I was watching this and I got curious. Does the Catholic Church have no "live to fight another day" doctrine? Did 15 centuries of dominance dull their survival instinct? It's curious that every time they encounter resistance or persecution they have to reinvent a "live to fight another day" doctrine from scratch.
>>18241272Christianity is all about martyrdom. That was swelled over to martyring others against their will (see: liberalism and ethnomasochism).
>>18241272slave morality
>>18241272>Cathshits try to subvert and destroy Japanese culture >Shogun rightfully puts a stop to it>Cathshits proceed to cry victim Fuck the pope
>>18242921Instead they got subverted by Protestants.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_-dFODbGiYFucking retards, serves them right.
Martyrdom is the highest honor one can receive in this world as a practicing Christian.
>>18243219This. I hate this fucking move so much, it's a complete insult to the martyrs of Japan who were completely fearless in the face of persecution and were eager to die for Christ.
>>18243225I watched it a while ago but didn't it portray most of the christian martyrs in a good light?
>>18241272>Why not live to fight another day?The highest honor goes to those people who died to save their friends. It seems like common sense. Christian or otherwise.
>>18243225>>18243392The point of the movie is that Andrew Garfield's character has a martyr complex which ends getting a bunch of innocent people killed
>>18243445Yeah but it still shits on the real martyrs of Japan.
>>18243392>didn't it portray most of the christian martyrs in a good light?It did. I think it intended to only show the missionaries as misguided, trying to export Christianity to somewhere it's not welcome, pointlessly getting people killed in the process, and in the end the main character completely abandons his missionary work for a very weak arguement (that the Japanese converts don't really understand Christian theology). But it kind of fails because the Japanese establishment is shown as murderous bigots so it's hard not to symphatize with the people resisting them. And it kind of defeats the arguement that the converts aren't really Christian, they are clearly ready to die for the faith at least. Plus, in real life, a missionary probably wouldn't be surprised to hear that recent converts are hold syncretic beliefs, since this happened everywhere with the first generation of Christians, including Europe.
>>18243445>which ends getting a bunch of innocent people killedStochastic reasoning. The butterfly effect except without a time machine.
>>18242926Japan is still a ShintÅ-Buddhist country, not a protestant country
>>18241272Imagine if we'd gotten Benicio del Toro and Daniel Day Lewis in that film.
>>18241272I hated this movie. No, Rodrigues should've just died a martyr for Christ. The idea that people dying is "le bad" when your whole religion is about giving up your life for Jesus makes me wish Martin Scorsese had to witness the crucifixion first hand so he could understand the full weight of what he preached against his whole life through film.
>>18244702Rodrigues couldn't have died a martyr for Christ because the samurai didn't care about killing Rodrigues or martyring him. They wanted to make him go back on his faith. The Japanese converts already apostatized but they would still be tortured unless he renounced his faith. During the entire process, he was never at any risk to himself. He just had to watch NON-CHRISTIANS getting tortured for his pride. The film asks whether it's fucked up to be a hardass on principles if it's not you personally at stake. Other people DIDN'T want to be martyred, and in fact apostatized, is it fucked up if you're martyring them anyway for your own pride?
>>18244937We don't actually have proof that they apostatized though.
>>18244948They were released immediately after he renounced his faith. In the same scene no less.
>>18245924What if they had been willing to die as martyrs and Rodrigues got duped?
