Just read the Book of Job for the first time.
Why did he do that to Job? Seems kinda evil to kill a bunch of people and torture a man for a bet with the devil?
>>18361385>Why did he do that to Job?To prove a point.>Seems kinda evil to kill a bunch of people and torture a man for a bet with the devil?There was no bet, and that "satan" is not the one you think.
>>18361386Why does God need to prove a point to the devil, at the cost of killing and destroying innocent lives?Why do you think there are multiple Satans? How many Satans are there in total?
>>18361382What an asshole.
>>18361392>Why does God need to prove a point to the devil, That wasn't the devil.>at the cost of killing and destroying innocent lives?No human being is innocent.>Why do you think there are multiple Satans?Satan is just a title meaning "adversary", "opposer", "enemy", "accuser". God even uses that term for himself when he goes against certain individuals. If you go to a soccer match, the opposite team is a "satan" to you, if you go to a courthouse, the prosecutor is a "satan" etc.
>>18361405>No human being is innocent.So God is justified in torturing and killing anyone he wants? Sounds like a justification for an evil God to me.
>>18361425>So God is justified in torturing and killing anyone he wants?Yeah.But he is just and merciful, he won't do it.
>>18361429According to the Book of Job he DID do it though.
>>18361446To prove a point.
>>18361451Exactly. He tortured a man and killed a bunch of people to prove a point to the devil, to win a bet against Satan that some guy wouldn't leave him no matter how unfairly and cruelly abused he was.
>>18361463>Exactly. He tortured a man and killed a bunch of people to prove a point to the devilThat was not the devil.>to win a bet against SatanThere was no bet. It was a court proceeding.> that some guy wouldn't leave him no matter how unfairly and cruelly abused he was.That was not the point.
>>18361463Job is a pride filter.
>>18361467>>18361468Would you suck Jesus' hairy cock down to the base if God demanded it to win a bet against Satan? Would you swallow?
>>18361485Yes, anything for the Lord Jesus. Being freed from the Law through his sacrifice, any act of obedience to God which is apparently contradictory to the Law is not actually contradictory to His will. The question is, knowing that God and Jesus are real, would you not?
>>18361489No. I have morals and dignity. Even if the Canaanite storm deity did create the universe I still wouldn't do that. I'd choose hellfire or annihilation over debasement to that type of evil entity.
>>18361495You debase yourself all the time, especially through your sins, falling short of God's glory. You have no morals, no dignity. That you would disobey God, who loves you and who only seeks your best, is proof enough.
>>18361485>Filtered.
>>18361385Well yhwh is kinda evil
>>18361495In the day of judgement when you see the glory of God and the reward being given to the humble Literally supernatural magical powers and god-like bodies and minds and thousands of angel servants who worship them at their service and the never ending joy they will receive, and how all their enemies will be placed under their feet, every year wiped away and every suffering forgotten, on that day, you would be willing to suck a billion cocks if it meant that God would accept you into his house.
>>18361485If God commanded you, would you kill your son?
>>18361521Yes. And if I had to throw him into the flames as a burnt offering just as God commanded it as a punishment to the Israelites, I would do it. But I would not mourn, since my child would be in heavens with Jesus and the saints.
>>18361506>>18361512>>18361519Do you unironically believe this shit or is it just a tradLARP>>18361518Trve>>18361521No, that would make that God evil
>>18361529>Do you unironically believe this shit or is it just a tradLARPCalling faith a LARP tells me just how insincere and cynical you are as a person.
>>18361530Rather it seems that I'm the only one being sincere here.
>>18361529>Do you unironically believe this shit or is it just a tradLARPI believe 100%. I have seen God's glory.
>>18361549We are fools for Christ.
>>18361529>that would make that God evilWhy?
>>18361586Do you not consider murdering infants evil?
>>18361593Murder is unlawful killing, if God commands it, it's not murder.Also>infantsWho said anything about infants? I said your son.
>>18361593If God commands it, it cannot be evil. Sin is a transgression against God. And sin is evil. If God commands it, it is not a sin
Some hebrew scribe with sand in his asscrack wrote a story about why bad things happen to good people and it became a way to explain away all the chaotic random shit that happens.>Hey Timothy the shepherd got struck by lightning but he was a faithful man, what gives?>God did it shut up he's just proving a point.
>>18361521Would you circumcise yourself too if jahova told you too?
>>18361597>>18361599That's such an incredibly evil and immoral way of thinking. Thank God I'm not a Christian.
>>18361680>That's such an incredibly evil and immoral way of thinking.Murder as unlawful killing is found in every single legal code ever founded by human societies. It's not a foreign concept, all societies have known that not all killing is murder and is dependant on context.
>>18361682We're not talking about killing generally. Your arguement is specifically "killing and torturing babies is morally justifiable and good if my God says so". That's pure evil my man, so is any God or any person who'd follow a God calling for such things.It also implies your nature is one of a total psychopath with no innate morality who only doesn't commit mass murder or rape because a book you believe in says not to, rather than because of human nature and common sense.
>>18361696>It also implies your nature is one of a total psychopath with no innate moralityNo, I'm simply morally humble to not presume to know morality perfectly, so whenever God corrects me I accept it wholeheartedly and trust that He knows better than me.Or to put it simply: I follow my heart up until God tells me otherwise.
>>18361713And if God told you to cut your cock off and eat it like a sausage, you'd do so and say thanks to him for the privilege?What if you believe God tells you to do something that would ordinarily be evil, but it's merely a hallucination? Do you see the danger in this idea of doing whatever the voices tell you to?
>>18361741No, because God would never let me be misled.
>>18361741>What if you believe God tells you to do something that would ordinarily be evil, but it's merely a hallucination?Then I'd be deceived. Simple.>Do you see the danger in this idea of doing whatever the voices tell you to?Stop strawmaning me. I never said to listen to "voices". If you think you're receiving a message from God, that's why you have to put it to the test. Which is what God does all the time in the Bible, when he speaks to someone he tells them of miracles that he will perform in order to confirm that it is indeed him.
>>18361597>>18361599>you can't have morals if you don't believe in God>immediately throws away any sense of morals if their imaginary sky daddy tells them to do something evil
>>18361519God is Marvel?
>>18361751>>you can't have morals if you don't believe in GodYou can't justify your morals without God. You can follow whatever rule you want, but it'd be arbitrary and not grounded on anything. Thus making your morality suprefluous.>>immediately throws away any sense of morals if their imaginary sky daddy-Stopped reading right there. Engage in good faith and stop throwing insults or we're done here.
>>18361756>You can't justify your morals without God.Why not? Why is it so hard for Christians to accept people will create morals out of their own self interests so society doesn't collapse into total anarchy.>You can follow whatever rule you want, but it'd be arbitrary and not grounded on anythingIt would be grounded on the common good of the society you live in. Civilizations can't function if you allow people to do whatever they want without punishment.
>>18361788>people will create morals out of their own self interestsYeah, that's the problem, they'll build their morals based on their own self interest and modify them whenever it's no longer in their favor.>It would be grounded on the common good of the society you live in.You just said that people will build their morality based on their own self-interest, and whenever society doesn't benefit them anymore, they'll bend their morals. That's when corruption, fraud, theft, and many other things start to heppen.
>>18361519All your superpowers will be taken away from you if you disobey God.
>>18361382Now read Ecclesiastes. Then Song of Songs
>*God does things*>NO GOD WOULDN'T DO THAT!>You just read that he did>BUT HE WOULDN'T DO THAT!Why does logic go right out the window when people read the Bible ?God isn't a fairytale skydaddy, he is not going to be exactly the way you want him to be.If you read that God ordered for something violent, what does this mean, it means that God ordered for something violent. It's basic character study.
>>18361830Even if you gather Kant, Plato, Zarathustra and 10 other philosophers, they will all say in unison that people are idiots, stop justifying idiots with metaphysics
>>18361795>Yeah, that's the problem, they'll build their morals based on their own self interest and modify them whenever it's no longer in their favor.It's in the best interest of most people to generally get along with each other. If you fuck over everyone you meet you will quickly be isolated, imprisoned, or executed.>You just said that people will build their morality based on their own self-interest, and whenever society doesn't benefit them anymore, they'll bend their morals. That's when corruption, fraud, theft, and many other things start to heppen.Selfishness is part of human nature. That is why we create laws and enforce punishments to stop people from acting on their darker instincts. Every religion has had tons of terrible people. There will always be some psychos that will do whatever they want. Belief in God has never stopped them before.
>>18361848>It's in the best interest of most people to generally get along with each other.If that were the case corruption, fraud, nepotism and theft wouldn't happen. These things happen specifically because people find themselves in situations in which fucking over somebody else benefits them.>If you fuck over everyone you meet you will quickly be isolated, imprisoned, or executed.Only if you get caught, and even then, if you have enough money you can get away pretty much scott free. There are many cases of people just getting away with things.>That is why we create laws and enforce punishments to stop people from acting on their darker instincts.Which is exactly what God does.> There will always be some psychos that will do whatever they want.Then by that logic your morality isn't worth anything either.>Belief in God has never stopped them before.False, I know people who changed their ways due to religion.
>>18361857>If that were the case corruption, fraud, nepotism and theft wouldn't happenLike I said selfishness will always be a part of human nature, but that doesn't mean everyone will always act on it.>Only if you get caught, and even then, if you have enough money you can get away pretty much scott free. There are many cases of people just getting away with things.True, but those who are caught usually will face some form of punishment. Punishments are also a preventive measure to deter others.>Which is exactly what God does.Humans created those laws and punishments. The 10 Commandments and all other religious moral laws were created by people.>Then by that logic your morality isn't worth anything either.The majority pf people aren't psychos with no regard for laws.>False, I know people who changed their ways due to religion.Your few personal examples pale in comparison to thousands of years of crimes by religious people.
its my favorite book of the bible, so well written
>>18361809Nobody can disobey God in the new age that's to come because God will write his law in our hearts so we will do what is righteous by nature and by instinct and will have no impulse to ever do what is wrong even by accident. To those who endure the temptations of evil while evil exists will be granted to live in a evil less world forever.
>>18361755Marvel heroes are the pagan gods.
>>18361682By your logic the Aztecs performing ritualistic human sacrifice is not considered evil, since it's condoned by the society and the context of the sacrifice is to help the sun god rise the next morning, thus helping all of humanity.
There's a kind of unreality to the book of Job. Like its trying to prove something larger than us.
>>18361382For me it was the end of Johns gospel.
>>18361405>No human being is innocent.The book literally opens by saying Job was innocent.>There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
>>18362794Job put Satan to shame. God knew he could vouch for him.
>>18361425"Sounds like a justification for an evil God"Contradiction. the definition of evil is to be against God. By defnintion, God is good. Whatever He does is Holy, regardless what it looks like to a human mind that is broken and fallen in nature. All definitions of good besides from "what God approves of", as well as all other definitions of evil besides from "what God is against of", is a human delusion at best, and more likely a malicious lie to lead humans away from Truth.
>>18361385> God knows he acted immorally and has to make amends with mankind, so he sends Christ to earth
>>18362707>By your logic the Aztecs performing ritualistic human sacrifice is not considered evilIn their system it wasn't, correct.>since it's condoned by the society and the context of the sacrifice is to help the sun god rise the next morning, thus helping all of humanity.Right, but then the Spanish arrived and that changed.
>>18363005Someone hasn't read their Euthyphro. >Muh Divine Command theoryPutting babies into a blender is "good" if "God tells you" to do it?
>>18363152There just be a good reason the oldest and most intelligent being in existence would ask you to do it, even if your monkey brain cannot understand how could this possibly be a good thing to do, it would be wise to listen to him instead of tour own reasoning.
The reason Christians argue so much about the meaning of the Book of Job is because it's not for them, it's fundamentally Jewish. Christians really don't seem to understand Judaism, they think it's just Christianity minus Jesus but it isn't. Jews do not believe that God is all good and always looking out for your best interests 24/7, they believe that he's a very flawed, human, spiteful, and sadistic being like early pagan gods. To Jews, the meaning of the Book of Job is "God may decide to just randomly ruin your life and torture you for ridiculous arbitrary reasons beyond your understanding, you need to accept that and be ready for it if it happens."
>>18363194What if you are listening to a demon? I guess you'll have to use your OWN standard of right and wrong to judge. Again, read your Euthyphro—Plato and Socrates were talking about this hundreds of years before anyone had heard of Jesus.
>>18363207When God has a mission for you he makes sure you known it's him. He will make you witness miraculous things. You think Abraham just suddenly decided to obey some random voice? God had already given him reasons to trust him.
>>18363206>they believe that he's a very flawed, human, spiteful, and sadistic being like early pagan gods.I spit on your face.
>>18363254always an insult or a deflection, never a denial
>>18363253Abraham probably never existed, his story makes no sense like much of the Hebrew Bible.>Hey sacrifice your child>lol I was just kidding Imagine worshipping a trickster god.
>>18363291>Confidently incorrect.
