What happened to the fucking mayans was sad. I really eager to know what would a country with modern or atleast third-holey cities with mayan everything would look like.Many of the locations on this map are also inaccurate lol.>But they still exist today!They got stomped on 1...2...3 times and extremely violently, it's not the same. Their population skyrocketed only recently and if Yucatan wants to really do something it has to split off Mexico ASAP. They are heavily hispanized also.
Latin America in general would be way more interesting with its native cultures instead of the dystopian spicblob
>>18281488I NEED silver to fight a losing war over the Netherlands, Neyuocoatltzan
>>18281488I agree. At least Peru, Bolivia, Yucatan and Guatemala make efforts to preserve their true identities. If only they weren't heavily underdeveloped shitholes but Thailands.
>>18281485>They are heavily hispanizedPosts like this are so tiresome to read and totally detached from the reality that those people have come to accept. They are quite thoroughly christianized and arguably more religious than the increasingly faggotized urban city dwellers. There is no world where these people abandon Christianity. If anything, they would only entrench it further in their institutions as a tool of state unification should they ever successfully become an independent polity.
>>18281536Christianization and hispanicization are/were not mutually inclusive, tostiloco
>>18281536...?Every "muhhh bwaaahh so tiresome" faggot follows up with some deranged shit, how does that contradict the fact they are heavily hispanized
>>18281485>Their population skyrocketed only recently and if Yucatan wants to really do something it has to split off Mexico ASAPSure, if Yucatan wants to have a good future it needs to split off, but Yucatan is mixed and in the past was ruled by an America-sympathetic white planter class.To preserve the Mayans, split Guatemala into two pieces, one coastal, and one interior. The Interior Guatemala would practically be a Mayan ethnostate, were they could focus on the re-indigenization of their culture. picrel: Guatemala ethnic map. The darker the color, the greater percentage Maya.
>>18281562>but Yucatan is mixedYuk' a t'aan is like 90% maya bro, and they are the better performing ones. If anything they need the millions of guatemalan highlanders for labour.
>>18281564>Yuk' a t'aan is like 90% maya bro, and they are the better performing onesI don’t deny that there are still many Maya on the Yucatan peninsula, it’s just that they are less dominant percentage-wise. For example, it is true that Indigenous people make up the largest racial demographic in two of the three Mexican states that make up the Yucatan. Specifically, they are the largest group in both Campeche and the Mexican state of Yucatan, both of which are on the peninsula, but they aren’t the largest group in the third state of the Yucatan peninsula, Quintana Roo. Even more unfortunate, while making up the largest group in the two previously mentioned states, they don’t make up an outright majority in either. They are 43% of the population in both Yucatan and Campeche. They may be the more successful ones, but any hypothetical breakaway Maya nation would have to come to two terms with the Mexican government which would want to maintain the coast of those two states. The problem is that they’d likely demand all of Campeche remain in Mexico’s hands, and as for the state of Yucatan, well, Cancun alone is enough for them to fight to the bitter end. This is why I say that the hinterland of Guatemala is the best bet for them, because in many areas they consist of 70-100% of the population, and Guatemala’s coastline not the interior, is the most population-dense region, and the economic center. It’s also worth mentioning that Mexico’s Maya population lives closer to the coast in the three Yucatan states while the interior areas near the border with hinterland Guatemala are predominantly Mestizo making any chance of potential territory being taken from the interior of the Yucatan less likely.
>>18281564>>18281580Essentially, to sum up my word salad, you’d have to get the Mexican government to agree to something like what I’ve depicted in my picrel here, trying to make them satisfied with only retaining the coast, while even in this scenario, many areas that are upwards of 70%, even 90% Maya are left outside the borders of the Maya concession.
>>18281580>>18281584you are a separatist mayan guatemalan yourself arent you
Looking at the towns of these people is eye-opening. It's utter proof that some people are just superior to others. They are in a state of poverty with low human development, but they keep their streets beautiful, with vibrant colors and clean, everyone walks around peacefully in order and they punish anyone who breaks the law immediately.Now what excuses do jeets, nigs, spics, etc even have? They live way better than the Maya and can't even form a functioning society.
>>18281598>you are a separatist mayan guatemalan yourself arent youHaha no, I’m actually an American but I have taken a keen interest in Mayan culture recently. The way they’re spoken of when we are young, you’d think they had all gone extinct in the 1500s. You can imagine how much of a shock it was to me when I discovered a few years ago that, not only were they still around, but in significant numbers.
>>18281601>Looking at the towns of these people is eye-opening. It's utter proof that some people are just superior to others. They are in a state of poverty with low human development, but they keep their streets beautiful, with vibrant colors and clean, everyone walks around peacefully in order and they punish anyone who breaks the law immediately.Now what excuses do jeets, nigs, spics, etc even have? They live way better than the Maya and can't even form a functioning society.This is true, for anyone else wondering. Everyone who has spent enough time researching the region eventually learns of this, and seeing it in person would be even more surreal. The Maya are the poorest of their region, compared to the mestizos, but they have utterly different social standards. Go look at a homicide map of Guatemala in 2018 and then compare it to the racial map I posted earlier above in the thread the negative correlation between violent crime and Maya is near perfect. It completely blows the notion that violent crime is stimulated by poverty out of the water. The poorest area of Guatemala, the safest area of Guatemala, and the most Mayan area of Guatemala are all the exact same part of Guatemala
>>18281536christcuck seethe out of nowhere
>>18281562Maybe I'm a fag or something but in my mind the only thing that building a ethno-state like you guys are saying would accomplish is massive ethnic tensions. But I don't think you guys are ready for that conversation considering everyone here just parrots "multiculturalism is dead."
>>18281485>What happened to the fucking mayans was sad.They attracted the wrath of God by worshiping devils and doing human sacrifices. Whites were the hand of God sent to punish the brown/black dark demon spawn.
>>18281967>massive ethnic tensionsJust deport them lmao, worked for czechs and poles after ww2
>>18281976The True God created the Black Death and the two World Wars to punish all the murderous genocidal christcucks who can only possibly thing of violence. It was a divine act of justice against the destroyers of civilization and #1 torturers and haters of humanity.
>>18281986You're partly correct. Whites only have protection from death by identifying collectively as the body of the one true living God. Once they universalized their religion and abandoned their salvation in Christ they began to be destroyed by the dark demon spawn of hell.
>>18281967>>18281984>>18281584Ethnostates are a meme sadly, the only existing ethnostate today (Japan) has a very convienent geographic position that allowed it to be. What needs to happen is a reunification of the mayan area and re-mayanization of its people, because latinx culture proves to be a disfunctional disaster even at its best and Mayan culture proves to work even at its worst. Yucatan's higher development and resources/tourism combined with the Highlands population can bankroll into a powerful economy.
>>18281990>blah blah blahJapan rightfully recognized christuckery and pisslam as the demonic death cults they are and killed all the demon christians and muslims trying to spread it through Asia. Now, SEA is doing way better than it once was under christian occupation. Not to mention Japan.
>>18281997Pretending to be retarded won't save you when they resurect the body of Christ to save themselves from death again. I hope before then that you learn to see the light and love your God.
>>18282003Sorry, I can't hear because of the black cock in your mouthAnyways, christianity will be dead by the end of this century. Sad!
>>18281994>the only existing ethnostate today (Japan)You must be fucking retarded to think that lmao, czechia, poland, hungary, croatia, until recently netherlands, denmark, finland, the list goes on, were 99% their respective ethnicity. You're a mutt, aren't you?
>>18282009Oh you demons will have your day, when you can either kneel before the one true living God or be cast out or destroyed. For your sake I hope you see the light in time.
>>18282029Christcuck delusion
>>18281990>>18282003>>18282029Christogenea tranny is here
whats the difference between aztecs and mayans anyway?
>>18282084One spans a history of almost 3000 years and used to be different kingdoms and polities. They have their own script and many languages. Their culture centered around cycles of nature and life and they were obsessed with it. Today, subdivisions within mayans still exist, with many ethnicities who speak their own language across the territory. Kinda like subdivisions within Germany like saxon, bavarian, etc.The others were once nomadic peoples from California who eventually settled in the valley of Mexico around the 13th century. They spoke Nahuatl, which was the lingua franca of Mesoamerica by the time, not exclusive to aztecs. They adopted similar mesoamerican traditions, but in steroids. They were obsessed with death and blood; albeit the toltecs previously similarly were. Their empire became the most powerful one by the time and everyone hated them for their practices like flower wars. They were almost entirely wiped out, with minimal descendants today. Most indigenous groups in Mexico descend from other ethnicities.
>>18282048You sure are, shilling your fed honeypot like always.
Can we talk about the Maya please not about christianity
>>18281580mayans live fine in the yucatan and there's no tension between them and mestizos
>>18281580I say the entirety of Yucatan breaks away from Mexico.It's not even the same country. It tried twice anyway, third time's the charm, plus this time with the population actually in mind instead of landlords wanting to be richer and fatter; so no caste war.Tabasco should be de-mexicanized and included
>>18282120>and everyone hated them for their practices like flower wars.Wrong. Nothing the Aztecs did was abnormal by Mesoamerican standards, and the Flower Wars were in reality a special kind of political strategy that was only ever directed against very specific geopolitical opponents, not a central element of Aztec expansionism & religion that was universally applied to all peoples they ever conquered for purely superstitious reasons as erroneously presented among internet history circles. The only Flower Wars we know of were directed against the city-state of Chalco and the alliance composed by Tlaxcala, Cholula and Huexotzinco (which were all Nahua states and thus had the exact same worldview as the Aztecs, which is why they went along with them), and they always stopped once a state became an Aztec tributary or their ally.
What causes mayaphilia and why is it prevalent in this website?
>>18281493>Juan, why are you burning my village>TLOACHCOTZLI, FUCKING DUTCH MADE ME DO THIS, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! FUCK I NEED GOLD! I NEED SILVER, I NEED GOLD!
>>18281536you know you can spread Christianity without burning down towns, mass killing farmers in a temple, destroy local worship practices and enforcing your own language on the locals?If India could do this, you also can!
>>18283047probably old "aztecs violent mayans peaceful" stereotypes
>>18281608SPOILER: It's neither the Euro nor the Native genes that explains the stabby behaviour
>>18281485>>18281488>>18281494>>18281939you lost, tranny
>>18281997>>18282041>>18282048(you) lost tranny
>>18284368>>18284374>trannies out of nowherechristian mental illness
>>18284252Id say the only ones who are violent by nature without needing nigger blood are mexicans, just look at their cartels. Probably just a black (lol) sheep among the red family much like russhits in the white family.
It has nothing to do with race or ethnicity or whatever the fuck. If the Yucatan was a major drug producing/shipping node your beloved Mayans would be brutally murdering each other as much as all the mexicans/colombians/brazilians lol
>>18284558There are drug producing/shipping nodes all over the world, why is it only a few ones in latinxland where we get liveleak videos of captured cartel members having their faces flayed off by their cartel rivals?
>>18282120The Maya were not any less obsessed with "death and blood" than the Aztecs and other Mesoamericans were, and neither did their culture center around cycles of "nature and life", not any more than other Mesoamerican cultures at least.Maya exceptionalism of that sort is just a relic of outdated 19th and early 20th century historiography. It wasn't really a thing in reality. Once you get really deep into the subject you will eventually realize that the lines between them and the cultures around them were a lot more blurred than most people tend to imagine.
>>18284569Because 1. The only other major drug-producing areas on planet earth, the poppy fields of Afghanistan and Southeast Asia, are and historically pretty much always have been under the firm control of singular entities, not dozens or hundreds of cartels and gangs and other factions actively competing against each other and the weak ineffective nation-states they are based in, same thing for the major ports over at Europe and the rest of Asia; and 2. they do not have the very specific mixture between a very flamboyant culture centered around intimidating said rivals through extreme brutality AND widespread internet and social media access while speaking a language and being part of a civilization directly adjacent to the western one both in geographical and cultural termsThat is to say, while the Taliban and ISIS-K over at Afghanistan probably do shit as fucked up to one another as the cartels do in Mexico, they just usually don't bother filming it, or uploading it social media as much, and even when they do, their internet isn't as closely connected to the western internet as the latin american one, and the fact that they usually don't do that means that less people know about what does exist, and so people don't actively look for it, so less of it is known, and the examples that are known are probably labeled as middle eastern religious conflict, since the drug trade aspect of the Afghan conflict isnt quite that known in the mainstream consciousness. meanwhile, everybody does know about the phenomenon of latin american cartels and their brutality and chinese industrial accidents and whatnot, so that's what platforms like liveleak actively look new examples ofTL;DR: Because as it turns out, many things are happening all at once :)
>>18284593>the other crims uld do the same shit we do but they just hide it better o algoThat's really not the case
>>18284599Way to miss the point lolIn simpler terms so you can understand: actually no, the conditions that led to cartels being a thing in Mexico and elsewhere don't exist anywhere else in the world. Hell they didn't even exist over there until the second half of the 20th century lol
>>18284603organised crime exists all over the world, it's latinxers that have uniquely turned executing their criminal rivals into a competition over who can do it in the most flamboyantly grotesque way
>>18282084Aztecs = relatively recent term that can mean a couple different thing depending on the author. Usually refers to either all Nahuatl-speaking populations of postclassic Mesoamerica, one specific Nahuatl speaking ethno-political group in postclassic Mesoamerica (the Mexica), or the Empire they founded alongside two othef Nahua ethnic groups. Under the last two definitions, they primarily lived in what is now Central Mexico, under the first definition, they lived all around Mesoamerica and even down into Central America.Maya = a catch-all term that more or less denotes all populations that spoke a language from the mayan linguistic family, and once shared a specific lingua franca, a common elite culture in the classic period of Mesoamerican history. They were never really one people, not culturally not linguistical and definitely not politically, especially after the end of said common elite culture at the end of the classic period. They inhabited most of the eastern half of Mesoamerica, as illustrated in the OP pic.They were both Mesoamerican civilizations, think of it in the same way that Japan and China are both East Asian or Sinitic civilizations, and thus were very much alike. Some try to divide them neatly in stereotypical terms, chiefly: Aztecs = violent and warlike/Maya = Intellectual and religious; but that's not really accurate at all.
>>18284593>>18284558There are cartels in Yucatan you stupid mexcrement, all of foreign origin. The southern part of it is in fact a drug producing node. You do not see the locals forming their own cartel groups because it goes against their values. You see them forming groups to DEFEND themselves instead.And the Taliban burns, beats to death and beheads people which is mercy compared to what mexcrements like to do. It is 100% cultural you disgusting goblin
>>18284571>The Maya were not any less obsessed with "death and blood" than the AztecsI bet you do not know the Maya hated the Itza Maya or why.
>>18284469>still seethes about christians many centuries later
>>18283047Because they are a strange exception to the general prejudices we have against brown people
>>18281488The Spaniard admixture is eugenic, why do you think it'd be less shitholey? Native Americans aren't SEAmonkeys; they are considerably more violent, even if much less than the blacks.
>>18284671I do. Nothing to do with the subject at hand. The Maya practiced the same religion as the Aztecs and every other Mesoamerican and proudly claimed descent from central mexican cultures more often than they scorned it. They tore the hearts out of war captives, sacrificed children to the rain god and flayed people in fertility rituals. Acting like they were a island of enlightened "cycle of life and nature" enjoyers amidst a sea of barbaric death worshippers is nonsensical 20th century romanticism.
>>18284899Making up shit I never said award
>>18284655>You see them forming groups to DEFEND themselves insteadIf you knew anything about latin american you'd know that such militia groups pretty much always just become drug trafficking gangs themselves kek
>>18281488your demon worshippers got btfo and were conquered and killed by superior conquistador chads, cry about it kikeif they were so good they wouldn't have lostcatholicism was destined to take these lands, it was providence
>>18285176Why haven't they yet then
>>18285061So all of them were barbaric death worshippers?
>>18285245Catholicism is dying lmao
>>18285449I guess so, if we're going by that other guy's standards and yours. They didn't really worship death though, Mesoamerican cultures did not actively venerate their death deities, who more often than not played antagonistic roles in their mythological narratives. Human sacrifice was usually understood as a natural payback for the gods' benevolence and continued patronage, and so the majority of human sacrifice was dedicated to deities associated with things like rain, fire, war and fertility.
>>18281584wasn't this just the Caste War though? Mexico failed to integrate the red on this map in the late 1800s, then gave up and declared victory. So they kept their language and culture, stayed "in Mexico", didn't footsie around with Britain or the US (who didn't want them anyway) or with France (but fuck France)
>>18281485>What happened to the fucking mayans was sad.I visited Chichen Itza back in the late 80s on a day trip from Cancun (this was when you could still climb around on the pyramids and stuff, before spring break retards ruined it) and it was really cool.I would have had a ton of really cool photos, as I brought my dad's old school 35mm camera and took tons of shots but I fucked up by leaving a few pesos and a cigarette as an offering on one of the chacmools and when I went to rewind the film in the camera, the film spool had jumped the sprocket and when I opened the camera, all the film was exposed.tl;dr don't mess around with Mayan gods.
>>18285883
>>18281601>nooooooo I want Mexico to be a poor rural shithole like Burma where people live 60 years but the streets are clean because there is no consumerismRomantic poverty leftist tranny drivel.You,ve been watching too much propaganda by the EZLN, you dumb gringo. Mexico is much better off since the Spanish brought the Gospel of Christ to this land.
>Romantic pover-AAAAAAACCCCKKKKK!!!!!! *chainsaw sounds* AAAAAACCKKKK!!!! THE CARTEL ESE ACCCCCKKKKK!!!!Nobody here has watched "EZLN propaganda", just views of indigenous towns recorded by travellers.Also another proof that christcucks shitting up this board are mostly christxicans
>ITT: retarded foreigners with noble savage delusions
why does the topic of mayans cause immediate mexican seething
>>18286321I think they find it embarrassing that they can't handwave away the violence apparent in Mexico by blaming it on some genetic curse inherited from the 'injuns', given the comparatively-low rates of violence in Maya-dominated states
>>18286333nobody cares about that shit
>>18286321Its really fucking weird, i try to discuss mesoamerica on here a lot and you'll notice that the guys who come to derail it are always saying spanish shit and sharing memes in spanish, they all assume every mesoamerica thread is just mexicans fighting with other mexicans instead of the usual international demographics threads on here get. Bizarre self hatred, you'd think theyd be proud of their ancestors accomplishments
>>18281488That territory should be its own independent country. Imagine the tourism shekels. Also, nicer borders.
>>18282120I really want to know where this myth that the Aztecs were so hated comes from. Is it Guns, Germs, and Steel? They were a powerful military empire with enemies like Tlaxcala and their allies, so of course their enemies hated them, but what military enemies didn't hate each other?Also, flower wars were explicitly agreed upon by both sides, why are only the aztecs blamed for this?
>>18281485They never recovered after the fall of the olmecs. It's the same shit that will happen to all of the Eurasian groups. Your guys are destined to be a bunch of weak tech advanced warring nations.
>>18288074>flower wars were explicitly agreed upon by both sides, why are only the aztecs blamed for this?Because it was basically one guy holding a gun to the others' head and asking them to agree to a Flower War.The Aztecs controlled all the territory around Tlaxcala and were much stronger they could genocide them at any time. They just refused to annex them or incorporate their people, kept them weak enough that they would not be a threat and provide the occassional flower war "fun".Like a cat toying with his food. They were dicks.
For a correct perspective on myth and religion, with a light pack I traveled to climb pyramids and mounds in North and South America and South East Asia. Many personal trips over many years. Specific to Maya briefly. Many I came across don't speak Spanish, but the local Mayan dialect, in Mexican and Guatemalan Yucatan and mountainous Guatemala, anywhere away from dollars. If I needed to buy something we used pointing and a hand held cheap calculator. More dollars more mess drawing whores, drugs and predators of every mix including the indigenous Maya. In remote villages no one bothered me, if anything politely ignored me but they offered food and puzzled directions to some remote tangle of ruins. Point is their life is immediate and confined to their village unless they carry produce to market. They come down from the mountains or across a lake by boat. Those "religious" do practice a combination of animism and catholicism but I also saw evidence of the practice of sorcery. They are not political at all but exploited politically.
>>18288074hispanists trying to justify the conquest while toning down the racism
>>18288074Unironically racism. Everybody knows and accepts by default that europeans are an advanced, rational people capable of making decisions based on mundane things like economics and politics, which is why nobody ever questions things like France allying themselves with the ottomans or the British with the Japanese against SpainWith Natives on the other hand people tend to see them as these inherently naive and superstitious primitives whose every decision must have been based on some primal emotional or religious response rather than reason. So when they hear that the Spanish got native allies when they conquered the Aztecs, instead of actually reading the substantial amount of literature on the subject, they simply imagine it surely must have been because they were uniquely hated for their particularly evil ways and not because politics were also a thing that existed in Mesoamerica, and what actually went down was way more complex than just some Apocalypto-esque>and the poor oppressed good indians were so tired of being brutalized they were willing to helpe these weird foreigners and together they killed all the bad indians. The End!>>18288177Like this guy for example. He doesn't have the full picture. He doesn't mention the fact that the Flower Wars against Tlaxcala were actually fought against an alliance composed of Tlaxcala, Cholula and Huexotzinco, the latter two of which were indeed left alone once they were defeated and peaced out of the conflict. Or the fact that the Aztecs commanded some of their tributaries to attack Tlaxcala and economically blockaded them by denying them resources like salt, all evidence in favor of the idea that they did indeed plan to conquer Tlaxcala for good and were playing the long game. Or the fact that the Tlaxcaltecs were nahua and did indeed share the same religion and philosophy and AztecsInstead, he parrots the pop-his notion that Flower Wars were purely a sadistic ritual rather than a political strategy
>>18288160>They never recovered after the fall of the olmecs.Go on, i really want to see you try to justify this opinion
>>18288601>Flower Wars weren't a religious custom, it was very complex 4D chess geopolitics which I won't explain btw, these natives would just blow your mind if I didYou are a fucking moron.
>>18288970There was probably a religious veneer to it, no one's disputing that. The thing is, they weren't just that, and you are deliberately trying to craft a false narrative around the almighty Aztec Empire coercing their enemies into agreeing to participate in Flower Wars and deliberately keeping nations like Tlaxcala independent for purely sadistic purposes, "cat toying with food" as you put it, which is simply not the case and what i'm primarily taking issue withAnd yeah i'm not entirely sure if they can be considered a "custom", considering the one source we have that talks about them in length claims that they began in the 1450s as a direct response to a drought. not really a tradition>I won't explainBut i did explain though? Like i said, the Aztecs stopped waging Flower Wars against states that became their vassals or their political allies, as was the case with Chalco and Cholula, and they did do things like cut-off trade of specific goods to Tlaxcala and ask their vassals to wage their own wars against the TlaxcaltecsAll of this suggests that 1)They were indeed planning to eventually conquer Tlaxcala outright instead of keeping them around indefinitely, and 2) Flower Wars did have a political element to them, as they were directed specifically against their geopolitical enemies and suspiciously stopped whenever they achieved their goals
