A brutal public suicide and a guilt trip don't fix our problems.
christian theology is literally cope of how this cult leader's death was actually part of the plan
>>18244659The basis of Christianity lies in the Scapegoat Ritual in the Jewish Day of Atonement ceremonies. In the Scapegoat Ritual, two goats are selected:>One goat is sacrificed to YHVH>The other goat is symbolically imbued with the sins of the tribe and then cast out into the wilderness as an offering to Azazel (hence where we get the term "scapegoat" today)Jesus symbolically took on the role of both goats within the crucifixion narrative, absorbing the sins of the tribe and acting as a literal human sacrifice to God.Ephesians 5:2>And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.So, yes, in order to "get" Christianity you have to buy into the ritual logic of Judaism, which states that sins have a transitive property you can symbolically imbue on a sacrifice to be absolved for.
>>18244697I think the Jews are supposed to be the scapegoat since they got expelled from Judea. Christ was the sacrifice, the Jews were the scapegoat, and the whole world was redeemed.
>>18244701Isaiah 53:5>But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.^ Explicitly describing Jesus as the scapegoat.
>>18244659A more secular interpretation would be as follows:Christ was a peaceful philosopher beloved by the masses, who advocated a simple moral code that almost anyone would agree with.However the authorities hated him because it threatened their unjust and immoral regime.By brutally executing him they exposed the true depths of their depravity, alienating the public from the leadership and striking a serious blow to their legitimacy.He also did this by using their own words and standards against them which made his teachings all the more difficult to refute.In death he elevated himself to an icon or symbol that was more potent than any living man could be.Watching an innocent man be killed in such a way also provokes an intense emotional reaction in those who hear the story of the crucifixion and stirs in them a sort of righteous resolve to the morals he taught. In short, the martyrdom has a powerful effect far beyond what a simple street preacher could inspire
>>18244718>Christ was a peaceful philosopher beloved by the masses, who advocated a simple moral code that almost anyone would agree with. He only started the really radical stuff once John got thrown in prison - love thy neighbour, forgive the enemy, etc. Mark and Matthew as books are pretty seriously Jewish and basically reveal his view of the filthy gentiles - dogs to be ministered to by the people. Yappy pets that were useless, at that. The man had a very specific moral code that was ahead of its time but still pretty alien to first worlders today.Also ARIAN HERETIC GET OUT REEEEE
>>18244659>How
>>18244780>He wasn't a scapegoat he just served that explicit function as previously outlined in the ritual logic of the Tanach
>>18244788The blood of God is paid by the body of the one true living God, because in Christ there is no sin.
>>18244793I accept your concession
>>18244802You don't get it, the only way to save the people who are of God from death is for them to collectively identify as the body of the one true living God. That works because they are of God, born of the Spirit, and in Christ they redeem the Spirit which was fallen by having their justification in the name of God.
>>18244815Except that's not actually Biblical canon whereas my scapegoat interpretation has a scriptural basis in both the Old and New Testaments >>18244709
>>18244816>that's not actually Biblical canonyeah it is.You want verses about Christians collectively forming the body of Christ? You want the words from Jesus' mouth about only those born of the Spirit being eligible to come into their kingdom of heaven? You should read the bible sometime instead of relying on jew worshiping noahides to explain it for you.
>>18244820Notice how I've actually posted verses to defend my argument and you haven't>>18244697>>18244709Educate yourself on the Bible before pretending to be a Christian online.
>>18244836John 3:5 doesn't contradict my scapegoat argument at all. Also you forgot to upload whatever picture you meant to. I'm assuming at this point you're just a low effort troll since you're clearly not even trying
>>18244838>Noticefine, since you want to be spoon fed like a child I will provide you the following:Christians collectively form the body of Christ (pic related) and the other is John 3:5as I said, you should read the Bible sometime
>>18244839Repeating your failed argument doesn't make it any less asinine. Low effort troll confirmed.
>>18244844Jews don't recognize the Christian God, and your sad efforts to conflate jew worshiping noahidism with the salvation provided by the Son of God is the only pathetic thing going on here.
>>18244850You know Jesus was Jewish, right?John 4:22>You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is of the Jews.Seriously, read the Bible before embarrassing yourself like this again.
>>18244697>sins have a transitive property you can symbolically imbue on a sacrifice to be absolved for.For example, a parent who neglects their children, because they would rather further their career, has sacrificed their child's development, because of the sin of greed. If the child can't handle the neglect, they might lash out and stab their parents, like a chicken fighting for it's life.Tldr; dont sacrifice cock fighting roosters to moloch.
>>18244659Ops pic is Jesus. My pic is a bloody knife. Which would you carry to the forest for survival?
>>18244859Is Rob Reiner the chicken or the scapegoat in this example?
>>18244853Worship is of the jew devil is not how God provided salvation for the people who are of God, thanks for proving my point about your intentions.
>>18244718When the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, saw how he died, he said, “Surely this man was the Son of God!”Let all of Israel praise God and say, “Surely this was a righteous man.”
>>18244866Perhaps Rob Reiner is the inverse of Abraham. He went through with the ritual, and was given his reward. He is not the father of nations, but the victim of his own creation.
>>18244865Why not both.
>>18244889What's interesting about the Abraham and Isaac story, is that it is not God, but an angel of God, who stops Abraham from killing his son. Therfore, if you dont accept the trinity, it would appear that God told Abraham to kill his son, and some angel showed up to defy God. Where have I seen that before?
>>18244867>Calling Jesus a "jew devil"Enjoy Hell
>>18244659
>>18244915Notice how you lost and then got frustrated which caused you to lie about what I said, that wasn't righteous. sorry, but I am not on board with you turning the entire world into hell and I will not be helping or enjoying any of what your type is trying to do.
>>18244932>Lie about what I saidIf you condemn the Jews you condemn Jesus., who was literally referred to by his followers as "Rabbi" (John 1:38, Mark 9:5, John 20:16). Of course, you know that and are only pretending to be a Christian when you're clearly actually a Satanist. It's obvious now.
>>18244909Yeah, because the original story by the Elohist (E) has Abraham sacrifice Isaac. The Yahwist (J) redaction adds in the angel of YHWH stopping it and saying that his willing alone was sufficient. Abraham goes down the mountain alone.
>>18244944Nobody condemned the jews more than Jesus did. Read Matthew 23But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
>>18244949Jesus literally told the goyim that the only way to get to Paradise was through Judaism but nice try. The intrasemitic feud you're highlighting between the Essenes and Pharisees doesn't make Jesus any less Jewish - in fact it explicitly makes him MORE Jewish for being embroiled in the controversy himself.Again, John 4:22
>>18244953You know how I know you don't read the Bible? It is because you don't know the verse which comes before John 4:22. John 4:21 is as follows:Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.Jesus himself teaches that worship is not part of his salvation.So by all means, continue to worship the jew devil if you wish to be condemned by the righteous.
>>18244659Yet you never worked up the courage to ask her out. Curious.
>>18244996Jesus told me to stay away from her.
It doesn't actually, thank you for bringing it up. It's mostly supposed to represent how the killing of Osiris empowered the rise of the cult of Isis.Much the same as how the ritualistic killing of Jesus empowers the J*wish goddess Isht*r at his expense.
>>18244955>Jesus teaches that worship is not part of his salvationTry a little harder with your trolling next time, you're making it too obvious now
>>18245133Matthew 15:9 you retarded devil worshiper
>>18244875>When the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, saw how he died, he said, “Surely this man was the Son of God!”Why was the centurion so shaken by a standard execution of the day, with two other immediate examples to his left and right? Also why was the centurion a monotheist?
>>18245291(NTA)>why was the centurion a monotheist?I don't fully understand it, but from what I've read Greek grammar is different from English grammar in that it only has a definite article and no indefinite article, and that leaves a lot more ambiguity when the definite article is absent. So the phrase translated as "the Son of God," Υἱὸς Θεοῦ, (no definite articles) could also mean *a* son of *a* god.>Why was the centurion so shaken by a standard execution of the dayIn Mark's (original) version of the story, I'm not confident, but I suspect it's intended to be read as sarcastic, so the centurion is saying the truth without knowing it. In fact he's the first human in the whole story to say that Jesus was a son of a god IIRC, so it would be very ironic if it were meant sarcastically, and the gospel of Mark is decently widely recognized as using a lot of irony.But then Matthew retconned the story of Jesus' death to include a dramatic earthquake which causes the centurion to say that Jesus was a son of a god, so he removes any potential sarcasm.And Luke changes up the story a lot, removing the line. Instead he just has the centurion say "Certainly this man was innocent/righteous." after Jesus very nobly says "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit." with no crying out in Aramaic about being forsaken.
>>18245345*The Koine Greek the New Testament was written in doesn't have indefinite articles. It looks like modern Greek does have them.
>>18245345For reference,dramatic irony: a literary technique, originally used in Greek tragedy, by which the full significance of a character's words or actions are clear to the audience or reader although unknown to the character.
>>18245278Shows how little you know about the New Testament that you think the verse refutes any of my arguments so far
>>18245475declaring victory after I proved you wrong and retarded is stupid, you are probably stupid and retarded but it really doesn't matter.
>>18245486Repeatedly throughout this thread you've announced victory despite being BTFO at every turn. I get you're just trolling at this point but it doesn't make you any less of a Satanist puke
>Jesus himself teaches that worship is not part of his salvationThere's John 4:22-24,>"You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But the hour is coming and is now here when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."But I'm open to this being a Judaizing interpolation. The trouble then is figuring out how to justify a religion that hasn't had an intact unedited holy text for over a thousand years.
>>18245498By all means, worship the jew devil and be the slave of Christ killers if that is your desire, but do not say that is Christianity or you only continue to reveal you are an agent of Satan's synagogue.
>>18245499John 4:21, for fucks sake read the Bible
>>18245503Again, you reveal the depths of your own ignorance. Study the Bible, retard.>The accusation that the synagogue was a synagogue, not of Judeans but of Satan is connected with an internal dispute on how one faithful to Israelite traditions should live with the Roman economic system. The author of Revelation was arguing that there should be no compromise with Rome, and those who did compromise were not fit to be called Judean. The Synagogue, on the other hand, argued that peaceful coexistence with Rome was possible. It is suggested that the synagogue accused members of the church in Smyrna of not being Judean because they refused to pay the special Judean tax that allowed them to practice their religion unmolested. For the author of Revelation, however, to pay the tax would be an act of apostasy, as the tax paid for the rebuilding of the Capitoline temple.https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/014610799902800405
>>18245506Read the bible, worshiper of Christ killers
>>18245504As you already quoted above and as I should've read the discussion already going on about this passage, in John 4:21, Jesus says " “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem." But Jesus saying that people won't worship God on a particular mountain or in Jerusalem doesn't necessarily mean they won't worship God at all. The apparent alternative to specific locations he presents immediately after is worshipping "in spirit and truth" for "the Father seeks such as these to worship him." How do you make sense of that without saying that Jesus did advocate for something still describable as worship, even if it was independent of spatial location?
The Bible has a knack for being remarkably confusing.
>>18245538almost like it's a collection of texts without a single vision
>>18245538It's a compilation of books from jewish mythology (history, philosophy, and fables) thrown together like a slop porridge.
>>18245532worship can not save the people who are of God from death, their salvation is found only in Christ. Insisting that they ought to worship anything is advocating for sacrilege because they collectively form the body of the one true living God. Your entire position seems to be that people should worship jews and the god of jews because then when they are dead they will get some kind of reward or punishment if they don't, and that would be a retarded thing to believe.
>>18245523Couldn't misunderstand Thessalonians more if you tried
>>18245618>believe me instead of your own eyesso tired of Christ killers trying to dictate orthodoxy
>>18245611I'm the one who said I'm open to Judaizing interpolations in the Bible. I don't think people should worship Jews or the god of the Jews. I actually think there's a case for an early meta-Jewish/Greek Christianity influencing the new testament that viewed at least a good portion of the Old Testament as not the handiwork of the true God, whether they thought it was from humans or a demiurgic god or angels or a minor tribal deity as seems to be implied in Deuteronomy 32:8-9 where El Elyon divides humankind according to the number of the gods and gives Yahweh Israel. But I also think you're hard-pressed to advocate for that Christianity while keeping the current canon. But if you think you can do it...
>>18244780Except the nigga actually did resurrect.
>>18244865jesus can literally conjour food and shit so imma say jesus
>>18245655Christianity wouldn't exist without Judaism, not the other way around.
>>18244659it doesnt he was a delusional narcissist
>>18244659Si senor eet don't fix we problem ese
If you want to refute an idea, you have to first approach it on its own terms, and debunk it there. OP seems to be applying the reverse approach, simply assuming his position is right, and asking Christians to carry the argument for him. Why are the enemies of Christ so consistently reluctant to do the bare minimum of intellectual labor?
>>1824465919For I know that as you pray for me and the Spirit of Jesus Christ helps me, this will lead to my deliverance.Paul’s Life for Christ20For I fully expect and hope that I will never be ashamed, but that I will continue to be bold for Christ, as I have been in the past. And I trust that my life will bring honor to Christ, whether I live or die. 21For to me, living means living for Christ, and dying is even better. 22But if I live, I can do more fruitful work for Christ. So I really don’t know which is better. 23I’m torn between two desires: I long to go and be with Christ, which would be far better for me. 24But for your sakes, it is better that I continue to live.25Knowing this, I am convinced that I will remain alive so I can continue to help all of you grow and experience the joy of your faith. 26And when I come to you again, you will have even more reason to take pride in Christ Jesus because of what he is doing through me.Live as Citizens of Heaven27Above all, you must live as citizens of heaven, conducting yourselves in a manner worthy of the Good News about Christ. Then, whether I come and see you again or only hear about you, I will know that you are standing together with one spirit and one purpose, fighting together for the faith, which is the Good News.
>>18244659Enjoy Hell.
>>18247952>Enjoy HellHell? Hel is the Germanic underworld. Oh, you meant Ge Hinnom! Right? The place where your idol demanded the sacrifice of firstborn children?
>>18247958Enjoy the park, or nature trail, or whatever this actually is these days.
>>18247952>i get to live foreversounds good to me.
>>18248082Damn,gehennom looks like shit!! No wonder they called it hell...
