If Europeans want an honest accounting of Iberian history, they have to stop pretending that Catholic Spain rose from some self-generated miracle. Al-Andalus was a civilization, not a footnote: cities with paved streets and public lighting when much of Europe was mud and candles; libraries that dwarfed anything north of the Pyrenees; medicine, astronomy, mathematics, and philosophy that were studied, systematized, and transmitted while the rest of Christendom was still suspicious of learning itself. Córdoba, Toledo, and Seville were not backwaters—they were engines of culture that connected Iberia to the wider Mediterranean and Islamic world. You don’t get to erase centuries of Muslim governance and then claim Spain’s later “greatness” as purely Catholic ingenuity.And let’s be clear: much of what Catholic Spain later paraded as its own achievement was built directly on Muslim foundations. The translation schools, agricultural techniques, architectural forms, urban planning, even the intellectual habits that made the so-called Spanish Golden Age possible—all of them trace back to Al-Andalus. The Reconquista didn’t replace a vacuum; it inherited a functioning, sophisticated society and then spent generations hollowing it out while still living off its remains. So when modern Europeans or Americans lecture about “civilizational superiority,” forgive me if I’m unimpressed. The record shows who built Iberia’s brilliance first—and who has been borrowing from it ever since. If that makes you uncomfortable, good. History isn’t here to soothe your myths.
>>18250129Afghanistan tier head chopping child rapists.
>>18250129>A Eurosceptic and critical view of history - expecting great criticism..Did you just come out of a 19th century time machine?Oh boy, Scholomo, wait until Pope Gregory Hears about this!
This is the reason I started to care about history, I wanted to understand what the conquistadors were thinking with their approach to the new world and Al-Andalus explains everything about the world between the fall of rome until the age of exploration.
everything good about Al-Andalus was made by racial Iberians
>>18250129>imperialism is good actually, when non huwhites do it. oh, and we do care about science and knowledge now.
>>18250129The Reconquista was 750 years. Al-Andalusia, as per your map, didnt last a century. It was essentially a blip in management structure.
>>18250129Yet iberians moved to reconquered land to escape dhimmitude
>>18250129Everything you wrote is a fantasy. Stop peddling Muslim propaganda.
>>18250144It's just reddit tier mainstream revisionist history.They apply the (((critical standards))) only to European Christian Civilization that is not completely devoid of disciipline, like modern day Episcopalians
>>18250144I mean, any type of Christian European Civilization with any sort of discipline is totally not ok, like bad and problematic.
>>18250134Reconquista method (adelantamientos) were used mostly in the southern cone, not much anywhere
>>18250129>>18250133>>18250134Spare me the romanticized lecture. Al-Andalus didn’t descend from heaven as some flawless beacon while “Europe wallowed in mud.” Christian Iberia existed before, during, and after Muslim rule, preserving Roman law, Latin learning, and Christian institutions under constant pressure. The Reconquista wasn’t parasites inheriting “Muslim greatness”; it was the recovery of land through centuries of resilience, sacrifice, and state-building. The cathedrals, universities, legal systems, and monarchies of Christian Spain were not copies of Córdoba—they were rooted in a distinct Greco-Roman and Christian tradition that long predated Islam.And stop pretending Al-Andalus was some tolerant utopia. It had civil wars, ethnic hierarchies, persecution, and intellectual decline long before 1492. Many so-called “Muslim achievements” came from Greeks, Persians, Jews, and Christians working under Islamic rule—not because of it. Catholic Spain didn’t “hollow out” Iberia; it unified it, defended it, and launched it onto the world stage, from Salamanca to the New World. Every notable Iberian in history, from Trajan to El Cid to Alberto Barbosa to Salvador Dali- was fundamentally Western without a trace of Muslim "contribution". You can sneer at the Reconquista all you want, but history doesn’t support your grievance fantasy—it records a civilization reclaimed, not stolen.
>>18250170You misunderstand, I think Al Andalus was a massive mistake that lead to terrible things like the return of slavery and erasure of culture in the new world on a scale that was abnormal.
All that was good about muslim iberia was a fire heap by the time the almohads got into power regardless your drivel is nothing more than 19th century european colonialism justification with a islamic paint,your entire ideology is based on resentment due to the fact that europe surpassed the middle east in every way possible
>>18250129Muslim seething over ancient glories that deep down he knows his decrepit “ummah” will never see again OrWestern leftist rendered a functionally braindead parrot by decades of white guilt and “de-colonialist” indoctrinationCall it
>>18250129The contribution of Muslims (at least, until the Mongols wiped all this away) was to preserve and join the Byzantine and Sassanid empires under one language and one identity. That’s really it! You can talk all you want about “Muslim greatness” and “Muslim contributions to science”—the only thing they did differently than the Romans and the Persians was to provide a common market and tongue linking the two powerhouses. That’s literally it. Congrats for patting yourself on the back. “The Arabs returned to the Romans what the Romans built—genius!”
>>18250129>while the rest of Christendom was still suspicious of learning itselfMost of the learning was from Christian monks translating Greek philosophy into Syriac then Arabic. The Muslims learned it from the literate Christians.
>>18250129>—If you can't even be bothered to write your own propaganda paki why should we bother to read it?
I'm Spanish and I hate arabs and pisslam and even then I think Al Andalus was vastly superior to the utter shithole that was the Visigoth kingdom. It gave the old roman Baetica it's old glory and prosperity at least for a while until the subhumans from north africa came with the Almohad and Almoravids.Same reason why I can't wait for Germany to become a caliphate, Germanics are just overall mediocre and incompetent and everyone subsaharans aside does a better job at running stuff than them.
>>18250129>Al-Andalus was a civilization
>>18250129> another long Muslim-shilling post> look inside> em dashes (—) again
>>18250152No kidding. I already saw retards on reddit denying the Aztec human sacrifice and portraying it as Spanish propaganda.It's literally every time framed as "modern historians say" and when they are asked about said historians, you get downvoted to oblivion and given some 1970s shit from people who weren't even academics. Meanwhile archaeology established that not only human sacrifice was 100% real, it was done on scale far exceeding what the Spanish recorder. Because the Spanish witnessed the tail end of the Aztecs, not empire at its prime.
>>18250129You need to read this >>18248792
>Al-Andalus>civilizationpick one
>>18250129I read in some book that the loot contracts used by the Conquistadors were Sharia law-based.
>>18250682That's not true. Conquistadors were based and in many times directly descended from hidalgos who led the middle-late phase of the Reconquista, between the battle of Las Navas the Tolosa which broke the Muslim power in Iberia and the Grenadian War which was essentially an epilogue. Independent warbands led by entrepreneurial nobles, usually younger sons with no inheritance. They opportunistically seized some towns, dug in against any counterattack and messaged the crown offering the king that they will become their vassal if he recognizes the conquest as their fiefdom.
>>18250598>archeology established it exceeded what the Spanish recordedQuite the opposite. It showed it was heavily exaggerated by the Spanish, but nonetheless still existed. The temples they had physically could not and did not hold the amount of human remains the Spanish claimed they did. >>18250682What book/author?
>>18250129>ai slopwe all have access to chatgpt, anonnext time post the prompt. believe in yourself. you can do it
>>18250139"racial iberians" by that time were all moor rapebabies like all modern iberians
>>18250598There's absolutely some dumb/ignorant people who think sacrifices were all Spanish propaganda, but the majority of people by a wide margin have a mental image of Mesoamerican civilization that plays up sacrifices and downplays their cultural sophistication, not the oppositeYourself included. As >>18250864 says, archeological excavations show that sacrificed occurred at much smaller scales then a lot of Spanish and even Indigenous sources claimed. If you look into the Huey Tzompantli excavations, the rack seems to have only held around 16,000-24,000 skulls, which seems like a lot, except Duran claimed it held 80,000 and Andres de Tapia claimed it held 136,000But a lot of outlets ran sensationalist, dumb headlines claiming the excavations "confirmed Spanish accounts" when they really did the opposite, which is what I assume your post is going off of.
>>18250139trvthnvke
>>18250129italy was very good shape toothat was where the renaissance beganalso gothic started in france
>>18250129you made the mistake of thinking those were europeansthey're rootless mongrel triracial spics and brazilians larping as iberians/meds/tradcaths.
>>18250201>>18250591>>18250592>>18250636>>18250598you're not european sanchez
>>18251184this argument is similar to those denying the extent of witch trials on the basis that we only have the protocols for about 3000 of them, on the implicit assumption that all protocols survived to the present day. of course if this assumption was made explicit, then there'd be no end of ridicule, but since it is implicit, retards don't notice. the same applies to the holocaust btw., if we only take into account the remains of victims then we fall rather short of the sacred number of six million.
>>18250130That's what Spaniards did too, everyone did, hell Europeans did that to each other
>>18250129>AI Slop
>>18252290Not at all similar. In this case we are using one particular archeological site of whose layout we know of as an example of the Spanish giving a number that was basically impossible to have occurred. All relevant archeology gives the same conclusion, and we can easily see that the Spanish have incentives to exaggerate accounts of brutality by the natives. If we are to use Occam's razor, we make less assumptions in acknowledging exaggeration by Spanish accounts as opposed to just blindly trusting the Spanish. It is actually similar to the high death counts attributed to Genghis Khan, something archeology contradicts and historians on the subject have agreed were way overblown.We also have sufficient reason to distrust overblown numbers of witch trials. You are only showing that you don't know those reasons. If an academic seriously makes the argument that the real number of deaths are only around the number of those that exist on surviving records he would be humiliated and kicked out of the room. Nobody makes that argument seriously.>same applies to the holocaustI'm not too familiar with the historiography of that, but I am interested in historians reviewing the methods that were used to reach that number of six million actually.
>>18252290Except Duran and Andres de Tapia were saying that the Huey Tzompantli as an individual, specific structure held 80,000 and 136,000 skulls respectively, and we've excavated that exact structure and it didn't hold even close to that many skulls.You could say that just because the Huey Tzompantli is a lot smaller then what the Spanish claimed, that it doesn't mean that their other claims about the numbers of sacrifices the Mexica did are wrong, except that the Huey Tzompantli is by far the largest collection of sacrificial remains ever found and likely that will ever be found because by all accounts, it was the largest skull rack in the region's largest city, and one of only a few properly Mexica cities/sites that existed to begin with.Pretty much all other discoveries of sacrificial remains other then it are small deposits of single people, to a few people, or rarely a few dozen. If we discard the Huey Tzompantli then that would suggest that there were even LESS sacrifices, not more. Also, most of the popular numbers thrown around for "Aztec sacrifices" aren't even what they seem. The 250,000 per year figure ascribed to Borah and Cook for example was really the result of Harner (whose "Mesoamerican cannibalism was made to make up for a protein deficiency" theory was shredded to bits for being so nonsensical) scaling up their earlier, smaller figure of 15,000 based on revised population estimates even though there's no inherent reason to think sacrifice numbers would scale up proportionally with higher population numbers. The total also was NOT for Mexica or even more broadly "Aztec" sacrifices, but sacrifices across all of Mesoamerica sans the Maya regions. The 20,000 a year figure from Zumarraga (the Grand Inquisitor in Mexico, who clearly had a bias here) is for a similarly wide area, and actually people reposting it without knowing the methodology are actually downplaying it because it was for 20,000 CHILD sacrifices, which is silly.
>>18253422>>18252290Also, ironically and in the interest of intellectual honesty, I'll add that 20,000 - 250,000 people being sacrificed a year across all of non-Maya portions of Mesoamerica isn't even an insane total: The Aztec Empire had ~500 states inside of it, and there were another few hundred states in Mesoamerica not within the empire. States were often composed of a major city and a few to a few dozen smaller towns/villages, so if you assume the non-Maya states totaled 700, and each state did 100 sacrifices a year, that's 70,000 sacrifices.Obviously there's a lot of guesswork there, but my point is that the range given in popular claims about sacrifice numbers aren't even really crazy, it's just A: the methodology used to get there is badB: the numbers are only reasonable if you apply them to the wider area they were actually intended for, not erronously thinking it means the Mexica in particular, and only if you disregard the fact the 20k figure was meant for child sacrifices specificallyC: That doesn't change the fact that the numbers given for the Huey Tzompantli by the Spanish are proven to be exaggerated
>>18250582>I hate arabs and pisslam and even then I think Al Andalus was vastly superior to the utter shithole that was the Visigoth kingdomYou drop your merchant hat
>>18250129>Al-Andalus was a civilizationThen why was it Muslim?
>>18252486What? No.
>>18253667How else do you describe it?There was no age of consent you can look up marraige records and it's not uncommon to see girls being married at the age of 8, the UK executed petty thieves for simply being pickpockets well into the 19th century.
