At this point, I think we all know and agree how "complicated" archaeogenetics in the Saarland is (a euphemism for every adjective created by man), and unfortunately, we are hamstrung because we have to rely almost exclusively on Indians for sampling certain sites. There's a recent article that, as usual, didn't present anything truly new or original, and honestly? I don't recommend anyone read it because it's a paid article. (I used "external" means to read it.) But there is an interesting graphic detail comparing published vs. unpublished archaeological sites (see the pic 2) But keep in mind that apparently, there is no differentiation between autosomal DNA and mtDNA in the captions. There is a considerable amount of samples in northern India, including the Sinauli site; perhaps this will end the Indo-Aryan question once and for all. Let's wait and see. Rai says the samples are marginal, but after his petty, animalistic behavior on social media, in addition to his bias, his reliability is almost nil. The map shows a previously unseen location in the Andaman Islands; perhaps genetic data from these inhabitants? There are samples in the south; who knows, maybe we'll finally have AASI samples? Place your bets.
>>18292343Pic 2
>>18292345>>18292343Kino
>>18292343Hopefully the other signal samples or Vedic samples from BA will be released soon>perhaps genetic data from these inhabitants? There are samples in the south; who knows, maybe we'll finally have AASI samples?Nah It's unlikely they were dead when people derived from Iran migrated there and created the favela valley.
>>18292383>other signalSinauli
>>18292343>Sinauli Meme site.>is dated to 2000-1800 BC>Andronovo invented spoked wheels in 2000 BC, which transformed transport wagons into war chariots>the "chariots" of Sanauli do not have spoked wheels but solid ones, which would have been too heavy to be pulled by horses. That they actually were bull-drawn, two-wheeled carts is suggested also by the absence of horse skeletons or horse skulls, of the cheek-pieces used in driving the early horse-drawn chariots, and by the absence of the horse in the imagery of the Sanauli finds, which is dominated by the bull>in fact, 90% of the Sinauli site artifacts are local and distinct from IVC and remaining 10% are from IVC
>>18292343>>18292383This site has remained a mystery for far too long now.
>>18292440
>>18292442Yes, There are still 4 other samples that were not leaked, in addition to the sample with 80% Sintashta. The profiles seem similar to some Indo-Europeans south of Kazakhstan That last major study on India made it very clear that people with up to 51% steppe were present in Pakistan. It wouldn't be impossible to have Vedic people who were practically European in the Bronze Age.
>>18292448Owo What sample are we talking about exactly?
>>18292448Here is your leaked Sinuali sample.
>>18292462
>>18292464
>>18292457ancestry ranges from 0.3% to 46.4% (51% in *Medieval* Pakistan
>>18292448It's incredible how clearly angry Naj was about this leak he always said how the never-released piece of crap would actually be the end of the "Steppe theory"? Then the sample leaked and he went crazy with rage.
>>18292486>>18292448>>18292383What are you guys talking about??
>>18292469
>>18292462>>18292464>>18292469>pictures posted without comment because you don't understand them yourselfSNP count doesn't change very important facts concerning the sample such as how it provides evidence for a certain chronology of the migration.The approximately 80% Sintashta measurement is still possible despite low SNPs, but nobody will ever learn if that admixture ratio is an outlier if they continue to withhold samples from the public.>>18292488picrel
>>18292483Read the x-axis. y-axis is lactase persistence
>>18292488In short, there's a site in northern India called Sinauli, quite famous for its archaeological material, and its context has been theorized quite a bit. Clearly, the Indians and the retarded Brazilian above, who is, as always, being ignored by everyone, use this as counter-evidence of the Aryan invasion. But then a user leaked a sample from this site with 81% steppe. For a long time, they said it was fake, but then one of the authors of the OP's study publicly threatened the user who leaked it and confirmed the existence of this sample, clearly posing a problem for theories of indigenous Aryans. SeeSo, with that, the arguments should have been changed, stating that the sample was a woman (even without any evidence of this besides MTdna), that the sample has low quality, etc., but the problem with the latter is that although low quality is a problem, it doesn't change the fact that there are people with 81% steppe in Sinai, and there's another problem with that: The AADR classifies samples into 4 contamination categories:
>>18292516>>18292488>>18292502In other words, this already proves how retarded people are having personal problems with this sample, and this Brazilian has no idea what he's barking at. Being refuted every week is no joke... see how the retarded person steals my images from desuarchive.org and makes retarded collages. And another thing: Samples with less than 30% coverage offer some benefit. It is possible to extract some useful information from them; the PCA positioning should be approximately in the correct area, even for samples with 10% coverage, but the calculations will be incorrect. In qpAdm, the situation is different, although it is much more relevant.
>>18292502>>18292516>>18292519Thank you guys
>>18292502>>18292516>>18292519Cope. Of the four Sinauli samples that Niraj Raj posted when talking about the 80% Sintashta in India (although it was the Andronovo who migrated south), two of them are "F" and "U". How do we know that this means Female and Unknown? Easy. Men (XY) transmit their Y-DNA to their sons, but not daughters. While women (XX) transmit their Mt-DNA to both sons and daughters. Of all the samples in the photo, the only one that has both is the second Nitrianska Blatné Slovenia_EBA and it because this marked as (M)ale since it has R1(?). It's easier to find out if someone is male than female by finding the Y-DNA first, since women don't have it, but for some reason the two Sinauli are marked as (U)nknown even without knowing their Y-DNA and the others as (F)emale even without knowing their Mt and Y-DNA.
>>18292502You all ignore the fact that Dr. Rai literally LIED. I watched his speech and he said that there were no steps on those sites, but it turns out there were. I would ignore this guy he worships Cuban flying gods.
>>18292527Yeah, the guy is clearly not trustworthy. This proves if he's in charge of important samples that inform us about the Aryan invasion the he will do what he can to avoid releasing them. It's the most obvious example of foul play in archaeogenetics.
Look how the imbecile simply conceded the argument and lost the discussion. >cope With that, we end here. I neither respond nor read what she says. And you know what's even more idiotic about all this? The total lack of knowledge in the genetic field... we're going to refute the beast of the jungle for the 4th time this month. **Even if*** it is mediated by women, (it isn't) we know that the steppe migration occurred at that time. That's undeniable. 1/2The copper hoard/OCP ended around 1500 BC. The Sinauli tomb has NO *OFFICIAL DATATING* Indian blogs are not arguments, there are retarded dates up to 4000 BC but there are Antenna swords found across the wider region, and they are usually dated between about 1500 – 1000 BC!!! suggesting that the Sinauli site is more likely to be at the more recent end of the radiocarbon date range. There is no reason to argue an Indian origin for these swords If there is steppe DNA, this implies that steppe people were migrating earlier than we thought. Again, how would you explain steppe DNA in an OCP burial?Vageesh's article literally states that the main male-mediated migration occurred in the second millennium BC. If the Sinauli chariot has DNA from the Indian steppe, then this confirms that the migration occurred at least until 1900 BC, and all evidence points to a male migration.
>>182925412/2The photograph that exterminates the Brazilian and her Indian stepdaddySinauli samples has better quality than Rakhigarhi in terms of SNPs analyzed, which contradicts the quality issue justification for not releasing the data. Although there's uncertainty about the status and quality of the other five Sinauli samples since information about them hasn't been released yet, the Steppe-influenced sample provides concrete evidence of Steppe presence in the Indian subcontinent during the late Harappan phase. It's likely that the researchers are withholding the samples not just because of the information we know now, but also due to other more crucial information that hasn't been leaked yet.1) People don't know if the Steppe sample is from a woman. 2) At least one of the Sinauli samples has ***better*** quality than the Rakhigarhi sample (in terms of the SNPs analyzed). 3) Why? They can't (or shouldn't falsely) cite quality problems to avoid releasing the data. 4) We don't know the status (and quality) of the other five Sinauli samples. 5) The sample with strong Steppe influence from Sinauli provides concrete evidence of Steppe presence in the Indian subcontinent during the late Harappan phase. 6) Sinauli has different levels of excavation and therefore different dates. A range, such as 1200-1500 BC, is plausible. 7) It is unknown whether the person with DNA from the steppe was male or female. 8) There's a remarkable moment in the video where Koenraad Elst (proponent of the Out of India Theory) asks Niraj if the most recent ancient DNA shows that the Aryans originated in India, and Niraj confirms the opposite – leaving Koenraad speechless. Watch ithttps://youtu.be/Pp1BPTWlHQY?si=Q3TEKIQSW2Iwofi1.
>>18292525Another thing, I will try to imply that an 80% Sintashta existed in India, regardless of whether they were male or female. Two Andronovos can still continue produce Andronovo children, but a single generation in which the majority of Andronovo man (80%) has children with a local woman without Andronovo (0%) is enough for the calculation to be immediate: 0.5 x 80% = 40% from the paternal side and 0.5 x 0% = 0% from the maternal side, totaling 40%. The problem? North Indians only have 30% Steppe. Their Andronovo ancestors could only have been 60%, which is something you yourself know and posted from:https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aat7487>Using data from ancient individuals from the Swat Valley of northernmost South Asia, we show that Steppe ancestry then integrated further south in the first half of the second millennium BCE, contributing up to 30% of the ancestry of modern groups in South Asia>It is likely, based on our analysis, that the population that contributed genetic material to South Asia was (roughly) ~60% Yamnaya, ~30% European farmer-like ancestry, and ~10% Central Steppe hunter-gatherer ancestryBut again, what's the problem with that? A person inherits 50/50 from their father and mother. You only have +50% Steppe if your paternal lineage is predominantly Andronovo and you have some maternal Andronovo, without it, it's -50%. If the Andronovo who arrived in South Asia were 60% so had +40% Non-Steppe European DNA which was replaced by Iranian and South Asian DNA in their maternal lineage, they were basically whiter Pakistanis/Northern Indians, not Nordics, lol.
>>18292574>>18292502I just got here and there are already people dilating? kek hey retarded amateurs men have MTdna kek by the way, Reich and his team theorized that the mixing stopped around 100 AD. As far as I remember.
>>18292575
>>18292587
>>18292590
>>18292596
>>18292598
>>18292599
>>18292576>Reich and his team theorized that the mixing stopped around 100 AD. As far as I remember.I'm not sure what you're talking about, but the same team revealed something interesting: the source of steppe ancestry in India was quite homogeneous, so to speak, practically like European and steppe populations. See and I hadn't seen the entire image of this print https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1https://archive.vn/2020.01.31-162125/https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/steppe-migration-to-india-was-between-3500-4000-years-ago-david-reich/articleshow/71556277.cmsVedics looked like steppe_MLBA
>>18292605
>>18292606>60% aryan european and 30% EEF europeanKek literal eurodudes in Pooper lands>You, Indra, are the destroyer of all cities, the killer of the dasyu, the prosperous man, the Lord of Heaven. (8.87.6)>The god who destroyed the dasyu and protected the Aryan Color (Aryavarna). (3.34.9)
>>18292606In other words, since 2019 it has been known what the proto-Vedics were like, so why does this make people so angry here?
>>18292606>the source of steppe ancestry in India was quite homogeneous, so to speak, practically like European and steppe populations.Pretty interesting. Basically a lost branch of Europeans.>>18292621Because the studies had to say that part quietly. Nobody bothers to read this stuff closely on Twitter and 4chan.
>>18292519>>18292516Why do you think this guy knows anything?
>>18292621>so why does this make people so angry here?The reasons are various. This Brazilian in question is due to some kind of feud, perhaps motivated by envy? trauma? I think the first option where anything related to Europeans, he must necessarily have a mental breakdown and then desperately prove how "irrelevant", "false" "useless" it is. Notice how she projects this onto Indo-European people particularly.
>>18292628Yes, it's interesting to note that there are samples in Kashkarchi as recent as 1000 BC and practically pure steppe_MLBA
>>18292606>and I hadn't seen the entire image of this printI wanted to correct myself: I'm saying that the image he posted here... >>18292576I hadn't seen it from this angle; they looked like steppe_MLBA (Europeans).
>>18292606They had 30% European farmer-like ancestry and 10% Central Steppe hunter-gatherer ancestry (the 40% from the maternal side) before entering South Asia, retard. How do I also know this? If there were 80% Sintashta in India and there were women with them as Niraj Raj implied, the Indian Steppe should be 50% like some groups in South and Asia (50% from Andronovo males and 10% from Andronovo females). But Indians are only 30% Aryan Face without any EEF and Central Asian Hunter-Gatherer Steppe ancestry despite the fact that supposedly existed Andronovo women in India for explain 80% Andronovo men exists. Indians no longer have more than 30% Steppe because Andronovo have become incels in India, lol.Attempting to Europeanize the Vedics through males is a genetic dead end, as the paternal lineage will always be subtracted by 0.5, regardless of whether it's 80% Sintashta, it will drop to 40% and won't reach 50% autosomal if there are no Andronovo females.
>>18292651I'll ask ChatGPT to give a better explanation than mine to your samefaggotry circlejerk:>Central contradiction (80% Andronovo) — For an 80% Andronovo population to exist in India in any autosomal sense, it would be mathematically mandatory to have Andronovo women in numbers comparable to men, because without them the inheritance is automatically halved in the first generation. The hypothesis itself demands what it cannot demonstrate>Absence of Andronovo female DNA — Genetic data show a strong paternal bias of Steppe (Y-DNA) and the absence of an equivalent Andronovo female component (mtDNA and autosomes), which directly contradicts the idea of predominantly Andronovo settlements in India. If these women had existed en masse, their genetic signal would be inevitable>Mathematical limit of inheritance — Even with 80% Sintashta men, crossing with local women, the maximum possible would already fall to ~40% Steppe in the next generation, and would continue to decrease with new mixtures. Without constant replacement of Andronovo women, there is no genetic pathway to maintain or increase this value>The actual observed value (~30%) — The ~25–30% of Steppe in Indo-Aryan populations fits perfectly into a model of male migration + local miscegenation, and not into a scenario of a demographically dominant andronovo colony. This number, far from supporting the 80%, in practice refutes it>Conclusion — Therefore, the narrative of “80% Andronovo in India” is internally inconsistent: it requires andronovo women on a large scale, but at the same time Indian genetics does not show this female component. The contradiction is not interpretative or ideological, it is structural and mathematical
>>18292606>60% This is basically the same amount of Steppe as Andronovo and Sintashta.
>>18292703NTA, but what exactly was the average steppe number of Andronov Did it really have as much as 60%?>>18292345>>18292343That's good, but the Vedic people didn't go very far south, as confirmed by genetics.
/his/scientist anons, I don't understand the implications of this study. It's been a belief that IVC/Harappan (along indus river) and neolithic sites like Burzuhama (kashmir and swat) were populated by pre-vedic settlers, with a genetic mix of Iranian neolithic zagros and AASI hunter-gatherer. With the decline of IVC due to climate change, many settlers dispersed south, and the later arrival of the aryans (andronovo and sintashta) steppe pastorals from central asians, brought Vedic traditions and diffused into the population of the remaining IV civilisation; with a mix of violence (leaning into Aryan Invasion) and multi-wave integration (leaning into Aryan Migration).Does this recent study challenge this?
>>18292707It's obvious Andronovo and Sintashta had a bit more Steppe than modern Eurodeans (a difference of 60% to 55% as in Ireland) and 30/40% FarmoidsAccording to this>>18292606>>18292502 the Vedic people were quite European anyway.
>>18292715Oh boah i see. I don't understand very well, but it seems that the European Aryans were bell beakers, right? They were like cousins of these guys from Central Asia, etc.? These Russian names are awful.
>>18292720>but it seems that the European Aryans were bell beakers, right?It depends. Not directly; we have other cultures like Tumulus, Unetice, La Tène, etc., etc., which would be the more direct ancestors.>They were like cousins of these guys from Central AsiaYes, Central Asia and places as far away as Mongolia and India, to a certain extent, were white hunters of brown people. Look how close a guy from Brittany was to an Andronovo from various subgroups They were like cousins of these guys from Central Asia, etc.? These Russian names are awful.
>>18292712As the OP said, the article itself is useless, nothing new, just some new unpublished sample sites.
>>18292728>BrittanyIreland in fact
>>18292728The smaller the number (chores?), the closer? Is that it? Are these guys just Europeans who left Europe?
>>18292737Yes, They looked white, spoke white, acted white, and like the Iberian descendants did, they caused so many Dravidian and Asiatic wombs to burst open in the Iron Age that the Germanic brethren became extinct and controlled their libido. Make asia White again
>>18292606When did the mixing occur? Do we already know this? Perhaps at the beginning of the Iron Age? Some Sakas were more than half European, although many were Hapas.
>>18292606>Central Steppe Hunter GathererNever heard of that one. Were they related to BMAC?
>>18292343So this literally happened????
>>18292805That's more or less the same thing as WSHG. Central Steppe Hunter Gatherer are ~80% ANE, 6-10% ANA, the rest EHG.Out of their ~10% CSHG ancestry, as much as 1% could be ANA.Not that weird when you consider the trace admixtures of modern Scandinavians and Baltics.
This 10% CSHG probably has a more profound effect on the PCA than anything. It increases FST distance, but Sintashta were otherwise closely related to other Corded Ware peoples.
>>18292440>war chariotsSintashta's chariots were useless for war. A new study came out confirming the average nave length of Sintashta vehicles to be ~ 26 cm, which is still 9 cm lower than the minimum 34 cm. There is no evidence of any siderails on Sintashta vehicles, and even a real-life-test on it resulted in a chariot-fall, where the dude almost broke his neck.>At Sintashta, the wheel tracks and their position relative to the walls of the tomb chamber limited the dimensions of the naves, hence the stability of the vehicle. Ancient naves were symmetrical, the part outside the spokes of equal length to that inside. Allowing enough room for the end of the axle arm and linch pin on the outer side of the nave and for a short spacer on the inner side of the nave end to keep it from rubbing on the body of the vehicle, we are left with no more than 20 cm for the entire length of the nave. The shortest ancient nave of which we know on a two- wheeler is 34 cm in length, and the great majority are 40-45 cm. The long naves of ancient two-wheelers were required by the material used: wooden naves revolving on wooden axles cannot fit tightly, as recent metal ones do. The short, hence loosely fitting nave will have a tendency to wobble, and it was in order to reduce this that the nave was lengthened. A wobbling nave will soon damage all elements of the wheel and put all parts of the vehicle under stress. If the vehicle should hit a boulder or a tree stump, the wheel rim would lose its verticality and, so close to the side of the body, could damage that as well as itself. It is from the wheel-track measurements and the dimensions and positions of the wheels alone that we may legitimately draw conclusions and these are alone sufficient to establish that the Sintashta-Petrovka vehicles would not be manoeuvrable enough for use either in warfare or in racing
>>18292843>Sintashta's chariots were useless for war.Incredibly useful actually. Scouts, intel, and logistics win wars.Being more mobile than your enemy is a great advantage.
>>18292343Release the AASI files you fucking cowards
>>18292846Cope.
>>18293199I am a big retard, therefore sintashtash were also big retards.
