I might actually agree, but that's why he is God and we are not

>>18255731
Not really. He's the Logos of God, so he's the creator of the world and the world exists for him and through him. He had to die to redeem the world, that's what they say at least. Although I'm not sure if I really buy that. He's the axis mundi, so shouldn't the world die rather than the other way around? A god dying to save the world sounds like someone who is deeply afraid of being alone.

>>18255736
it's okay to fear being alone

>>18255740
Why would the very son of God be afraid of being alone? He knows God.

>>18255728
The son was willing to go to the cross because the light of God then could then rise in Christ to have salvation and eternal dominion over all of creation in God's name.

You of course have been deceived by devil worshipers into believing that the dark demons of hell deserve other than to die, but such beliefs are not christianity.

>>18255770
So Jesus didn't die for demons? Are demons not part of the world?
>What, then, is the heart of the doctrine that the divine Apostle is teaching us in this passage [1 Cor 15:27-28]? It is that at some point the nature of evil will be transformed into non-existence, completely made to disappear from reality, and pure divine goodness will contain all rational nature within itself; nothing of all that has come into being from God will fall outside the boundaries of God’s Kingdom.

>>18255772
Demons are evil.
>evil will be transformed into non-existence

>all rational nature
If demons were rational, they would have repented.

>>18255780
Demons are rational beings. Humans are rational and not many have repented.

>>18255782
Those that have not repented are not rational, no.
>>>"Only he is truly rational who repents. "
>>>"Those who do not repent are irrational, like the animals."
>>>St. Isaac the Syrian

>>18255789
>The one, then, who has united all of us to himself, and who is both united to us and has become one with us all in his relationship to us, makes everything that is ours his own. And the chief of all the blessings he bestows on us will be submission to God, when all creation comes to be in harmony with itself and “Every knee will bend to him, of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord” (Phil 2.10-11). Then, when all creation has become one body and all have come together with each other in him by their obedience, he will offer to the Father the obedience of his own Body to himself.

>>18255801
Is this supposed to make me forget that "evil will be transformed into non-existence"?

>>18255808
All souls are a mixture of good and evil until they are purified. If you truly believe you are without sin, then you bear false witness against God. And so even demons, who are truly and deeply evil, will be transformed until there is nothing evil left in them. Unless, of course, you think that there's a threshold for evil. But if there is, who says that you have any chance of being saved?

>>18255809
Repentance is the threshold.

>>18255814
>If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
>Every knee will bend to him, of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord
If you desire that some would not go to heaven, why? Was not the parable of the prodigal son for people like you to understand that God loves everyone?

>>18255824
The prodigal son repented.

>>18255828
Only after losing everything.

>>18255839
Doesn't matter if he lost everything or only a penny, repentance was the threshold.

>>18255844
So when the scriptures say all will bend the knee and repent, even if they are in hell, then all will be saved.

>>18255845
Again, is this supposed to make me forget that "evil will be transformed into non-existence"? Your reasoning can be 100% consistent and still be wrong if you leave out a relevant premise.

>>18255847
You are implying that any creation of God is 100% evil. If it exists then it is fundamentally good, even though it might be considered deeply evil. I think you want not just demons damned, but many other people too. I think you believe that you were saved by your own efforts rather than God's mercy. I won't judge, because I do not know, but that's the appearance your words are giving me. How do you really feel about all that? Do you want everybody to be saved? It doesn't seem like it.

>>18255801
>>18255808
>>18255809

They are like a dream when one awakes;
when you arise, Lord,
you will despise them as fantasies.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

We are not angels, nor demons, but the judge of these principles.

you are all sons of the Most High.
But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.

Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance

>>18255850
>If it exists then it is fundamentally good
This is incredibly misleading. It's like saying "if it happened then it is fundamentally good." In some way, perhaps... Judas betraying Christ ultimately led to the best thing that had ever happened: salvation. Doesn't mean it was fundamentally good at all. It was fundamentally terrible.
If you were arguing that you're crossing your fingers for everyone to be saved, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But leaving out bits of theology to make it seem like that's the straightforward conclusion is not something I can validate.

>>evil will be transformed into non-existence
>If it exists then it is fundamentally good
So the aforementioned "evil" is fictional and the sentence carries no actual meaning? Is that what you're proposing?

>>18255856
>All souls are a mixture of good and evil until they are purified
>Repentance is the threshold.
>If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
>Every knee will bend to him, of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord
>Then, when all creation has become one body and all have come together with each other in him by their obedience, he will offer to the Father the obedience of his own Body to himself.

>>18255850
>creation of God is 100% evil
God creates what is good, but the opposite is also created as a privation.

One day the Sons of God came to manifest themselves before the Lord, and their antonyms also came with them. The Lord said to these inverted meanings, “Where did this shit come from?”

In heaven, the antonyms are remembered as nightmares that no longer manifest. Halloween is a testimony to this. Demons have been reduced to idols. A privation incased in zero kelvin like the fantasy of Dante.

>>18255858
>purified

His sons used to hold feasts in their homes on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would make arrangements for them to be purified

>>18255858
>"the devil ... will be tormented day and night forever and ever"
>"fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell"
>"That through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil"
>>>actually destruction and eternal torment mean you will get better and chill forever
Again, universalism is a nice hope but not a valid certainty

>>18255869
>The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
And if death is destroyed, how can any who have lived and died continue to be dead?

>>18255872
Being dead is not an action that requires some entity's participation. You're trying to draw analytical conclusions from symbolism that is closer to poetry than analytics. It's as good as guessing.

>>18255879
No, the problem here is that you do not share God's love for all creation. When they say Christ defeated death, the entire point is that death itself has no hold over what was subject to death. And if death has been defeated, then all those who died will be saved from it. You sound very Jewish.

>>18255881
>death itself has no hold over what was subject to death
Correct. God does. Our contention here is whether all his claims of eternal damnation and destruction are real or just ultra-cryptic and threatening ways of saying "Don't worry, everyone will be chill."
>[pilpul about poetry]
>"You sound very Jewish"
Ironic.

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>>18255772
>1 Cor 15:27-28
The Son is the King of heaven and the rightful Lord of hell. The truth is black and white, and I hope that one day you see the light and love your God because otherwise the world will be naught but hell and death if you reject the rule of heaven.

>but what about the dark demons of hell
abomination contrary to the Father's creation deserves nothing but death, and we give thanks to God for the Son providing redemption for the fall.

>>18255884
If even the Jews who rejected Christ, will be saved, then why do you deny God's mercy?

>>18255886
I don't. I just reconcile it with many being told "depart from me".
Out of curiosity, am I understanding you right that you think "Depart from me" actually means "Depart from me but just for a lil bit, then come right back and we're all good." ?

>>18255888
>"Depart from me but just for a lil bit, then come right back and we're all good." ?
Not like God ever said that to anyone ever.

>>18255892
Right. Why don't you use the same interpretative device for me btw? Every time I disagree with you maybe I'm just leaving out the part where I say "actually just kidding, you are right all along and the most convenient interpretation possible is true".

>>18255893
Are you comparing yourself to God?

>>18255896
>Are you comparing yourself to God [, surely not, actually you're right, my bad]?
Woah it really works.

>>18255898
If you are not a Jew you certainly align with the enemies of Christ, who seeks the salvation of all souls.

>>18255900
Seeks? I thought he secured it, you were so certain.

https://youtu.be/txqogec85g4?si=mU4ZTRIg2QOiVKTq
:D :D

>>18255809
Demons have already been judged and sentenced. They have no option for repentance. The Mouth of God has already spoken concerning them and he will not go back on his word. There is no salvation for demons

> I wrote out your petition, and in my vision it appeared thus, that your petition will not be granted unto you throughout all the days of eternity, and that judgement has been finally passed upon you: yea, your petition will not be granted unto you. And from henceforth you shall not ascend into heaven unto all eternity, and in bonds of the earth the decree has gone forth to bind you for all the days of the world. And that previously you shall have seen the destruction of your beloved sons and ye shall have no pleasure in them, but they shall fall before you by the sword. And your petition on their behalf shall not be granted, nor yet on your own: even though you weep and pray and speak all the words contained in the writing which I have written.

>>18255845
The evil ones who rule the earth and oppress the children of men will bend the knee and repent in the last day and they will beg God for mercy BUT God will NOT forgive them. It says so in the book of Enoch.

It says:

And all the kings and the mighty and the exalted and those who rule the earth

Shall fall down before him on their faces,

And worship and set their hope upon that Son of Man,

And petition him and supplicate for mercy at his hands.

Nevertheless that Lord of Spirits will so press them

That they shall hastily go forth from His presence,

And their faces shall be filled with shame,

And the darkness grow deeper on their faces.

And He will deliver them to the angels for punishment,

To execute vengeance on them because they have oppressed His children and His elect

And they shall be a spectacle for the righteous and for His elect:

They shall rejoice over them,

Because the wrath of the Lord of Spirits resteth upon them,

And His sword is drunk with their blood.

And the righteous and elect shall be saved on that day,

And they shall never thenceforward see the face of the sinners and unrighteous.

And the Lord of Spirits will abide over them,

And with that Son of Man shall they eat

And lie down and rise up for ever and ever

>>18255925
>see the face of the sinners and unrighteous
>the darkness grow deeper on their faces
you can identify the sinners and unrighteous because they have non white faces

>>18255939
You don't have the eyes to see the spiritual faces. You worship your flesh but are a stranger to the spirit. The darkness in your heart is putrid and smells like sewage. In the day of the Revelation everyone's true faces will be revealed and they will be judged by who they are and not by how they look like.

>>18255888
Nice digits.
>Depart from me but just for a lil bit, then come right back and we're all good." ?

We are not an angels or a demons.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

We are not wicked. We are being purified of wickedness.

>>18255901
The ax is already at the root of the trees

>>18255957
In other words
>"fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell [, but this fear is in vain because he isn't doing that, take it easy]"

>>18255917
>salvation for demons
The only salvation for demons is this.

They are like a dream when one awakes; when you arise, Lord, you will despise them as fantasies

>>18255967
if demons could be saved, would you want god to save them?

>>18255963
In other words, fear the stove, because it can burn your face, and that fear is real, as the stove can truly hurt you, but don't worry about it anon, because you are smart, and you're not going to stick your face on the stove. We know what evil is, so that we can avoid it. Its real, but we do not manifest it. Therefore, it is like an idol in our hands. A vestigial memory of something that we did not select.

>>18255973
Yes. As memories of what not to do.

when you arise, Lord, you will despise them as fantasies.

>>18255949
Your verses here >>18255925 say that God will punish the non white for their abuse of the white. Good luck on your day of judgement.

>>18255974
A whole bunch of leaps in there. The most serious being
>so that we can avoid [evil]
>we do not manifest [evil]

Honorable mention
>fear it
>but don't worry about it

>>18255973
I will tell of all your deeds.

>>18255981
Not an argument. I accept your concession, and my faith grows stronger.

>>18255987
>doesn't answer the question

>>18255988
Leaps in logic are definitely an argument.

>>18255990
It's only a leap if you are an infidel who denies the Lord in his heart.

>>18255994
Not how logic works.

>>18255981
Yes. Dont worry about it. Just because a stove can burn you, that doesn't mean you should have some phobia about it, and tell everyone to stop using it to cook dinner, and freak out about it, and sweat at night alone in your bed, worrying about burning yourself night and day. Just don't stick your hand on the stove anon.

>>18255998
Just dont touch the stove Anon. Stop worrying about it so much. Its just a stove.

>>18255999
>>18256001
"Fear it and don't wory about it." isn't valid, I'm sorry.

>>18256003
>im sorry
I accept your apology. I can see that you understand, and need no further explaination. You're smart, and can grasp the nuances of nomenclature.
You know that I am drawing a distinction between a rational fear, and an irrational fear, or phobia. You understand what a stove is, and you "fear" being burned in a rational and stoic way. But, when talking about spiritual things, we both habe an understand that goes beyond simple logic. We do not become hysterical, and develop phobias regarding stoves. We just dont touch the stove.

>>18256003
Fear without worry would be courage. Be brave anon. Its just a stove. You know how to cook without getting burned. I believe in you.

>>18256016
Of course I understand it, I've seen this invalid line of argumentation thousands of times.
>Yes they said [X]
>but... it actually refers only to [Xa], the narrow tangential subcategory [X].
>They forgot to tell you that.
>You can proceed as though [X] was never uttered.
I believe in informal logic it's called bracketing. It's a well documented bargaining-themed coping mechanism. I think the best outcome of this discussion is that you learn about this pattern and start observing it in your life.

>>18256019
Fear without worry would a disconnect between your rational and emotional faculties. If this is what it takes for you to cook on a stove, I recommend you stop giving people theological advice.

>>18256027
I think you suffer from NPD. You should seek go to therapy and work that out. Praying for you.

>>18256030
Anger was supposed to come before bargaining, not after.

>>18256033
Praying for you.

>>18256035
Thank you! A great outcome as well.

>>18256041
How can I do what Christ commands if I do not pray for God's mercy to be shown to all souls, especially those who are lost?

>>18256044
Ask someone who objects to you doing that.

>>18256047
Shouldn't you? Since I would be praying for something contrary to God's will, and it is written:
>Let not my will be done, but yours?

>>18256051
I don't think I should, no. That all shall be saved is a valid hope. It's just when people try to frame it as a direct scriptural implication or an outright promise that it becomes unclean.

>>18256019
Another interesting observation.

In the past, the word "fear" was tied to logic, and worry, was tied to the "emotion". But in modern secular terms, this understanding is reversed. They want to change the meaning of old philosophy. They now try to say that "fear" is an emotion". As if you should be emotionally be "scared" of reality, and feel all the negative emotions that go with that.

The truth is, you should "fear"/understand the consequences of your actions. This is much better advice than what the modern interpretations are trying to create with their perversion of language.

Just look at what post 6027 above is trying to do.
"Fear without worry would a disconnect between your rational and emotional faculties"

Yes. If you are an iron worker, you need to disconnect feeling from understanding. Could you imagine some guy walking around on an I beam,1000s of feet in the air, shaking in fear and crying like a baby. He would just fall off the building without being able to focus on doing his job.

Courage is knowing that something is dangerous, and disconnecting from the emotions, because a job needs to get done.

The modern interpretation is a subversion. A curse designed to weaken a culture. A spell cast by a sorcerer, who is changing the meaning of words to cause decay.

Im not worried though. The truth will be revealed by fire.

>Integrating your emotions means crying like a baby
How do these people do anything?

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>What is hyperbole?

>"Could you imagine [an absurdly exaggerated example]? That would be absurd!"

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>What if we took the concept of a hot stove, and absurdly multiplied the consequences of touching it by infinity and beyond.
Thats absurd. Stop worrying about that.

>>18255980
It says God is going to punish the mighty and exalted of the earth? Who are the mighty and exalted of the earth? Blacks or whites?

>>18256113
>exalted
have you not seen the blasphemous worship of everything dark which has taken over the earth?
>mighty
the all consuming dark tide of hell spawned demons are championed by the devil worshiping synagogue of satan, a serious threat requiring a divine final solution.

a final battle between the light of God and the darkness of hell for dominion over the earth, as was of course foretold with a preordained victory going to the white

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus

Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.

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>>18256196
>we wuz galatians n'sheit

>>18255850
>You are implying that any creation of God is 100% evil. If it exists then it is fundamentally good, even though it might be considered deeply evil.
This is Greek Philosophy. Not Christianity.
The Greeks believed that their demiurge or similar spirit was only capable of making goodness and therefore anything that existed was fundamentally good, even if it was spiritually imperfect.
This is not what Christianity teaches.

>5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
>6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.
>7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Isaiah 45

Also, reference Job.

God creates both light and dark.
God is the reason for peace and the reason for evil.
Evil doesn't exist as some kind of cosmic accident or absence. It is as much the purview of God as kindness, charity, and love.
God is not limited to only making good things, nor does he ever pretend to be so. He sends evil towards the enemies of the Jews, to the Jews themselves, he knowingly sends his son to be tortured and killed, he states that he will send evil to future heretics and non-believers.

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Someone tried to kill me
before.
What is moving the golem of data and lore?

I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire

Isaiah 45:7 draws a distinction between form, and create.

I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.

The nuance is that form is the intended creation, and the creation, is the privation of what is formed. This is why it is said that creation is done "ex nihilo". Its meaning comes from the nothingness of the intended,s selected, chosen, annointed FORMations.

Isaih 45:7 is describing the concept of formal privation.

Job further supports this understanding of God, when Satan is first defined as an angel (messanger) who tags along with the actual son's of God (formations of good selections).

One day the formations of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and the adversary (opposite) also came with them. The Lord said to that which was in opposition tonwhat he had formed, “Where did this shit come from?”

The opposite of what was selected said,
"From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it."

Satan is the opposite of what evolution is forming. Satan is the vestigial waste of natural selection, slowly fading into a memory of what we, as a living culture, choose not to be.

>>18256411
*form is the intended manifestation

>>18255728
your kids are worth dying for tho

>>18255728


HE DID NOT DIE FOR THE WORLD: HE DIED FOR HUMANS.

>>18256411
Stupid CIA agent.

>>18257463
>For God so loved the world

>>18255728
>according to me perception
into the garbage can it goes

>>18257779
Not an argument. I accept your concession.

>>18257849

Here we go kek

>>18257780


THE WORD USED IN THE ORIGINAL GREEK IS «KÓSMON», ACCUSATIVE OF «KÓSMOS»; THE COSMOS IS THE UNIVERSE —ID EST: THE WHOLE OF GOD'S CREATION.

THE WORLD IS NOT THE UNIVERSE; THE WORLD IS THE CIVILIZATIONAL SYSTEM MADE BY HUMANS.