Is the demise of The End of History permanent? Spengler predicted the end of Money as the main power in the world, with Blood overthrowing it, as far as I can see this is a fact, after 2018 it appears every single global event has shown how naive it was to think shared economic interests could keep world peace, we rediscovered for some, no amount of gold can replace some things.
What is it basically, America will turn into Russia/Hungary/Turkey with an illiberal Ceasar keeping the forms, crush down unrest at home and start a war against China?
oswald spergler
Depends if the EU and China can decouple from the US hegemon and central bankings influence.As far as defence goes Hezbollah has shown guerilla tactics and open source intelligence are capable of defeating military forces that are much larger and better funded.
>>18240630>Hezbollah couldn't be reach to verify this claim.
>>18240648salty because a modern military took L's against a volunteer force
>>18240620being a sperg is the way
>>18240658It's interesting because despite being successful it ended up having no real battlefield impact.
>>18240666They have multiple victories some more impactful than others like any guerrilla force.
>>18240598>no amount of gold can replace some things.Clean drinking water is more valuable than gold, if you don't think so try to go a few days without water
>>18240598The world economic system will remain intact for at least a few hundred years more. What the beginning of Caesarism means in Spengler's system is that you will not be able to spend your way into power, anymore. The vestigial institutions will disintegrate. And be replaced by sheer force.
>>18240772While I hate the Roman parallelisms. It's at least mildly relevant in this case. The mediterranean economic system only broke down in the final century of Civilization during the third century crisis.
>>18240772not if the EU's digital id and currency system has anything to say about it, they will enforce good boy points
>>18240874That is not going to impair the Economic system. It's just another step the faustians take toward fulfilling their bizarre socialistic tendencies.
It remains to be seen if Trump will be like Rhodes, able to direct the wealth of the Tech Magnates with their Hard Souls towards his own schemes.
>>18240938Doens't have to be Trump, necessarily. It's not like there is only one chance and if the guy fails history just stops. Trump is already doing enough by messing with trade and getting into fights with the American Justice system.
>>18240960Doesn't*>>18240615I don't think so. The 'Caesar' (who is not a guy, contrary to common belief, it's a process) is not restricted by ideology. It could be liberal, illiberal, it could be communist, nazi, whatever. Your analogies do not work: Russia is very much its own thing (almost feudal rather than normal authoritarian) while Hungary isn't any more authoritarian than the average libtarded EU State, just chuddy about it. And I don't know much about Turkey, but it would be safe to assume it probably works on the logic of a Sultanate more than anything else. Like every polity in the middle east save for Israel.
>>18240979There isnt really much difference between watermelon seller and natty-yahoo by this point, they have more in common than they will dare to admit.
>>18241152Can you please inform me? I don't keep up with Mr. Watermelon too much.I class Israel as (partly) faustian mostly by holistic means.
>>18241178Israel is an imported faustian colony while Turkey is a magian country with strong faustian pseudomorphosis, like Bibi, Erdo used democratic procedures to ensure his own power, like Bibi, he relies on being the "moderate" and pragmatic among rightwing people, and like him, he plays the only politics that, according to Spengler, matters, which is geopolitics.Both Turkey and Israel have a demographic pool based on conservative values which allow them to bring for the human capital needed to keep themselves active players and both have become adept to faustian mitary technologies, the result of bitter historical experiences.Both peoples are often a pain in the ass, but I would rather have them on the side of the Western World due their strong will to power and lack of liberal sentimentalities when it comes to killing rivals and perceived enemies. EU could remember itself how things are done by taking note from these frontier nations.
>>18241446Tbh I have always thought of Israel in practice as a mixed Faustian/Magian state. Largely because of the large population of Orthodox Jews. Iirc they tend to be rather insular. And haredis iirc try to keep their distance from Israel, Shas aside. Though the Zionist project in on itself is an expression of Faustian civilization through and through.As for milutary technology, ehh, all countries in the world have adopted them, at this point.
>he didn't predict fake numbers on a screen replacing moneynobody in the west has the stomach to spill blood, it's uncivilized
>>18241531He had figured out that 'money' was completely secondary to the numbers of paper way before numbers of a screem became a problem.
>>18241557He is from the weimar period, so of course he knew money can become an ever diminishing abstraction.
>>18242073Yes. But at the same time, his thought was that westerners didn't think the currency itself was money. The numbers of a paper, on a screen, are much more money than a coin ever would be.
>>18240598Spengler was heavily bluepilled on "Zivilization" imperialism. He imagined it as a will to power utopia where Nietzschean supermen romp around doing whatever they want. He has almost nothing valuable to say on it. He almost completely dismisses the Roman empire as "historyless" and not worth studying. His obsession with money was because he hated Marxism so much, which he accused of being "upside down capitalism", this ironically turned Spengler into an "upside down Marxist".In reality money has very little to do with imperialism. Toynbee's idea of the Universal State is a much better appraisal of the role of the Roman empire in the final stages of antiquity than Spengler's obsession with Marxism.
>>18241531It was the Greeks who invented coinage. Because the Greek prime symbol was the near and present body, they had to think of economics itself as a physical body. This is a perfect example of how a society creates a thing only they could've thought of with their specific cultural ethos which then immediately spreads like wildfire across the whole world because of its practical utility (another being Western firearms).Spengler of course could not have predicted digital currency but it makes perfect sense in the Western mind. The Western prime symbol being infinite space, digital currency is the liberation of currency from the physical into the infinite i.e. like music, it exists everywhere and nowhere, no longer bound by the constraints of physical objects that must be carried and stored.
>>18242752Well they did not invent it, anatolians reproducing Mesopotamian civilization did. However they were the first to ascribe meaning to it. And of course the Greeks were the ones that made coinage their own, not the Phyrgians or Lydians.As for digital currency, I agree. Though I think we were already taking steps in this direction with the abolishment of Bretton Woods transforming the dollar into a fiat currency. This is just the next step on that trend.Honestly I can't believe how right Spengler was when he wrote that the only fields that still had their great innovations ahead of them were Law and Economics. I'll adress the guy above in a sec.
>>18242740I do not think that is quite right. Only the Faustian equivalent would be like this. But that's because will-to-power and flouting all limitations has been in the Faustian soul since the beginning. After Imperialism comes a return to nature of sorts. He does not dismiss the Roman empire as historyless (especially not the east, which he spends a long time speaking about), though he certainly lowers it to counteract the pseudo-idolization of it current during his time and before.Can you explain why you think he had an obssesion with money? I do not see it.P.S: I think Toynbee was unserious and inconsistent. He gets hung up on the merely causal, makes hasty generalizations, dilutes the content; tries to tackle history like he'd tackle entomology. Very english, really.
>>18242768Though I think its very ineteresting that the first greek coins we have have inscriptions reading how many sheep a specific coin is worth. This was very early on, later the coin would become the valuable thing.Also, I think primitives think of money as a sort of universal barter-good. Things like currency exist all around the world, but are generally meaningless. There is nothing deeper behind it.
>>18242752In general faustian culture invites to the construction of systems designed for infinite expansion, hence space programs and internet.
>>18243706They also a certain hatred of concrete, physical space. There is always something more.>But is not just this the secret intent of our physical theories, of each new hypothesis? No other Culture knows so many fables of treasures lying in mountains and pools, of secret subterranean realms, palaces, gardens wherein other beings dwell. The whole substantiality of the visible world is denied by the Faustian Nature-feeling, for which in the end nothing is of earth and the only actual is Space. The fairy-tale dissolves the matter of Nature as the Gothic style dissolves the stone-mass of our cathedrals, into a ghostly wealth of forms and lines that have shed all weight and acknowledge no bounds.
>>18243770Spengler noticed faustians are very unsatisfied with things.
>>18244917I wouldn't say that, actually. Very satisfied in some ways. They may be lonely, but not unsatisfied.
>>18240598Yeah bro it's over. You can send me yours.
>>18240772So military power will get a comeback? What about the megacorporate titans such as Musk?
>>18245135He is done for, its all military strength now
>>18245290Or maybe he can switch to arms production, optimus armwd with apartheid assault rifles sounds like a lot of money.
>>18245383How did he even start?
>>18245135Not military power per se, force. Getting a mob of enraptured supporters to do XYZ or using your appointed lackeys to make your enemies in the media relent is force. Caesarism is about institutional dissolution into personalism, and the triumph of blood over money. Donald Trump in this case is a very early form of Caesarism because of how he erodes the institutions of the U.S and how twisted the U.S party system into being all about him. As for enterprising business men. They are probably the stock from which the "Caesar-type" of the west will come. Spengler believed so, Cecil Rhodes in particular being the prototype of the coming man. musk himself is kind of flacid so I doubt he'll get to anything. But someone else.
>>18240615Only Turkey is a valid comparison, because in Speingler's system, Ottoman Empire was the caesarist state of the Arabian civilization,in wich the Civilization cycle has ended. Russia on the other hand is not even a pre-civilization society, but a pre cultural society that is yet to express itself in it's own unique way(hitherto it was under western pseudomorphsis), and hungary is just a part of the west,and in it is what is about to come best seen, the cracks have begun to show.
>>18240598Money is king, he predicted shit
>>18240772define sheer force? what kind of force?
>>18245623I don't know, maybe sharing a video of whatifautist?
>>18246247Exactly, rather the age of cyberpunk corporations is coming.
>>18246247>Caesar taking over? Nah bro, Pompey has all the money, and anyone can be bought for the right price
>>18247545What was the secret for Caesar's victory?
>>18247934Popularity
Well, if we want to go back being primitive retards with no technology sure, let's abandon money. Leadership is so stupid it's gonna happen
