>Classical>Eastern>HolyWhich is your favorite Roman Empire?
>>18360040A dead one.
>>183600403 > 1 > 2
>>18360040Late rome because of the sheer fucking kino of impending doom and societal collapse with heroic men, desperate from all sides grasping at straws to protect a country its elite no longer believe in
>>18360116this is how I feel about emperor Heraclius and the war against the Sassanidsit's the ultimate tragedy
>>18360040Rome as we imagine it basically ceased to exsist after the crisis of the 3rd century.>West Rome Is like modern Pakistan: gov centered around a few militarized cities. Long ass border with tons of enemies. Army made up of Mercs and conscripts. Multiple rebellious provinces. Tribal groups settling bordering regions. Bad economy. Yet it still considers itself a great power.>East RomeIs like modern Turkey, big chrony bureaucracy, more cultured, somewhat decent military, eastern border is the only real issue, uses diplomacy to fuck with it's nieghors and flips sides on a dime. But stifles innovation and growth....Byzantium after 700 or so is basically a east european kingdom and not really an empire anymore. By 1100 it's basically a city state like Venice.
>>18360156>But stifles innovation and growth.Modern Turkey is all about innovation and growth. That's the one thing separating Turkey from the rest of Eastern Europe and the Arab World.Turkey has a currency crisis, but it has one of the lowest foreign debts among G20 states and has consistently upward GDP. Turkey's birth rates are stagnating too. In terms of economic growth, they're still healthy. In terms of technological advancements, they're massively productive. In recent years, Western states have been buying weapons from Turkey including drones and ships. The US, UK and EU states have turned to Turkish company Repkon to build them TNT and artillery shell factories.>somewhat decent militaryPretty good military actually. Aside from the nukes, I'd say the Turkish military is better than India and Pakistan put together, and better than most militaries in the world.
Roman Republic
>>18360165>Modern Turkey is all about innovation and growthYes relative to the region it is, but it's not S-tier because it gets fucked by a massive centralized bureaucray, granted it's right-wing so it's not as stupid as say Spain, at least Turkey invests in it's military, and social cohesion is stronger (then the EU).>Pretty good military actually.Turkey's military is it's centered around heavy armor and mechanized units, it's trying to be the wehrmacht 2.0. Warfare has transitioned to very rapid air assaults + air superiority, now Turkey might not care because thier neighbors are weak, but thats the issue: complacency.>inb4 Ukraine war Both sides are glorified 1980s soviet armies with some western/chinese equipment.>Turkish military is better than India and Pakistan put together, and better than most militaries in the world.Turkey is next to one of the most dangerous nations in the world: Isreal. So being "better then India" doesn't cut it. What if Israel decides to take Istanbul? You can't have a second tier military next to first tier military thats belligerant.
>>18360218>Turkey's military is it's centered around heavy armor and mechanized units, it's trying to be the wehrmacht 2.0. Warfare has transitioned to very rapid air assaults + air superiority, now Turkey might not care because thier neighbors are weak, but thats the issue: complacency.Turkey has been focusing on UAVs and USVs over the past 1 to 1.5 decades. They've been growing their naval capabilities for longer than that.Mind you, Europe completely failed at making MALE and HALE drones. That's why Italy and Eastern Europe turned to Turkish drones, and the UK and Spain are contemplating going the same way. Turkish military strategy and technology has been pretty forward thinking. Not at all complacent.Turkey is very big in the consumer electronics, mobile gaming and medical industries as well. Now they're growing their footprint in hydrocarbon extraction.>Turkey is next to one of the most dangerous nations in the world: Isreal. So being "better then India" doesn't cut it. What if Israel decides to take Istanbul? You can't have a second tier military next to first tier military thats belligerant.If Iran falls, Israel's next targets will be Turkey and Qatar.Iran has the capability to defend and offend effectively but it hasn't due to cowardice and they're paying the price for it. Turkey too has the capability but it, ultimately, falls on decision-making.I've analyzed the stark differences in Iran's "Strategy of Patience" during the 1980s vs the 2000s/2010s vs the 2020s. They're nothing alike.
>>18360165>>18360103No one care about cockroach
>>18360156>Mexico>Canada>United States>ColombiaBatshit crazy tier>Portugal>Brazil>Finland>Romania>British>Poland-Lithuania>2nd French Empire>DutchFuck off-tier>HRE>Germany>Austria-Hungary>Hapsburg>Spanish>Catholic Church>European Union>Nazi GermanyWorks if you believe the Franks inherited the west>Wales>VenicePretty neat history as to why>Russia>BRICSFuck off Russia-tier>Franks>First French Empire>Ottomans>Latin EmpireRuler of Romans, arguable if Roman>Italy>Fascist Italy>Greece>TurkeyI get where you're coming from-tier>Umayyad Caliphate You guys build your own thing entirely what the fuck are you doing here
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>>18360156>BRICS China stop being greedy, you already have your own civilization, why do you need two?
>>18360103Elite ball knowledge
>>18360040The Ottoman Empire and the Habsburg Empire, in that order
>>18360165The problem with Turkey is that they don't pick a side in the global scale and if you don't you gain animosity from all sides
>>18360156>By 1100 it's basically a city state like Venice.Fucking what? In 1100 Alexios is already well underway with the Komnenian restoration. Even then in 1081 they have significant control over the Aegean, Peloponnese, Greece, and Macedonia with a few holdings left in Anatolia. Did you mean post 1204 or later?
>>18360156>Right of ConquestNo one believes these shitskin delusions
>>18360379Russia use fort tactic and road network like Romans do
>>18360040Honestly HRE is the most interesting a highly feudal state which saw a very gradual centralization before the Peace of Westphalia largely shattered any idea of Imperial authority and the relevance of the title of emperor declined until it was little more than a hereditary prestige title for the ruler of Austria.
>>18360103Unironically more legit than HRE.
>>18360040How the fuck did the Germans find the audacity to call themselves "Holy Roman Empire" when they have absolutely nothing in common with any Roman Empire? Their language, ethnicity, religion, and geography are completely alien to the ancient Romans as well as to the ERE.If the mongs of Germany can call themselves "Holy Roman Empire" then anyone can.
>>18363215>geography are completely alien to the ancient Romans (Greek pagans larping)>ERE (Roman christian larping)Pick one
>>18360040Holy
>>18360156In spirit is cheating
