If you like individualism so much why don't you just move to a desert island?

>>18349480
If you like collectivism so much why don't you move to afghanistan?

bump

>>18349251
as with all things there should be moderation. Extreme individualism leads to a bunch of negative externalities and extreme collectivism leads to crippling inefficiency

>>18349488
How is Afghanistan collectivist?

>>18349795
Islam in general is very collectivist but islamic extremist regimes like the taliban disregard the concept of human rights to enforce religious devotion
They will force women to wear burkas, force everyone to attend mosque, etc

Doesn't seem very individualistic if you force everyone to practice the same faith

>>18349251
Collectivism and individualism are not an inherent political binary. Every society has freedoms and responsibilities, authoritarian dictatorships also can be heavily individualistic on a micro-scale and the U.S. settlers were far more collectivistic than most countries today.
That's how society functions, that's how humans operate. If you want to fully proclaim yourself as an individualist, fuck off to the forest and live by yourself, but you have no right to declare yourself as independent while benefiting from the fruits of an organised society.

>>18349251
>individualism
>bad
individualism is you. individuals only partake in collectivism because its benefitial (most of the time). what i mean is that remove the collective of the individual, and you still have an individual, remove the individual of the collective, and you have slaves

>>18349251
Individualism is transphobic

>>18350258
I think there's a difference between wanting to keep basic individual civil liberties and wanting to be completely independent like uncle ted

>>18350260
>you have slaves
The working class in hyper-collectivist societies were closer to slaves than freemen

>>18349251
>individualism
Because it's shallow. You never exist independantly from others. Your actions have consequences on others and society has always understood and worked around this principle. People don't understand that society works on a reciprocity basis, and that if you have the freedom to impede on others, then others will likely have the freedom to impede on yours too.
It's also very misunderstood. Many individualist thinkers argued for individualism as a proxy to achieve great things. The idea behind that form of individualism is that if you let people do their things, great things and an equilibrium will come out of it. This is very different than the layman's interpretation of it as "b-bbut what do you mean I can't let my dog shit on your garden ? LITERALLY 1984!".

>collectivism
Not a real thing. This is just a buzzwords to describe people wanting to have a collective decision over laws.

>>18349251
It's literally called a dictatorship of the proletariat. That's the whole damn point. The very act of revolution is a violent and authoritarian one and to prevent the success of the revolution from being undermined by reactionaries and opportunists from within, authoritarian measures are needed.

>>18349251
terms like individualism and collectivism are meaningless, regarding politics, and using them should be treated as being either under 12 or severely mentally retarded.

>>18350345
>You never exist independantly from others.
This is just a flat out lie that serves as a reverse narcissism
It's the same dehumanizing motive that they use for victims of sex trafficking
They'll tell them they aren't a person but rather an extension of a more powerful person

It's absolutely insane that "people" want to get rid of their freedom as an individual only to be clumped together in a working collective like a bunch of fucking ants

Even if we rely on others for things like medicine we still are individual beings with individual thoughts, actions, experiences and capabilities

>freedom to impede on others, then others will likely have the freedom to impede on yours too.
Yes, and there's nothing wrong with that

>b-bbut what do you mean I can't let my dog shit on your garden ? LITERALLY 1984!".
Strawman

>>18350386
Authoritarianism just leads to african-tier shitholes were the head of state can do whatever he wants

A totalitarian state only leads to oppressed citizens
When you can't criticize the state is when they get away with crimes like mass murder and corruption

>>18350397
"individualism" is used by marxist faggots who want to remove the concept of the individual

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>>18350449
>Authoritarianism just leads to african-tier shitholes were the head of state can do whatever he wants.

>"individualism" is used by marxist faggots who want to remove the concept of the individual.

It's very telling that you're a history-meme obsessed faggot. The good thing about people like you and your inability to think is that you end up achieving nothing in life and your incompetency results in a lonely wasted life, so you will do us the favor by the time you're 30 and kill yourself.

>>18349488
because we are not afghans.
>>18349251
individualism is bad because it leads to things like Clav and OnlyFans.

the logical conclusion of individualism is brutal vain superficial lookism where people become purely transactional devoid of love and genuine emotion.

Its either Clavicular or Boomers.
The necessary end result of individuailism taken to its logical conclusion.

>>18350484
>noooo bro totalitarianism will totally work this time bro we won't end up in camps for criticising a politicians bro trust me bro real totalitarianism has never been tried bro
The state isn't going to pay for your neovagina surgery

>>18350494
>individualism is bad because it leads to things like Clav and OnlyFans.
So just because porn and some tiktok faggot exist means we shouldn't have individual rights?

>>18350484
Please slice your wrists you worthless communist faggot

>>18350449
This mongloid think whatever first world haven he is in is not authoritarian.

>>18350529
When did I imply it wasn't?

>>18350511
>>18350519
>redditspeak

>>18350565
How is any of that redditspeak?
God you "people" are nigger minded retards

Maybe try making an actual argument instead of sounding like an autistic manchild

>>18349488
I am racist, and want a white collectivism. Afghans can't make a white collectivism.

>>18350631
good for you

>>18350631
>Afghans can't make a white collectivism.
Neither can whites because they are inherently individualist.

>>18350744
what is europe?

The Bolsheviks were Jews. Communism is an inherently anti-White economic view which promotes “class equality” over actual scientific differences. As such the Jewish ran media promoted communism and curse the White empowering fascism.

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>lgbt rights when normies are watching
omg yaaas we love lgbt vote for me
>the same lgbt politician when normies are asleep
hey mr country who hangs gay people, wanna use bullets instead?

You can never fully get rid of individualism and yes it is still very important, but from my perspective you have a partial duty to your group in general but a definitive one to your family to try and make life, safe and better for the next generations

I will be the first to admit I would struggle to sacrifice myself for others in my ethnic group but my instincts in my head tell me it would be easy for my own child, wife or parents and then the rest of the group <in that exact order of importance in my head.

the child should always be priority 1, your spouse may leave you, your parents will most likely pass before you etc.

individualism when the sole focus often has a trait accompanying in people that follow that logic that anything and everything especially society should heel to individualism, especially white liberal women.

god I hate attention seekers with a passion.

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>>18350766
learn some history, Bolshevism saved Europe and the white race from homosexual child murdering pagan german orcs and their shitskin allies

>>18350776
Now show the map of all countries China exports weapons to

>>18350807
The soviets literally sided with hitler and later imported african students into their country

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>>18350811
and?

>>18349251
A true brainlet made OP image

>>18350781
It truly seems the most logical choice for a functioning society is a balance between individualism and collectivism

You look at thailand, latin america, indonesia, the nordic countries etc and they all found a healthy balance that suits both the individual and the collective

>>18350631
The average Afghani is probably whiter than you

>>18350822
So they were nigger lovers who sided with child murdering german orcs

>>18350838
Spoken like a true dictatorship: red fan

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You should explain what you mean by individualism and collectivism, because these terms are vague. But no society truly benefits under a rule which focuses on "the collective whole" and absconds with individual rights. Collectivism on these terms are just rhetoric for some dictator to rule over you and plunder from you.

The regular person is not allowed to do things I don't like

>>18350766
>bolsheviks were Jews
>USSR the only non Muslim country in history to fight against Israel
?????

>>18350858
>>USSR the only non Muslim country in history to fight against Israel
are you retarded?

>>18350848
>You should explain what you mean by individualism and collectivism
The definitions used by communists when they bash individualism and praise collectivism

>Collectivism on these terms are just rhetoric for some dictator to rule over you and plunder from you
This is pretty much the only thing hyper-collectivism leads to

>>18350895
>The definitions used by communists when they bash individualism and praise collectivism

Do communists actually think this though? I'm sure a marxist-leninist might think on these lines, but I'm not sure about a left-wing anarchist.

>>18350930
>I'm sure a marxist-leninist might think on these lines
That's what I'm referring to
Perhaps I should've been more specific

>>18350511
>So just because porn and some tiktok faggot exist means we shouldn't have individual rights?
some? its everyone, we are seeing couple formation plummet because superficial appearance, transactional behavior, and self serving boomer individuality is dominating social life.
>individual rights
yeah, thats quite extreme but if necessary then yes.
If individual rights come at the cost of our existence and joy then yes, individual rights must go.
individual rights exist to serve us, we do not exist to serve them.
the ONLY way individual rights ever worked was in tandem with individual obligations.

>>18350449
>This is just a flat out lie that serves as a reverse narcissism
No this is the truth anon. Your actions literally exist on the same material playing fields as others'.

>It's absolutely insane that "people" want to get rid of their freedom as an individual only to be clumped together in a working collective like a bunch of fucking ants
Nobody is thinking that retard. This is a strawman invented because of the red scare. Nobody wants to deny one's individuality. Nobody is saying that humans don't intrinsically live for themselves.

>we still are individual beings with individual thoughts, actions, experiences and capabilities
No shit sherlock. Again, nobody is denying this. You're fighting a shadow.

>Yes, and there's nothing wrong with that
So when do you start accepting freedom and when do you stop ? Should we have the freedom to kill each other and accept the risks of doing so reciprocally ? Should it be the people living together who decide on these rules ? You're a retarded monkey that hasn't realized that society is literally built on mutual recognitions of guaranteed freedom and limits (rights and laws).

>strawman
It's not. This whole collectivist/individualist nonsense is a joke invented by the redscare to say that commies are akshually le bugmen who haven't realized individuality.

>>18350895
Wasn't one of Marx's critique of the existing socialism of the time as being too collectivist ?

>>18350858
>non Muslim country

>>18350573
>manchild
NTA but you are a newfag redditor. You’re not fooling anyone

The case against political individualism as a subset of liberalism is not arguing against the existence of the ego or its importance. It is arguing against individuality as the core organizing principle politically.
It means we should not in fact allow boomers to vote for their pensions over their children, for women to vote for abortion over children.
We should not allow things like extreme hypergamy or hookup culture, we should not allow corporate “individuals” like blackstone to monopolize housing.

No one is saying you should surrender your sense of self.
We are saying that responsibility will necessarily conflict with expressing individuality and when it does responsibility MUST win every time or else we get what we have today which is an abusive arms race between the sexes, an impossible housing market, and a perpetual overclass that everyone hates but can not be displaced for whatever reason (you mean the democrats right chud??), no I mean the Epstein class.

Individuality as the chief organizing principle of our politics has not diminished suffering but has greatly increased it.
Political Individualism MUST GO

>>18350957
Your ideology sounds dystopian and only appeals to state-worshipping cuckolds who love the government's boot up their asses

How the fuck do you not think people won't act like faggots under collectivism?
Why the fuck should it matter if less people are in relationships? Thats their fucking problem
The state shouldn't have to hold your crippling autistic hand to form relationships

>>18351141
>Nobody wants to deny one's individuality
Except for communist advocates

>society is literally built on mutual recognitions of guaranteed freedom and limits (rights and laws).
And a marxist government has less of these rights and are always missing basic human rights

>Should it be the people living together who decide on these rules ?
That's literally the concept of communal living

>Marx's critique
Marx literally said the concept of the individual should be done away with

>>18351180
Explain what part of my text resembles redditspeak, you negroid

>>18351290
So basically you want the government (which is ruled by zionist pedophiles) to ensure human being aren't having one night stands?

Your opinion on the housing crisis is the only logical part of your post
Everything else just sounds like a butthurt catholic incel (which I wouldn't be surprised since christianity is just protocommunism)

>>18351379
I want the government to not be corrupt yes.
Why is your assumption the government will necessarily be a Zionist criminal outfit?
>aren’t having one night stands
In short yes. How this is accomplished is more nuanced than a “sex now illegal!” Headline.
It would be the curtailing of social media, the banning of contraceptives, a constraint on the /tv/ produced by Hollywood, the sponsoring of third spaces, adding economic incentives to marriage, giving females more extractive rights over men they sleep with
>e.g. it will be impossible to father children with more than one woman without essentially being a slave on a government plantation to pay alimony, basically don’t sleep with a woman you aren’t prepared to commit your life to
Creating heavy constraints on divorce, ending tax payer subsidies for single mothers unless widowed, banning females from work, ending feminism, ending misandrist culture, giving the right of demanding marriage within a year or else compensation can be demanded if a woman loses her virginity to a man who doesn’t commit to her, there are many things we can do using political power.

>Catholic incels

Do you unironically believe Claviculars, Sophie Rains and Bonnie Blues are healthy for us? Their number only increases. Their market share is the kids.
A society which does not form families is a society which has already died.

If we are to choose between Life and Joy or political individualism.
I choose Life and Joy every single time. Why won’t you?

>>18350236
How does that make them especially collectivistic in comparison to any other non-western culture. Universal human rights is a very modern thing, rights exist in these cultures but they are bound to the social structure (this primarily means the family).

>>18351442
>Why is your assumption the government will necessarily be a Zionist criminal outfit?
That's the standard in most countries

>In short yes
Do you know how insane that sounds
The government shouldn't exist to arrest people for having consensual sex


>unironically believe Claviculars, Sophie Rains and Bonnie Blues are
I have no idea who the hell any of those are
I assume there some annoying tiktokers
All I can say is teens (and to a lesser extant, young adults) will always act retarded
Internet videos or not they will act like retards

With the combination of antiwomen views and the tiktok names I didn't know about, I can only assume you are some 16 year old far-right wing incel that is at threat of murdering a girl at his school


Just because something exists and you don't like it doesn't mean it needs to be illegal
You truly are mentally insane if you want to remove the rights of women because you think society would collapse otherwise

>>18351448
Islam has a lot of economic restrictions in its scripture
Radical islamists tend to be anticapitalist
The taliban also run a portion of the economy

>Universal human rights is a very modern thing,
Yes but they exist for a reason and it would be better if the states didn't abuse them

Going to bed now
See you all in the morning

>>18351476
>zionist pedophilia is the standard in most countries
So what? It is obviously something which must be changed.
>most countries are in an economic downturn therefore all ideas about politics must assume everyone will be poor till the end of time
That’s how you sound.
>that’s le crazy
No it’s not. It used to be that way and it took state power to get us into the situation we are in today. It will take state power to restore us.
They also said it was crazy to abolish most of what I mentioned too. Well, it worked, it was abolished and things went to shit.
Is it crazy if it works?
>I don’t know what’s going on
I know. You’re old. You shouldn’t discuss social politics as a geriatric because you will inherently be unable to grasp why I say what I do because you do not inhabit the same social climate I do.

>give women more rights as a class
>anti woman
???
Explain?

>you are mentally insane for wanting what your grandparents had
???
Why???

>>18351489
You are leaving the thread because you got btfo. You are arguing in bad faith.

You wouldn’t even answer the question.
If we are to choose between political individualism and preserving Life and Joy, why shouldn’t we choose Life and Joy every time?

You can’t answer this because the answer is obvious and completely destroys your regime liberal worldview and leaves no room for debate.

You just avoid it and call it anti woman.
The irony of calling something which empowers women as a class “anti woman”.
Peak bad faith.

Also this is just the future btw.
Almost half of women over 40 are on some form of SSRI. This is not healthy and these people are not happy.
Political individualism is a catastrophe.

>were the heckin Nazis right
Yes maybe about some things. But your thread is silly. People had alternatives to political individualism long before the Nazis.

FYI, you didn’t give any refutations or counter arguments. Calling how our grandparents lived “insane” is not an argument.
I can only assume you concede and individualism takes the L.

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>>18350844
no, they saved the white race, europe and human civilisation from pagan homosexual child murderging horde of german demons

>>18349480
I would but it's literally not even allowed.

I assume the third world tranny left in shame?

>>18351827
They saved europe by burning churches, forcing slavs to live next door to muslims and violently enforce an inherently jewish ideology?

>>18349251

Because the ones at the top were ethnically based on purpose. Whereas the ones at the bottom were only ethnically based "by accident". Cucks are usually okay with things being white as long as it's "on accident" and not design.

>>18351498
>So what?
The nazis captured a rothschild and let him go
Even hitler wasn't against pedo zionism

>>18351498
>Is it crazy if it works?
It doesn't work that's why it was abolished you fucking moron

>you do not inhabit the same social climate I do.
Because I'm not a retarded teenager like you

>>give women more rights as a class
Your entire post was about how women's rights were the downfall of society and why they need to be removed

>>you are mentally insane for wanting what your grandparents had
Go ask your grandma how great it was being treated like a second class citizen for being born with a cunt

>>18351506
>preserving Life and Joy
Your life under authoritarianism is treated with the same value as a condom

Your "joy" is not a concern for marxist collectivism, productivity is
China has to put up antisuicide nets on their bridges to keep the work quota

>The irony of calling something which empowers women
How does removing their rights empower them?


>Almost half of women over 40 are on some form of SSRI
Explain to me how that's the fault of individualism and not just America being a shit country
Tell me how many women are on antidepressants in the nordic countries or germany

>>18351506
>Yes maybe about some things
Further proof you're just some edgy autistic kid

>>18351514
Again, ask your grandparents how much they enjoyed the 50s-70s

There's a fucking reason we don't live like that anymore
Not that many people want the state to dictate everything in their lives
Women got tired of being expected to fill the role of housewife and nothing more
Blacks got tired of being treated like dogs in their own country
Most people realized how fucking shitty the US government used to be
If movements like those of the civil rights and feminism were just some crackpot political philosophy then said movements wouldn't have received widespread support, if political movements that support civil liberties and individualism were viewed as degenerate or destructive then they wouldn't have the support of the masses
By they did have widespread, mainstream support and it shows that american life in the 50s-70s sucked

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>>18352398
they killed and raped genocidal child murdering homosexual pagan nazi bugs

>>18349480
If you like collectivism, why not just remove your brain and have someone control your mind?

>>18352472
They also created a jewish oblast, funded and armed israel during its initial years, forced white families who have been living in the same area for generations to migrate to unpopulated shitholes in siberia, integrated muslims shitholes into the USSR, raped german women and girls

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>>18352487
stop making me love them even more

>>18352500
>they saved the white race
>by being international antiwhite violent jews

k

>>18352505
correct, they saved white race from child murdering kraut monsters

>>18350759
A welfare state that only embraces collectivism and socialist policy because it is a luxury afforded to them by America paying for their defense. They have literally never been collectivist at any point beforehand except for Hitler's Germany.

>>18352423
The Nazis ransomed the Rothschild and shut down the child brothels.

>it doesn’t work
It worked for our entire history. When did we have a hypergamy induced fertility crisis before political individualism?
Never.
>it was abolished
Not by choice. It was imposed by a hostile alien elite.
Feminism had to be imposed upon Americans, they never voted for it.
>I’m old so I don’t know what’s going on
We know, that’s why you’re out of touch.
You’re not even American either, your posts read like that slavslop drivel.
>women’s rights were the downfall
Where did I even once mention “women’s rights”? Quote it.
I said we should remove the damaging elements of political individualism, specifically those causing/enabling hypergamy, this includes curtailing the individual expression of both men and women. Women would hold MORE power over men than they do now under the plan I gave.
At the bare minimum we need to undo the damage, further than that we can focus on sexual equality, harmony, and fairness.

My grandmother loved her life and her family was her joy then and now.
She actually enjoyed the way the world was and her whole life has been a conservative.
I’m not a conservative but clearly she preferred “being a second class citizen”.

What has it profited her what you advocate?
What has it profited me?
You hate men, and you don’t actually care about women’s well being beyond what it can do for (You) politically.

>>18352440
>authoritarianism
Authoritarianism?
Untrue and a False dichotomy. We do not need to live under authoritarianism to avoid the dangers of political individualism.
Furthermore authoritarian structures are often what places the MOST value on human life.
Parent-child relationships are authoritarian by nature and practice and the parent values their child more than anything in the world.
You’re wrong.
>China
???im not Chinese or a Marxist???
>removing their rights
???
We are removing feminism. We are re-evaluating the rights of men and women to respect their unique roles in organized society.
Tell me, how does forcing men to commit to relationships or pay entirely for child support or be punished heavily for abandoning a woman or scandalizing a woman remove the rights of women?
It doesn’t. It expands their rights and it does so in a constructive and progressive way which is socially healthy.
>how is it the fault of individualism
In the same way a child who is sick from eating too much candy suffers from a bad case of not being prevented from eating too much candy.
People do not have a right to make themselves and others unhappy. When individualism conflicts with the social good or with responsibility, individualism MUST lose every time or else we get what we have today. A collapse in fertility, morale, and increase in anguish and despair.
>how many are in anti depressants in Nordic countries or Germany
Troll post???
Nordic countries are on MORE anti depressants than America, a lot more. They consume the most actually. They are also the most politically individualistic being turbo liberals about things like social organization.
>you’re just an edgy autistic kid
Not an argument. Also what I say is extremely popular. You wouldn’t know because
1. You’re not American, you’re from a second world shithole.
2. You’re not young, you’re an out of touch zoylennial who needs to die.

>>18349251
Because you are alone, we are not.

>>18350236
Very tempting. Still, I won't worship a jewish god though.

>>18352466
My grandparents enjoyed growing up. They vote MAGA specifically because they think Zion Don will lead them to the promised land of 1955-1991.
>there’s a reason we don’t do that anymore
Yea because our hostile alien elite forced changes no one wanted upon us against our will and we are now living in a social crisis.
>the state to dictate everything
The state dictated everything in 1890s America?
>blacks
Who gives a fuck about blacks?
We are White. We care about ourselves.
>most people
Who? No one voted for it.
Infact the ONE (1) time segregation was put up for a vote Whites overwhelmingly voted for it and 1/3 of blacks voted for it.
You didn’t even know political individualism was voted AGAINST by the American people. You don’t know this because you’re not American.
>widespread support
They didn’t. They literally didn’t. They were imposed via judges and lawyers not policy referendums.

Furthermore, I don’t care about 1970. You brought it up. However 1970 didn’t have White genocide and a negative fertility rate or female hypergamy where the majority of people aren’t forming families.

Whatever 1970 was it was better than now by literally every metric that actually matters.


Why shouldn’t we have family formation as the primary metric for quality of life?

>>18352479
If you like individualism why not kill yourself so you can be liberated from the corporeal form imposed on you by your ancestors?

>>18352584
i hope your grandparents will hang first when we finally implement a final solution to w*ite question

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>>18352505
That anon is part of a dedicated clique shilling Bolshevism while seething about Anglos and Germans, there's no reason in arguing with creatures like him.

>>18352552
>Nazis ransomed the Rothschild
Did they imprison the rothschilds?
The nazis also received financial support from the soviets and wall street

>It worked for our entire history
By that logic we shouldn't abandon zionism because it "works" and has been a part of our culture for decades

>they never voted for it.
But they hated it so fucking much that the majority of americans did fucking nothing to vote away feminist policies
I guess that shows what mindless sheep Americans are

>that’s why you’re out of touch.
Yes, forgive me if I'm more worried about actual people with important influence like Elon Musk or Marco Rubio instead of worrying about some faggot tiktok users like an autistic child

>Where did I even once mention “women’s rights”? Quote it.

>>18351290
>means we should not allow for women to vote for abortion over children.
>>18351442
>Creating heavy constraints on divorce, ending tax payer subsidies for single mothers unless widowed, banning females from work, ending feminism, ending misandrist culture, giving the right of demanding marriage within a year or else compensation can be demanded if a woman loses her virginity to a man who doesn’t commit to her, there are many things we can do using political power.

>she preferred “being a second class citizen”.
Ask her specifically what rights she enjoys being taken away if a system like that regains traction
ask her how much she'd enjoy not having a career of her own or a voice in society

>You hate men
No
I just hate retarded state-loving cuckold like you

>>18352573
>We do not need to live under authoritarianism to avoid the dangers of political individualism.
Collectivism is inherently authoritarian
No one chooses collectivism

>Furthermore authoritarian structures are often what places the MOST value on human life.
Give me an example on a trait of human life which value increases via authoritarianism

>>China
China is a perfect example of the policies you're advocating for
And life in china fucking sucks

>>18352573
>forcing men to commit to relationships
Why should that be a matter of the state?
Why should that be forced?
Why the fuck are other's relationships the responsibility of other people?

>People do not have a right to make themselves and others unhappy
I would love to know how collectivist nationalism is going to cure everyone of their depression by taking away their rights

>Nordic countries are on MORE anti depressants
Show me the statistics and while your at it show me the statistics of germany's antidepressant intake

>>18352573
>You’re not American
Wrong, I'm just not a retarded statist like you
>2. You’re not young
I'm 24
But that's probably old to you since you're a 16 autistic kid

>>18352584
>My grandparents enjoyed growing up.
I doubt it's genuine passion for the horrible policies at the time and more of a general nostalgia
I really doubt that they want the social pressure of the 50s-60s to be brought back they probably just don't want to live next door to a hispanic

>forced changes no one wanted upon us against our will
Again
Majority of americans either accepted the changes because it benefited them or they did fucking nothing to do anything to remove the policies
We have the second amendment, they could've led a revolution if they hated it so much but chose not to

>1890s America?
We're talking about mid 20th century, sweetie

>Who gives a fuck about blacks?
Pissing off 13% of the population and treating them like dogs would not end well no matter what
It makes sense to not treat them like shit for our own sake

>Infact the ONE (1) time segregation was put up for a vote Whites overwhelmingly voted for it and 1/3 of blacks voted for it.
Show me

>They were imposed
Once again, the american populace did fucking nothing?
if 20th century USA was so conservative and traditional why did the government adopt "degenerate" policies?
And wouldn't imposing a political policy on a populace be an example of collectivism?
the government under an authoritarian state would always have the power to impose whatever bullshit they want
And you want to give them that power, dumbass

>>18352592
>youre an angry child
>also your family needs to die for being White
Who's the target audience for this joke?
>>18352817
>did they imprison
Yes, they imprisoned the one Rothschild who was a junor clerk at a bank in Austria, then ransomed him for big money.
>the nazis received financial support
What does this even mean? show us the paper trail, show us the receipts.
Do you mean German business (not the nazi party) received investment from foreign ventures? Yes that tends to happen....literally everywhere.
>Americans did nothing
No, they actually did a lot of things and they didnt feel the effects of feminism fully until now.

What has feminism profited White men?
nothing.
>Americans are mindless sheep
boomers* yes.
>actual people with influence like those begging Epstein for a trip to the island
LOL
>an autistic child
Musk spends his time repeating talking points from these "faggot tiktok users" lol.
Rubio is nothing, hes cooked. He will go down with maga.
>we should not allow for women to choose abortion over children
this is not a violation of women's rights, it is the protection of women's obligations.

You have failed to explain how giving women power over men, such as demanding marriage or in essence slave based alimony is not an expansion of women's rights as a class.
>ask her specifically
Why would we ask someone who doesnt know what's good for them what's good for them?

Did your parents ask you what your bed time should be when you were five years old? No they didnt, argument over.
>state loving
yes the famously bureaucratic overbearing state apparatus of 1890, zero liberty existed until we had palantir AI, digital ID, and more political prisoners than the USSR and Nazi Germany combined.

You are not even Western, you are a leftist turd worlder who does not know what liberal individualism has wrought.

What has political individualism profited us?
You made zero arguments in your favor and failed to refute any of mine.

>>18352832
>collectivism is inherently authoritarian
Authoritarian is a description, not an ideology.
>no one chooses collectivism
so what? Children do not choose their parents or their bedtimes, they are better off for it.
>give me an example
The Family Unit.
>China
but I am not Chinese and I do not want the Chinese model.
Is your argument "You must be feminist liberal individualists or else become Chinese"? ok well I can see a path that is clearly neither of those lmao.
>why should that be a matter of state
because the State protects these people from the consequences of their actions.
If a woman is wronged by a man, she can appeal to two things historically, Men who care for her or the state.
The state has monopolized enforcing justice, so they must enforce justice.
otherwise the state should withdraw its monopoly on violence and permit blood-feuds and honor killings again.
>why are relationships the responsibility of others
relationships have an effect on others and therefore are the interest of others.
>how is collectivist nationalism going to cure everyone of depression by taking their rights away
well the same way it did before we had liberal individualism.
The same say it does in small ways when people have a sense of group identity and belonging.
Its basically impossible to be depressed for long when surrounded by friends, family, and in a loving relationship.
These are collectivistic structures based on mutual interest.
>antidepressants
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_antidepressant_consumption
I am actually astonished you didnt know this.
The more individualistic and liberal a country is, the more anti-depressants they need.
>wrong
Are you American? White American?
>statist
the family unit is not "the state"
class protections for men, women, and families, is not "the state".
the state is really an extension of people.
There is no such thing as "the state" if we get down to brass tacks.

>>18352832
FYI, ALL liberal individualist countries have LESS freedoms, fewer liberties, and more suppression of dissidents than any other system ever except maybe galley slavery.
>youre an autistic kid
not an argument.

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>>18353666
>please care about white people
no

>>18352878
>horrible policies
you mean the policies which somehow didnt collapse the birth rate or lead to people being depressed, isolated, and alone?
>I really doubt theyre anything but racist
??
The social pressures of the 50s and 60s, a relatively speaking quite liberal and individualistic time anyway, served a purpose and we see today we are much worse off than back then.
They werent on track for extinction, we are.
>Americans accepted it
nope.
>it benefited them
who?
White men who contributed more blood and sweat than anyone else?
How did it benefit White men, the largest benefactors of the United States?
>or did nothing
1. They didnt know how bad things would become, they do now and we see they rail against it endlessly.
2. they had no avenue to resist it, they were grifted by politicians their whole lives breaking promises they never intended to keep.
>they could just become armed rebels
really? This is the answer?
yeah bro and black people had spears when the slavers showed up so anyone who became a slave did so by choice or else theyd have died fighting.
slavery was completely consensual right?
>were talking about the 20th century
no we arent, we are talking about all times and all places, everything is on the table when discussing where America should head.
>it wouldnt end well
The country is pissing off 40% of its population and treating them like dogs, do you think that is ending well?
>not treat them like shit
They had families, they had jobs, they had freedom of speech and freedom of association, that is more than what Whites have today.
>NOOOO RACISM WAS LE HECKIN HORRIBLE
They werent on track for extinction, whatever they had, it wasnt bad. not at all.
>show me
Thaddeus Russel's Renegade's history of the United States has the stat.
>re: Why did Americans do nothing
Same answers as before.
>why did the traditional conservatives become degenerates
They were replaced by an organized ethnic mafia.

>>18352878
>wouldnt that be collectivism
grab your pants theyre about to fly off.
collectivism and individualism are not all or nothing sets of ideas nor 100% right or 100% wrong.
>you want to give the government power to impose bullshit on people

No, I want to run the government in the interests of the people, you know so we dont go extinct like we are now.


You strike me as some eastern Euro ape who thinks all state power is evil because Slavs terrorized Slavs using state power, and now in the liberal west you want to push for Western ideas without actually knowing where those ideas go, so you ignorantly advocate wholesale for one set of ideas and wholesale against another.

This is why you are incredulous about very basic things like the more liberal and individualistic people are the more depressed people.

Youre not from here, youre not from The West, you dont know what were going through. Your idea of us comes to you through propaganda. You have to live the Western Experience to understand why we are against Liberalism, Individualism, and Egalitarianism.

You dont get it because you arent one of us.

Polskja can never be Western cowboy :((((

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>>18353672
I am not asking you to care about White people.
I care about White people.
>jeet fantasy
HAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHA
ghee filled pot bellied manlets who have replaced blacks as the most common "no 'x' allowed" on hookup sites and red light districts.
indian women pay White men to impregnate them while their husbands slave away at the call center lmfao.
This happens in both White countries and Jeet countries.
>NOOO SAAR NOOOO MODS SAVE ME REPORT REPORT SAAR HALL MONITOR SAVE ME SAAR
fat, stupid, weak, narrow, frail, no one wants to be indian.

>>18353692
if Indians are so bad then why are you being replaced

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on one hand individualism provides much needed scrutiny of the leaders of the group

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on the other it leaves the group open to exploitation by "tribalists" who will never abandon nepotism and will always collude against outsiders to take control of the group

blood is thicker than water, as they say

>>18353719
go back to /pol/

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>>18353814
>DO NOT POINT OUT OUR SCAMS SARRR
>DO NOT REDEEM, SARRR WHY DID YOU REDEEM
lol

indians do in fact commit fraud on a massive scale and collectivist nepotism is central to it all, since they make up for low IQ with sheer persistence and population, why shouldn't I bring this up this important case study in a conversation about collectivism vs individualism?

>>18353830
That Indian scam artist screaming "DO NOT REDEEM" sounds like a kind of goblin-like demon trying to stop someone embracing Christ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m8Ln1yqeJE

I am always reminded of this whenever I see an Indian.

>>18353830
based Indians replacing white vermin

>>18353873
Why you using internet and English language? That’s a product of the White devils.

>>18353961
Why are you using Indian numerals? well there you go

>>18354075
Haven’t used an Indian numeral once. I don’t even think Indian numerals exist.
In any case are you comparing a piece of text to the world wide internet and the lingua Franca of the world?

Pajeets are potbellied ghee filled androgynous midgets.
They should be hunted for sport.

>>18354142
>I never used numbers
I'm not suprised

>>18354145
I said I never used Indian numerals you illiterate subhuman.
Can’t you read, monkey? Too much ghee in that fat pot belly of yours making you tired?

>>18353695
We already went over this. Whites are in a war with jewish oligarchs.
Indians are a biological weapon. Anyone who doesn’t want Indians around finds it effortless to exterminate them like the vermin they are. The pajeets in Africa were all raped to death by Africans, same story in SEA, happened in Iran as well, soon to be the case in most of the world.

4chan is a psyop by the pedo billionaires

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>>18354453
we switched up on them and exposed them as jewish pedophiles, they were playing with fire and got burned

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When we compare collectivism with individualism we usually contrast white western countries with east Asia as they are both high IQ, developed and familiar to us. However one might also contrast Africa and India, both low IQ.

It is much more difficult to shuffle a gang of African men with their ak47s into the horrifying squalor of the hives, but even here Africans will at least clean the front of their own homes where the Indian dumps trash on his own doorstep. Why? Because an African man will get violent if you start messing with his property, but the Indian man with his short stature and pot belly has no real claim to his own little shack beyond his family and neighbors shouting at an intruder, maybe. The African is backed up by his own violence and his homies, the Indian with his short stature, pot belly and difficulty forming masculine bonds depends more on his "izzat", his ability to LARP as being of a certain social status.

Izzat is a form of collectivism. The Indian man claims he is a "Brahmin" and a Brahmin never has to put trash in the trash can, he drops it where he pleases as though expecting an untouchable to do it for him, he is a boss allowed to scam and pick everything clean as he likes and be seen as wise not petty for doing so. If he is found out he can easily dissolve back into the masses of Ranjesh Pujits and Pujesh Ranjits indistinguishable from one another. Even if he needs to take a shit, he does it wherever he is in front of everyone. When everyone acts like this, you get India.

>>18353873
>let me explain why you are vermin sarrr

>>18354075
The base-10 numeral system is Sanskrit thus Vedic Aryan, not Indian, in origin. Neither was it some kind of rare breakthrough essential for modern civilization. You don't know what you are saying, but then I didn't expect much.

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There's actually no such thing as collectivism, every human being is an individualist with varying degrees of empathy at best. What people call"Collectivist Societies" are at best just individualist societies that happen to heavily incentivize collectivist behavior, you might as well argue that every developed western country is actually collectivist, since people are generally encouraged to pick up their trash and throw it into a trash can, and people do this because they know it's within their own best interest not to live in a literal landfill. India's problem isn't that their individualistic, their problem is that they're retarded