Do the Irish not realise they would have just been conquered by another European empire if the English didn’t conquer them?Especially since they couldn’t manage to unify themselves somehow. Very weak
As if, France and Spain would never hurt their Catholic brothers and sisters
I’ve actually thought about this in the past, what if England didn’t conquer Ireland. Busy doing other shit, or internal politics didn’t align, whatever.Went down an interesting rabbit holeHere’s the gist of what I think I remember writing down1530s–1600: Fragmented Gaelic Ireland>Henry VIII never imposes English rule in Ireland.>Ireland remains internally politically fragmented:>O’Neills in Ulster>O’Donnells in Donegal>MacCarthys and others in Munster>Anglo-Irish lords hold Dublin Pale>Conflict between lords continues internally.>English crown attempts diplomatic influence but lacks military means to enforce control without a committed warLate 1500s: Spanish Intervention>Spain, hostile to Protestant England under Elizabeth I, sees Ireland as a strategic base.>Spain provides:>Arms and troops to Catholic Irish lords>Advisors and small garrisons in strategic ports (e.g., Kinsale, Waterford)>Irish-Spanish alliance checks England without full conquest.>outcome: parts of Ireland function as a Spanish client state, especially Munster and Ulster.>Northern lords may retain greater autonomy, while southern regions lean toward Spain.1600s: Continued Rivalry and Fragmentation>Without British conquest, England may attempt limited raids or coercive diplomacy, but not full control.>France could also intermittently support Irish lords to weaken Spain’s position, creating a “proxy war” situation.>Internal Irish conflicts continue between Gaelic lords, preventing centralized national unity.>Irish population remains largely rural and decentralized; literacy and infrastructure advance slowly, largely influenced by Spain in the south and the pockets of Anglos in the Pale
>>182534761700s: Potential Outcomes>Scenario A: Spain weakens after War of Spanish Succession; England may finally assert influence using naval and military power, annexing most if not all of Ireland, not requiring boots on the ground for much of it even >Scenario B: Spain retains influence in southern Ireland; Ulster lords consolidate into a semi-independent Northern Confederacy.>Scenario C: France intervenes in periods of Anglo-Spanish rivalry; Ireland becomes a buffer state between England and continental powers.1800s–1900s: Modern Implications>Ireland may resemble a Spanish or French protectorate, similar to how Belgium was influenced by European powers after independence from the Netherlands.>Industrialization and infrastructure development largely depends on which empire dominates:>Spanish-aligned Ireland: slower industrialization, Catholic church stronger politically>French-aligned Ireland: perhaps more liberal administration, stronger secular institutions>Likely scenario: no fully unified, independent Irish state emerges until 20th century nationalist movements, possibly delayed or shaped differently depending on which empire influenced it.Notes:>irelands population would NEVER have come close to its height of about 8.2 million in 1841 without being part of the UK. They simply wouldn’t have had enough food or trading power to sustain enough people for as long as they did (there’s a good reason they never boomed in population and never reached that figure to this day, they were overpopulated)>no heavily industrialised Northern Ireland since that was a British funded and planned initiative. >most likely would see some ethnic based unification (and independence) movements similar to the Greeks, Italians, Germans etc. decent chance the British would have outright gifted the Pale and Dublin to try and bring a new unified Ireland permanently into its sphere of influence (presumably with some deal carveouts regarding trade)
>You missed the Frankish Ireland timelineFucking ROBBED
>>18253463>if I don't steal it, somebody else gonna steal it
>>18253463It's simply not possible imo. The continental rivals of the English historically always tried to use Ireland and Scotland as launching points for invasions. England couldn't exist for most of history without conquering their neighbors.
>if i don't steal it someone else will
Ire(Great anger; wrath; keen resentment)landdeep
>>18253489>if you don’t defend your vulnerable area then your enemies will use it to launch attacks… yes? This was already happening with Scotland allying with France until England United with them
>>18253463Even if rhe English never conquered Ireland, they would always deny a continental rival from conquering it. Ireland was always to be in the sphere of England tho, yes.
