Is the "Italian & Irish weren't considered white" meme, actually just sectarian suspicion from Protestants towards Papists, or did this emanate from a racial foundation? American identity was fundamentally protestant, and I feel this racial lens confuses a post-colonial construction of identity to what was actually a religious one.
>>18244654The Pope hadn't been nerfed into the ground and still had the ability to summon armies to his defense back then and he did make the Italian Catholics straight up shun the Italian government too, so the paranoid did have reasons to fear his power.But the Protestants also naturally fear and shun the light of Jesus Christ's true church founded on the rock that is Saint Peter, as do all the Atheists.
>>18244654They were formally considered white, but MENAs also do today.
>>18244654Only the Southern Italians were considered nonwhite. Northern and Central Italy was considered white. It was because they were poor, swarthy, and were into bootlegging and the mafia
>>18244654"Irish need not apply" signs were real, but the "Irish weren't white" is a retcon by modern libs to claim whites don't exist.
>>18244654>Irish weren't considered whiteMostly an Americanism born from early discrimination against mongolot Irish immigrants who arrived in the 19th Century. Existing biases toward things like Catholicism or generally against masses of unskilled immigrants also played into it. There was never really a time in history outside of the US or English autism where the Irish were seen as not part of the wider European population. The Irish had religious and political ties to many courts across continental Europe (in particular France, Spain and the HRE) throughout the middle ages and this only grew over time in countries like Austria or further afield such as in South America (Argentina, Chile, Mexico, etc). A lot of people often accidentally refer to a book called "How the Irish became White" which iirc was written by some American Communist and it mostly talks about how the Irish found social mobility in the US through institutions like the Police/Army to distinguish themselves from other marginalised groups.
>>18244654US got shitcilians.Brazil got Padanians.Nuff said.
>>18244654Legally, they were always considered white in the US. There were people who claimed Irish and Italians aren't white but that never was policy. Not counting migration quotas, legal discrimination existed against them on religious grounds, in some states, at some points, Catholics were banned from certain offices.Claiming the Irish were a non-white race was more of a British thing they used to justify the colonization of Ireland. In the US, anti-Irish racism was mostly just a reaction to the mass immigration of a foreign, catholic population.
>>18244710Irish became the cops and military because they were canon fodder. Look at the civil war for example. >>18244654It doesn’t matter. There’s a difference between ethnicity and race. There is a Jewish push that White people don’t have distinct ethnicities and instead only have a race. It’s obviously retarded, there’s 87 listed White-European ethnicities in 2025. Irish were discriminated against based on their ethnicity, not their race. The Anglo-Germanic Protestants discriminated against their rivals, the Irish-Celtic Catholics.
>>18244841>they were cannon fodderIn British armies, maybe. But Irish troops in the US Civil War and onwards were renowned, with many becoming quite famous and well off. From the 17th Century there was a huge Irish military diaspora, in France+Spain in particular there were countless commanders or even colonial rulers of Irish origin.>Anglo-Germanic Protestants discriminated against their rivals, the Irish-Celtic CatholicsThis is often overstated, such as with the mostly debunked "no blacks, no dogs, no irish" sign stuff.Discrimination was certainly there but the Irish weren't considered non-white. Most of the propaganda depicting them as brutes/thugs was a response to the Fenian Movement specifically, rather than the fact they were Irish. Outside of Britain blatant anti-Irish rhetoric of that level was incredibly rare.
>>18244654It wasn't suspicion. When the italians landed in america they founded the mob, paddies took control over the political institutions. If a bunch of immigrants nove in and starts conspiring to do crime or take control over politics you will naturally feel negative about them independent of creed or race
>>18244667Except Northern Italians, Spaniards, French, and Central Italians were considered white in America. Southern terrone were not. Nobody cared about the Northern Italians moving to California. They cared about the Italians in NYC.
>>18244770>Claiming the Irish were a non-white race was more of a British thing they used to justify the colonization of IrelandThe British never once claimed or stated the Irish were non white. This kinda nonsense is pure cancer and spread by anti Irish kikes.
>>18244841>because they were canon fodder.So just the Irish? But every other soldier in the US army were just regular soldiers especially if they were English and German Americans but the Irish are just cannon fodder because you're a seething anti Irish retard. >>18244841>The Anglo-GermanicAbsolutely no such thing. English people are not Germanic.
>>18244705Anything I can read regarding central Italians being treated differently? Like people from March or Abruzzo?
>>18244654>Is the "Italian & Irish weren't considered white" meme, actually just sectarian suspicionYes. Isn't this obvious?Until the Civil War, America was an Anglo-Saxon rather than White country. It was based around ethnicity as opposed to the broader conception of race.Why does this filter midwits so much?
>>18244986America was never an Anglo Saxon country and neither waa Britain. For fuck sake English people are only 30% Anglo Saxon at most.
>>18244993Anglo-Saxons are Germanics.
>>18244965>Absolutely no such thing. English people are not GermanicThey are culturally. Like the irish being celtic despite speaking english. Muh heritage
>>18244993Why are you pretending not to understand the obvious point? No one is talking about genetic minutiae you pedantic sperg.
>>18244654Not really, Anglos basically just used to consider everyone who wasn't Anglo as non-white. Even the other peoples of the British isles often fell under this. For instance, in Canada in the late 18th and early 19th it was frequently remarked that the French Quebecois should start "speaking White". In Britain itself, even into the 50s, the sentiment that "wogs begin at Calais" remained common.
>>18245003Anglo Saxons were Germanic but English people aren't Anglo Saxons so aren't Germanic. English people are English people and mixed origins. >>18245031English is just a language it's not the identity of the Irish people just a language they speak. If being anglo or Germanic = language then every nigger and paki in Britain is an Anglo Saxon Germanic too. >>18245035
>>18245003>>18245035He is just a schizo irish nationalist. Been here very long time. Don't engage.
>>18244654https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/03/22/sorry-but-the-irish-were-always-white-and-so-were-the-italians-jews-and-so-on/There's basically zero evidence that Irish weren't considered white except some newspaper caricature where they were depicted as a monkey
>>18245088And those cariactured were by a REPUBLICAN living in NEW YORK right after the CIVIL WAR. And if you know anything about the Irish history in new york you mat y understand why he did not like the irish a lot
>>18244654You're exactly right. Leftoids today only say that hoping you'll think blacks and Central American Indians will somehow eventually become White Americans. If they weren't considered White they wouldn't have been allowed to enter the United States.
>>18244654>>18244667>>18244670>>18244705>>18244708>>18244710Quite literally a jewish myth by Noel Ignatiev. Stupid fucking /his/ falling for jewish tricks once again.
>>18245469It wasn't just religious. French, Spaniards, and North Italians were never targeted.
>>18245701Yeah, those famously swarthy Irishmen just stood out too much.
>>18245752The Irish were poor and were indentured servants. The French and Spanish were rich and high status. It wasn't just a Catholic thing. For Irish it was being poor and indentured servants also being rowdy and not "civilized" like the British. South Italians it was that their Catholicism was very pagan like, they were swarthy and hairy, and they had organized crime and anarchism support.
>>18245781There was no indentured servitude when the Irish started flooding into America in the mid 1800s.
>>18244965English = Anglo = Germanic.
>>18245781>Spanish were rich No they weren't. At least not in the XIX Century and Early XX CenturyThe only dark-skined catholic country that was relatively rich in this time period was France
>>18246830
>>18244959Southern Italians were never considered non white by the law. They were let into the US which required being seen as white by the law. Prominent Anglo Americans in the early 1900s like Madison Grant saw them as racially inferior to north west Europeans (but still white) and didn't want them to come anymore but that's not the same as being non white. There were a lot of Sicilians in New Orleans and they used the white facilities for everything during segregation, too. The only counter example I've found is one single court ruling in the deep South where a Sicilian woman with a black husband was acquitted for a miscegenation charge because her lawyer argued that she was also black by the one drop rule, but that's just one very minor court case.
>>18247163>Sicilian woman with a black husband was acquitted for a miscegenation charge because her lawyer argued that she was also black by the one drop rule, but that's just one very minor court caselol'd at that
>>18245469>right wing is when you hate niggers
