>le dark ages aren't real it's a jewish psyop
How was this graph compiled? How do you even start applying something like gdp to something like the song dynasty?
>>18289870great thread saarall fields
>>18289870>Societies that produce large amounts of staple crops needed for high density populations are richerNo shit.
>>18289870>temperature and GDP per capitaThe correlation is the opposite
They weren't but not the way you think, the truth is until recently Europe was always a backwater the middle east, India and China were always centuries ahead.
>>18290013>EuropeNorthern europe*
>>18290013Gdp per capita in Europe surpassed other parts of the world in the High Middle Ages.
>>18289870these historical GDP per capita charts don't seem very scientific to me, so many people back than were slaves and indentured servants and we don't have accurate population numbers either
>>18290057>>18290051white coping lmfao
>>18289870how do you measure gpd in middle ages?that is the most blatant thirdie cope i've seen in a while and i read leftypol for shits and giggles
>>18290060only one coping is you by bringing up shit from a thousand years ago
>>18290063We have a rough idea that post roman north western europe was a complete shithole, not only from economic predictions such as the one posted by OP but also by accounts from those living there or travelling there from the outside. That's why we call it the dark ages, you know.>thirdieI'm southern european, btw
>>18290080sure buddy feel free to post your racial traits to substantiate that claim anytime
>>18289870>>18290060Scandinavia had universal literacy in the 1800s, meanwhile india doesn't even have that today lmao
>>18290096>post is about the middle ages>moron brings up the 19th century out of nowhere
People were taller and healthier during the "dark ages" than they were during any period until the industrial revolution.Note the male height, 172cm, a substantial number of people in the modern world are still shorter, though granted this is in part due to genetics since Japan is a developed country yet 172.1 cm . However Egypt is far lower at 170.3 cm and India an astonishingly low 166.5 cm. We can expect their heights in 1000 AD would be even lower.So why did these societies have high GDP per capita? These are estimates based on commodities besides those which improve standards of living of the average person. The rich desire pepper spiced food, silverware and silk clothing, but a poor person would sell them to buy bread, wooden utensils and plain cloth. The average white man and woman lived better than their Indian, Muslim or Chinese counterpart. The average white noble was a warrior and an adventurer like the vikings, these would often conquer and defeat their counterparts after sailing long distances on longboats, which other cultures could not replicate despite the "barbarians" supposedly having inferior technology.
>>18289870What was the GDP of the Tartars?
>>18289891It feels like Jeets have recently discovered/his/ and have completely shit up the board with retardation
>>18290060>post unsourced graph>get called a retard by every poster>"LOL UR COPING"Am I the only adult on this board? It seems like it's mostly teenagers from third world countries who watch DBZ all day.
>>18290352People said OP was wrong but nobody has rebuked his claims yet
>>18289897>doesn't know what per capita meansThis board gets more low IQ by the day
>>18290138GDP correlates strongly with quality of life today. GDP correlates strongly with quality of life in the past. It stands to reason that given that Western Europe had a low GDP during the Dark Ages, our quality of life was also lower. How can that be so difficult to understand? >>18290243No. 4chan is just increasingly a bunch of losers, and losers of the whyte kind too are easily baited, either because of being angry at world and not stopping to think before spassing out, or just plain low IQ. Then a positive feedback loop happens where more low IQ losers bumping these threads leads to more people wanting in on the fun of baiting you dummies >>18290063Plenty of ways. Literally anyone even remotely interested in history should know this
GDP per Capita is related to money velocity, not wealth.We need to compile silver and gold to calculate wealth.
>>18289900It's always fucking WS, Greenland, Somalia and NK on these maps lmao.
>>18290435A GDP per capita difference between 3000 and 40000 indicates a difference in living standards. The difference between 300 and 600 meanwhile is a matter of agricultural surplus, that doesn't always correlate with quality of life(for instance the early medieval northern europeans didn't really practice serfdom and mostly lived in something resembling a nuclear household, later advances in agriculture brought serfdom and cramped multi generational houses).
>>18290080when was northwestern europe ever good even during antiquity times?
>>18290594Those GDP figures of the past are made on very tangible resources (of which luxury resources make up a tiny portion btw), when compared to our increasingly ethereal world of global finances. Resources which, assumingly they're reasonably evenly dispersed, means higher QoL. It also you know correlates with a higher civilisational level in general. Hence a dark age during the period of economic downturn in Europe. I am not sure what you're even arguing about here desu, even if I agree that QoL and GDP isn't perfectly 1:1
>>18290416You're a retarded nigger and should hang yourself. Better crop yields mean bigger populations and more available resources for the state to devote to artisans, clerics, and scientists.
>>18290696Relax buddy. You weren't at all being clear about what you were implying Anywayhttps://ourworldindata.org/crop-yieldsIt's not really true that European countries had low crop yields, at least not from the immediately obvious reasons like poor soil quality. Yes, civilisation is built on the back of food surplus, but it can also just as easily be absent even in the presence of a huge food surplus - see how India has just been endless hordes of barely-organised subsistence farmers for most of its history, or how Italy had a long period of irrelevancy after the fall of the Roman Empire etc
>>18289870It was a protestant psyop.
>>18290741It’s less about crop yields and more about sustained socioeconomic complexity. I’m sure the OP photograph is more dependent on quality of life in urban areas than anything else.
>>18290746Tbh we just need to be more willing to admit that we simply don't know why some civilisations pull ahead for given periods, and why others don't. It's probably all just a fluke and we need to count our blessings that we live in the European millennium >I’m sure the OP photograph is more dependent on quality of life in urban areas than anything elseIt's both really, and tracks for both real wages and GDP
>>18289897Not just agriculture but manufactures. Crafts from Al-Andalus, Egypt, China, India, Byzantium and others circulated along the Silk Road from corner to corner of the route.
>>18289870the 900-1300 period was anything but a dark ageif anything, it was the best time for european agriculturenow, if you specifically mean dark age as in early medieval, can't exactly argue with that
>>18289870The "dark" ages were the best time to be alive in Europe.
>>18290787The roman empire had 10 times more silver in circulation as the dark age. It was pretty pathetic, how the superior dark age didn't happen and yet nobody could field a 100k army like the Romans throughout the dark ages. 200 vs 200 men in a bar fight was considered a war.Romans would have laughed at you pathetic losers.
>>18290815For fascist rural retard.For city people it was more fun under Marcus Aurelius.
>>18289870How did they fall off so hard then? Clearly the East had a larger inheritance of antiquity and more robust crop yields/trade networks. Yet by 1500 it seems Europe had significantly overtaken them in gdp per capita. Why with such a head start did it collapse so hard? Did the Steppe Tribes (Mongols, Turks, Manchus, Uzbeks) really obliterate them so hard?
>1000 AD>The Italians are licking Saxon bungholes>They will continue to be simps for the Germans until the renaissance Why were Italians such germanophiles?
>>18291073They didn’t fall off, Europe ascended. Europe was cut off from trade with Asia by the Ottomans. Spain used its silver from the Americas to basically gain a shit ton of gold through arbitrage and develop markets all over the world. Once this multi-continental international network developed then you have the rise of international finance, joint venture companies, all of this was complemented the by intellectual rebirth of the Renaissance and the advent of the printing press. It was just a perfect storm.
>>18291158Renaissance and printing press weren't some black swan phenomena that just came out of nowhere. Agricultural productivity, population, urbanization rates, book production and basically everything else had been growing on an unprecedented rate between 900-1300. Then Black Death killed the surplus population and left the remaining population with more recourses per capita, raised wages etc.
>>18290614How do you explain then the differences in average height? Why were people taller in dark ages if their nutrition was worse?And according the lates Maddison project data the GDP per capital in 2011 dollar were following:Egypt - 956Britain- 1151Iraq- 1307Turkey- 768China- 1225
>>18291249In year 1000
>>18291243Them why didn’t the Turks, Persians, or Chinks come up with it????
>>18290741Northern Europe has fertile but heavy soils that are difficult to farm. Their production shot up with the introduction of heavier ploughs, but the consequence of that was that the single-household farming became impossible since heavy plough = more oxen or horses and the gain in yield wasn't good enough for a single family to be able to sustain those animals.>>18290614Again you have to understand the difference between the 300-600 gap and 3k-40k gap 40k is something like western Europe iirc. 3k is black africa. There's actually quite a lot of tangible difference between these two despite it being heavily affected by financial schemes and for instance real estate prices.Between 300 and 600 it's a difference between 5% and 10% of the population living in towns and doesn't necessarily carry that much information on the median living standards, but rather surplus food existing to carry the urban population.
>>18291340They were top down societies where the politics and qualities of a ruler had greater impact on the development of the society. Europe on the other hand was scattered and had many small polities in a constant competition which encouraged them to try new things. And if something wasn't tolerated in one place it would be given a try elsewhere. At the same time they had a common christian culture and institutions which helped ideas to spread around and interstate trade to flourish. And the institutions developed more in a bottom up way making rulers dependent to negotiate with their subjects.
>18291359Sounds like thirdoid cope
Europe is simply a continuation of legacy affairs; provided externalized ambition as mere subjects the "Dark Ages" was therefor the formation of a new dawn, and the contractual rise of "European" Civilization and unholy submission behest of the masters it is made to serve
>>18290837if anything ancient rome was a dark age by itselfthe romans had to conquer lands to prosperthe greeks simply stayed within their boundaries and created such great thingsjust look at the number of scientists produced in 400 bce vs 100 ad
>>18289870
>>18291073Yes the mongols were no different from the Vikings that destroyed Rome
>>18289870"your numbers are wrong"
>>18291350This is kind of an side but 3k is probably an overestimation - I remember a video of a cocoa beans farmer on the Ivory Coast who makes 7 dollars a day so like 2.5k a year and this he splits between 15 workers. I don't think there is really that many conclusions you can draw from comparing GDP between then and today, because today's economy is simply too outlandish. That said, assuming at least SOME parallels, then the difference of a GDP of 300 and 600 tells of at least SOME differences in quality of life, like how someone living with Italy's 40k GDP per capita today are quite a bit better off than someone living with Romania's 20k. I don't really think we're disagreeing on anything here tho. The Dark Ages are definitely true in that there was a huge economic downturn in Europe, but also we had also already made a recovery by around the 11th century, and by the 14th were outstripping other economies around the world
>>18291893>but also we had also already made a recovery by around the 11th century,>already>5 centuries after the fall of RomeSo Germanics did set back the continent by 5 centuries. Also Ill argue more the 13th century as a turning point.
>>18292163>So Germanics did set back the continent by 5 centuriesYes, absolutely>Also Ill argue more the 13th century as a turning point.Depends on what you mean by turning point, I guess. Societies had mostly recovered in the 1000s and we saw the proper implementation of a new socio-political system. GDP and real wages in Europe don't eclipse other places like China etc until the 14th century at the earliest tho
>>18292163romans did most of the setbackgermanics did like 10% of it, and it's mainly the east germanics that did so
>>18289870How exactly did they measure GDP per capita from a millennia ago on a scale that allowed each of these states to be relative to one another? Why is the x-axis temperature? What is the source even discussing or arguing with this graph? Is there a source? Did you make this yourself?
>>18290415>rebuke this "gdp chart" of ancient polities broYou're brown, aren't you? Like your skin is the color of shit, isn't it?
>>18292969I'm brown in the sense that I'm from southern europe, my skin is fairly pale though, especially in this cold winter
>>18289870lmfao other races need to feel validated so badly that we're just telling them "back then you wuz kangz." And some of you niggers buy it without a second thought. "Muh history books said so," bro look at arabs today and tell me how they could have ever possibly been successful. It's a bunch of bullshit.
