Why do Protestants often say Plato is in Hell? The Patristics often point to the Harrowing of Hell and the release of Moses, David, and even Rahab, a Pagan prostitute, and claim that when Christ preached the Gospel to the dead Plato and others like him would obviously have turned to the Good they had always sought.
>>18244790>The Patristics Pure "exegesis" (headcanon) and not Biblical canon in the slightest
>>18244790because the heresy about heaven and hell being places you go after you die has taken over as the primary orthodoxy, instead of them being places where the living are currently and can be sent.
>>18244790>The PatristicsMake things up and are wrong constantly, often about things they should know better about. They knew virtually nothing about Jesus and the Apostles taught that we don't. They almost exclusively used the exact same sources as we do.Case in point: Irenaeus who was taught by Polycarp himself didn't even know when Jesus died. He says it was during the reign of Emperor Claudius. He doubles down on this. But we know with absolute iron-clad historical fact that this is wrong, archeology itself shows us that Pilate was Tiberius' governor. Nobody else makes this error. Irenaeus simply didn't bother to do research or fact-checking.So, so, SO much of what "the patristics" say is like this. They are no different from modern preachers giving their thoughts on religion. Sometimes it's wise, sometimes it's boneheaded stupid.
>>18244828Dump your redpills pls. Wtf are you talking about?
>>18244856He is aping Nietzsche that heaven and hell are psychological states on earth.
Dante says that plato is in eternal limbo
>>18245036>psychological statesnope. jesus said heaven is found where his people gather together to do the will of God as the body of God, hell is anywhere else
>>18244790>The Patristics often point to the Harrowing of Hellwho cares? Isn't it weird to think God came down, killed himself, and went straight to hell?This story makes a mockery of God and of religion, and only is believed if you first steep yourself in the odious mire of paganish nonsense.
>>18245060>>18244837So real Christianity disappeared within a generation of the Apostles and only reappeared 1,500 years later when a second miracle occured and God sent his Luther and his Calvin to uncover the true meaning of the Scriptures that were written and compiled by the early Church apostates?And this true reading just happened to require voluntarism and nominalism to take root first, so that as soon as real Christianity returned to the world it would plummet into secularism and athiesm?
>>18244790>Why do Protestants often say Plato is in Hell?Because unrepentant pagans go to hell.>the Harrowing of Hell and the release of Moses, David, and even Rahab, a Pagan prostitute, and claim that when Christ preached the Gospel to the dead Plato and others like him would obviously have turned to the Good they had always sought.This is all Romanist fanfiction that is incompatible with the word of God. The old covenant saints never were in hell, since nothing prevented their entrance into heaven. Though they died before Christ, this did not prevent them from receiving the righteousness of Christ by faith apart from which none can be saved, otherwise, they would not now be in heaven but in hell, condemned under the law and receiving its penalty. There is no possibility of salvation after death, death itself is the sentence of the law and to die is to begin to suffer the penalty of your own sins under the wrath of God. Nor did Plato or any other heathen ever seek the true good, but suppressed it in unrighteousness and did only evil continually.
>>18245122Who said this to you, are you hearing voices?
>>18245122i am being charitable to you, so I will give a legitimate answer.it's quite clear there was never 'one' christianity even from its very beginnings. Paul himself had a radically different understanding than the communities of James and Peter, and this is in our very earliest surviving christian writings.the christology of each of the synoptics represents vastly different positions, and the clear anti-docetic current of John while adopting gnostic terminology is evidence these groups were well known from that early period.so what became orthodox or catholic christianity was a consensus formed over many hundreds of years and only really started to coalesce into one organized and uniform faction when the religion started to be used to assert roman imperial authority (a systematizing tendency and push for uniformity is a classic late-Roman political trend). Protestantism is a return to a certain trend that can be found in this period, in reading these texts and is indeed supported by readings of Augustine.But all of these old writers should be taken with a grain of salt, as they themselves have vastly different understands of the nature of God, Jesus, and the religion as a whole.Like the desert fathers and early monasticism sprung up in direct response to the elect of the Manichaeans, who were a threat due to their more scrupulous ethics and outwardly saintly nature. It didn't come out of a vacuum and certainly wasn't present in the first generation of christians (who really can't be called that because they were well within the worldview of second temple judaism)
>>18244790>Why do Protestants often say Plato is in Hell? Do they? Or is it just projection or something you're assuming
>>18245122"Real Christianity" is, as Romans 10:9 says, declaring that Jesus is your lord and believing that God resurrected him from the dead. It doesn't depend on hyperspecific doctrines and ideas.
>>18245122>And this true reading just happened to require voluntarism and nominalism to take root firstEven worse, it required the Black Death, the printing press, Northern European humanism and Turkish incursions from the East. Almost as if a Divine Being used history for his own glorious means but you're too full of yourself and short-sighted to get a grasp of it.>What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew My power in thee, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto Me, Why doth He yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why hast Thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor? What if God, willing to shew His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory — even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
>>18245198Jesus did not rise from the dead and he's never coming back.
>>18245200deadjewtard chimpout in 3...2...1...
>>18244790Christianity = everyone I don't like is in hell and only my friends get to heaven
>>18245200>>18245233
>>18245156>it's quite clear there was never 'one' christianity even from its very beginningsBy the way, this is called the Bauer hypothesis and it's a complete lie based solely on the presupposition that Jesus Christ did not rise from the dead
>>18244790Because they're spiritual kikes who will never be satisfied until Western culture and religion is stripped of everything that doesn't directly originate in ancient Judaism.
>>18245387ok, don't really care if someone else thought the same thingthanks though
>>18245397Why are you pretending like this is something you came up with on your own and not something that was handed to you by your atheist thought leaders?
>>18244790This book is copium lmao.Greek philosophers were not “proto-Monotheists.” The divine source Greek philosophers believed in was not a god or supreme being, but the mere form of good itself and it doesn’t have a will. Pagan gods in Greek philosophy although emanating from it were still separate beings from this divine source and worshipped in their own right, not merely messengers or agents of it like angels are to God in Christianity.The Neoplatonist concept of the One and the Stoic concept of the Logos are completely different from the Abrahamic concept of God, they are not “monotheist.” If anything monotheism is incompatible with these philosophies.
>>18244790>HadesDon't you mean Sheol?
>The Neoplatonist concept of the One and the Stoic concept of the Logos are completely different from the Abrahamic concept of God,t. doesn't know know neoplatonism was a major underlying thread of christian ontology until the reformation era
>>18245384how the average e-christian looks like just thinner and with a fedora
>>18245391>stripped of everything that doesn't directly originate in ancient Judaism.Maybe that's the logical conclusion of the bible and christianity? Maybe it is because christianity is jewish?
>>18245060>god is infinitely good>god wouldn't invade hell to liberate the souls trapped thereinpick one
>>18246451This logic wouldn't predict that any deficiency in the world would exist at all. God is actually very limited in what direct actions he can take: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YKUhD7--LKw
>>18246253Except it doesn’t work well with the Christian framework which is why Christian theology is contradictory schizophrenia. Yahweh is not the Monad (“the One”) and cannot be the Monad as the Monad is not a god, but the mere form of good itself and it doesn’t have a will. Neoplatonism only works properly within a pagan framework and is ultimately a pagan philosophy. Its pioneers were literally pagans who despised Christianity like Plotinus and Porphyry of Tyre (Porphyry in particular wrote a work refuting Christianity titled “Against the Christians”).Christians appropriating Neoplatonism is no different from Nazis appropriating Nietzsche while ignoring the fact that Nietzsche despised core Nazi ideals like authoritarianism and nationalism, Nietzsche even went as far as to deny he was German and insisted he was actually descended from a Polish aristocrat which is stupid but still kind of funny.
