Novus Ordo Priest:>LOOOOOOOK>in the New Mass the layman is involved in the mass because they participate in the vernacular and they get to yell the readings and the our father!!!!>thanks to these innovations well renew their faith!!!Trad Layman:>chants “Asperges Me” antiphon >can silently pray the Confiteor>responds aloud to the priest 4 more times >chants the Kyrie Eleison 9 times instead of 6 at the novus ordo>chants the Gloria>chants the Nicene Creed>chants the Preface responses>chants Sanctus >responds to the our Father >chants Agnus Dei>prays another Confiteor aloud toward the end of mass>prays that he’s not worthy 3 times>takes Eucharist on the tongue>genuflects dozens more times than novus ordo priests themselves>his “Et Cum Spiritu Tuo” is immaculate >prays to his Mother after massThese modernists can’t be more wrong and gay
By what standard do you question the pope?
Many question Paul lV’s Pastoral guidance and liturgical reforms. Not his papacy (which is valid), but the decisions he took. Many documents in Vatican 2 and the Liturgical Reforms of the NO are theologically and essentially different from the perennial teachings of past Pope’s Encyclicals, Ecumenical Councils and Teachings of the Doctors of the Church.In addition to this, The Vicar of Rome’s main role is to safeguard the sacred tradition handed down by the Apostles, which developed organically over 1500 years. This sacred tradition is the TLM and any other Apostolic Liturgical Rite, which all developed in that same fashion; ORGANICALLY. Hence, Paul lV made drastic changes to the Roman Rite with 5 years of preparation. A Rite which took 1500 years to fully develop. Not wise at all, and it should be pointed out.To conclude, the Church’s perennial teaching (Papal Encyclicals, Ecumenical And Doctrinal Councils, and Its Saints) seem to show continuity (they almost never contradict each other in their dogmatic and liturgical claims), yet in the 60s The Catholic Church of Old, is abandoned and treated as “Antiquity”, but Vatican 2 (A pastoral Council) is seen as “Groundbreaking” and “Revolutionary”. Mother Church never functioned in this way, if something is true is true 2000, 1000 or 500 years ago it is also true today, regardless of the times we live in.And so the Church and Her Divinely inspired authority this is my Standard
Don’t be a heretic
>>18343441>the Church and Her Divinely inspired authority this is my StandardThe pope is the church, how do you question him? Who are you to question the church?
>>18343367Schola bro here. In some ways, becoming a priest would feel like a step down from singing all of the propers every week.
>>18343369It's not that complicated. I mean, I'm not smart enough to say it all exactly correctly, but basically, you have to take all of the popes as well as the extraordinary magisterium into account. Faith cannot be irrational. Saving souls is more important that following the law. blah blah blah.
>>18343447It's fine, bro. We owe the pope our prayers and love, but he's clearly being very gay.
>>18343447The Pope is the Church? Are you dumb bro?Hyperpapalism at its peak. Tertullian would be proud of you buddy.
>>18343496I think he just means the Pope is infallible.As Catholics believe the Pope is connected to God
>>18343367Cope. Stop trying to cling onto a dead past. The essence of the Mass is always still the same (Eucharist). The form and visuals of the Mass will always be secondary attributes that can change.
>>18343455>you have to take all of the popes as well as the extraordinary magisterium into accountHow does your private interpretation of the magisterium have more authority than the pope?
>>18343496The Pope is the the hierarchical leader of the visible Church, and acts of behalf of Christ. But the college of Bishops entirely (including the Pope) has the same level of authority. Pope simply just has the final say as the elected official. Pope doesn't mean shit outside of ecclesial matters.
>>18343506Back off, I'll take you onHeadstrong to take on anyoneI know that you are wrongAnd this is not where you belongBasically, it's fine, bro.
>>18343501Look bro I know you like the NO it’s ok, you’re a fruit bowl
>Protestants are wrong for saying divine truth is more important than the pope>also I say divine truth is more important than the popeAnd so continues the Roman circus
>>18343521I know that this anon is wrong. I'm guessing, and I know that my guess is right. the SSPX is the most based thig to exist in our lifetime.
>>18343506If the laity, the priests and the magisterium can’t agree on the proper interpretation of Papal Encyclicals and Church councils, then you prove my point.The Post Conciliar Popes and Church is borderline Protestant, Confused and not promoting the objective truth
>>18343518Fighting over a liturgical rites makes you a fag. If you don't think a Universal God can't be worshipped in particular ways, then I feel sorry for you. The Eucharist and the flowing forms of the real presence of Christ is available to everyone, not just chuds falling asleep in the pews every Sunday at an empty church.
>>18343523Yikes>>18343524>everything I don’t like is Luther
>>18343532If fighting over liturgical rites makes you a fag, than you’re saying your beloved Paul lV is a fag Nice one bro
>>18343532Never was about liturgy. Modern is gay. Our priest dress cool. Our women wear veils. Traditional spirituality is felt deeply. It passes the smell test.
>>18343537Sancta Maria, co-redemptrix et mediatrix omnium gratiarum, ora pro nobis.Sedes sapientiae, ora pro nobis.
>>18343543Your "traditional spirituality" is all just a visible show. It's no deeper than new age spirituality. It's just a costume you put on. Notice how the only things you are about are the clothing of the priests and women lmao.
>>18343532Ofc he can be worshipped in different ways, that’s why we have over 20 different ritesWhat makes these rites valid is that they grew organically since the apostles and they all have similar elements, Eucharist on the tongue, sacred language, sacred (AND NOT MODERN) chant, clear separation between laity and clergy. Heaven on Earth because of the Eucharist, yes. But this now means have to treat the Eucharist in a divine and reverent manner. ALL OF THE APOSTOLIC RITES HAVE THIS IN COMMON, THEY HONOR THE EUCHARIST IN A SOLEMN, SACRED AND HUMBLE MANNER.The NO just says, NO THANK YOUIF “mass can be celebrated in different ways” and “ whatever makes people feel close to God goes” then why don’t we have mosh parties before the Eucharist, or play house music or start focusing on anything other than THE HOLY AND BLOODLESS SACRIFICE TAKING PLACE BEFORE OUR VERY EYES IN HUMILITY AND MEDITATION This guy is telling me to live and let live, that kind of talk isn’t gonna lead anyone to heaven let me tellShmuck
>>18343555Saying stuff like that is not Catholic, at all and you are literally telling all of the Popes and Saints of the past are stupid and wrong for the traditions they kept
>>18343562Its not saying their traditions were wrong, Its saying it was THEIR particular traditions, and traditions always change. Clinging to tradition for tradition sake, or without thought, leads you nowhere. Yes, I agree with gradual changes that keep in line with the Spirit of the past, but the Spirit is unbounded and far ahead of us. We can only strive to follow it to the true Kingdom.
>>18343441>Many documents in Vatican 2 and the Liturgical Reforms of the NO are theologically and essentially different from the perennial teachings of past Pope’s Encyclicals, Ecumenical Councils and Teachings of the Doctors of the Church.How about you support your statement by showing all the instances in which Vatican 2 contradict earlier dogmatic teachings.As far as I know, there's no dogma regarding how the mass must be done. Therefore, there's no contradiction in the church carrying on a change in the liturgy.
>>18343367Ocular communion was common much before in medieval than it was in modern times,During the medieval (even in Sarum) mass only a few worthy ones (usually elderly and devout monks) were allowed to take communion on the tongue, rest were expected to get indulgence of the mass from observing.That is why Latin Mass developed elevation, so that all the congregation can look at the consecrated host without obstruction and ocularly and in spirit receive Christ.Novus Ordo just took this idea and repurposed it, now the ocular communion is not a substition for the physical communion but a way to make the communion more I clusive to the non-confirmed Christians (protestants, orthodox, etc.).
>>18343548If Mary is your redeemer and your mediator, you will certainly be damned. Your idols can’t save you
>>18343575Unitatis Redintegratio (On Ecumenism)Contradicts:Etsi Multa - Pope Pius IX [25]Mortalium Animos - Pope Pius XI [10]Unam Sanctum - Pope Boniface VIII [1]Decrees:- Claims the true Universal Catholic Church is to be longed for [2]- Church is not fully “Catholic” as a result of division [4]- Claims eastern orthodox and protestants build up the Church of God [3] & [15]- Life of grace can exist outside the Catholic Church [2]Orientalium Ecclesiarum (On Eastern Catholic Churches)Contradicts- Lateran Council IV [3.2]- Commissum Divinitus - Pope Pius XI [11]Decrees- Penance, Holy Eucharist, anointing of the sick can be given from Eastern Orthodox who are separated from the catholic church [27]Gravissimum Educationis (On Christian Education)Contradicts- Divini Illius Magistri - Pope Pius XI [65]- Ubi Primum - Pope Leo XII [12]Decrees- As children grow older, they should receive sex education of a positive and prudent kind [1]- Everyone has the right to be educated according to their own sex, race, moral and religious principles and traditions in all schools [7]Lumen Gentium (Dogmatic Constitution of the Church)Contradicts- Unam Sanctam - Pope Boniface VIII [2]- Satis Cognitum - Pope Leo XIII [14-15]- Summo Iugiter Studio - Pope Gregory XVI [6]- Vatican I - On Revelation [1]- Amantissimus - Pope Pius IX [3]- Charitas - Pope Pius VI[32]- Vocavit Nos - Pope Pius IIDecrees- The order of Bishops is also the subject of supreme and full power over the universal church if its in communion with its head [22]- Muslims worship the God of Abraham/Muslims will be saved/held in esteem/Worship the one true God [16]- The Church is joined with those who do not profess the faith and participate in the communion of St Peter [15]
>>18343575Dignitatis Humanae (Declaration of Religious Liberty)Contradicts- Syllabus of Errors - Pope Pius IX [55-77-78]- Libertas - Pope Leo XIII [21]- Vehementer Nos - Pope Pius X [3]- Mirari Vos - Pope Gregory XVI [15]Decrees- No one should be forced to act against their conscious in religious matters [2]- The state exceeds its authority if it directs in religious matters [3]- Religious communities are entitled to teach and witness to their faith publicly in speech and writing without hindrance [4]Ad Gentes (Decree on Missionary Activity)Contradicts- Council of Florence - Session 8 - Bull of Union with the Armenians [16]Decrees- The Church possesses totally and fully the means of salvation, but it neither always nor at once can put them all together in operation/insufficient for salvation [6]- There are 2 billion people who have not heard the gospel message - of these people - some adhere to one of the great religions [10]- Catholic should work with protestants and other sects in their missionary work[29]Sacrosanctum Concilium (Constitution on Sacred Liturgy)Contradicts- Pascendi Dominici Gregris - Pope Pius X [26]- Quo PrimumDecrees- Revisions: The rites of adult baptism, infant baptism, confirmation, the rights and formulas of penance, different kinds of ordination, celebrating marriage, sacramentals, consecration of virgins, liturgical year, ecclesiastical canons, [63b-128]- Allows for the gifts of minds and hearts possessed by various peoples and allows it into the liturgy itself [37]- The local church authority can decide which elements from the traditions of particular peoples can be brought into divine worship [40.1]- Allowing other music and instruments to be brought into the liturgy [120]
>>18343575Nostra Aetate (Decree on Non-Christian Religions)Contradicts:- Council of Florence - Session 19 - Union between the council and the Greeks - [2]- Council of Vienne [25]- A Quo Primum - Pope Benedict XIV [4]- Mortalium Animos - Pope Pius XI [2]- Commentary on John 4:22 - St Thomas Aquinas- Commentary on John 4:22 - Father Cornelius LapideDecrees:- Condemns any kind of discrimination on religions [5]- Looks upon muslims with respect/muslims worship the one god just as Abraham did [3]- Jews remain very dear to God despite rejecting the Gospel [4]- Buddhism through it’s methods can reach the highest illumination [2]- Hinduism explores the divine mystery / Through various forms of ascetical life, deep meditation, and taking refuge in God, hindu’s reach liberation from the distresses of life [2]Gaudium et Spes (Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the modern world)Contradicts- Casti Connubii - Pope Pius XI [54]Decrees- Christ’s incarnation united himself with each man [22]- Those who are learned in the sciences can be of considerable service to marriage and family if they collaborate on shedding light which favor the virtuous control of procreation [52]- Methods to help couples regulate the number of children and information on scientific advances should be given [87]- All things on earth should be related to them as their center and their crown [12]- Humanae Vitae - Pope Paul VI [16]Can u name any of these novel teachings that follow the continuity of the Catholic Church organically?
>>18343612>>18343615Yes, all popes and councils have erred and contradicted each other. Luther was right
>>18343555Don't listen to him. You will easily be able to tell that we're right if you try.
>>18343593Most anons can't read. It's not their fault. It's the job of the inquisition to make sure peasants don't believe harmful stuff.
>>18343618Luther would shoot himself if he saw what liberalizing religion led to.
>>18343617I'll take my time checking all your claims. But let me just point out that encyclicals and commentaries by church fathers are not dogmatic. They're individual mortals prone to being wrong. Councils contradicting each other, on the other hand, is very severe and would imply that the church is false.I don't know why you are so obsessed with things evolving organically. If you accept the divine inspiration of the church, then you should also accept that all the "new teachings" adopted in Vatican 2 are also divinely inspired. Or are you implying that god abandoned his church?
>>18343367The Petrine Office is the fulcrum around which the Church turns. Arguably the Post-Conciliar Church is more validly Catholic than some of the Church in the bad old days when we'd have antipopes or multiple Popes at once.That the post-Vatican 2 Church is wrong about some things doesn't invalidate it. Again, look to history; the Church has screwed up before in various ways. The post-Vatican 2 Church will be put to right by the saints, just like the Church has been over and over throughout history.
>>18343762God gave us the sense to tell when something is clearly, clearly gay.>organicallylol, lmao, rofl evenCommunists obviously made things gay on purpose. As a child, with no ability or help to understand these things, I still KNEW everything was gay.I haven't the mind to deal with these documents, but every time I look into something, my guesses always end up being right. Shits gay, bro. SSPX 4 lyfe.
>>18343772I agree that OP overstated things and came too close to sedevecantism.SSPX for life.
>>18343782Very interesting what the SSPX is up to these days. Their announcement of consecration of bishops seems to have been designed to force Rome's hand, and now the DDF is talking about maybe putting out a formal document defining what it means to "assent to Vatican 2". Which would be monumental because no such set of guidelines has existed for 60 years.
>>18343762Brother, if out of all the examples listed above, there is only a SINGLE contradiction with past Ecumenical Councils, your position falls apart.Do the research, you will see that, in whatever way you want to interpret V2 there is blatant misrepresentation of the faith (comparing it to previous councils). And this doesn’t even include the horrible decisions made on the Liturgy.The position that Vatican 2 promotes teaching counter to Catholic dogma makes sense, why? Because it is a pastoral council. Pope Paul VI promulgated Dignitatis humanae on 7 December 1965, and the next day he closed the Second Vatican Council and stated: “The magisterium of the Church did not wish to pronounce itself under the form of extraordinary dogmatic pronouncements” [footnote: Pope Paul VI, Discourse closing Vatican II, 7 December 1965]. This effectively hamstrung the Council. It’s true that theological statements are made throughout the Conciliar documents. Yet the Council made no extraordinary dogmatic pronouncements. Nothing binding came from Vatican II. Paul VI clarified this a little over one month later when he explained: “In view of the pastoral nature of the Council, it has avoided proclaiming in an extraordinary manner any dogma carrying the mark of infallibility” [footnote: Pope Paul VI, Audience of 12 January 1966]. By a divine miracle, the pope of Vatican II taught that Vatican II contained no extraordinary dogma and did not carry the mark of infallibility — meaning the documents of Vatican II are fallible and may contain error. Unlike the previous twenty ecumenical councils, the pope placed an asterisk next to Vatican II.
Just like the Pharisees misled Israel in their “guidance”, in their actions and in their laws which superseded their authority, what did Christ say? “They (the Pharisees) sit on the seat of Moses do what they say, but not what they do.” Matthew 23Even when the Pharisees (The divinely inspired teaching authority, who sit on Moses’ seat) made mistakes in guiding the people of God, Christ reminds us they are still in a position of Authority. And the same thing applies for the post Conciliar Church.Vatican 2’s pastoral guidance (which is not infallible, which are not extraordinary dogmatic pronouncements as Paul lV said) contradicts previous Councils and dogma DECLARED INFALLIBLY. This is a big problem, which needs to be addressed.Just as the BC Israelites, we are facing bad guidance by the magisterium, but because the Church has declared infallibly irrevocable truths, we criticize this fallible and pastoral Council based on the Infallible Teachings which are perpetually true.This is a complex issue brother, most of us who hold on to this position are not Sedevacantists, we always have a Spirit of submission to Rome. But this doesn’t mean cannot criticize their pastoral decisions, which, as the stats show, have been bearing bad fruit.St Pius X Ora pro nobis
>>18343772Just to clarify, if Vatican 2 is wrong in some of its Theological Statements, it isn’t just a mistake. It proves Vatican 2 is not infallible and contains errors.
I'm not joining until you guys get your shit together. I'll know when that happens when you stop electing politically correct Popes.
>>18343900One of the first apostles was Judas. Christ has always allowed wicked agents in the church. What you're asking for is counter to reality and divine will. The current king is retarded. Your only job is to bend the knee.
>>18343632Liberal ideas didn’t even exist when Luther was alive
>>18343925Protestantism and Westphalian sovereignty are liberalism par excellence.
>>18343455>Believing what you're told without question cannot be irrational.Most retarded statement of the decade.
>>18343955I can only hope others here can read better than you.
>>18343955The writer here takes my response out of context. I was responding to how you can question a pope. Ironically, this poster then accuses me of blind faith.
>>18343367The Novus Ordo is not catholic because that means universal, but if I go to a Catholic church in a different country it'll be different from my usual service and I'll have no idea what they're saying. The NO is atomising and isolating.
>>18343988Unlike the universal experience if not being able to speak Latin, that unifies all lay believers in incomprehension.
>>18344003Latin is not a difficult language to pick up most of, and until V2 most Western schools taught Latin. My dad learnt it at an Australian public school in the '70s. Most Catholics already understand the most common Latin phrases. The strongest argument for the vernacular comes with the readings, the rest of the service is best in Latin.
>>18344031Most catholics and new converts aren't from Europe. I doubt there's any formal education of latin in Latin America or in Africa. In these places too I doubt the people even try to understand what the phrases mean and just go through the motions.
>>18343867orly>>18343988Yes, Latin as a universal language of the canon which transcends national borders has defined the western church for more than a thousand years.Stepping away from that inheritance, towards the separation and confusion of tongues, is an error. I heard recently that the Vatican is abandoning the use of Latin in drafting internal documents. All this means is the original draft would *have* to privilege a particular national dialect like English, or Italian, or what have you and only then translated into various other languages.Latin being "dead" in the secular world ironically means that it's perfect for the church to use spiritually. Because it's not subordinating one contemporary secular language, and by extension a nation, to another contemporary secular nation and language. This creates an internal power dynamic between nations which has no place in a universal church.Spanish and English speakers, Christians of all different languages broadly speaking, should be worshipping together. Not separated between different services or national churches which cater to their particular personal identities.If there's a parish in a town with multiple ethnicities among the faithful, splitting them up in worship according to their language is very counterproductive spiritually, even if it hypothetically makes certain content more available to the intellect. The mass is *not* an intellectual exercise.That's what God did to men as a punishment at Babel, and it's something that should be reconciled in the church rather than repeated. The gift of tongues is a sign of this.>>18344003>unifies all lay believers in incomprehensionAnd that's a good thing, too.You're wrong about the ability of Africans to understand the gospel and tenets of faith. In fact, you probably think the Catholic church doesn't bother to learn their languages, in order to properly communicate what worship is and entails.
>>18344201> That's what God did to men as a punishment at BabelBro, the story is about scattering them because they shared a unified language. Forcing the liturgy to be in Latin (which isn't even the language of Jesus) only has any reality because of the Churches growth within the Roman Empire. While history unfolded in that way, it was entirely a historical possibility that the Church could have grew more in a different region in a different language and become what Rome is now to the Church. Why isn't the Church stuff in Greek when most of the NT was written in it?
>>18343952What does the word liberal mean in your mind?
>>18344201>>18344258The church should use the local vernacular language in worship, because what is spoken is meaningless if not understood. 1 Corinthians 14 “I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all; however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.” Scripture is clear that meaningless speech is worthless, Christianity is not a “sacred tongue” religion. And it is proper for there to be several national churches, since the Church may be distributed throughout the world, but its members do not cease to be American or Chinese, the universal Church is mystical only, and there is no merit for elders in America to try to govern affairs in China which are distant and foreign to them. There is no more merit for a one world church than a one world government. Being united in incomprehension means being united in false worship, John 4:21-24 “Jesus said to her, ‘Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
>>18344258>>18344258>because they shared a unified languageNo, that's not the reason.The division of tongues was not the reason, but a solution to the problem of man's collective hubris.>history unfolded in that way, it was entirely a historical possibility that the Church could have grew more in a different region in a different language But it simply could not have been another way.God chose the Romans to crucify Jesus, and he forgave them.Likewise, he chose disciples for all nations. To bring them all into his fold.>>18344386It's not meaningless.You simply do not understand.Hearing without understanding, as Jesus said.Use of the spoken word in liturgy *is* actually sacred.>it is proper for there to be several national churchso one for the gentiles and one for the jews it is, for youin fact, why stop therea church for every gentile instead of one fold again, participation in worship is not predicated on intellectual abilitythat is why those who partially understand and those who have attained the fullness are still together in one bodyknowledge isn't given to all in the church, nor wisdom
How many times did Jesus disciples not understand what he was telling them at first?Wisdom and knowledge, though given only to specific members of the body, produce spiritual benefits that are made available to the whole body through the precious blood of Christ. If you were to say that knowledge, gnosis in the Greek, were a prerequisite to belonging in the church you would be a crypto-Gnostic.The bible itself testifies that knowledge is a charismatic gift of the Holy Spirit. That it isn't given to everyone, but to certain of those who are most naturally disposed to the final ends, that gift being appropriate to them.While knowledge is distinguished from wisdom, or sophia. And both are associated in the text with certain offices.
>>18343367How can a non-dogmatic council have dogmatic constitutions?
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.Paul is witnessing to the church militant, knowing in part and veiled, and the church triumphant, which has the beautific vision revealed to the bride.Knowledge is edifying, all the charismatic gifts are. But nobody on Earth has full understanding yet, except by the extraordinary power of the Holy Spirit working through the relevant faculties and applying to specific instances of fact relevant to doctrine, via other means of grace, etc.This passage is kind of like a metaphor for the kind of understanding his audience reach get by simply reading his letter, compared to actually meeting him face to face later so he can explain personally.He writes, hold fast to the tradition of the apostles, both that taught by letter and that through the spoken word. It is important that both are retained.Or the relationship with Christ, who is apparent through the accidents of the Eucharist to the corporate senses as bread and wine, but are revealed through spiritual discernment as the entire body and blood, soul and divinity of Christ.Not merely as an idea you can consider in some kind of detached intellectual way, but as an immediate realization and apprehension of a truth which is ineffable and transcendent. The mystery of faith.Through the signs of bread and wine, which you know in part, the thought of his body might be comprehensible to your intellect. That idea, not being the thing in itself, is an image of his real presence.In truth, his natural fullness is made available to your entire being; his body to yours, mind to mind, souls united in glory.
>>18343369>>18343447Sorry pal, the Church™ declared Modernity™ is not a corrupting influence, therefore the Church™ approves of megachurches as Modern™ expression of God's glory. I don't make the rules, don't question the Church™.
bump
>>18344386If a servant does not know the will of his lord, is he any less a servant?47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
>>18343521>protestants are right for holding divine truth to be more important than the Pope>the divine truth the protestants speak of was declared to be divine truth by a Pope that protestants reject as being capable of proclaiming divine truthAnd so continues the Protestantism circusProtestants always forget that the Sacred Scripture they base their "Sola Scriptura" on, which they proclaim in rejection of the Pope, is the same Sacred Scripture that the Catholic Church and Pope compiled and infallibly proclaimed to be Divine Truth, the same Catholic Church and Pope with which they reject and deny to be divinely inspired and infallible.
>>18344258>Why isn't the Church stuff in GreekIt is in Greek, in the Greek (Byzantine) rite. The Catholic Church has always had many rites said in many languages. The Latin Rite is one of them. The Latin Rite also includes Greek (Kyrie Eleison) and Hebrew (Alleuia), thus in it there is a continuity with all of the sacred languages.>>18344386>because what is spoken is meaningless if not understoodthis statement is categorically false>>18344003>Unlike the universal experience if not being able to speak Latin, that unifies all lay believers in incomprehension.This doesn't matter whatsoever. The priest isn't saying the prayers for the laity to understand, nor are the prayers directed towards the laity. The laity are simply bearing witness to a sacrifice taking place at the alter. Whether the laity understand the words uttered by the priest or even the actions performed by the priest (incomprehension of the actions by the laity happens regardless of language used) in no way invalidates or diminishes the efficacy of the sacrifice of the mass. Besides, Missals contain side-by-side translations if they would like to follow along.To draw a parallel: infant baptism. Whether the baptism is administered in Latin or in English, the infant does not comprehend either way. But this in no way invalidates or diminishes the efficacy of the sacrament. Only a heretical line of thinking would argue that baptism must be delayed until an age that the baptizand could comprehend it, in the same way that only a heretical line of thinking would argue that the mass must be said in a language that the laity could comprehend it.
>>18343900And in the meantime what are you going to do?
>>18343367you lost nigger no more gold and palaces for your ilk
