Is there actually a case for any other Emperor other than Augustus as the greatest in Romes history other than perhaps Julius Caesar? If you think there is I'd love to hear it. I actually think based on everything I've read over the years that he had possibly the most impressive life of any human in history overall, though I think there are more arguments to the contrary to be made in that discussion.
>>18245382>Is there actually a case for any other Emperor other than Augustus as the greatest in Romes history other than perhaps Julius Caesar?Constantine.
>>18245385Why?
>>18245386He kickstarted Christianity's overtaking of the Roman Empire and vanquishing paganism.
>>18245389Yep, I knew it. Didn't want to be presumptuous but I knew this would be the response. Yawn.
>>18245386>BTFO franks and alemanni and fed their kings to wild animals in the colosseum >consolidated power from the tetrarchy that would become the defacto new form of imperial power for the rest of rome's existence>modified the Jupiter/Hercules imperial religion instated by diocletian by instituting Christianity in the same vein, again stabilizing imperial power in new and lasting forms>nevertheless was a based aryan gang chadsimilar to Augustus he was a great commander yet intuitive innovator whose creations would shape roman society and statecraft for centuries
>>18245389Did he kickstart it? By the time of Constantine Christianity was already overtaking Rome. Felt like he was just the first emperor to give up on saving the Roman cults/faith. Either the dream was true and he was divinely inspired or the result of him putting his finger in the wind. Either way it just the state recognizing what was already true on the ground.
>>18245399>Did he kickstart it?No you're, right, that was Jesus.
>>18245399>Either the dream was true and he was divinely inspired or the result of him putting his finger in the windit's clear he considered sol invictus his patron god, which closely overlapped with christianity at the time because jesus was given attributes of the solar deity.it's clear the milvian bridge story, if it did happen, was not as impactful on Constantine at the time because his triumphal arc for ending the civil war is framed around the unconquered sun without any Christian imagery or panegyrics.whether that changed later in his life, we can only speculate. He clearly saw the benefits of throwing his support behind the Christians (and there were many in his power base in the east during the war against Maxentius).
>>18245392I live in the town that stands where he originates from so I'm partial to him as well. I think what edges Augustus out for me is that he accomplished arguably as much as Constantine before he even reached 30 while the latter ascended in his mid 30s with much more experience. The utter humiliation of Licinious is compelling as well though.
>>18245407I guess my question would be was he correct in creating an orthodoxy at The Council of Nicaea. Should they have gone with the Arians or Gnostics instead?
>>18245390>Yawn.Being one of the most influential persons of all time, how boring! The medievals thought of Constantine and Theodosius as the ideal ruler just as much as Caesar and Augustus.
>>18245412It was an indictment of your post not of Constantine. >he did le christianity therefore he the best xD
>>18245412To be fair the Medievals were probably also pushing him due to his Christianity as well. Better to make the Christian Emperor the ideal ruler than pagan Augustus.,
>>18245411I'm no expert, but to me adhering to what would become Nicene Christianity is an obvious choice for him when you look in terms of political, imperial power.Constantine in speaking to bishops styled himself as a bishop - he looked after the civil affairs of God's kingdom on Earth and acts as a custodian of Christ. In establishing Jesus's coequality with God the Father, he is elevating the status and power of the emperor (as Jesus's representative) in a subtle way that Arianism doesn't.Gnosticism is a loose collection of ideas, but in my understanding is more focused on the internal salvation of the mind than governance of society at large. The groups of gnosticism that were still around in Constantine's day wouldn't have the latent structure that would compliment statecraft like the proto-orthodox church communities
Diocletian
>>18245411>he correct in creating an orthodoxyterminal dunning krueger Constantine didn't decide anything at Nicaea, neither voted nor issued any edictthe Arians were voted down by broad consensus, of which the orthodoxy already existed.Because he was never ordained.>>18245432Constantine in no way styled himself as a bishop.>the emperor as Jesus' representativepure delusionyou are just making things up now
>>18245382Tiberius. He was content with what he had. No derranged bloody wars for glory. He ran a tight and peaceful ship.
>>18245483>Constantine in no way styled himself as a bishop."Hence it was not without reason that once, on the occasion of his entertaining a company of bishops, he let fall the expression, "that he himself too was a bishop," addressing them in my hearing in the following words: "You are bishops whose jurisdiction is within the Church: I also am a bishop, ordained by God to overlook whatever is external to the Church." And truly his measures corresponded with his words: for he watched over his subjects with an episcopal care, and exhorted them as far as in him lay to follow a godly life."- Eusebiuswho is making stuff up now? Apologize.
>>18245485Wasn't he basically the Roman Epstein? He had his own pedo island and all.
>>18245519>ordained by God to overlook whatever is external to the ChurchHe wasn't claiming to have authority over the church, which bishops have. He was comparing his authority over the secular sphere to their authority over the sacred sphere. He didn't mean he was literally a bishop or had religious authority. Again, because he never voted or made any edicts at the council.God's kingdom on earth, as you called it, is the church. Not the state. Jesus makes that clear when he says render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's.
>>18245536>He didn't mean he was literally a bishop or had religious authoritynor did I say that, hence why I said 'he styled himself as a bishop when speaking to bishops'. which is exactly what Eusebius witnessed.I did not say he was a literal bishop.I'll take your comment as an apology though.
>>18245539Constantine did not establish the coequality of Jesus and the Father.You are misrepresenting basically everything about Nicaea and church governance.
>>18245540I'm using shorthand, autist. Because church governance is not the topic of the discussion.
>>18245540>the coequality of Jesus and the FatherOne of the stranger Catholic doctrines. It's like they saw the error of Arianism but slammed too far in the other direction
>>18245549In fact, not even the bishops in attendance established this. Instead, they officially *recognized* it as true and made it's explicit confession binding on all apostolic Christians universally.Constantine didn't really have a horse in the race. If anything he was more sympathetic to the Arians, as his later choice in minister for baptism demonstrates.He certainly didn't have any religious authority.His request that the council be convened was because of his duty as secular ruler to keep the peace and stability of the realm, which this Christian theological disagreement was eroding. Last thing he wanted was another civil war caused by this religion.He didn't mandate one position or the other to the bishops, but asked them to authoritatively determine which side was in error conclusively so the dispute could be brought to a close.Orthodoxy didn't begin with Nicaea, as you have claimed. It was vindicated there, it was formalized.In truth it had existed the whole time, but some had simply fallen into error or malignantly used the separation it caused to further their personal positions by castigating others.
>>18245382Yeah
>>18245485>>18245522Silverfish
>>18245565oh great a shizho
>>18245561God is love.The three persons of the Godhead are homousia, meaning they are of the same essence.Love proceeds from the Father to the Son, and is then processionally reciprocated through mutual indwelling. The Father loves the Son, and the Son loves the Father. This love is in itself a third person, the Holy Spirit. Thus, love is spirated.Love itself is beloved.Meaning the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, since the procession is eternal and hence simultaneously generated.
>>18245413It's literally the only thing that matters.
>>18245413>your postNope, not me, I like him because he won a civil war and build big ass cities. No matter which side you are on in the ongoing christian vs whatever shit fling fest. Constantine was the definition of a WANGHAF (White Ass Nigga Going Hard As Fuck)
>>18245592
>>18245485Yeah honestly tiberius probably had the hardest job of continuing after Augustus and while he didn't do a perfect job he did a good one.
>>18245592Crazy how good my sixth sense is cause I knew you'd be a Fuentes dicksucker
>>18245578Jesus is the door.A door is made of wood. Wood is the medium, not the source.It is fashioned, not fashioning. It opens the way, but it is not the way’s origin.Wood grows from a root.The root is unseen, buried in mystery.The trunk, visible, arises from the root. It reveals the root but is not itself the root.The Spirit is the ruach, the wind blowing through the door whether open or shut, the movement that passes through but is not the door nor the root.The Son is the Door fashioned of the same substance as the Root, the Father.The Spirit is the Wind that passes through, not generated by the Door, but only passing through it.For no wind begins with wood, though it may move through it.Thus, the Spirit proceeds from the Father, through the Son not from the Son Himself.The Root gives life to the whole tree; the Door, though essential, is not the source.The Breath is exhaled from the Root, not from the Door.---^ This is what you sound like. Catholic stream of consciousness free-association that is borderline meaningless.
>>18245612Jesus is not made of wood.He's born of flesh and blood, and eternally begotten.His use of an allegory involving an inanimate object does not mean that he is an inanimate object.A door is not just a thing that opens and closes, it's the threshold and way through.>fashionedbegotten, not madeconsubstantial with the Fatherthrough him, all things were made>not generated but passing throughIn fact, the son does love the father. And the love between Father and Son, the Holy Spirit, is eternally generated or to be more specific "spirated".>through the sonthat is to say, from the sonthe love between Father and Son is mutually reciprocated >Spirit is wind>Father is root, Son is fashioned from the treeSo you say that the Trinity is not of the same essence or fundamental substance, since wind and wood are separate.Whereas there is but one love that is God.>this is what you sound likeNo, it doesn't. You don't sound like anything but error.
>>18245610no I just appropriate phrases from whatever retards on the Internet I see fit
>>18245386They both reformed the government to outlast them. Compared to Justinian, who didn't.
>>18245382Marcus Aurelius.Augustus trampled on Caesar's legacy by destroying the public assembly as an institution, forced first Agrippa and then Tiberius to divorce, was probably the worst father Rome ever produced, was a murderous backstabber and sleaze and a coward in battle.Marcus Aurelius was a genuinely good human being who led his empire with a great deal of ability.Augustus is comparable to Alexander VI. Brilliant politician, awful human being.Though Alexander VI was a far better father and nowhere near as amoral as Augustus.
Aurelian counts.Augustus was handed an empire on a silver platter, Aurelian moved mountains to keep it alive for another century.
I wouldn’t put him down as great, but I like Domitian
>>18245671>Augustus was handed an empire on a silver platterYou must be trolling.
>>18245382The 5 good emperors have a laundry list of achievements.
>>18245629You're completely missing my point. You gave absolutely no evidence or argumentation for a single conclusion in your post. You just did stream of consciousness free association. It doesn't even amount to the level of an argument. Can you give actual specific evidence that your stream of consciousness conclusion from "God is love" is more valid than mine from "I am the door"?Let's drill into it. You say "the love between Father and Son" is the Holy Spirit. What is the actual evidence for this conclusion?
>>18245382Augustus was lucky, not skilled.
>>18245382Augustus was pretty mid. His greatest accomplishment was living long. Marc Anthony would have been a far better emperor.
>>18245382>Is there actually a case for any other Emperor other than Augustus as the greatest in Romes history other than perhaps Julius Caesar?the restorer of the world is the only one i'm aware of
>>18245382>Is there actually a case for any other Emperor other than Augustus as the greatest in Romes history other than perhaps Julius Caesar?DomitianHe's the only emperor to fix the problem with inflation, which was BY FAR the biggest problem in the empire. His administration was also quite good.
