Each time I come across the subject of Eugenics it is presented in a negative light. Everyone who I've ever heard speak on the matter considers it to be an "evil" idea that needs to be avoided at all costs. But why? Some genes are objectively better than the others.
>>18358325I would say it's a combination of left-over christian morality and the connection with Nazi Germany. Both are of course easily dismissed so what they often try a counter argument beyond that are what if-scenarios, as in "what if it goes wrong, what if we create monsters" etc. which is based on fear. Like when someone would say to the Wright brothers "what if the plane crashes"
Eugenics got bad reputation because the early 20th century eugenicists did not just talk about sexual selection and good genes, they advocated the state forcefully making reproductive decisions for the people.
>>18358325People can't agree on what genes are to be culled or promoted and why and people can't agree on how much power the state should have in this question.
>>18358325well first name a single eugenics program that worked on humans
>>18358421Indo-European expansion
>>18358325>Why is Eugenics wrong?It isn't, the dark of hell should be purged from the earth. Instead the enemies of God have weaponized the dark demons of hell to destroy the light of God.
>>18358344>the state forcefully making reproductive decisions for the peoplea decision to not intervene is still a decision as selection happens either way. Judging by the current trends, that may prove to be a bad decision
>>18358516What if you take away the rights of one party?
>>18358520The old school eugenicists saw unfit women being able to get pregnant at all as a negative even when they didn't have rights. Plenty of eugenic initiatives were about forced sterilization of unfit women.
>>18358540The most historically represented example of eugenics is the sterilization of the dark so that their corruption does not threaten the kingdom of heaven on earth. Matthew 19:12
>>18358421nordic countries
>>18358403Why do you need to pass a test to adopt children but not to create them? Why is it morally okay to stop an unfit parent from adopting kids but not okay to stop them from creating kids? Why's it okay to legally designate people unfit to adopt children but not unfit to create children?Basically. We can start by disqualifying the people who wouldn't be eligible from adopting kids from creating kids.
>>18358465>>18359256and how exactly were they eugenics programs
>>18358344>they advocated the state forcefully making reproductive decisions for the people.I'd trust the state more than women. Many men would recoil at this statement but it's true. Women reject you and cheat on you. The state, meanwhile, needs to be invested in the sexual success of its citizens so it's in its interest to give you a gf.
>>18358421jews do it and they dont want you to know
what makes genes better?how did jews outsmart whites despite your "superiority"?
Because the same people who make the big decisions now will end up deciding who gets to breed. Do you get it now?
>>18359316I would rather trust a billionaire over an average woman on this matter
>>18359265In Sweden it worked because it's ambitions were modest. They just culled anyone with Down's Syndrome, that's it.
>what makes genes better?genes that confer superior abilities like high IQ, black people have superior genes that make them good sprinters but in the larger scale of things it is not relevant if your top athletes are 2% faster whereas IQ affects the destiny of nations>NOOO WE ARE ALL 100% PERFECTLY EQUAL IN EVERY WAY YOU HECKIN' RACIST ABLOBLOBLOOlol, fuck off>how did jews outsmart whites despite your "superiority"?<white people's prosperity made them decadent and complacent, we wanted to believe we lived in a world where morals are something concrete and acted like all the minorities were just like us and would adopt these views and respect our liberty and one day be IQ 100 and low crime like white people, but 60 years after civil rights it is clear there are inherent differences and nothing will change, if trying to squeeze blood from a stone never works, well, you're going to try something different, this might not involve being an edgy NSDAP appreciator like /pol/, but it doesn't mean being the meek soiboy cuck you want us to be either
>I would rather trust the guys who constantly prove to look down on me and prioritize short term profit gains (many of whom also ended up having deep contact with a massive pedo working for a forgein glowie agency)
>>18359326These people actively want you dead because the resources you consume to sustain yourself could be spent on a few more servers to generate 5 second video memes. No matter how many roasties ghost you on tinder they can never be worse than that
>>18359328By "working" you mean it produced a bunch of guilt-tripped people utterly submissive to the state who decided to commit demographic suicide. Or do you consider blond hair to be an automatic genetics win
>>18359330>>18359332There is no reason why billionaires would want normies dead, they need serfs.On the other hand there's absolutely no reason why women would want men to exist beyond the small percentage of chads whom they fuck
>>18359345They don't need serfs, they will soon have androids for labor. Maybe they'll keep a few humans around for entertainment, that's it
>>18359312The sad truth is, there would be a lot more black representation in the dysgenic side than in the gentleman side
>>18359350Billionaires often do philanthropy work for PR so maybe they could introduce govt-mandated gfs to make themselves look heroic
>>183583251. Have you seen what selective breeding has done to dogs and plants? We now have dogs with faces so recessed they have difficulty breathing and crops so fragile that they wouldn't survive in the wild without constant use of pesticide. You want that for humans?2. It's impractical because humans live long lives. It's basically impossible to do a sustained eugenics program beyond one generation.3. It's unethical because it's ripe for abuse. Who gets to decide which genes are passed on? No one has enough moral authority to be handed the keys.
>>18359345>there is no reason why billionaires would want normies deadhave you not payed attention to the fact said billionaires are really pushing for AI despite the fact its extremely limited right now, also how exactly is this supposed to help your case since by your definition they just want a serf class, how exactly is eugenics supposed to be good under them when they will just select for a bunch of unthinking retards
>>18359355>have you not payed attention to the fact said billionaires are really pushing for AI despite the fact its extremely limited right now,If they wanted less people they'd be trying to actively depopulate the Third World like in those Alex Jones fantasies about Bill Gates. But they're not doing that. In fact they're doing the opposite> also how exactly is this supposed to help your case since by your definition they just want a serf class, how exactly is eugenics supposed to be good under them when they will just select for a bunch of unthinking retardsI'm not talking about eugenics. You asked would you like billionaires to control your breeding. I said I trust them more than I do the average woman. Women will just reject you, cheat on you or break up with you. Billionaires however actually have an incentive to care about society
>>18359370>they are doing the oppositeyou do know birth rates are also falling in most third world state>why I like billionaires to control your breedingand you reasons are extremely retarded, take your whole speel about how muh women will cheat on you, yes a lot of women do cheat but the same also applies to men, along with the fact it assumes its just a guarantee that partners will cheat on each other which is not an actual reality, and again they clearly do not give a shit about societies well being since they have entirely seperate goals, if they think they can squeeze out extra profit by screwing us over they happily will
>>18359388>you do know birth rates are also falling in most third world stateThis has nothing to do with billionaires >and you reasons are extremely retarded, take your whole speel about how muh women will cheat on you, yes a lot of women do cheat but the same also applies to men,Yes, women would also benefit from being matchmade by billionaires, instead of relying on random men. Do you see the light now?
>>18358421White people used to put criminals in jail during their reproductive years. Over a few hundred years, we weeded out a lot of the MAOA-L(warrior gene) in the white population.Stopping low quality people from reproducing, across generations, gets rid of lots of bad things in the gene pool.
>>18359429>white people used to put criminals in jail during their reproductive yearsthat still happens>weeded out a lot of the MAOA L win the white populationnot even the highest prison pop would be able to supposedly affect that gene, especially since many of them would have probably reproduce at some point before going to prison
>>18359404>benefit from matchmade by billionaires>you see getting matched to intentionally produce a class of serf made to serve us (that we also want to replace the moment we can) is actually to your benefit
>>18359442>you see getting matched to intentionally produce a class of serf made to serve us (that we also want to replace the moment we can) is actually to your benefitTheir alternative is reaching 30 single, and then it's alcoholism, depression and suicide.
>>18359450how exactly is being assigned to some rando for the sole purpose of producing a kid to essentially be a disposable serf to a billionaire not going to lead to alcoholis, depression, and suicide
>>18359458Because it beats being alone which is even worse
>>18359460>yeah having you entire existence devoted to producing disposable units to us is totally better than being alone, trust me
>>18359471Would you rather be an incel wageslave or a wageslave with a wife to fuck?
>>18359439>that still happensNot the same way.>not even the highest prison pop would be able to supposedly affect that gene, especially since many of them would have probably reproduce at some point before going to prisonSo you have no idea about anything, but wanted to reply anyways?Thanks for trying.
Eugenics is not the problem. It's what the nature does, animals with bad genes tend towards extinction.But the eugenics we always talk about it's not the natural eugenics, it's a distorted ideology based on beliefs and hatred towards other cultures and peoples.hat's bad, and not good for our race.
>>18359312It's just a superficial look.
>>18358325Because government already controls too much of our lives. We shouldn't let them determine who's allowed to exist on top of that.
>>18358325Peoppe actually do support eugenics but only in certain situations. Like for example people will actually agree with eugenics when it’s presented as “low quality women marrying wealthy higj IQ attractive men”, in the sense that it’s “eugenic” for the low quality woman’s DNA lineage. I’ve noticed that people are only against eugenics when it is presented as improving the male side of the lineage.
>>18359265IE spreading superior genes across eurasia was a net benefit for humanity
>>18358325Eugenics sounds good until you think about who's going to get to decide if you are worthy enough to breed or not. Just how much do you trust your government?
>>18359720How can the government be a more unpleasant arbiter of that than women themselves are?
>>18359760Women are cruel but they respect men from all walks of life. A man can become a master in many different ways that a woman can respect. Government would likely pick too narrowly.
>>18359764If you trust women over the government idk what to tell you
>>18358325literally all human mating is a eugenics game. nobody is trying to find an old, fat, ugly, unhealthy, low IQ partner. everyone tries to bat out of their own league to improve the genes of their offspring.
>>18359329White people, like everyone else, universalize their experience. For white people what that means is assuming everyone else will behave ethically and with empathy for others and consideration for society itself. This would be ideal if everyone was white or had white sensibilities. But some of us are not like this, and empathy and ethical behavior are easy to hijack if you have neither.
>>18358325Eugenics is a bad premise to begin the conversation. The more basic premise is "how do we improve the human race?" and then you review the options to do so, which includes selective breeding but that isn't the only solution.Human enhancement within individuals' lives like brain-computer interfaces and genetic modification delivers:>a faster effect; decades at most>a potentially larger effect, especially on the scale of centuries that eugenics would take>an improved ability to think about eugenics to begin with>a solution to negative cognitive effects from information technologiesIt's not so much that eugenics is evil, it's that it isn't the easiest option, isn't the most effective option and is a lower priority when thinking about how to invest resources.There is also a liberal-flavored argument that it's foolish from a civilian perspective to trust the state with that amount of power. There should be a robust feedback system between civilians and powerful institutions to prevent potentially dangerous abuses of power. You can't have that in a typical modern state that conceals much of its actions and is rife with elitist and sadistic attitudes well removed from pure utility.You can't think about politics and ideology without the intersection with other subject-matters.
>>18358325a Son of God is not superior or inferior to another
>>18359429Prisons have only been widespread for about 250 years. Clearance rates were probably very low and most lawbreakers were never caught, let alone before they reproduced. This theory has no solid evidence.
>>18358403>People can't agree on what genes areThey can, different races can not agree but they dont agree on anything really.But if we are being honest, no one has ever said "this person is too beautiful, they need some ugly in their genepool"
>>18359856>no solid evidenceActually it DOES.Harpending and Frost did a study on it and found that Europeans removed violent idiots through extensive legal systems and law enforcement that anti-social genes were dropped by a rate of 3000%.That's 30x.The crime rate fell roughly equal to that with 20-40x fewer crimes being committed by modern Europeans compared to Medieval Europeans.The mechanism of action is disputed, Harpending and Frost said executing criminals was more likely the primary driver as opposed to incarceration.>the implications are what we just kill a bunch of black people until they stop nigging out???I mean, it worked on White people.
Why is eugenics opposed my boy it’s simple the people on the top don’t want their genetic monopoly on the superior genes to be threatened
>>18359339>By "working" you mean it produced a bunch of guilt-tripped people utterly submissive to the state who decided to commit demographic suicide.but people without eugenics also did this which means there is a confounding factor here and this can not be attributed to eugenics.>blonde hair an automatic winIt kind of is when you see how highly valued they are in sexual selection.
>>18358325If the objective is to eliminate diseases then it is in theory an objectively good thing but the problem comes when you have to apply that theory to reality. Why does other person have the right to tell a person that he/she can't have children? You can't justify that in a democratic society.
>>18359882But Scandinavians (and Canadians) are the most enthusiastic about it. Also, if the reason is non-genetic and eugenics didn't save them, what's it good for?
Big secret is the USA practiced eugenics in the late 1800s and early 1900s.Many people under a certain intellect level or with serious genetic disability were sterilized or put into insane asylums for life where they were later used as guinea pigs given labotomies having spikes shoved in brains and various chemicals tested for drug effects.The result of this cruelty is the genetics of people in the nation before 1900 were cleaned up. Immigrants allowed in afterwards have undone the benefits of these genetic purges.The nazis actually got their idea of eugenics from what was done in the USA.
>>18359472Gottem
Hollywood has a lot of cases of gay man having kids with female lesbians. This results in a freak.
>>18359901>Why does other person have the right to tell a person that he/she can't have children? You can't justify that in a democratic societySo you're against female choice of partners?
>>18360228Don't be stupid. Eugenics is literally>"I consent!">"I consent!">"I don't!"Meme except instead of Jesus it's a gang of baby raping Jews and their goyslaves.
Is this the line of argumentation that will be used to support the soon coming designer babies? Either china goes full throttle with it due to lack of moral issues they would have with it, or the trump admin giving it legal pass as some tech feudal lord convinces them it’s need for the future without regulation like ai is
>>18358325The determination of 'superior traits' will always be subjective and ultimately arbitrary, making the eugenic actions unjust. Plus in practice eugenic organizations targeted specific groups out of prejudice, which leads us to the other point: It implicitly allows some state commitee to sterilize you without recourse.>>18360228Women do not sterilize the men they reject. Female choice is rather unconnected to the concerns of real eugenics (that is, Eugenics as it actually existed), anyway. It seems more like a contemporaneous neurosis borne out of pseudo-incel sentiment.>>18360286Akshually instead of some Jews it's the Cornflakes guy.
>>18360317>Women do not sterilize the men they rejectThey effectively do. And they psychologically damage you with rejection
>>18360318>They effectively do.No. You can, at any moment, rape them and conceive a child. That you won't because you fear punishment is irrelevant. If anything is neutering you it's yourself.>And they psychologically damage you with rejectionThat sounds like a you problem.
>>18360329But don't rape anyone, please.
>>18360329>>18360330You can't just say the only thing holding us back from reproducing is our unwillingness to rape and then ask us not to rape.
>>18360348Hey man I was just proving a point about you not being neutered by women refusing to have sex with you.
>>18358344And rightfully so. Look outside your window today, look at the people walking past. You will see so many that are a drain on resources, and yet we're told to accept this insanity, we're told not to rise up and rage.
>>18359875I looked at that study a while ago. It doesn't cite any genetic evidence at all and relies a lot on claims of how things SHOULD work without delving in depth to show how they DID. They didn't take genetic samples from centuries old and didn't go through medieval court records to estimate clearance rates or how often a crime would result in the death of the perpetrator. I don't recall them even acknowledging that medieval and early modern Europe had multiple different legal systems or that even in earlier more lawless times perpetrators could wind up in lethal danger because of blood feuds. On the contrary, just about everything we know about medieval and early modern criminal law and justice suggests that execution wasn't the usual sentence applied across the board, and clearance rates were abysmal. Forensics and policing were basically non-existent. The more likely explanation is that the expansion of the monopoly on violence through various criminal sentences pre-empted and punished vigilantism and wanton violence, which would have driven figures way up in the preceding eras.
>>18359263>Why do you need to pass a test to adopt children but not to create them?To prevent children from easily falling into the hands of traffickers, abusers or people who are blatantly unfit to become parents. That is a lot (and I mean a lot) easier to do than to regulate the reproductive rights of an entire nation, especially without their consent.>>18359871The group of people that most people would near universally agree upon to be call objectively beautiful are a tiny, tiny, tiny portion of society. By definition most people are average looking and there's a large variance in what people find attractive. A dude on the eugenics board could have a thing for brunettes and decide to cull a bunch of blondes that a guy with a thing for blondes would have passed. Some guys like women who look like art hoes, some want bimbos. You vastly overestimate how many people can be categorized as objectively ugly or beautiful.
When the state can produce babies humanity is cooked
>>18360776The assumptions of that theory are also kind of outdated. They presume that genes are some sort of immutable guidelines, as per the geneplasm theories of the early 20th century. But they don't quite work like that, iirc. It's much more mutable.
>>18358325Look at all the farm animals humans selectively bred to give them better traits. They are all biological freaks riddled with health issues. Same would happen to humans, so it's better not to mess with that.
>>18360808Yeah hereditarians in the field of social sciences are really simplistic
>>18359256letting your country being invaded by nibbers doesnt sound as a smart eugenesic mind haver move
>>18360822>>18360808>>18360776Nope. Wrong on all counts.Subsequent analysis have shown the “warrior gene” decreased within the Hajnal line specifically where these legal codes and practices were instituted.>mutableWhat does this even mean?>geneplasmDo you mean germplasm you fucking moron?This is settled science. Genes influence behaviors, entirely, people are nothing more than genes in an environment, if you want to prove a soul then go ahead. Otherwise the scientific explanation is genes explain everything and environment is just the location where genes play out.>vigilantismYou didn’t read the study.Vigilantism wasn’t causing violent crimes to be reported.The hereditarians are right and there is literally no alternative theory.The difference in behavior between men and women is genetic.Genes determine an uncomfortable amount of someone’s life.This means blacks will never be functional, sorry. But your racial liberalism is the SOLE reason you hate the hereditarian’s debunking of tabula rasa.Some races are destined to fail in the parameters of our society and no amount of social programs can change that.
The idea has existed for ages, if it really worked some billionaire would do it already they kidnap enough kids to test the idea.
>>18358325Swift looks like a bird
>>18360892>test the idea my negro there’s no testing needed eugenics work people practice it every day in their sexual selection, people practiced it every day when they decided who to marry their daughter off to centuries ago
>>18358325She's the current main host of Asherah.
>>18360918>people practice it every day in their sexual selectionHow do you explain women or men that have children with bad partners? Like a lot of people that live in poor places, people that have children with junkies, felons, etc.?
>>18358325>But why?"On paper" eugenics makes sense; sterilize retards so they don't breed more retards but the problem is _who gets to decide_.
>>18358325Because it's dictating who gets to reproduce and who doesn't.
>>18360870Where are the genetic studies on the prevalence of specific variants of the MAO-A gene in ancient humans?
I support eugenics because I don't want other people to suffer the same way I did. Being born burdened with genetic disorders isn't anything fun and I don't wish it for anybody. It's a noble goal trying to make people healthier, smarter and more beautiful.
>>18358325>I'm a son of God superior to other sons of Godthat's the error
>>18358421abortion in Iceland
>>18358325Good genes are anti-semitic.
>>18360137>if you fix your windshield but then get a flat tire, fixing your windshield caused the flat tire
>>18360166>The nazis actually got their idea of eugenics from what was done in the USA.It was going on in Europe too in the 1800s, in some cases even into the post-WW2 years. Famously (because of Turing), fags were still getting castrated in the UK even in the post war decades.
>>18360228>So you're against female choiceyes
>>18360962People select their partners based on their available choices. Even in the slums, people are still picking between different levels of poverty and crack addiction in their potential spouses, and obviously favor the lesser fuckups.
>>18360978Whoever has power. We call this "the state".Everyone is always under the effect of breeding pressure inflicted upon them by the state (the effect is unfortunately currently dysgenic, but that's just because the current state you live under doesn't have the interest of the ethnos at heart).
>>18358325>infographic
>>18359840>brain-computer interfaces and genetic modificationat the moment that's sci-fi or else we would see results of that already. We have to work with things we already can control and selective breeding is in fact the easiest method. Even if technological optimization becomes possible, it should be considered "on top" of eugenics
>>18360812we bred dog races that are far superior to their wolf ancestors in every way. Sure we also created silly dogs like Chihuahuas that can't do anything for the fun of it. But ignoring the former in fear of the latter seems to be such a waste
>>18362616I didn't say it caused it. I said it's no good if it doesn't eliminate the key issues. Basically you just want more blond people
>>18362793>don't apply a solution to a problem if it doesn't fix all possible problems at the same timeWhy are you this upset about the existence of blonds?
>>18360998the middle ages arent ancientbut youre looking for a meta study, which there are.However, I have to ask, whats your alternative theory of explaining behavior that doesnt feature genetics as a factor?
>>18362806>If it doesn't solve the one problem more important than any other FTFY. A sucidal population is critically defective, nothing else matters
>>18362840There is zero reason to think there is a genetic tendency towards suicide in Nordics. Danes have one of the highest birthrates and are one of the most anti-immigration populations across the civilized world despite 80 years of propaganda and being extremely high trust.You're just upset that blonds are more attractive than whatever shade of brown people are in whichever favela you crawled out of.
>>18362866>>18362840And specifically for suicide, Nordic suicide rates are on or below par for Western Europe, and half or a third of Eastern Europe.
>>18362817Where are these meta studies?It's more likely that the expansion of legal systems in the early modern era both preempted cycles of violence among the populace and deterred violent crime in general.
>>18358421All of them
Ok, but couldn't we have bred all women to be supermodels with long legs and huge tits, wide hips? Before we decide that eugenics is bad or whatever?There's no reason why you wouln't want more hot chicks around.If you are concerned with male eugenics, you are likely a homosexual.
>>18363004Eugenics isn't just aesthetics, pornbrain.
>>1836286616% of Denmark has an immigrant background. It's over for you, Jon
>>18363033Big hips aren't just for aesthetics?
>>1836306280%+ White is bretty gud these days. I can't think of any White country with significantly better numbers west of the iron curtain. Not counting total memes like Monaco or whatever.
>>18363070>imma pretend to only have been talking about hipsweird since the post is right there, but ok
>>18363077Men being happy is important for society to function anyway and physical characteristings are easy to manipulate and are observable.
