Is this verse more about general charity i.e give *some* to the poor but not everything, or is it a "whitey on the moon" type shit where you shouldn't spend money on anything else while poor people still exist?
>>18265120WHAT?IN THAT PASSAGE, JESUS CHRIST WAS TESTING THE MERCHANT, OR, RATHER, EXPOSING THE MERCHANT'S SEVERE WORDLY ATTACHMENT, WHICH PREVENTED HIM FROM FOLLOWING HIM.THE PASSAGE CONCERNS WORDLY ATTACHMENT, NOT CHARITY, NOR WEALTH, NOR POVERTY.
>>18265120>are the most obvious and direct commands of Jesus that actually require us to sacrifice something painful or do anything we don’t want to do metaphors? 90% of modern Christian’s are cowards that don’t even believe in their own religion.
>>18265120He’s saying to sell everything as you’ll have riches in heaven, the second one. This makes sense when you consider that Christianity wasn’t supposed to outlive the apostles, the world was supposed to end around 100AD or so
>>18265156How can you be wealthy without worldly attachment?
>>18265170Where did I talk about metaphors? It's about a profound difference - give *some* or give *all*?
>>18265199EVERYONE LIVES IN THE WORLD, THEREFORE, EVERYONE HAS WORLDLY ATTACHMENT; IT IS HOW WE ARE ABLE TO LIVE; THE PROBLEM IS WHEN THERE IS A DISORDER, AND THAT ATTACHMENT BECOMES PATHOLOGICAL AT THE EXPENSE OF TRANSCENDENCE.IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FINANCIAL STATE, AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH VIRTUE, AND WITH ATTITUDE, BUT THE WEALTHY, IN GENERAL, ARE MORE PROPENSE TO BECOME PATHOLOGICALLY ATTACHED TO WORLDLY MATTERS, SINCE THEY HAVE A GREATER STAKE IN THE WORLD THAN POOR PEOPLE; THE POOR ARE NOT EXEMPT FROM THIS PATHOLOGICAL WORLDLY ATTACHMENT.
>>18265120The context is that Jesus was the leader of a full-on doomsday cult, his followers expected an imminent apocalypse ushered in by Jesus. That's why Jesue said things like that. He meant that there is no reason to hold on anything material because the world will end in a few years and everyone will be judged by God, so better give away all your posessions and use the remaining time to repent and prepare for your judgement.
>>18265258>an imminent apocalypse ushered in by Jesus. That's why Jesue said things like that. He meant that there is no reason to hold on anything material because the world will end in a few yearsJerusalem, Israel and the old Temple system did end. Anyone who owned a house in Jerusalem was cooked unless they sold it and fled before the Romans arrived. Which is exactly what Christ and the early Apostles said to do.
>>18265170To be clear, you think that it was an "obvious and direct" command of Jesus not to spend any money on human accomplishments(like the moon landing) as long as some poor people are still around?
>>18265120You don't need to think that you have to give all your money to the poor in order to think that there's obviously something wrong with spending billions of dollars on a dick measuring contest with another country when people are starving all over the world. There's obviously a difference, for example, between someone wasting money on luxuries every now and then, versus dumb rich people buying gold toilets for the hell of it. If you were never allowed to spend any money on yourself, you would probably become burned out, see giving to charity as a burden, and be less motivated to continue giving, etc., but the latter is just completely unjustifiable waste.
>>18265207Does he say sell some of your possessions? It’s pretty clear what he means
Literally follow based Jesus and live in material poverty. It's not that hard to understand. Unless you're a retarded idiotic evangelical I guess but then you're no Christian kek.
>>18265120Why would Jesus care about people going to the moon? He's probably say that sounds like the Tower of Babel. Anyway yeah he thought the world was ending soon and you shouldn't save money for the future.
>>18265564>people are starving all over the worldReminder before the mid 20th-century Europe has a higher share of the world's population than Africa. The reason so many Africans even exist is due to post-colonial external aid from food-surplus countries you ungrateful fuck
>>18267050They exist, in such numbers, because abrahamics think their skin is the color of feces and so use them as a insult against non believers.
>>18267068They exist in such numbers due to external support which by the way is a violation of Genesis 3:17
>>18265632>catholics in 2026 say burning down the Notre Dame was based actually because it wasn't spent on the poor
>>18265614He doesn't say "sell all of it" either, it could easily mean a simple charity as we know it today.
>>18267094Bug specifically as an insult to nonbelievers by simple people.
>>18265632>sell all your possessions>Jesus gets crucified >you're left with nothing
>>18265120In the first century rich people were considered to be divinely blessed and therefore the rich guy was expecting Jesus to tell him that his place in heaven was guaranteed
>>18267228>nothingExcept 10s of thousands of hardcore fellow believers of a new religion that will eventually grow to be the most powerful on God's Earth.
>>18267424all the apostles got martyred
>>18267097>whataboutismThanks for proving my point for me
>>18267050I'm not sure how this is relevant to the point.
>>18265229Where does le bible speak of attachment or dukkha?
>>18267823Because you invoke their little plight as reason for the west dumping money on them when their entire existence is thanks to the west dumping money on them.
>>18265564>dick measuring contesti.e competition driving human advancement? Both countries congratulated each other whenever they made an accomplishment and even cooperated on projects for years to come. The moon landing was not a golden toilet. Only envious people decry spending money on such an accomplishment>"There is reason, after all, that some people wish to colonize the Moon, and others dance before it as an ancient friend"Yes, I would rather colonize the moon than dance under it. Only envy can drive someone to resent that motivation.
>>18269324Even if that were true, it's not clear why that would absolve the West of the obligation to help the developing world. Adults should feed starving children even though their existence is thanks to adults.
>>18270104The west has no such obligation, Genesis 3:17 implies that it's even sinful. There is a clear difference between a social safety net for your own community than to keep floating entire foreign nations full of billions of people who don't work.
>>18270112The world unemployment rate is a little under 5%. There are not billions of people who don't work.
>>18265120>while poor people still existThe poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me
>>18270125Source is from the same countries which report low crime rates which victimization surveys have shown to be way higher. Sub-saharans work about as hard as the Ultra-Orthodox community in Israel. You can only achieve such extremely inflated fertility by not working and freeloading off of someone else's support.
>>18265298>Which is exactly what Christ and the early Apostles said to dono, neither Jesus nor the apostles said that would be just the romams burning the temple after getting fed up with another jewish chimp out He predict that the whole world would be destroyed, God would judge people and he and his followers would be rewarded with celestial palaces and riches in a second heavenly Jerusalem in the new world
>>18265120He means selling frivolous possessions like designer clothes and silverware, not starving yourself to death for the sake of others, you matter too. People are always accumulating vanities and making choices just to improve their image in the eyes of others, it makes people unhappy and leads to sin.The typical 4chan denizen is guilty of this too. Chad is certainly vain, but do you think no one ever hated him or hurt him? When it happened he did not retreat to the internet, vidya and gooning, he snuck out and met with his friends and his relationship with them would lead him to greater things. These distractions are your vanity, it is why you spend so much on gaming chairs and graphics cards and $100 video games.
>>18267731They didn't, all the stories of apostle getting martyred were created more than a century after they died and are most likely invented as pieces of propaganda for early christians
>>18265120Non meme answer, from someone who has studied some amount of theology. This was a call for that particular young man. In that case, that young man was a good man who followed all Commandments. But he had an attachment to his wealth that made him prefer it to following Jesus.Christian perfection is less so about giving alms and more so about detachment from material stuff, pleasures of the fresh, etc. You detach yourself from those things and focus yourself on loving God.So, the "perfect Christian life" would be that of a monk. Vows of chastity, obedience and poverty. Praying and meditating on God. But of course the monastic life is not for everyone, as said by Paul. Celibacy is a superior state, but some people are called for marriage (and in marriage they should work to not be too attached to sex).Another thing to mention is that Joseph of Arimatea was a wealthy man and is considered a saint.
>>18270154retarded cope he said to sell everything, donate to the poor and live as a hobo because the world would end soon
>>18270158>theologyretarded word games to try twisting a text to force it to mean what you want to meantheology is worthless and meaningless
>>18270166>retarded word games to try twisting a text to force it to mean what you want to meanI think you are talking about Higher Critical Biblical scholarship
>>18270157Still they didn't see any prizes in the rest of their material lives for selling all their possessions and following Jesus if they didn't get killed
>>18270157>all the stories of apostle getting martyred were created more than a century after they diedDo you have any proof of this?
>>18270481You should be less polite to Atheistic scum and not accept claims without any evidence such as the one he made.
>>18270613His proof is that he doesn't think it happened
Everything Jesus says makes more sense when you remember he was preaching an imminent apocalypse and his followers (and a lot of Jews that were dissatisfied with the Romans/temple leadership) thought the world would end in less than a lifetime.
>>18270266Don't even mention those fiends. They'll try to tell you these translations are the same with a straight face.
Trump is the real christ. Giving to the poor is for libtards
>>18271073>Trump is the real christ. No he's not.
>>18271108Enjoy hell
>>18265120Paul's idea of Christian charity seems to lean toward not commanded but highly recommened giving within the Christian community, with equalizing wealth disparities as the ideal.2 Corinthians 9I do not say this as a command, but I am, by mentioning the eagerness of others, testing the genuineness of your love. [. . .] And in this matter I am giving my opinion: it is beneficial for you who began last year not only to do something but even to desire to do something [. . .] For if the eagerness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what one does not have. For I do not mean that there should be relief for others and hardship for you, but it is a question of equality between your present abundance and their need, so that their abundance may also supply your need, in order that there may be equality. As it is written, “The one who had much did not have too much, and the one who had little did not have too little.”Meanwhile Jesus seems to advocate for a bit more extreme variety of communalism where all believers share everything.Mark 10:29-30Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the good news who will not receive a hundredfold now in this age—houses, brothers and sisters, mothers and children, and fields, with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life.Especially by the time you get to Luke.Luke 14:33So therefore, none of you can become my disciple if you do not give up all your possessions.
>>18271136Something resembling in-group communism is also what seems to be described by a guy named Lucian in the second century.https://sacred-texts.com/cla/luc/wl4/wl420.htm>The activity of these people, in dealing with any matter that affects their community, is something extraordinary; they spare no trouble, no expense.>You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on trust, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property.
I'm not sure exactly what the early Christian thinking was around how much charity should be allocated to fellow Christians vs. Non-Christians in need, except that they did do both.
