One of the biggest debates I see in this board and elsewhere is about who's "white" and who isn't. At some point, white people used to strictly mean someone of Anglo/Dutch/West Germanic Protestant descent (hence Uncle Ben's "Swedes are swarthy). Then it included everyone of north European (Gaels, French, and Poles alike), then it included Jews and Southern Europeans (the latter of which is still being debated to this day), then it went as far as to even include Somalis and Mestizos. Is this whiteness expansion a justification for Northerners to "we wuz" the ancient Greeks and Egyptians?One problem that arises is what does it mean, appearance-wise, that makes someone white? Pale skin? Blonde hair? Blue eyes? What about all the pale-skinned, dark-haired, dark-eyed people? Or green-eyed people with darker skin? Appearances aren't just location-based. If white=European, there's a lot of overlap with Central Asians, Middle Easterners, and North Africans. You'll find a good amount of native swarthy people in Scotland (Sean Connery), and you'll also find brighter phenotypes across Afghanistan and Pakistan. Iberians in particular (the most seethed over) have such varying phenotypes; some look swarthy, others look bright, and many in-between. Why aren't East Asians white despite their bright skin and overlap with Nords and Slavs? Why are Hispanics and Latinos generally excluded and considered their own race despite their varying ancestries? And what about all those albinos from sub-Saharan Africa? Why is "white-passing" a thing from "white?"But honestly, what's so bad about being "non-white?" Is it so important a rank to be considered "white?" Is whiteness more about culture than appearances?
>>18254021>Why aren't East Asians white despite their bright skin and overlap with Nords and Slavs?East Asians are not as light as Northern Europeans, they are on par with West Asians.
>>18254021>At some point, white people used to strictly mean someone of Anglo/Dutch/West Germanic Protestant descent (hence Uncle Ben's "Swedes are swarthy).Ben was probably the only known politician/intellectual who believed this, if he even meant it seriously. The idea of whiteness was introduced by Iberians and later also used by the French etc.
>>18254021It’s a colonial identity to basically means “everyone who isn’t a negro” because negros are very different from everyone else. Indians are also excluded for obvious reasons.
>>18254021White is just shorthand for 'european' Benjamin franklin was a autistic retard who is only venerated as an intellectual by the american education system. In general america is retarded because they decided to have to legal definition of 'white' so they didn't have to share the same waterfountain as Black people. Everywhere else on the planet, white just means european. >>18254025Some northern asians are very pale, but they do tan up pretty quick. Yakuts always seem quite pale.
>>18254021WHG+EHG+EEF+WSH ancestry, if the combination of the four is above, idk, 95% you're white
>>18254156I was gonna say that they are the same pigmentation as Azerbaijanis or Armenians, who you no doubt consider "brown", but actually they are even darker, Levantine tier.
>>18254021MUH WHITEMUH BLACKMUH BROWNIt’s Baby Boomer ideology and it can’t die soon enoughAtlantic Slave Trade mentality needs to go away for good
Btw this discourse is as inane as the one about whether Die Hard is a "Christmas movie". Which ethnicities are white or not depends on vibes, personal taste and political circumstances. What do you expect here, some absolute and infallible answer?
>>18254021It means European in the sense of the people who have been in Europe since prehistory. So people as gypsies, moriscos, Jews, albanians and other non European in origins population who entered during Middle-Ages and Modernity, are not white.Latineoxs and burgers are obsessed with the term because their identities have been modelled by the Castilian caste system and the Apartheid.Arabs/Moors/Turks/Poopoojets wanna be included in the category of white despite they were not involved in the Atlantic slave trade, they are not Europeans and they are the very reason of why the term came to be in first place.It does not matter how blonde grey eyed you are, if you are from Turkey or Afghanistan, for a Castilian conquistador, a Portuguese slaver or a British puritan you would still have been a non white.
>>18254200No one considers the Gagauz or the Maltese to be of non-European origin despite speaking non-European languages.
>>18254216Aren't maltese like 30% nafris?
>>18254221I have never seen a person seriously argue that the Maltese are any less European than any other Southern European group.
>>18254216https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limpieza_de_sangreThe scientific racism later developed in British and French colonies, and eventually reflected in Nazi racial laws, had precedents in the Spanish laws of blood purity (limpieza de sangre). These rules defined purity as belonging exclusively to Old Christians, meaning people whose ancestors had never converted to Islam or Judaism.In classical Castilian thought, Semitic peoples were viewed as a cursed race because of the apostasy associated with Islamic expansion, Jews as murderers of God, while Africans were linked to the biblical Curse of Ham. These curses were believed to be transmitted through blood. As a result, converts and descendants of converts—especially those whose ancestors had abandoned Christianity and later returned—were relegated to the lowest social positions, comparable to social outcasts. In this context, the Agotes of Spain and France are often mentioned; some historians associate them with former Muslims or Cathars who reconverted and were socially segregated to avoid “tainting” the blood of Old Christians.Under this logic, groups such as the Maltese or the Copts were considered “pure,” since they were believed never to have apostatized from Christianity, regardless of language or ethnic origin. Similarly, Native Americans occupied an intermediate status: although recently converted, they were not associated with Islamic heresy nor with the Curse of Ham. In colonial documents, some Indigenous people even claimed the nobility of their blood in legal disputes.By contrast, people from Islamic regions such as Arabia, Turkey, or the Maghreb were considered permanently “impure,” even if they converted back to Christianity, since ancestral apostasy was seen as an irreversible stain.Castilians distinguished two main inherited curses, one linked to the Curse of Ham and another tied to religious apostasy, both understood as transmitted through blood.
>>18254258Basically thirdies, specially MENAs never understood that being white is not solely about pigmentation.The Castilians took for granted that the purity of the French, English, and others came from the fact that they were never corrupted by Muslim/Gnostic sects and that, because of their Europeaness, they were never affected by the curse of Ham (as if the berbers, pajeets, and blacks were). The Cagots, being indistinguishable from other Spaniards and French, were outcast dalits because they came from a lineage of apostates.
>>18254258>>18254272The main difference between British/French/German scientific racism with Spanish Race Purity Laws comes from the fact that they stripped away the whole part of Apostasy given they themselves were apostates via Martin Luther.They got ride of that part related with the apostasy being something which curse an entire bloodline and centered around the Curse of Ham part, on the skin color, in the context of slavery.In that sense, Nazis were closer to the original Laws of Castile since they also extended the impurity to Semites, Gypsies, etc.
>>18254258>>18254272>>18254283No one seriously considers the Bosnians to be non-European either, no Northern European that is.
>>18254285Bosnians are considered Europeans because the standards of whiteness pushed by Germanics stripped away all the religious part.If the Habsbourgs had won the 30 Years War large part of people living in Germany, France, England and Scandinavia would have been turned into Cagots and the Catholic minnorities (Irish, Austrians, Belgians, etc.) turned into new elites of Old Christians ruling over masses of New Christians. Some letters of Quevedo and other Castilian courtiers to Philip IV and his ministers, reveal the view of the Protestant as a corrupt European. And this is only for Germanic peoples who converted to a Christian heresy; the Bosnians would have ended up like the Moriscos, deported to Turkey.
>>18254021you will never be med sanchez
>>18254292It is a good thing the Germanic Catholics that being of Martin Luthers reproachment to the ways of the Knights of the Teutonic the true heroes of God in Heaven won victory in Europe and the Earth. The Medieval Crusaders saw only the racial order as they considered the Turk or Tartar to be eternally evil, but to be Marshal of the Bedouin prestigious.
>>18254335It should be noted that the baptism of the Cumans was not sanctioned by the Church and led to mass rioting and revolt against the Hungarian King.
Only nonwhites and people at the top of the white hierarchy think whiteness is an award. I'm in the white category yet look visibly admixed. Until being white actually changes how I look I'm not going to be thankful for it.
>>18254228Genetically they are. Culturally they aren't. They have admixture like Iran N.
>>18254025Whites have Fitzpatrick class I or II skin. Mediterraneans have class III skin, and East Asians have an intermediate between class III and IV where they always tan and turn dark but their skin can be lighter if they don't see sunlight.
>>18254805>I'm in the white category yet look visibly admixed.found the south american/spaniard/portageez/italian
>>18254021To be White, you have to be over 95% European and Romanized.
>>18254021>What does it mean to be "white?"well that has always been very simple
>>18254335>The Medieval Crusaders saw only the racial order as they considered the Turk or Tartar to be eternally eviMaybe they should have tried actually taking out the Turks then, not just reclaim some of their lands for a few years then loot Byzantine territories on their way out.
>>18254021You know what white means, but I'll spell it out for you. Ethnically, A person from the traditionally recognized and agreed upon ethnic groups of Europe, with various disputes about edge cases and regions with admixtures like Iberia Russia or the Balkans. Nobody disagrees on a certain core though, like Germany, Northern France and the British Isles.
>>18254805Honestly the best bait I've seen today
>>18255048people do disagree with certain people who live in germany, northern france, or britain
>>18255048
>>18255053Not bait. I genuinely feel this way. Whiteness is a ripoff unless you look 100% European. >>18255147This guy looks 100% Euro just like Antonio Banderas does.
>>18255032>of god means whiteNon sequitur
Whiteness is a scale. The further north west you go the less admixture there is. The further south east you go the more admixture there is.Nordics have some asiatic admixture southerners have arab admixture, but in general these levels are mostly negligibile until you hit Turkey, then there's even weirder cases where places like bumfuck Tajikistan suddenly has more European admixture than all the nations surrounding it. In general you can make the cutoff point halfway through Russia and halfway above the Med sea. The more heritage and less admixture you have the more you can claim the name.
>Why are Hispanics and Latinos generally excluded and considered their own race despite their varying ancestriesFunny story based on my last post, a Diversity In the Americas 2017 study found hispanic whites in the highest white areas of most nations never went past 90% European ancestry. The average North American was 98%. This means in South American nations the average white community even after eons could not outbreed non white dna.This also means that they are non white enough to be distinct. This is why Spic Fuentes looks like a pale chicano in his side profile. I call it the white ogre look. Many Argentinians and similsr suffer from it.This is also why we must outlaw racemixing world wide as this is something you cannot recover from if too many people do it. Similar things also happened in Southern and Eastern Europe. Very sad!
>>18255197it's because the spanish actually treated their subjects better than the anglos
>>18255220This meant fucking them yeah anon. Now genetically even the whitest communities in South America all have 5% black and 5% native american admixture.That's why they are considered a different race.
>>18255186Denials are to be expected from the dark demons of hell.
>>18254021No such thing as “white”
>>18255147like which groups?>>18255183Where do the non European features come from in your look anon?
>>18255265A non Euro grandparent on my mom's side and admixture in my Euro. My dad is Euro but scores 25% WANA on FTDNA and has some of his relatives clustering Italian Jew or Egypt Jew. My other Euro is from Southwest Iberia by the Portugal border. >>18255197The exception seems to be the Cuban upper class or recent immigrant families to Argentina or Brazil.
>>18255272>A non Euro grandparent on my mom's sideOk so you are not white.
a minimum of colored eyes and hair, you cant be white while having the same black hair as asians indians and blacks, or the same eye color as them
>>18254864he is shitalian/quarter arab (not just saying this as a meme he is literally 25% persian) and spams reddit nonstop.
>>18254021Blond hair blue eyes pale skin. Pure Indo-Germanic ancestry.
Ethnic groups always had preferential in groups but whiteness itself did not exist it was a way to bring dutch, scandinavian and german immigrants into white culture.White was an ideal created to prevent people rising up against their elites. When I was younger I thought it was lefty meme but reading into it there isn't a more accurate way to describe how the term came about and how the government used it. At the state level first as an anti miscegenation law to keep the slave class well defined and then as a response to Bacon's rebellion.
>>18255422It's not about class at all, it's about aesthetics
>>18254021>then it went as far as to even include Somalis and MestizosWhat?
>>18255422>ethnic groups are "real" even though they formed at one point in time but racial groups aren't "real" because they formed at one point in timeWhat causes this autism? Either both are real or neither are
>>18255431Because why am I supposed to feel this magical allegiance to Norway just because they're white too? Nobody forces Indians to feel allied to Pakistan.
>>18255431the broad categories fail to capture anything meaningful, it's very obvious when looking at the term asian
>>18255440"Asian" as a race doesn't refer to every race native to Asia, just the East Asians aka the yellows
>>18255365My quarter is from the Palestine mandate and yeah my dad is Sicilian origins. I feel this way because whiteness is a ripoff. It never gave me institutional power and never gave me privileges. Whiteness also never made me manage to look 100% European. Meanwhile I look visibly mixed like Alvise Perez and I'm supposed to be thankful for being White? NO. Until I look 100% European and get the perks I "should" be getting it's just a set of broken promises.
>>18255425The aestheticity of politics is perfectly obvious when you consider 21st century discourse on race and immigration. You'd expect whites to support brown wageslaves coming to the West because it's in their class interest to have an underclass for shitty and unpopular jobs, but in fact they want browns gone. It's about looks and civilizational vibes
Like I said, whiteness is a ripoff period! I'm White but don't get to look 100% Euro. RIP OFF!
>>18255454You don't understand that lots of Whites are Ellis Islanders or industrial Whites who want those jobs with high pay from the unions. You think that the white working class and the white UMC have the same interests.
>>18255447To you, even if you narrow the term to make SEA it's own race and keep asian to just the six countries (really just four as Taiwan and south Korea are just capitalist versions) north east asians have different religious beliefs and hate each other more than certain outsiders.
>>18255465>Asians don't exist because of different religionsI mean this is just nonsense and you can deny any type of identity like that. "Plumbers don't exist because there are Christian plumbers and Muslim plumbers""Muslims don't exist because there are Shias and Sunnis"
>>18255483Your mentality is dumb too. JAPAN MUST BE LOYAL TO LAOS BECAUSE ASIAN. GREECE MUST BE LOYAL TO NORWAY BECAUSE EUROPE. YOU OWE EVERYONE OF YOUR RACE.
>>18255503Who says they must be loyal?
>>18255506Race realists. They go REEEEEEEEEEE YOU HAVE TO BE LOYAL TO NORWAY BECAUSE WHITE!!
>>18254021European, really it comes from Medieval christendom. If the Muslims never expanded and the entire Mediterranean basin remained apart of the "former roman" LARP club, rhen theyd be viewed as a part of the same community. As it is today the average Spaniard is confused for Mexican in america and the average Syrian looks whiter than the typical Sicilian. Really due to american "white" its just a phenotype thing. Hence why a European passing Turk like Hassanabi is fully white in america.It is a matter of phenotype today.
>>18254021>Muh skin/eyes/nipple color...>Muh religion/culture...It's 2025, we have genetic studies from all countries and can calculate their proximity to each other. Just draw the circle wherever you want instead of using outdated classifications.
>>18255540I cluster here. Now what?????
>>18254021White people (lol) aren't ready for this conversation. I've had it many times, both on 4chan and outside, and of course there isn't a consensus, it's just guess work/the ramblings of racists crying about other white (or non white I guess) people they don't like. First of all, there are some that subscribe to the 1 drop rule; if there was ever a non white (again, without even defining it) in your family tree, matter how far back, you're not white. Even a distant, distant ancestor, accounting for less than 1% of your DNA; too bad, now you can do a Black man, any % run. You guys gotta decide on a minimum %, I can't do that for you. So let's talk about the definition then. So is it just Europeans? Is it white skin? Light hair? This is the very definition of your precious race, something I know a lot of you niggas hold dear, so be thorough. If the definition is European, then Hungarians, who 1500 years ago were nomadic invaders from deep within the Siberian steppe, are they white or not? Because they, and the Bulgarians and Estonians, are originally from Asia. How long does an Asian need to stay in Europe to become white? Can an African do it, or just Asians?OK let's say your definition is physical 'white' attributes. So only light skin and light hair? We know southern Europeans have darker, 'olive' shades of skin than nords, and the majority of southern Europeans have dark brown or even black hair. You can argue it's a heckin tan, but at this point you can argue that their ethnicity reflects their darker skin and hair. If in a thousand years they get so tanned that they evolve into brown colors, are they still white? They are originally white by your definition of course, but changed over time. Can other races learn this power or is it just whites who become unwhite? Can we run an experiment and put sub Saharan Africans in northern Europe (touchy subject I know lol) for 1000 years, and if they lighten up due to evolution, can we classify them as white?
>>18255547And on that note, there are some white skinned people who do some not so white people things, like for instance, be Muslim. The Circassian people are white as fuck, in fact they're the namesake for your entire 'Caucasian race'. An American sociologist went to the Ottoman Empire in the late 1800s, saw a bunch of Circassian sex slaves, noticed they were beautiful, and decided to rename the white race into Caucasian. What about Bosnians? Still white? What about Albanians? Some of them are looking real gypsie like. Speaking of which, what about gypsies? Are they white? Some of them are pretty light skinned. And what about Turks or Azeris? Same ethnic group as the Turkic Circassians, can also be found in the Caucuses, same religion too, and both have been in Europe for a while. What makes a Circassian white but not a Turk? Finally, I've heard it's actually none of those things, and it's just culture, and specifically religion. I've had some dipshit on /int/ tell me: "Historically, united European identity used to mean Christianity. Before people said "white countries" they said "Christendom."" That shit was the highlight of my year, because the first people on earth to convert to Christianity were the Syrians, Assyrians, Arabs, Semites, and other assorted desert dwellers. Hats off to that that guy, really, because now I see: a literal brown skinned Arab from Arabia is white because his ancestors were the first converts to Christ. Beautiful.
>>18255548The truth is there has never been a concrete definition of the term white, and there never will be, especially nowadays when it's become a swear word and even uttering it can cause your fellow white people (lol) to gasp. The truth is that prior to the advent of America, Europeans would categorize themselves based on their ethnicity: ie German, English, French, Italian ect. But then you had a bunch of Europeans going to America and banging each other and after a few generations, nobody knew what their ethnicity was anymore (nowadays you need a DNA test lmao). They had obliterated their individual cultures, and no longer spoke their mother tongues, only American culture and English now. So to feel closer to one a other, you guys started leaning heavily on the "white" thing, even though it's a meaningless term. You did it to feel close to each other, I get it. That's natural, that's human. But the problem is after WW2 when America became the big dog, Europeans in Europe also fucking ditched their culture in favor of American culture, and they started adopting American terms and ideas. Soon you had Germans and French people who families had never left Germany or France, talking about "my white ancestors Mark Antony and Julius Caesar! I'm heckin proud of them and the white race". Bitch, Caesar killed 1/3 of the gauls, enslaved 1/3, and graciously left 1/3 alive to pay taxes. Caesar ain't your ancestor, your ancestor is the slave lmaoooo. Do I have a dog in this race? No obviously not. But I just wanna return to a day where at the very least, Europeans stop basing their self worth off of the term and idea of being "white", whatever the fuck it means. For Americans, they're way too far gone off the deep end. They've got nothing left but being "white", it's literally all they have left in this world, and it's slowly slipping away, so just let them be. But Europeans, you should know better.
>>18255546You are as european as a finn or a turk, more than a nafri or a levantine. Take that as you wish.
>>18255550>But the problem is after WW2 when America became the big dog, Europeans in Europe also fucking ditched their culture in favor of American culture, and they started adopting American terms and ideas. Soon you had Germans and French people who families had never left Germany or France, talking about "my white ancestors Mark Antony and Julius Caesar! I'm heckin proud of them and the white race". Bitch, Caesar killed 1/3 of the gauls, enslaved 1/3, and graciously left 1/3 alive to pay taxes. Caesar ain't your ancestor, your ancestor is the slave lmaoooo. Do I have a dog in this race? No obviously not. But I just wanna return to a day where at the very least, Europeans stop basing their self worth off of the term and idea of being "white", whatever the fuck it means. For Americans, they're way too far gone off the deep end. They've got nothing left but being "white", it's literally all they have left in this world, and it's slowly slipping away, so just let them be. But Europeans, you should know better.Idk where people get this ahistorical notion from that whiteness is an "American" thing. It was literally first conceptualized by Iberians (Europeans), most of the prominent racial theorists were Europeans such as Gobineau, you had Napoleon saying "I support whites [Anglos in some Caribbean conflict against Africans] because I am white", you had Hitler starting WW2 over it.
>>18255483Sure they are more closely related compared to complete outsiders why should they don't identify with each other. Couldn't you take all of the people in the mediterranean as one group instead of including them in white and arab? It's like how Greek,Turkey have opposing identities.
>>18255576Even with Iberians and Napoleon it was a New Worlder thing stemming from colonialism. It was always in response to the colonies. Outside of the new world context nobody cared much about the label "white".
>>18254806Iran_N is white otherwise yamnaya were non-white and therefore nordics are less white than sardinians
>>18255597If Iran N didn't come from Europe so it's non Euro genes
>>18255599Everyone in Europe has ANF and CHG ancestry, that basically means that no one in Europe is European.
>>18255547The default skin and eyes colour for all humans since 400.000 years ago is brown hair and brown eyes.Some random mutations arised 8000 years ago to give the blue eyes and blond hair that northern euros have. But 100% of the ancestors of all northern euros (and all whites) had brown hair and brown eyes and they descend from them. But the default for all Europeans was this: white faces, and dark eyes and dark hair like these spaniards.
>>18255602ANF is European because Anatolia was part of Europe before West Asians arrived there. Iran N is not a European component genetically. The idea of white genes are meaningless because there is no genetic basis for whiteness if non Euro is white.
>>18255605>Iran N is not a European component geneticallyWhat exactly does this even mean? Both ANF and CHG are the same Dzudzuana population genetically close to each other, the only difference being that CHG has ANE and a bit of Basal Eurasian admixture.>there is no genetic basis for whitenessCorrect, unless you start separating "Europeans" and "whites"
>>18255609ANF is like Sardinia by itself. Iran N or Iran Sehgabi is like a West Asian by itself. >>18255609Iran Sehgabi being nonwhite in an Iranian and being White in a Euro make no sense
>>18254021>What does it mean to be "white?"Proper skull shape mostly. >deep seated eyes>no epicanthic fold>no jew genesThe guy in pic. rel for example is more white, than Japanese.
>>18255597Yamnaya didn't have direct Iran_N, they had CHG, which is close, but distinct
ANF is white Iran N is not. Iran N still is like a modern MENA genetically. ANF is like Sardinians genetically. CHG is borderline. If Iran N is white you may as well marry Iranians
>>18254029Hermano vato mi men ése, you're so fucking wrong on so many levels. The Spanish did NOT believe they were white Anglo-Saxon Protestants like a bunch of Antebellum South rednecks back in the 1860s. They believed they were "blanco", but "blanco" is not the same as Starbucks-going white bitch or as Portland-dwelling rootless white hipster or even as 1970's style King Crimson-listening Fortran-programming white & nerdy. They were NOT le "I fucking love Jewish people like Louis C.K. and Adam Sandler but I would NEVER EVER EVER support the State of Israel" white people nor were they "Bro I love tacos but Mexicans gotta go out"-type white people from Tenneseee. In fact, they weren't pink-skinned English tourists from Newcastle with the thickest Geordie accent you'll ever hear who engage in the practice of "balconing" in Tenerife, or even the "I'll shut down my car factory in Stuttgart so we comply with low emissions mandates we've been forced to accept by the EU while ramping up production in Brazil and Mexico"-type German white people.Spanish people did NOT believe in being black thighhigh knseesocks-wearing HUWITE Aryanz n shieeez. They believed they were "blanco", and that they were right about.
White is a colonial concept. Europeans in Europe didn't care. Only the British in America, French in the Caribbean, or the Iberians in Latin America cared.
See what I mean? White people aren't ready to have this conversation. I brought up all these points; I asked about the 1 drop rule, for people to give me an exact definition of 'white' so we all work with the same definition, I asked about the process of becoming white (Hungarian for example), the gradients in 'white' skin colors, extremely pale white people with light hair that are muslims/have mixed with Muslims for hundreds of years, whether Christianity had anything to do with itAnd the only 2 responses? Answered literally none of my questions. Discussed none of my points. It's like you guys are afraid to give me any answers. I think what it is (again, I can't be sure because you all refuse to engage with me) is you're afraid of saying the wrong thing. Because every single 'white' person on this earth has different definitions of what being 'white' is, and if you start getting into specifics, you'll see that none of you agree. The your entire notion of race goes out the window. And you can't have that, nope, can't engage in critical thinking, just plug your ears and heil white people as you've always doneCan we at least start with my first point? What % 'white' do you need to be in order to be 'white'? If you're 75% black (1 white grandparent) then yeah, I'd say you're black. But what about 25% (1 black grandparent)? What about 10% black? Let's at least start with: can you be white and black at the same time? I want hard numbers: at what % does someone need European DNA to be considered white? Can a person with 10% German DNA consider themselves white, yes or no? How about 20%? Give me the %. Something tells me you guys won't give me a hard answer, and you'll bullshit around, or maybe you do, but I guarantee someone will disagree with you. Because again, my point was you guys don't even have a hard definition of the term; how could the concept be real if you can't define it? >>18255576>>18255603You see? None of my points addressed. White ppl are funny
>>18254021> At some point, white people used to strictly mean someone of Anglo/Dutch/West Germanic Protestant descent (hence Uncle Ben's "Swedes are swarthy).This is a leftist myth. Stop believing leftist myths anon.
>>18254021Penelope Cruz is clearly darker. Are you stupid?
>>18255774If currycels online seethe about you, you are White.
>>18255774I got plenty of pics of white people on my phone.>>18255784>Pene:=====D
>>18255787If you crossdress, you are white. If you can't pass, you are HYPERBOREAN.
Common white people, let's hear some answers. Since of course you all agree on the definition, you all must have the same answer, right?These women are all a different % white/black. I wanna hear what % you think they are. Then I want you to tell me which of these women you consider white and which you consider black. Finally I want you to tell me what % white you need to be in order to be considered white.Then afterwards we can address my 3 points:>>18255547>>18255548>>18255550>>18255787>he thinks I'm a jeet>>18255791>they both keep dodging any of my questionsDon't worry, I'm already content in the knowledge that I will never, ever have a solid answer. I've known that about you guys for many, many years, possibly longer than most of you have been alive, you see I'm probably much older than you. I've accepted it, it is what it is. But I wonder if you can accept the knowledge that you've based so much of your identity around a nebulous concept that is impossible to define. Sounds pretty gay to me lol
PVRE R1B CWC/YAMNAYA BOYS
>>18255774Percent doesn't tell phenotype. Someone can be 25% black and look completely white. Someone else can be 25% black and look like a 50/50 mix.
>>18255795>Common white peopleWyppo are some of the most depraved people in the entire world. Gilles de Rais, Marquis de Sade, John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, etc. They're common but not normal.
>>18255795I would ask a liberal which of those women has white privilege and that would be my answer
>>18255798>>18255802Behavior matters more than phenotype. Latinx boys who grow up in the hood act black, whereas Latinx boys who grow up in white neighborhoods end up becoming sissies.
>>18255798Well at least you're trying to engage with me, so for that, thank you. So now what % you aren't doesn't matter, only phenotype matters? This is good, this is good, more info for me to remember. I'll add this onto my ever growing definition of "what white people think the term white means".Well then let's do this. Please tell me the phenotypes one would need to be considered white and black. And what if the children of a mixed race couple (same exact DNA) look remarkably different? I'm not a pheno autist so I don't actually know; can siblings have different phenotypes? Which of these kids are white and which are black based on this new criteria? And again, I just have to point out once again, that still nobody has given me that % I was looking for. You also deftly ignored my question of 'which of these 3 ladies is white and which are black and what % are they?' And nobody has addressed any of the points from my first 3 posts:>>18255547>>18255548>>18255550>>18255800Stop replying to me, whoever the fuck you are. Stop spamming this thread, I wanted to have a serious discussion about this, you fucking faggot.
>>18254021>But honestly, what's so bad about being "non-white?"Another all out attack on inconvenient definitions. What's "bad" or "good" about it doesn't change what it is. Enough seething.
>>18255811>I wanted to have a serious discussion about thisIt's impossible to have a serious conversation about race-based bullshit.
>>18255811>I wanted to have a serious discussion about this, you fucking faggot.Go to reddit then and tell them how white race doesn't exist therefore white privilege doesn't exist. Report back what they told you
>>18255725What is this crashout. Get help
>>18255831I hope you get AIDS, whiteboi.
>>18255550Why do you not believe in whites but believe in "Italians", "French" etc., as if ethnic identities are somehow more "valid"? In Europe leftists like to deconstruct the concept of ethnic identities in order to justify the infinite immigration of browns and they'll say things like "Italians are a 19th century invention"
>>18255835Very sane and not-mad response
>>18255840Whiteness is performative.
>>18255840Not him. I don't want mass migration or think I owe migrants anything but I don't feel some magical connection over "white". I don't feel some intrinsic connection to Sweden. Again it's possible to not want mass migration to your country without pretending to feel everyone in the "white" category must feel connected.
>>18255826I unironically believe both. White privilege doesn't exist and race is a social construct. I don't owe "minorities" anything, but I also don't owe other people simply for being white.
>>18255840white is a fluid identity, in the US where the idea was from MENA were called white before other categories were introduced
>>18255811>And nobody has addressed any of the points from my first 3 posts:What is there to discuss? You can deconstruct any idea or identity marker with the spectrum fallacy.Do colors exist? At what point does orange become red?Do morals exist? Why then can't humans agree on which behaviors are good and which are bad? Do tall people exist? At which point are you "tall"?Do Christians or communists exist? These groups can't agree on anything and constantly infight and purity spiral.Can you "prove" that tall people, Christians or communists exist? How would you prove that?
>>18255848stunning and brave
>>18255848>race is a social construct
>>18255919I think I'll trust her instead of that soi boi
>>18254021>What does it mean to be "white?"You need to be Spanish. Otherwise, it won't work.
>>18256135how could you not include Leonor in this
>>18255547>Hungarians, who 1500 years ago were nomadic invaders from deep within the Siberian steppe, are they white or not? Because they, and the Bulgarians and EstoniansNot possible. If that were the case, then they would resemble Tartars, but they don't.
>>18255883This should have been the first reply and the the thread would have been over by now
>>18255774>Genetic distanceFirst, to define what white is you must draw a circle in this chart >>18255540. White would be what is inside and not white what it isn't. If you belong to one of the clusters inside your circle, you are white. Most people consider whe european subspecies as white, while some include eastern aryans as well. No one counts arabs and nafris as white so their clusters are not included inside the circle.>Haplotype You need to compare it to the ones that coincide geographically with those clusters. If you don't have whg or Indo-European y-dna you are not white. A non-white raped into your paternal line so you are forever tainted.>PhenotypeIf you fit the criteria above, most likely you fit this one too. The colour of your pussy is irrelevant. Phenotypes don't represent DNA as a whole and since generic studies exist, they are not relevant.>Genetic abominationsIf one of your grandparents wasn't white, you wouldn't be in the circle you draw at the start so you are not white. If you are mixed you are not white, as simple as.I see you tried to pass genetic abominations as white, they are not and never will. No matter how blonde, blue eyed and pink pussied they appear. What matters is genetics.
THE SOCIAL CATEGORY OF «WHITE» INCLUDES, AND HAS ALWAYS INCLUDED, EXCLUSIVELY, PROTESTANT ANGLOS.
>>18254258>>18254272>>18254283The main difference between Spanish/Portuguese and Anglo/German "purity laws" (outside the religious stuff) is that the Anglo-German one is your typical "one-drop rule" like the one that operated in America. The Iberian one is more like a "reverse one-drop rule" in where you could be "purified" if you looked white enough to pass.That's the reason you could even see octoroons (1/8 blacks) seen as slaves when they basically were undistiguishable whites in comparison with their masters.In Spain, Portugal (and sometimes France) and their colonies, you could be considered white in the very first generation if the mixed child was white enough to pass.>while Africans were linked to the biblical Curse of Hampic very related
>>18257227and it didn't exactly work. There are plenty of people walking around brown looking in Brazil who are almost entirely European because of gene recombination
>>18257298t. nigger
>>18254021There are different definitions of whiteness: biologically and culturally. Biologically, whiteness is the result of low levels of eumelanin due to low UV. It's very common in Europe and East Asia. According to this definition, Japanese are white but due to the social construct of race, no one argues for this (well, Hitler was close but for the wrong reasons). Culturally, whiteness is an umbrella term for hundreds of ethnicities which have been inhabiting the continent for thousands of years. According to this definition, Iberians are white.
>>18254021It's pretty simple. Ancestrally European. You can also tell because it's the people who people with animus against Whites have a problem with.
>>18257319Biologically japanese cant be white understood as a race and not skin color, because of this >>18255540
>>18257319*Culturally, whiteness is an umbrella term for hundreds of European ethnicities
>>18255193I'd say practically speaking Tajiks aren't White because they lack the cultural/historical connection with European history and White practically speaking means ancestrally European, so Georgians *feel* more White. This is not me shitting on Aryan/White racial identity. I actually point out that there were Aryans right next to what became Beijing.There is something to it meaning Christendom.
>>18255848Race is a social construct in the way that species is a social construct or anything is a social construct. The idea that there are biological lines of people
>>18255868I thought MENA being called White was mostly due to the Jesus issue (not being willing to call Jesus non-White), combined with the tiny number of actually MENA people who the law needed to deal with, so it was more simple to just declare MENA White. Idk if people actually felt that way.
>>18255919You can cut through all the deconstruction around genetics and le science by just asking what race a baby will usually be if it has two black parents or two white parents.
>>18254021They're not white.
>>18254029Ben Franklin was a dumb nigger, who probably only met swedish sailors on a boat and was like "Wow, these men who spent 16 hours a day being roasted by the sun really are swarthy. I must base my racial theories on that. I am very smart."
>>18257322I mean real biology. Race is not a biological reality. Humans share 99.9% of the DNA with each other. The 0.1% or less accounts for genetic variations which determine your phenotype. Both Europeans and Asians have fair skin so they are both white from a biological perspective.The picture above is just accounting for groups with shared genetic markers which form the 0.1% figure above. Germans and Japanese will still obviously be genetically distant from each other because they have different markers due to geographical constraints, even their fair skin is formed by different genetic factors. They still live in regions with low UV though hence why their skin colour is similar.
>>18257357Race is as much a biological reality as dog breed. It's distinct mixes of people who also bred within themselves.If race has no biological component, then I suppose the race of a child born to two White parents, Black parents, Asian parents, or any other smaller population will be a complete dice-roll with no connection to the parents
>>18257322>>18255540Please be clear, because I'm an ESL, so if I'm mistaken I apologize. I'm Greek, and my people were literally the first white people to ever exist, we are as white as can be. Are you saying everyone in that red box is white? Because I cannot believe /his/ in 2025, almost 2026 are so fucking stupid to fall for Roach propaganda. I asked you to be clear so I will do the same and be clear: Turks have not, and will never be white. They as asiatic invaders, nothing will ever change that.Georgians? White. Circassians? White. Dagestanis? White. Armenians? White.But Turks will never ever be white even though they've been in Europe for longer than those aforementioned groups. I don't care. They could spend 10,000 years plaguing Europe and they still won't be white.
>>18254258>>18254272Spaniards cared more about religion than anything else. Race was a secondary issue.If any, they hated protestants as much as they hated muslims.
you will never be white sanchez
