prove you're not a pawn of yaldabaoth and give me a qrd on gnosticism
>>18284332the episode of the literature and history podcast on gnosticism is quite good. Listen to that and you'll have your qrd.https://literatureandhistory.com/episode-083-gnosticism/
>>18284332gnosticism is to christianity like some fallacious facsimile which deliberately sets out to usurp the legitimacy of its source material for its own
>>18284371seems to me that the modern churches and their canonized theologies were not established for a long time after Jesus' death and as such there were a wild amount of theories and movements centered around the old testament and the new covenant proclaimed by Him.I find early Christian history really interesting, seemed like an exciting time for philosophical and theological thinking.
All quietist movements are a coping mechanism by the oppressed after they realize that they cannot overthrow their masters
>>18284332It's a primitive solution to the problem of evil that was ahead of Judaism ("I'm persecuted because I'm chosen and other people don't exist per se") but behind Christianity ("everyone is persecuted because human souls are the most important thing in the universe")
I'm not feeling up to giving a qrd on Gnosticism as a whole atm, but, since this looks like today's designated gnosticism thread, I'd like to share my suspicion about the meaning of Thomas 97, which someone in another recent gnosticism thread expressed confusion about, and for which every explanation I came across online was not very persuasive to me. So, for reference:Thomas 97Jesus said, "The Father's kingdom is like a woman who was carrying a jar full of meal. While she was walking along a distant road, the handle of the jar broke and the meal spilled behind her along the road. She didn't know it; she hadn't noticed a problem. When she reached her house, she put the jar down and discovered that it was empty."And here's my intepretation: The jar the woman is carrying represents the body. The distant road represents a person's life. The meal spilling out represents injury, sickness, aging, and finally, when the jar is empty, the death of the body. The woman's home represents the pleroma. And, finally, the woman's obliviousness to the meal spilling out represents the ideal Christian attitude of not being distracted or thrown off by impermanent things, but striving continuously for what is eternal.
>>18284748(cont.) In defense of that intepretation, I refer mainly to 2 Corinthians 4-5, which also uses the metaphor of a jar for the body and shares all the themes I mentioned, so that the Thomas saying can be seen as a much more concise (maybe too concise) presentation of the same ideas.Some excerpts:For it is the God who said, “Light will shine out of darkness,” who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. But for now we have this treasure in clay jars, so that it may be made clear that this extraordinary power belongs to God and does not come from us.We are afflicted in every way but not crushed, perplexed but not driven to despair,persecuted but not forsaken, struck down but not destroyed, [. . .] Even though our outer nature is wasting away, our inner nature is being renewed day by day. For our slight, momentary affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all measure,because we look not at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen, for what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal. [. . .] For we know that, if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
>>18284751(cont.) One detail that might seem to exclude my connecting these two texts would be that in Paul, there's a treasure in the jar (which is the light of gnosis), while in Thomas the jar is empty. But in Thomas the jar is evisioned as being carried outside the person rather than containing the person, so I don't think it's too much of an obstacle.But, as secondary support, I also refer to Isaiah 53, which uses the metaphor of pouring out or emptying for death: >Therefore I will allot him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out himself to death and was numbered with the transgressors, yet he bore the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors.And to the Valentinian Gospel of Truth, which has a third instance of a parable or allegory involving jars, one where the jars being broken isn't a bad thing, like I think has to be assumed for Thomas, and where there are better jars in place of the broken jars, which would fit with the end of the Corinthians passage, providing a closer bridge between the ideas in the texts.>It’s like some who’ve left their home, having jars that weren’t any good in places. They broke them, but the master of the house doesn’t suffer any loss. Instead he rejoices, because in place of the bad jars are ones that are full and complete.
>>18284332i called my grandpa the nword bc he is the yaldabaoth. well i guess it all comes from the attempt to understand chaos. after doing a 2cb that was like acid and I became god and the holocaust was funny bc like assuming it happened and the jews are good then it was just a bunch of suffering for no reason, the germans lost ww1 and thought it was so dumb they just couldn't let it go. almost all suffering is pointless and is caused by an attempt to understand a previous chaotic thing when the best you can do is actually laugh at least get away from the chaos and as long as you're still alive have a laugh about it don't keep trying to understand it or maybe do understand it a little but then try to laugh idk my life has gone down a very fucked up path so maybe don't listen to me
>>18284332Religious herpes. Every religion that touches a greek gets a gnostic heresy. Some of them don't admit it but even a cursory glance can find the gnosticism - islamic philosophers just file off the polytheistic bits to avoid being killed.
>>18284748>>18284751>>18284754thanks for the interpretation. very interesting. the only thing that confuses me about the metaphor is that the woman is obviously trying to take the meal home, that's her goal, so wouldn't losing the meal kind of mean she failed? maybe i'm focusing on the real-life half of the metaphor.
yaldabaoth is based actuallyI support him
>>18285600I personally subscribe to the idea that he's just ignorant. I feel bad for him b/c he was basically a deformed baby left floating around in vacuum with God-like powers. Who tf are you going to get your morality from in that situation? If, on the other hand, he is aware of the pleroma and is only trying to keep us here our of spite or because he's bored then he deserves to have his eyes put out.
Just watch the true trueman show
>>18285593>the woman is obviously trying to take the meal home, that's her goalI would say that isn't her goal, although it might look from the outside as if that should be her goal, so she looks silly for doing such a poor job of it.1 Corinthians 3:18b-19aIf you think that you are wise in this age, you should become fools so that you may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.1 Corinthians 4:10aWe are fools for the sake of Christ.It is a definite problem with my interpretation of the parable that the woman is carrying the jar at all when she could seemingly set it down and get home faster at any point. But if you take for granted at least the assumption that the jar represents her body, then it's a bit more obvious why she doesn't simply put it down until it empties on its own.And stepping outside of the metaphor, there's the idea that the soul and the body both depend on each other for the time being, so maybe simply dropping the body would actually make it more difficult for the soul to reach its true home. It could get "lost," or I think in some Gnostic systems, die with the body. (I still don't have a definitive idea of the range of ideas early Christians had around the nature and relationship of body, soul, and spirit.)So the soul would be better off trying to catch sight of its true home first, while still with the body, than to hope it can find its way without the stability of the body. Something similar to this is one of the reasons Buddhists don't think suicide is all that smart.Thomas 112Jesus said, "Damn the flesh that depends on the soul. Damn the soul that depends on the flesh." Thomas 59Jesus said, "Look to the living one as long as you live, otherwise you might die and then try to see the living one, and you will be unable to see."
>>18286027I think you would enjoy The Corinthian Body by Dale Martin.
>>18286027And if my interpretation of Thomas' Jesus still seems a little too enthusaistic about the death of the body, I think that sentiment about Thomas understanding of Jesus could be preserved in the canonical gospel of John, which has Thomas say, upon hearing about the death of Lazarus,John 11:16Thomas, who was called the Twin* said to his fellow disciples, “Let us also go, that we may die with him.”*Thomas Didymus, as in the name of the author of the Gospel of Thomas, while IIRC the other gospels only call him Thomas.
pure cope
>>18286052much better than adulterated cope
>>18286035I'll check it out, thanks.
>>18286027>It could get "lost," or I think in some Gnostic systems, die with the body.Or captured by the archons and recycled, as in the apocryphon of john, of course.
I will eternally be curious as to what the source of Gnosticism was. It started popping up early enough for its proponents to have been in contact with the apostles during their lifetimes. Would have been kind of strange for them to whip out an entirely new theology despite that, unless one or more of the apostles were Gnostics themselves. I'm not suggesting it's the "secret truth" or anything, but it probably didn't come from nowhere either.
>>18284332Aeon Byte Gnostic Radio
>>18286095It's said some of the apostles had contact with buddhist monks around that time. I can't remember specifics.
>>18286095It's constantly tied to Jews and Judaism- even during the Crusades (the Albigensian Cathar heresy, which is so similar to Sabbatean Judaism that I've read religious history experts accusing the same historical figures of practicing both- and there's possibly a chain from the Cathars to Isaac Luria's invention of Kabbalah to Sabbatai Tsvi.) Jesus Christ accused some of the Pharisees of being closeted satanists and I've read the Talmud- some of the stuff in it is basically satanic. I regularly see Boomers whining about Newly Discovered Secrets Of The Elites and it's just some basic thing like childfucking or molech-sacrifice or transgender-fetuses or troon-diety from rabbinical Judaism.I regret studying Judaism and it's one of the worst decisions I've ever made.
Trick question, you are supposed not to according to gnosticism.
>>182863852. I've even the Cathar heresy popping up online though without the name. It's bizarre. Jesus Christ constantly claimed to be the Son of the Old Testament God and fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies so no one literate would believe this stuff.
>>18286385>It's constantly tied to Jews and JudaismSo how do you explain this passage from the second discourse of great seth, purported to be Jesus speaking>Adam was a joke. . .Abraham was a joke, as were Isaac and Jacob. . .David was a joke. . .Solomon was a joke. . .The twelve prophets were a joke. . .Moses was a joke. . .He did not know me, and none of those before him, from Adam to Moses and John the Baptizer knew me or my siblings. They had instruction from [Yaldabaoth’s] angels to observe food laws and submit to bitter slavery. They never knew truth and they never will, because their souls are enslaved and they can never find a mind with freedom to know, until they come to know [the immaterial Christ]. . .[Yahweh] was a joke, for he said ‘I am God, and no one is greater than I. I alone am Father and Lord, and there is no other beside me. I am a jealous god, and I bring the sins of the fathers upon the children for three and four generations’ – as though he had become stronger than I and my siblings. . .He was a joke, with his judgment and false prophecy. As you can see there, that text, the Gnostic Second Discourse of the Great Seth, is ready to toss the Jewish roots of Christianity into the waste bin – to dismiss the entire Old Testament as a misguided and illusory fable.
>>18286385wtf are you babbling about the crusades for, that occurred a thousand years after Gnosticism was dead
>>18286389**Even seen.I need to get to sleep. But He'd say things like "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" and Cathar heresy is kind of tied to Arian heresy (they both deny the Son which means they don't have the Father.) The Jesuit historians say Arius of Alexandria was a Jew and they've pushed Arian heresy for years, from the Ebionites culminating in Islam.
>>18286393>>>18286385 (You) #>wtf are you babbling about the crusades for, that occurred a thousand years after Gnosticism was deadhttps://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Cathar+gnostichttps://letmegooglethat.com/?q=isaac+luria+gnosticism
>>18284332but I AM a servant of Yaldabaoth ...
>>18286397that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread
>>18286428nothing has anything to do with the topic of this thread, since this thread has no discernible topic.
>>18286445the topic of the thread is to explain to OP what gnosticism is, catharism is not gnosticism, it's an entirely separate thing
>>18286422>average (((antisemite))): everything is Jews. Jews rule the world. Jews have high IQ. Jews esoteric knowledge is the key to everything. Jews are G*d's chosen people. You're a Jew. I'm a Jew. Jews.I'm starting an ideology for people who think Jews are unimportant.
>>18284748yinnokpmrootjhect
