed with corded ware to form British bell beakers. The ancient Scottish and Irish both believed they migrated from the scythia to Spain
