Were chariots really used on the battlefield or were they just transport and a platform for nobles to wave their dicks around?
>>18362044It was actually one the most useless things ever created
>>18362044Probably good for running down archers.
>>18362044Initially used for transportation, since that's what the PIE used horses for. Their use allowed for the management of large herds of cattle scattered across extensive pasture areas, something impossible to do on foot alone. The PIE family leader would ride a horse, covering miles in a few hours to find a place with water (a river or lake) and fresh grass. This avoided moving the cattle along a blind path. The PIE herder used the horse to move around the herd. The horse facilitates quick movement, directing the animals without exhausting physical effort from the human. While the cattle grazed, the herder would ride on the periphery, using the height and speed of the horse to gather stray cattle and prevent predators from attacking, allowing the herd to spread over a much larger area, ensuring better food. They were already doing this even before the invention of the horse saddle, so they had a closer relationship with horses, if you understand what I'm saying.What transformed the chariot into a weapon and symbol of power/nobility was the invention of spoked wheels by Sintashta (descendants of IE who returned/continued living as in the Steppes unlike their neolithized European cousins) which, unlike solid wheels, were easy to make, lighter, and transform the the slow wagons into faster chariots. The invention of spoked wheels was more important than the invention of chariots, although the origin of one is linked to the other, as it increased transportation among ancient civilizations when it was driven by livestock in now faster wagons. With the invention of the horse saddle and the popularization of mounted archery, the chariot stopped running.
>>18362096>Very expensive and more of a waste of the economy than its military effectiveness.>only a limited part had access, Because chariots are so expensive and training a team of charioteers takes a lot of time and even more money, your state basically has to funnel most of its resources to the army.>fell into complete oblivion when horses became big enough to be ridden, being a toy for the elite, that's all.>It was not practical to fight wars centered on chariot skirmishes. The chariots went from shock equipment to tertiary use and then left the battle completely.>better and more professional armies also made riot chariot tactics very easy to fight.>After saddles and stirrups improved, a carriage became a waste of resources for the same purpose.>If used as an archers' mobile nest/fortification, battle wagons were sturdier, could carry more people or things, and were more useful when not moving, i.e. useless.>Nestor says they lined up and attacked with their spears, as if they were jousting with chariots. Well, that's impractical and it shouldn't be necessary to explain why. Yes, as I said before they were basically for shock attack that after this was overcome, the chariot fell into oblivion.Indo-troons lost
>>18362096>With the invention of the horse saddle and the popularization of mounted archery, the chariot stopped runningAlso because they ceased to be a monopoly of the descendants of the Proto-Indo-Iranians/Aryans and people who were neighbors/interact with them. What I find ironic is that it was the Scythians, descendants of the Sintashta who remained in Central Asia, who were pioneers in this. Another irony is that the earliest evidence we have of saddles comes from Afanasievo descendants in China, and the Chinese used chariots after the Iron Age until the beginning of Classical Antiquity even though they were probably the first after the Subeshi who to use saddles. They are also candidates for being the Iron Age predecessors of the Tocharians.>There is evidence, though disputed, that humans first began riding the horse not long after domestication, possibly as early as 4000 BC. The earliest saddle known thus far was discovered inside a woman's tomb in the Turpan basin, in what is now Xinjiang, China, dating to between 727–396 BC. The saddle is made of cushioned cow hide, and shows signs of usage and repair. The tomb is associated with the Subeixi Culture, which is associated with the Jushi Kingdom described in later Chinese sources. The Subeixi people had contact with Scythians, and share a similar material culture with the Pazyryk culture, where later saddles were found>Horse archery first developed during the Iron Age, gradually replacing the Bronze Age chariot
>>18362111>Massed-chariot warfare became all but obsolete after the Warring-States period (476–221 BC). The main reasons were increased use of the crossbow, use of long halberds up to 18 feet (5.49 m) long and pikes up to 22 feet (6.71 m) long, and the adoption of standard cavalry units, and the adaptation of mounted archery from nomadic cavalry, which were more effective. Chariots would continue to serve as command posts for officers during the Qin dynasty (221–206 BC) and the Han dynasty (206 BC–220 AD), while armored chariots were also used during the Han dynasty against the Xiongnu Confederation in the Han–Xiongnu War (133 BC to 89 AD), specifically at the Battle of Mobei (119 BC)>>18362106Read my entire text. To get one chariot archer, you need the following (at a minimum):>An archer>A driver>A chariot>Two horsesTo get one horse archer, you need the following:>An archer>A horseIn the West, chariots were for the most part only advantageous as long as horses were inadequate (largely because of size/strength) to carry a single armed/armored rider. As soon as the breeding of horses reached a point where they could carry a warrior by themselves, chariots began to lose out to cavalry. The chariot was an expensive combat system, affordable only by an elite like the Maryannu in the Middle Eastern, horse archers were a comparative steal, and steppe societies in particular could field massive numbers of them. This is not even to get into all the other advantages cavalry have over chariots, like mobility, maintenance, durability, and so on.
Ignore the spammer.War chariots and their prototypes emerged with the Abashevo and Sintashta cultures. But the Catacomb culture seems to have used disc-shaped side pieces, crucial to horse harnesses, which spread with the technology of war chariots and draft horses before the Sintashta chariot warriors. So perhaps the concept of "chariot" is as old as the Yamnaya, but not used for war, as you said, but for transport.>Since the whole Sintashta phenomenon was likely developed not in the Urals, but elsewhere, chariot technology also likely developed before the year 2000 BC in the Sintashta homeland, which is the Don–Volga interfluve. The reference point might be two-wheeled carts from the Catacomb culture, the Sintashta predecessor, dated to cal. 2400–2200 BC. These might be the prototypes for the later Sintashta–Petrovka chariot complex.Sources: Chechushkov, I.V.; Epimakhov, A.V. (2018)."Eurasian Steppe Chariots and Social Complexity During the Bronze Age
>>18362116Related pic.
>>18362117>>18362116Who besides the Greeks used it in the land of the Aryans (Europe)?
>>18362118>besides the GreeksVirtually various Indo-European peoples, we don't know exactly when the Celtic languages entered the British Isles, but the cultural importance of the chariot was definitely present from the La Tène period and possibly earlier, with Unetice and similar figures. Irish literature holds an admiration for the chariot almost like the Vedic texts at times; it was very well known in Nordic Bronze Age societies, when the astounding spoked wheeled chariot arrived – along with swords and other ideas – it was recognized as something divine and integrated into the cosmology.swan or swallow-drawn chariot is replicated by bird-pulled chariot stories in various IE mythologies, so it likely has an earlier IE origin or could have spread to Greece through broader interactions with the rest of IE Europe. The solar cross motif was already present in the north when the spoked-wheel chariot arrived (perhaps in 1700 BC) via the Carpathians (probably). So, at least in the Aegean, Carpathians, and central Europe, and consequently the north, the chariot was not only used but had religious implications.
>>18362118celts
>>18362129>>18362118See the Dupljaja Chariots, Carpathian Basin, late Bronze Age c.1600 Sources: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/european-journal-of-archaeology/article/early-chariots-and-religion-in-southeast-europe-and-the-aegean-during-the-bronze-age-a-reappraisal-of-the-dupljaja-chariot-in-context/DC2A0FC7066548E7C0FED0C9024169B3
>>18362131Also Thracians
>>18362129Kino Chariot tech originated on the steppe by eurogods and spread to both central Europe and Egypt some time after about 1700 BC. We won again kek
>>18362113My point is about spoked wheels. If horse saddles and mounted archery hadn't been invented, chariots would continue to have been used, outside of China, until Classical Antiquity, spreading through Africa via Egypt (which obtained them from the Hyksos), and Sub-Saharan Africa would have had wheels before European Colonization (it's ironic that bicycles and motor vehicles were invented during the very First and Second Industrial Revolutions that caused the Great Divergence and, after the invention of Quinine against Malaria, allowed the Colonization of Africa).>>18362114>>18362116>>18362117Cope.Vehicle driven by horse/cattle with solid wheels = wagonVehicle driven by horse/cattle with spoked wheels = chariotChariot comes from the Proto-Indo-European root *kers-, meaning "to run," referencing a fast-moving vehicle. Wagons are not fast, and Yamnaya/Catacomb did not have spoked wheels.We have engravings from the Third Dynasty of Ur showing wagons used by onagers, and they are explicitly shown as mere means of transport. If even the Sumerians, an fucking advanced civilization, couldn't wage direct war with solid wheels and such, what makes you think a bunch of cattle-herding warrior tribes from Ukraine are going to do that?
>>18362161I forgot to quote this retard as well:>>18362047Think more about spoked wheels, less about chariots.
>>18362129>>18362116Interesting, anon, thank you for sharing. I wonder if the Aryans/Europeans had close, intimate contact with their steppe brethren.
>>18362170It is possible, given that at least before 1700 BC, the use of copper in the interior of Europe was a relatively new idea, but it spread very rapidly, analogously to the use of antenna swords. Copper from the Urals reached intermediate trading areas in the Near East and the Eurasian steppes. Specifically, the exchange of copper and tin for bronze production between the Aegean and distant regions like the Urals is supported by archaeological evidence, isotopic analyses, and trade routes, and considering how interconnected Europe was in the Bronze Age, it wouldn't be far-fetched to presume something similar with other eastern EuropeansSee: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2352409X24002116those of copper ores from the Southern Urals,Besides their mining expertise, chariots were also manufactured there, so it makes sense.
>>18362135Where?
>>18362194burying noblemen with their chariots and horses was a prominent Thracian culture
>>18362096>>18362111>>18362113>>18362161>>18362169Also, OP, I forgot to ask something: Did you create this thread because of the final announcement of JoJo's Part 7? It's about horses and wheelchairs after all. Speaking of which, did you know that Hot-wheels, the creator of 8-chan, died at the beginning of last month?
>>183622044 wheeled? What?
>>18362208Chariots from different regions, such as Chinese, Egyptian, English, and European, had varied designs and uses, although they followed the same layout, actually the shape of the wheels, the axle, and the number of spokes influenced mobility, durability, and load capacity. Some were made for long distances, others for difficult terrain or heavy transport. Much technology and labor were invested in them, demonstrating their importance. Every detail made a difference in use and maintenance. The user above, for example, to travel long distances through the dense jungle and rivers of the Amazon, probably uses differentiated chariot pulled by jaguars.
>>18362215Reconstruction
>>18362117Perhaps they used this for transportation in a war context? I don't think it would be very useful for carrying a family there. The same goes for the Yamnaya horses; perhaps they weren't used for war itself, but for transportation in war contexts, it's possible.
>>18362223I've already thought about that, and the authors seem to consider this possibility, in fact. Unfortunately, the Volga and surrounding regions are poorly studied archaeologically.
>>18362161>We have engravings from the Third Dynasty of Ur showing wagons used by onagers, and they are explicitly shown as mere means of transport. If even the Sumerians, an fucking advanced civilization, couldn't wage direct war with solid wheels and such, what makes you think a bunch of cattle-herding warrior tribes from Ukraine are going to do that?The ignorance that disgusts me the most about wheels is that, because the spoked wheel became so superior and popular/used to the solid wheel, IEfags end up confusing the two and think that the IE invented solid wheels, the firsts wheels. If that were the case, the Sumerians would have had horses since they learned about wheels from the PIE/IE or people connected to them, before the Gutians/Kassites.
Sintashta aryopeans developed chariots and bred the chariot horses, which then spread from there across Eurasia and africa and we know this from diagnostic artefacts like disc shaped cheek pieces and horse DNA that this is the case.Neolithic eurochads people were using wagons in northern Europe in 3400 BC.This is the earliest securely dated wheel use anywhere in the world. As you might imagine, it was a popular technology and spread rapidly onto the steppe and into the near east within a couple of centuries. Before mesopocuckiansDasazilian bros?
>>18362268Notice how the anger and frustration towards "Europeans," and particularly indo-Europeans themselves is so great from this specific user that he resorts to straw man—examples that *no one even mentioned in this thread*—to perpetuate his peculiar schizophrenias. There's something wrong with this girlm I'm not sure if it's simply complex. Creepy
>>18362285nobody talked about caster wheel or who invented them or didn't invent them
>>18362268>Sintashta aryopeans developed chariotsAnd what about when I said it wasn't them, you intruder Argensimio?>Neolithic eurochads people were using wagons in northern Europe in 3400 BCAnd what about when I said it wasn't them, you intruder Argensimio?I AM TALKING ABOUT SOLID WHEELS, NOT WAGONS OR CHARIOTS, YOU MORON.HOW CAN THE SUMERIANS LEARN ABOUT SOLID WHEELS FROM PIE/IE TO BUILT WAGONS AND CONTINUE WITHOUT HORSES UNTIL THE TIME OF THE GUTIANS/KASSITES?You'll never answer that question.>>18362285>>18362295Most of the threads about wheels revolves around who invented them, you cynic circlejerking retard.
>>18362295Yep, we're talking about chariots specifically made for war; "solid" wheels are irrelevant because they're not even part of the statement—it's just a straw man argument.
>>18362268>Neolithic eurochads people were using wagons in northern Europe in 3400 BC.That's new I didn't know that Where did you get that from?
>>18362312Common knowledge The retarded ones believe that Mesopotamia was the birthplace of the wheel, but that's false, as usual new discoveries in Europe have shown that we created the wheel and also that they had ox-drawn wagons on the steppe in 3300 BC. We know this because sometimes they buried people with wagons and/or wagon wheels. oldest evidence for wheels which is from Germany You can see how the earliest wheels are from Germany
>>18362311This was the donkey-like animal that the Sumerians used in their wagons. Why do they despise horses from steppes so much? Is it because of a blind sense of superiority stemming from having a civilization?>>18362311Vehicles with solid wheels are not chariots. Yamnaya/Catacomb did not have spoked wheels, therefore they didn't have chariots, only wagons. Deal with it.
>>18362321>>18362312NTAbut it is interesting to note how Funnelbeaker had connections to southeast Europe and to Cucuteni-Trypillia culture, which connects to the steppe
>>18362321>>18362330I just did some research here, but from what I could understand, the oldest preserved wheel and axle, from Slovenia? And like, how old is the war chariot itself? Noob here sorry
>>18362337>SloveniaOnly the Oldest preservedAs said before oldest evidence for wheels tho, which comes from northern Europe before Mesopotamia, who we influenced and actually created the first civilizion.
>>18362341>and actually created the first civilizion.And we created the first civilizion
>>18362321Are you talking about that?>The world’s oldest wheel was found in 2002 at an archaeological site approximately 12.5 miles (20 kilometers) south-west of Ljubljana in present-day Slovenia. The wheel, dating to Copper Age (c. 3130 BCE), is made from oak and ash and has a radius of 27.5 inches (70 centimeters)>The wooden wheel belonged to a prehistoric two-wheel cart – a pushcart. Similar wheels have been found in the hilly regions of Switzerland and southwest Germany, but the Ljubljana Marshes wheel is bigger and older. It shows that wooden wheels may have appeared almost simultaneously in Mesopotamia and Europe, though finds of actual wheels from Mesopotamia date from significantly laterThe Sumerian civilization was contemporary with the Yamnaya and the Andronovo, and like all civilizations, it had advanced agriculture. Advanced agriculture required plowing with cattle, and this necessitated wagons. How did the Sumerians develop a civilization, plowing with cattle, and wagons without having invented the solid wheel?You'll never answer that question. Because you're nothing more than a stupid LARPer wignat. If tomorrow geneticists reveal that the Sumerians had Steppe/R1b, you'll stop despising them. A man who doesn't have a fixed moral compass doesn't deserve fixed treatment.>>18362344Civilization comes from the latin 'civitas' its the roman equivalent of the greek polis, or city state. It refers to the body of citizens. In greek 'politi' civilization in greek is 'politismos' in the same word cluster as 'politeia' from which we get politics. A civilization as we know it, is not just a settlement, everyone can have a settlement, a civilization is the development of its civitates, the citizens.
>>18362337>how old is the war chariot itself? Noob here sorryas I briefly explained here>>18362116It's possible they developed horse-drawn chariots before Sintashta. Perhaps not for warfare itself, but rather prototypes... They and the Catacomb culture seem to have used disc-shaped cheek protectors—a crucial piece of horse harness that spread with chariot technology and chariot horses—before Sintashta's chariot warriors .Abashevo chariots are evidenced by disc cheek pieces
>>18362350This is a very european idea since Rome, heir of Greece, is located in Italy and Roman Law was preserved by the Catholic Church, considering eastern civilization were and still are extremely focused on metaphysics unlike Europeans. They did this as a way to enforce conformity.Greeks, especially the ancient ones, are among the Europeans with the fewest Steppe.>In their archaeogenetic study published in Nature, Lazaridis et al. (2017) found that Minoans and Mycenaean Greeks were genetically highly similar - but not identical and that modern Greeks descend from these populations. The FST between the sampled Bronze Age populations and present-day West Eurasians was estimated, finding that Mycenaean Greeks and Minoans were least differentiated from the populations of modern Greece, Cyprus, Albania, and Italy. In a subsequent study, Lazaridis et al. (2022) concluded that around ~58.4-65.8% of the DNA of the Mycenaeans and ~70.9-76.7% of the Minoans came from Early European Farmers (EEF), while the remainder came from ancient populations related to the Caucasus Hunter-Gatherers (CHG) (Mycenaeans ~20.1-22.7%, Minoans ~17-19.4%) and the Pre-Pottery Neolithic (PPN) culture (Mycenaeans ~7-14%, Minoans ~3.9-9.5%). Unlike the Minoans, the Mycenaeans had also inherited ~3.3-5.5% ancestry from a source related to the Eastern European Hunter-Gatherers (EHG), introduced via a proximal source related to the inhabitants of the Pontic-Caspian steppe (Western Steppe Herders) who are hypothesized to be the Proto-Indo-Europeans, and ~0.9-2.3% from the Iron Gates Hunter-Gatherers in the Balkans>inb4 Logkas Women in a cave did not build Greek Philosophy and Civilization.
>>18362344>>18362341Thank you for sharing. Which civilization were we talking about?>>18362353Oh i see
>>18362357>Which civilization were we talking about?Cucuteni-Trypillia civilization. 5000 - 3000 BC in Romania, Moldova, and Ukraine and their most astounding innovation is their vast settlements covering up to 450 hectares *even larger than the first cities of Sumer in Mesopotamia* and perhaps even the oldest proto-writing system
>>18362355>Unlike the Minoans, the Mycenaeans had also "4–16% ancestry from a 'northern' ultimate source related to the hunter-gatherers of Eastern Europe and [Upper Palaeolithic] Siberia"; however, Lazaridis et al. admit that they "cannot model Mycenaeans as a mixture of Anatolian Neolithic and steppe populations [...] due to the fact that Mycenaeans have more Iran-related than EHG-related ancestry". Among the Mycenaean samples was found one Y-DNA J2a1, and two mtDNA X2, one X2d and one H>The name Europe is generally believed to have Greek origins, likely deriving from Eurṓpē (Εὐρώπη), which combines eurús ("wide") and ōps/op- ("eye, face, countenance"), meaning "wide-gazing" or "broad aspect". It is associated with the mythological Phoenician princess abducted by Zeus, and may also root in Semitic terms for "west" or "sunset" (e.g., Akkadian erebu)>Caucasus Hunter-Gatherers (CHG) (Mycenaeans ~20.1-22.7%, Minoans ~17-19.4%) and the Pre-Pottery Neolithic (PPN) culture (Mycenaeans ~7-14%, Minoans ~3.9-9.5%)Erebubros...
>>18362362Kino Holy shit I didn't know about this! Where was I when this was discovered? Did I sleep too much in history class? Gigakek But how exactly did they fall?
>>18362365>But how exactly did they fall?It's hard to say, maybe it was invasions by the Yamnaya or Srendy Stog Aryans? The climate? Or mass abandonment that occurred in various EEF societies? It's hard to say, I think it was all of that together when the first urban centres were developing in Mesopotamia, the largest settlements in the world were actually to be found in Eastern Europe.
>>18362367Bigger than Mesopotamia mud favelas
>>18362116>Ignore the spammer.I automatically ignore anyone who attaches AI crap to his posts
>>18362362>even larger than the first cities of Sumer in Mesopotamia and perhaps even the oldest proto-writing systemTrying to play dirty with me? I can do that too, intrudertinian. Creating something first doesn't necessarily mean it's the best, as the Chinese teach us.Something curious about the Chinese, in European history several inventions and events sparked their entire world changing, numerous of these things also occurring in China earlier but not having the same world altering spark that it did in Europe, some key ones being the printing press, the caravel, the sea expeditions into unknown waters, and development of firearms. >Printing PressThe printing press I personally consider to being one of the most important inventions before the Industrial Revolution, being able to mass produce literature allowed for information to spread to the masses encouraging ideas and knowledge to spread, in the immediate centuries afterwards europe saw extreme increases in literacy among the population and profound social changes leading to the enlightenment, hell not even a century after its creation it was one of the key factors in the rise of Protestantism which altered the societies of the entire Northern part of the continent. Bibles being available in large quantities meant people could read it for themselves and not have to listen to someone else explain and interpret it for them. The Arab world rejected it for centuries and lagged behind badly and the asian world who had invented their own form of printing press centures before guttenburg was born seemingly kept its use reserved just for the already literate bureaucratic aristocracy.
>>18362372>>18362367Very kino thank youSome links? Please?
>>18362376Sure, there's literature available about this online. You can start with related photos. I don't have any links, but you can easily find them on Google Mud slums weren't the first civilization or the first wheel unlike us
>>18362375>CaravelAround the same time as the Printing Press's creation incidently the caravel had been created by the Portuguese, this superior vessel to the older style galleys let Europeans sail to every corner of the world, amazingly the chinese had even far better sea vessels and shipbuilding techniques long before the caravel had been made, and as we recall from the age of eEropean marine empires there is a lot of money to be made in that entire corner of the world be it trade with india or the spice islands, the chinese empire had viciously restricted ship construction until eventually most of it was burned or rotted away.>Expeditions and ExplorationThe man who discovered the Americas and who I consider to be the person who indirectly set off the age of european Colonialism was a bumbling moron, Christopher Columbus was an absolutely retarded mong who had screwed up his calculations on how big the earth was and thought the Atlantic Ocean was smaller than it actually was, had the Americas not been there the dumb ass would have likely been killed in a mutiny, its why Native Americans are called Indians, the ginzo thought he landed in India. China in turn has the absolute chad version of columbus, Zheng He who went on several voyages from East Africa to all over Asia and is even suggested to have landed in the Americas. With the loss of the Chinese treasure fleets due to their ridiculous bureaucracy any hope of a Chinese age of sail died while the europeans centuries later would dominate the entire globe.
>>18362362From wiki >They have sometimes been described as an example of proto-writing.[5] The symbols went out of use around 3500 BC.[6] Many scholars agree that the "writing" itself is not based on any language whatsoever and it is mostly symbolicFurthermore, Vinča houses were considerably larger than those of almost all other contemporary European cultures.
>>18362116>>18362353Tell me more
>>18362380>FirearmsThe Chinese who discovered gunpowder and invented firearms had failed to continue their innovation, middle easterners and europeans had instead continued their development until the middle eastern world lagged behind where as the europeans kept improving, The result of firearms just in Europe was one of the key factors in ending Feudalism where as a knight who spent his whole life training clad in shiny (and incredibly expensive) armor could reliably get merked by a peasant holding a musket who spent 6 weeks training, the opium wars and subsequent century of humiliation was where centuries of invention met centuries of stagnationThere is absolutely no reason why the Chinese shouldnt have dominated the world in the past before the Europeans did, every ground breaking innovation and invention that fundamentally altered European society for the better eventually leading to both world spanning empires and the industrial revolution had appeared in China before they did in Europe.
>>18362384We created the oldest cities, the wheel, industrial metallurgy since the Bronze Age, chainmail armor, we went to the moon, we conquered the entire planet since the Neolithic, holy shit, we won again.
>>18362387I cited a source to this anon>>18362116But if you want another source, although older, there is also one: https://www.academia.edu/35958996/The_Warfare_of_the_Northern_Pontic_Steppe_Forest_Steppe_Pastoral_Societies_2750_2000_B_C_Catacomb_Culture_Nomadism_and_Pastoralism_in_the_Circle_of_Baltic_Pontic_Early_Agrarian_Cultures_5000_1650_B_C_Pozna%C5%84_1994_Baltic_Pontic_Studies_vol_2_%D1%80_196_215Very useful article on prototypes of "chariots"
>>18362375>>18362380>>18362388To humiliate you in the ultimate way. The Chinese also invented the wheelbarrow, which revolutionized building construction.>The earliest wheelbarrows with archaeological evidence in the form of a one-wheel cart come from second-century Han dynasty Emperor Hui's tomb murals and brick tomb reliefs. The painted tomb mural of a man pushing a wheelbarrow was found in a tomb at Chengdu, Sichuan province, dated precisely to 118 AD. The stone carved relief of a man pushing a wheelbarrow was found in the tomb of Shen Fujun in Sichuan province, dated circa 150 AD. And then there is the story of the pious Dong Yuan pushing his father around in a single-wheel luche barrow, depicted in a mural of the Wu Liang tomb-shrine of Shandong (dated to AD 147). Earlier accounts dating to the 1st century BC and 1st century AD that mention a "deer cart" (鹿車, luche) might also have been referencing a wheelbarrow>The 5th-century Book of Later Han stated that the wife of the once poor and youthful imperial censor Bao Xuan helped him push a lu che back to his village during their feeble wedding ceremony, around 30 BC. Later, during the Red Eyebrows Rebellion (c. 20 AD) against Xin dynasty's Wang Mang (45 BC–23 AD), the official Zhao Xi saved his wife from danger by disguising himself and pushing her along in his lu che barrow, past a group of brigand rebels who questioned him, and allowed him to pass after he convinced them that his wife was terribly ill. The first recorded description of a wheelbarrow appears in Liu Xiang's work Lives of Famous Immortals. Liu describes the invention of the wheelbarrow by the legendary Chinese mythological figure Ko Yu, who builds a "Wooden ox">By the 13th century, the wheelbarrow proved useful in building construction, mining operations, and agriculture. However, going by surviving documents and illustrations the wheelbarrow remained a relative rarity until the 15th century
>>18362395Cheers, thank you lil'bro
>>18362268I should mention the megalithic stone monuments particularly those of Ireland are superior to any burnt clay rubbish from Mesopotamia
>>18362044>>18362096I never understood the argument that it was some kind of shock weapon or superweapon or whatever. Even if you have a chariot with a driver and an archer and it can get closer to a line of infantry and retreat again, it has the firepower of 1 bowman. And it has to move into bow range, so enemy archers could answer with a volley or generally return fire. Moving target etc, so sure it has a good chance of survival, but the main point is that it is a lot of buck for very little offensive bang.You are not going to charge that thing into a cohesive unit, or you do it exactly one time.Cutting down the enemy after they broke is gonna be fine, and maybe to quickly move your nobles over a big battlefield to extend control and set a Schwerpunkt or focus for part of your troops.So it has some uses, but I fail to see why some (pop) historians celebrate them as some kind of Wunderwaffe.
WE WUZ INVENTORS OF WHEELS N' SHIET>Precursors of wheels, known as "tournettes" or "slow wheels", were known in the Middle East by the 5th millennium BCE (one of the earliest examples was discovered at Tepe Pardis, Iran, and dated to 5200–4700 BCE). These were made of stone or clay and secured to the ground with a peg in the center, but required effort to turn. True (freely-spinning) potter's wheels were apparently in use in Mesopotamia by 3500 BCE and possibly as early as 4000 BCE, and the oldest surviving example, which was found in Ur (modern day Iraq), dates to approximately 3100 BCE>Tepe Pardis is located in the Tehran plain and comprises a mound of some seven metres in height above the surrounding ground level. Three seasons of excavations at Tepe Pardis were undertaken in 2004, 2006 and 2007 (Coningham et al., 2004, Coningham et al., 2006; Fazeli et al., 2004, Fazeli et al., 2007b). In 2004 two stepped trenches I and II were excavated (Coningham et al., 2006) and in the excavations carried out in 2006 and 2007 seasons several trenches including two horizontal trenches I and II as well as one deep trench were excavated. Most of the pottery sherds recovered belonged to the Transitional Chalcolithic period with relatively fewer Middle and Late Chalcolithic examples>The deep trench (Trench VII) revealed the evidence of the Transitional Chalcolithic occupation at the depth of 7 m and the Late Neolithic deposits at its base. The presence of collapse material associated with kiln structures, suggested that the Transitional Chalcolithic settlements at Tepe Pardis were engaged in the pottery production (Fazeli et al., 2007b)>The three seasons of excavations at Tepe Pardis exposed over 60 square metres of mudbrick structures dating to the Transitional Chalcolithic, (Fazeli et al., 2007b), including five multi-chambered kilns, as well as a terracotta slow wheel (Fazeli et al., 2007b, Fazeli et al., 2010)
This is what the inferior Mesopotamians did:>created the first planned cities (Uruk, Ur, Lagash)>created the organized state with central government and bureaucracy>created the institutional monarchy>created public administration>created primitive written laws>created systematic taxation>created population censuses>created legal contracts>created property deeds>created courts and judges>created cuneiform writing, the oldest known>created administrative records>created written literature>created cards>created files>created libraries>created cylindrical seals>created signatures and document authentication>created the first literature of humanity>created the Epic of Gigamesh>created religious hymns>created written prayers>created creation myths>created poems>created proverbs>created rudimentary philosophical texts>created the sexagesimal number system (base 60)>created the division of time into 60 seconds, 60 minutes and 24 hours
>created the division of the circle into 360 degrees>created mathematical tables>created primitive algebra>created practical geometry>created calculation of areas and volumes>created astronomical records>created the lunar calendar>created the annual calendar>created the identification of visible planets>created the primitive zodiac>created rudimentary eclipse forecast>created astrology>created ziggurats, pyramid-shaped temples>created urban planning>created irrigation canals>created dams>created drainage systems>created primitive architectural arches>created the systematic use of bricks>created large-scale construction>created organized agriculture>created artificial irrigation>created the plow>created public warehouses>created planned economy>created long-distance trade>created primitive currency (silver by weight)>created accounting>created receipts>created salaries>created loans>created interest>created debts>created commercial contracts>created the wheel>created the potter's wheel>created wagons>created sailing boats>created the oven>created the first advanced copper and bronze metallurgy objects>created meteoric iron tools>created textiles>created weaving
>created beer>created artisanal mass production>created written laws>created legal codes>created regulated punishments>created property rights>created family rights>created legal marriage>created legal divorce>created inheritance>created adoption>created medical diagnoses>created registered treatments>created primitive pharmacopoeia>created simple surgery>created use of medicinal plants>created medical manuals>created distinction between physical and spiritual illness>created organized pantheon of gods>created priesthood>created temples>created religious rituals>created written prayers>created structured theology>created deities associated with natural forces>created concept of life after death>created formal schools (edubbas)>created CV>created teachers>created exams>created scribe training>created systematic teaching of writing and mathematics>created the foundations of urban civilization, science, law, economics, administration, education and literary culture
Chariots charged infantry directly at the battle of Kadesh.
Here the Hittite chariots are depicted with 3 soldiers to Egypt's 2. The third crew is possibly a shield-bearer, though the specific techniques used in bronze age warfare are a mystery and it is possible the Hittites had both 3 and 2 crewed chariots.
>>18362407Actually, I think that what they had—mud huts at the beginning of Mesopotamian civilization—was the norm, but we were already using planned stone constructions long before.>Skara Brae>made offlagstones, in earthen dams that provided support for the walls; the houses included stonehearths, beds, and cupboards.[1]A primitive sewer system, with "toilets" and drains in each house,[2][3]included water used to flush waste into a drain and out to the ocean>>18362372It's likely there are older urban sites than the Mesopotamian ones, but they're harder to find due to environmental factors .
The terrain around Kadesh was flat with only brush at most, more likely intensely cultivated farmland. The Hittites first crossed the river, which is quite thin at points, then charged a group of unprepared Egyptian infantry and routed them. We see here classic "shock" tactics also be used by cavalry for 1000s of years.The chariots pursued them to the Egyptian camp where they also broke a formation of prepared infantry. However the chariots had now lost the element of surprise, their own formations had broken up and become disorganized in the chaos and confusion and the camp itself limited their mobility. The Egyptian army was also far larger than anything the Hittites had encountered before, this being their first conflict against a superpower.The famous Pharaoh Rameses II described being alone and surrounded by Hittite chariots, had he been killed they might have routed the entire army as cavalry accomplished in many other battles where they made a b-line for the enemy commander. He of course survived and with command and control intact rallied his troops for a push back into the camp.
>At this site, archaeologists excavated seven so-called long barrows, Stone Age megalithic graves as well as 14 burial mounds. With the help of radiocarbon dating, they could verify that the site, due to its shape known as the “Flintbek Sickle”, was already used for the first burials as early as ca. 5800 years ago.>At this time, people first built long barrows, which they steadily enlarged through successive additions. During the early phase, they also constructed burial mounds with small stone chambers, so-called dolmens.>Radiocarbon dating, performed in the VERA laboratory (Vienna Environmental Research Accelerator) inVienna, showed that it was approximately 5,100 to 5,350 years old, which makes it the oldest wooden wheel yet discovered. It was discovered by a team ofSlovenearcheologists from the Ljubljana Institute of Archaeology, a part of the Research Center at theSlovene Academy of Arts and Sciences, under the guidance of Anton Velušček>The Ljubljana Marshes Wheel, the oldest known transport wheel, discovered in Slovenia and estimated to be between 5100 and 5350 years old>The oldest surviving example, which was found inUr(modern dayIraq), dates to approximately 3100BCE>wheel and axle mechanism, were developed inMesopotamia(Iraq) by 4200–4000BCELMAOYes, we invented the wheels and even proto-cities
>>18362948This coward has already shown himself to be an imbecile by being refuted for the 13th time this week, using outdated sources from 2007 hahahahahahaha
>>18362948>The Ljubljana Marshes Wheel, the oldest known transport wheel, discovered in Slovenia and estimated to be between 5100 and 5350 years oldThis is 3324-3074 BC, your gigaretarded indrudertinian. Later the wheels of Tepe Pardis, Iran, from 5200–4700 BC. Also:>An early example of a wooden wheel and its axle was found in 2002 at the Ljubljana Marshes some 20 km south of Ljubljana, the capital of Slovenia. According to radiocarbon dating, it is between 5,100 and 5,350 years old. The wheel was made of ash and oak and had a radius of 70 cm and the axle was 120 cm long and made of oak>wooden wheelThe first wheels were made of clay.
>>18362928>Muh Indian-Euro HotTities won in Kadesh but the Rmt lied in their records and claimed the victoryKek now explain how a bunch of inbred retarded desert rats from Arabia obliterated the Indian-Euro Gayreek Rawmen Byzantium and Persian empires.>Ib4 they wuz tired by 20 years of skirmishesIndian-Eurofags cope
>>18362888>>18362894>>18362928Once the Hittite chariots were driven from the Egyptian camp the Egyptian chariots took pursuit, being 2 man chariots with fresh horses they caught up easily and inflicted casualties on the most skilled and well equipped charioteers of the Hittites, now withdrawing in disarray.The Egyptians had lost scores of infantry, but their chariots were largely intact whereas the Hittites had lost a significant chunk. Regardless Hittite King Muwatalli II pressed on, their best hope of victory being to take the Egyptian camp before the rest of their army arrived, however it was too late, the subsequent Hittite chariot attacks failed and they were pushed back to Kadesh.We can conclude from this that bronze age infantry were vulnerable to chariots on open terrain, to the point chariot charges were the main method of offense, as opposed to classical era infantry closing on each other in the middle and cavalry battling on the flanks.
>>18362948Does he know how to count? Or is 4000 at most somehow older than 5000?
>>18362948I don't know why this disdain for the EEF they surpassed the Mesopotamians by almost a millennium.
>>18362986All that's left is to cry, dilate and cope and of course, use outdated 2007 sources and deny radiocarbon dating because the anti-European narrative has failed miserably>>18362987No, these are retarded 18-year-old girls. Mature people know that the EEF were as important as the Aryans; they literally created one of the most important things in the world: the wheel.
>>18362251>>18362306>>18362322>HOW CAN THE SUMERIANS LEARN ABOUT SOLID WHEELS FROM PIE/IE TO BUILT WAGONS AND CONTINUE WITHOUT HORSES UNTIL THE TIME OF THE GUTIANS/KASSITES?>1918 census of Mongolian animals found 1,500,000 horses.[8] The origins of the Mongolian breed are hard to determine. Nomads of the central Asian steppes have been documented as riding horses since 2000 BC. Tests have shown, that among all horse breeds, Mongol horses feature the largest genetic variety, followed by the Tuvan horses. This indicates that it is a very archaic breed suffering little human-induced selection. The data also indicate that many other breeds descend from the Mongol horses.Delusional Indian-Eurofags claim anything even the horse when Mongolians still ride the ancestor of the horse. Their wewuzzery is neverending.
>>18362987Lucky for his circlejerk that Sumerian genetics haven't been revealed yet, if they were revealed as descendants of CHG (the Maykop in Caucasus, the first PIE to invent wagons, were the PIE with the most CHG ancestry). If that's true, their overestimation of Old Europe will be shattered by the fact that it was dominated by half-proto-Sumerian men.>During the Chalcolithic and early Bronze Age, the EEF-derived cultures of Europe were overwhelmed by successive invasions of Western Steppe Herders (WSHs) from the Pontic–Caspian steppe, who carried about 60% Eastern Hunter-Gatherer (EHG) and 40% Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer (CHG) admixture. These invasions led to EEF paternal DNA lineages in Europe being almost entirely replaced with EHG/WSH paternal DNA (mainly R1b and R1a). EEF maternal DNA (mainly haplogroup N) also declined, being supplanted by steppe lineages, suggesting the migrations involved both males and females from the steppe. EEF mtDNA, however, remained frequent, suggesting admixture between WSH males and EEF females>Crabtree, Pam J.; Bogucki, Peter (25 January 2017). European Archaeology as Anthropology: Essays in Memory of Bernard Wailes. University of Pennsylvania Press. p. 55. ISBN 978-1-934536-90-2.p.55: "In addition, uniparental markers changed suddenly as mtDNA N1a and Y haplogroup G2a, which had been very common in the EEF agricultural population, were replaced by Y haplogroups R1a and R1b and by a variety of mtDNA haplogroups typical of the Steppe Yamnaya population. The uniparental markers show that the migrants included both men and women from the steppes.">"Human mitochondrial DNA lineages in Iron-Age Fennoscandia suggest incipient admixture and eastern introduction of farming-related maternal ancestry". Scientific Reports. "The subsequent spread of Yamnaya-related people and Corded Ware Culture in the late Neolithic and Bronze Age were accompanied with the increase of haplos I, U2 and T1 in Europe (See8 and references therein)."
pic related may not be entirely accurate, but bronze age infantry seemed to be lightly armed in general, perhaps due to the limits of bronze weapons. This allowed horses with fabric armor to resist most projectiles before they closed and the trained warhorses along with the crew to contend with the infantry.
>>18363010>The Maykop people lived sedentary lives, and horses formed a very low percentage of their livestock, which mostly consisted of pigs and cattle.>Archaeologists have discovered a unique form of bronze cheek-piece, which consists of a bronze rod with a twisted loop in the middle that threads through the nodes and connects to the bridle, halter strap, and headband. Notches and bumps on the edges of the cheek-pieces were, apparently, to attach nose and under-lip straps>Some of the earliest wagon wheels in the world are found in Maykop culture area. The two solid wooden wheels from the kurgan of Novokorsunskaya in the Kuban region have been dated to the second half of the fourth millennium>Based on Wang (2018), David W. Anthony (2019) notes that "the Maikop population was descended from the Chalcolithic farmers [that] came from the south, probably from western Georgia [the Darkveti-Meshoko culture], and are the ideal archaeological candidate for the founders of the Northwest Caucasian language family." He also notes that the Bronze Age Maykop individuals tested by Wang (2018) could not have contributed to the Yamnaya gene pool, Yamnaya being the archeological culture most likely connected to the spread of Indo-European languages. Wang (2018) further found that 'Steppe Maykop' (a population related to the Maykop culture) probably had a minor East Asian-related component, which was estimated at ~6.9% of their ancestry, relating them to Ancient North Eurasians (Upper Palaeolithic Siberians AG3, MA1) and Native Americans>Its burial practices resemble the burial practices described in the Kurgan hypothesis of Marija Gimbutas, and it has been speculated that the Maykop culture may have contributed to the Yamnaya culture which is nowadays recognised as the ancestor of most Indo-European languages.
>>18363017They were the first PIE to be great metallurgists as well.>The Maikop Culture in the northern Caucasus was concurrent with the Kura-Araxes Culture in the south of the Caucasus and the Uruk period in Mesopotamia. The finds in the Maikop kurgan (tumulus) and other kurgans of the Maikop Culture are still regarded as unique to this day. More than 7000 objects of gold and some 1000 of silver are known. Nowhere else in the Early Bronze Age world of the second half of the 4th millennium BC has such a large number of exquisite gold and silver items come to light>Golden ox figurine found in the Maykop kurgan (mid-4th millennium BC), Hermitage Museum>Ancient DNA analysis has provided insights into the genetic composition of individuals associated with the Kura-Araxes culture. The Y-chromosome haplogroups identified in Kura–Araxes individuals include G2b, J-CTS1460 (x2), J-Z1842, and R1b1-M415 (xM269), reflecting a mixture of lineages with deep Near Eastern and Caucasian origins. Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) analysis indicates diverse maternal lineages, with haplogroups including H, H1u, K3, N1b1a, R1a1, T2a1b2b, T2h, U1a1a, U3a2, U3b1a1, U3b2, and X2f. These haplogroups suggest genetic connections between Kura–Araxes populations and neighboring regions such as Anatolia, the Near East, and the Caucasus. Genomic studies indicate that Kura–Araxes individuals shared a significant portion of their ancestry with Caucasus hunter-gatherers (CHG) and Anatolian Chalcolithic populations. The data indicate a largely stable genetic profile over time, with limited gene flow from Steppe populations, distinguishing them from later Bronze Age groups that incorporated more Yamnaya-related ancestry
>>18363028>Hurro-Urartian is an extinct language family of the Ancient Near East, comprising only two known languages: Hurrian and Urartian>It is often assumed that the Hurro-Urartian languages, or a pre-split Proto-Hurro-Urartian language, were originally spoken by people of the Kura-Araxes culture which existed in Eastern Anatolia, the Caucasus, northwestern Iran, Upper Mesopotamia and northern Levant from the late 5th millennium BC to late 3rd millennium BC>While the genetic relation between Hurrian and Urartian is undisputed, the wider connections of Hurro-Urartian to other language families are controversial. After the decipherment of Hurrian and Urartian inscriptions and documents in the 19th and early 20th century, Hurrian and Urartian were soon recognized as not related to the Semitic or later arriving Indo-European languages, Kartvelian languages, nor to language isolates of the region such as Sumerian language, Elamite language, Gutian language and Hattian language. At present, the consensus view of linguists is the most conservative view: Hurro-Urartian is a primary language family not demonstrably related to any other language family>There are some lexical matches between Hurro-Urartian and Sumerian, which was a language isolate, indicating an early contact>The Hurrians had a reputation in metallurgy. It is proposed that the Sumerian term for "coppersmith" tabira/tibira was borrowed from Hurrian, which would imply an early presence of the Hurrians way before their first historical mention in Akkadian sources. Copper was traded south to Mesopotamia from the highlands of Anatolia
>>18363038>The Horites (Hebrew: חֹרִים Ḥōrīm), were a people mentioned in the Torah (Genesis 14:6, 36:20, Deuteronomy 2:12) inhabiting areas around Mount Seir in Canaan (Genesis 36:2,5)>According to Archibald Sayce (1915), the Horites have been identified with references in Egyptian inscriptions to Khar (formerly translated as Harri), which concern a southern region of Canaan. More recent scholarship has associated them with the Hurrians>The Horites are mentioned alongside other tribes such as the Rephaim that were considered to be giants, although it isn't clear if the text intends for them to be understood as having such large stature>Discovering the important role the Hurrians/Horites played in ancient history has convinced researchers to abandon the inaccurate etymology “cave dweller” assumption. Archaeological evidence now indicates that the Hurrians/Horites were a very advanced people who were both international merchants and expert metalworkers, especially proficient in smelting copper and bronze, which probably explains why some appear in the Bible around ancient Edom where copper ore was abundant>There is a certain bottomless pit in the ancient Hurrian City of Urkesh, modern Syria, which was found to be filled with offerings of puppies and piglets, they never got to the bottom of it but it was very deep>The texts relating these rituals are found in the Hittite archives dating some 1000 years after our structure, but there is no doubt that they refer to the same religious tradition. It is from these texts that we know the ancient name was âbi/āpi (deep/abyss), a type of underground structure used in necromantic rituals for communication with the underworld
>>18363054>In certain Hittite-Hurrian ritual texts (such as CTH 446), the āpi was deified, that is, the grave itself was invoked as a primeval deity to facilitate communication between the living and the dead. He was one of the 12 Elder Gods of Earth (karuileš šiuneš) banished to the underworld along with Alalu, Anu, Kumarbi, Ea, Aduntarri, Zulki, Irpitia, Narā, Namšarā, Minki and Amunki>It is generally accepted that the Greek succession myth was imported from the Near East, and that along with this imported myth came stories of a group of former ruling gods, who had been defeated and displaced, and who became identified, by the Greeks, as the Titans. Features of Hesiod's account of the Titans can be seen in the stories of the Hurrians, the Hittites, the Babylonians, and other Near Eastern cultures>The Hurro-Hittite text Song of Kumarbi (also called Kingship in Heaven), written five hundred years before Hesiod, tells of a succession of kings in heaven: Anu (Sky), Kumarbi, and the storm-god Teshub, with many striking parallels to Hesiod's account of the Greek succession myth. Like Cronus, Kumarbi castrates the sky-god Anu, and takes over his kingship. And like Cronus, Kumarbi swallows gods (and a stone?), one of whom is the storm-god Teshub, who like the storm-god Zeus, is apparently victorious against Kumarbi and others in a war of the gods>Other Hittite texts contain allusions to "former gods" (karuilies siunes), precisely what Hesiod called the Titans, theoi proteroi. Like the Titans, these Hittite karuilies siunes, were twelve (usually) in number and end up confined in the underworld by the storm-god Teshub, imprisoned by gates they cannot open
>>18362836>created the first planned cities (Uruk, Ur, Lagash)nope, that's the indus valley civ.
>>18363010>Lucky for his circlejerk that Sumerian genetics haven't been revealed yet,Sumerian genetics kek. There's no such thing just like there's no Sumerology. >Ib4 Yes there's they even influenced the Rmt and their civilisationIndian-Euro and Semite fags copehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt%E2%80%93Mesopotamia_relations
>>18363061>In Hurrian, the Hittite's karuilies siunes were known as the "gods of down under" (enna durenna) and the Hittites identified these gods with the Anunnaki, the Babylonian gods of the underworld, whose defeat and imprisonment by the storm-god Marduk, in the Babylonian poem Enûma Eliš (late second millennium BC or earlier), parallels the defeat and imprisonment of the Titans>Shutu, also known as Sutu or Suteans (Akkadian šūtu or sūtu), were a West Semitic semi-nomadic pastoral people of southern origin documented in ancient Akkadian, Babylonian, and Egyptian sources from the third to the first millennium BCE. They inhabited the steppes and deserts of the Near East, including the Syrian desert around Jebel Bišri (called Šaršar in cuneiform texts), Transjordan, Edom, Seir, and areas west of the Euphrates extending into Mesopotamia and Babylonia. Etymologically linked to the Akkadian term for "south" or "south wind," their name reflects their association with southern regions and possibly windy desert environments>The Egyptians referred to the land of Edom as the Kushu. In the story of Sinuhe, dated 1900 BC, there is a reference to one of the "chiefs of the Kushu" whose name is Ya'ush, which some researchers identify with the Biblical Jeush, a son of Esau and chief of Edom (Gen 36:15-18). In this case, Kushu/Kushan may be set south of Shutu (in later Moab), in what became Edom, between eventual Moab and Midian>They were famous in Semitic epic poetry for being fierce nomadic warriors, and like the ʿApiru, also known in the Akkadian version Ḫabiru (sometimes written Habiru, Ḫapiru or Hapiru; Akkadian: 𒄩𒁉𒊒, ḫa-bi-ru or *ʿaperu), and Shasu, traditionally worked as mercenaries
>>18363089>Amarna Letter EA195 mentions the Suteans and is entitled "Waiting for the Pharaoh's words", from Biryawaza of Dimasqu-(Damascus) to pharaoh: "I am indeed, together with my troops and chariots, together with my brothers, my ʿApiru and my Suteans, at the disposition of the archers, wheresoever the king, my lord, shall order (me to go).">Two Egyptian texts, one dated to the period of Amenhotep III (14th century BCE), the other to the age of Ramesses II (13th century BCE), refer to tꜣ šꜣśw yhwꜣ, i.e. "The Land of the Shasu yhwꜣ", in which yhwꜣ (also rendered as yhw) or Yahu, is a toponym>Regarding the name yhwꜣ, Michael Astour observed that the "hieroglyphic rendering corresponds very precisely to the Hebrew Tetragrammaton YHWH, or Yahweh, and antedates the hitherto oldest occurrence of that divine name – on the Mesha Stele im Moab – by over five hundred years." K. Van Der Toorn concludes: "By the 14th century BC, before the cult of Yahweh had reached Israel, groups of Edomites and Midianites worshipped Yahweh as their god.">The Shutu's historical significance lies in their interactions with emerging states and their potential contributions to regional ethnogenesis; for instance, some scholars link Shasu groups in Transjordan to early Iron Age settlers in the southern Levant, possibly influencing biblical traditions associating Shasu of YHWH with southern locales like Teman and Mount Seir. In later Mesopotamian literature, such as the Epic of Erra and anti-witchcraft incantations like Maqlû, they were demonized as irrational, animal-like figures or malevolent witches, symbolizing chaos from the margins of civilization. Their divine patrons, the goddess Lamashtu and god Šaršar (equated with the cattle deity Sumuqan according to the god list Anu ša amēli), underscores their pastoral identity, while biblical echoes in figures like Seth and his "sons" may reflect polemic reinterpretations of Sutean motifs in Jewish lore
>>18363097>As shown by H. Niehr, Anatolian burial traditions can explain an enigmatic passage from the Ugaritian Epic of Kirta (KTU 1.16 i 2-3):>k klb b btk nc tq>Like a dog in your tomb shall we howl?>k ỉnr ảp ḫštk>Like a puppy in the pit of your vault?>Here, Ug. ảp is a loan from Hurrian āpi, “burial pit” and Ug. ḫšt corresponds to the Hittite ḫišta-house, “mausoleum”. Dictionaries usually give two or three possible meanings of the Hebre word אוב (ôḇ) II: “spirits of the dead; pit”; “instrument (used) when addressing the dead (bullroarer, turndun)”; “spirit – a word used in the context of seeking an oracle, medium, necromancer – some- one who consults ghosts”; “a means of conjuring/invoking (spirits),” “a sacrificial pit” (Sumerian: ab; Hittite: a-a-bi [ajubi]; Acadian: apu; Ugaritic:’ēb [also transcribed as ’ajb or åb] – “hole in the ground”); “wineskin, medium, spiritist, necromancer, wizard, spirit of the dead, ghost.”>As H. Niehr reports, there is archaeological evidence for the Hurrian custom of burying puppies alive.59 He also notes: “In Hittite religion, dogs and puppies, pigs and piglets, had chthonic overtones” which is why such animals were used as substitute offerings to underworld gods and sacrificed in these pits.>While the structure of Hurrian āpi (deep/abyss), in its simplest form, is a deep circular shaft going back to the early third, and possibly the fourth millennium, it was at about 2300 B.C. that it came to be covered by a corbelled vault and expanded by means of an antechamber>At this point the excavated depth of the circle is almost 6 meters, but the base of the stones has not yet been reached>These were likely to have been offerings to a Goddess such as Lamashtu in exchange for the lives of new born children, Lamashtu had been thrown out of Heaven by Anu for eating babies for breakfast and being generally insane, the personification of evil
>>18363130>The ābi>A most remarkable structure is a large and deep stone pit where the spirits of the Netherworld were summoned by a medium, capable to interpret their chirp-like voices. Awesome because of the intense religious meaning it carried, the structure still has a profound impact on the visitor because of its monumentality, perfectly well preserved>Discovering the important role the Hurrians/Horites played in ancient history has convinced researchers to abandon the inaccurate etymology “cave dweller” assumption. Archaeological evidence now indicates that the Hurrians/Horites were a very advanced people who were both international merchants and expert metalworkers, especially proficient in smelting copper and bronze, which probably explains why some appear in the Bible around ancient Edom where copper ore was abundant>In Greek mythology, Prometheus, the Titan who stole fire from the gods to give to humanity, was indeed punished by Zeus by being chained to a rock in the Caucasus Mountains>The Khabur Valley had a central position in the metal trade, and copper, silver and even tin were accessible from the Hurrian-dominated countries Kizzuwatna and Ishuwa situated in the Anatolian highland. Gold was in short supply, and the Amarna letters inform us that it was acquired from Egypt. Not many examples of Hurrian metal work have survived, except from the later Urartu. Some small fine bronze lion foundation pegs were discovered at Urkesh>In the earliest phase of the Kura–Araxes culture, metal was scarce. In comparison, the preceding Leilatepe culture's metalwork tradition was far more sophisticated. Especially after 3000 BC, a significant increase in the use of metal objects occurred at Kura–Araxes sites. Also the variation in copper alloys increased during this time. The rich tomb of a woman at Kvazchela is a good example of this, which is quite similar to the 'royal tomb' from Arslantepe
>>18363136>The use of an arsenical component up to 25% in copper objects resulted in a shiny greyish, silvery colour. So it's quite possible that these unusually high arsenical alloys were intended to imitate silver>The Kura–Araxes culture would later display "a precocious metallurgical development, which strongly influenced surrounding regions". They worked copper, arsenic, silver, gold, tin, and bronze>Their metal goods were widely distributed, from the Volga, Dnieper and Don-Donets river systems in the north to Syria and Palestine in the south and Anatolia in the west>The population of the Hittite Empire in Anatolia included a large population of Hurrians, and there is significant Hurrian influence in Hittite mythology>Scholars once attributed the development of iron-smelting to the Hittites, who were believed to have monopolized ironworking during the Bronze Age. This theory has been increasingly contested in the 21st century, with the Late Bronze Age collapse, and subsequent Iron Age, seeing the slow, comparatively continuous spread of ironworking technology across the region. While there are some iron objects from Bronze Age Anatolia, the number is comparable to that of iron objects found in Egypt, Mesopotamia and in other places from the same period; and only a small number of these objects are weapons. X-ray fluorescence spectrometry suggests that most or all irons from the Bronze Age are derived from meteorites. The Hittite military also made successful use of chariots>The Maryannu were a caste of chariot-mounted hereditary warrior nobility that existed in many of the societies of the Ancient Near East during the Bronze Age, in particular between 1700 and 1200 BC. Maryannu is a Hurrianized Indo-Aryan word, formed by adding the Hurrian suffix -nni to the Indo-Aryan root márya, meaning "(young) man" or a "young warrior". Philologist Martin West suggested that the name Meriones, a character in Homeric epic, is "identical" to maryannu
>>18363143>Thus, Mērionēs would be the Homeric Greek version of the term, reflected in pre-Mycenaean poetic verse as Mārionās>The term is attested in the Amarna letters written by Haapi. The majority of the Maryannu had Semitic and Hurrian names>The Hyksos are credited with introducing several technological innovations to Egypt, such as the horse and chariot, as well as the khopesh (sickle sword) and the composite bow, a theory which is disputed>Umman Manda (Akkadian: 𒂟𒌋𒌋𒁕, romanized: Ummān Manda lit.'the horde from who knows where') is a term used in the early second and first millennia BC for a poorly known people in the Ancient Near East. They have been identified in different contexts as Hurrians, Elamites, Medes, Cimmerians, and Scythians. The homeland of Umman Manda seems to be somewhere from Central Anatolia to north or northeastern Babylonia (Greater Kurdistan), possibly in what later came to be known as Mitanni, Mannae, or Media>Zaluti, whose name seems to have an Indo-Iranian etymology, is mentioned as a leader of Ummanda Manda. He is even suggested to be identified with Salitis the founder of the Hyksos, the Fifteenth dynasty of Egypt>In the Manethonian tradition, Salitis (Greek Σάλιτις, also Salatis or Saites) was the first Hyksos king, the one who subdued and ruled Lower Egypt and founded the 15th Dynasty>Josephus, and most of the writers of antiquity, associated the Hyksos with the Jews. Quoting from Manetho's Aegyptiaca, Josephus states that when the Hyksos were expelled from Egypt, they founded Jerusalem (Contra Apion I.90)
Can someone explain why this lunatic had a mental breakdown after being refuted? Why did it turn into a genetic off topic thread? What exactly leads a person to do that?
>>18363149>Seuserenre Khyan was a Hyksos king of the Fifteenth Dynasty of Egypt, ruling over Lower Egypt in the second half of the 17th century BCE>The name Khyan has been "interpreted as Amorite Hayanu (reading h-ya-a-n) which the Egyptian form represents perfectly, and this is in all likelihood the correct interpretation." The name Hayanu is recorded in the Assyrian king lists—see "Khorsabad List I, 17 and the SDAS List, I, 16"--"for a remote ancestor of Shamshi-Adad I (c.1800 BC)>The collapse of the Akkadian Empire in 2154 BC saw the arrival of peoples using Khirbet Kerak ware (pottery), coming originally from the Zagros Mountains (in modern Iran) east of the Tigris. In addition, DNA analysis revealed that between 2500 and 1000 BC, populations from the Chalcolithic Zagros and Bronze Age Caucasus migrated to the Southern Levant>Agranat-Tamir et al. (2020) stated that Canaanites from the Intermediate Bronze Age (c. 2500–2000 BC) to late Iron Age I (c. 1000 BC) were genetically similar to each other. They lived in modern Israel, Jordan and Lebanon and could be modeled as "a mixture of local earlier Neolithic populations and populations from the northeastern part of the Near East (i.e. Zagros Mountains, Caucasians/Armenians and possibly, Hurrians)">The Habiru seem to have been more a social class than an ethnic group. One analysis shows that the majority in Syria were Hurrian, although there were a number of Semites and even some Kassite and Luwian adventurers amongst their number>Although Habiru SA-GAZ (a Sumerian ideogram glossed as "brigand" in Akkadian), and sometimes Habiri (an Akkadian word) had been reported in Mesopotamia from the reign of the Sumerian king, Shulgi of Ur III, their appearance in Canaan appears to have been due to the arrival of a new state based in Asia Minor to the north of Assyria and based upon a Maryannu aristocracy of horse-drawn charioteers, associated with the Indo-Aryan rulers of the Hurrians, known as Mitanni
>>18362096>are you sure BBC is this way?
>>18363176>Seuserenre Khyan was a Hyksos king of the Fifteenth Dynasty of Egypt, ruling over Lower Egypt in the second half of the 17th century BCE>The name Khyan has been "interpreted as Amorite Hayanu (reading h-ya-a-n) which the Egyptian form represents perfectly, and this is in all likelihood the correct interpretation." The name Hayanu is recorded in the Assyrian king lists—see "Khorsabad List I, 17 and the SDAS List, I, 16"--"for a remote ancestor of Shamshi-Adad I (c.1800 BC)>The collapse of the Akkadian Empire in 2154 BC saw the arrival of peoples using Khirbet Kerak ware (pottery), coming originally from the Zagros Mountains (in modern Iran) east of the Tigris. In addition, DNA analysis revealed that between 2500 and 1000 BC, populations from the Chalcolithic Zagros and Bronze Age Caucasus migrated to the Southern Levant>Agranat-Tamir et al. (2020) stated that Canaanites from the Intermediate Bronze Age (c. 2500–2000 BC) to late Iron Age I (c. 1000 BC) were genetically similar to each other. They lived in modern Israel, Jordan and Lebanon and could be modeled as "a mixture of local earlier Neolithic populations and populations from the northeastern part of the Near East (i.e. Zagros Mountains, Caucasians/Armenians and possibly, Hurrians)">The Habiru seem to have been more a social class than an ethnic group. One analysis shows that the majority in Syria were Hurrian, although there were a number of Semites and even some Kassite and Luwian adventurers amongst their number
Despite the misinformation and irrational absurdities surrounding the subject, it is necessary to clarify some points. Genetic selection for horse breeding began around 4000 BC, but horsemanship itself may have started around 2000 BC with Sintashta, whose ancestor we don't know is the Dom2 lineage. It took a long time for breeding (especially after the development of horses for chariots around 2200 BC) and riding techniques to developBut perhaps we are missing something, as in the case of chariots, we have some evidence of skeletal pathologies that suggest primitive horsemanship, which is contested and may be attributed to the use of carts. So perhaps the idea was already being developed in Yamnaya and possibly before, judging by the Enellitic cultures and Sha material culture. There was probably some limited practice of horsemanship by some courageous individuals of the Yamnaya tribe.Sources: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.ado9774?utm_campaign=SciAdv&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=ownedSocialAll modern horse other than the Mongolian wild horse descend from the steppe horse domesticated first by the Yamnaya-type Western Steppe herders and perfected by the Sintashta.
>>18363198And there's something interesting I'd like to comment on. As I said, the cultural and perhaps ritualistic relevance can be seen in the European steppes even before the formation of the aryans/PIE, Some examples of late Neolithic maces from southeast and eastern Europe with equine heads are found in archaeological sites, so the horse has always been present in the imagination of the PIE and their ancestorsThe primary Proto-Indo-European (PIE) word for horse ish1éḱwos(or *ekwo-), which translates to "the swift one", But there's a magnificent book that I haven't finished reading yet that basically proposes that the prohibition of horseback riding among members of the priesthood in Indo-European groups may be a legacy of prior knowledge of horsemanship and indicates that the horse was considered an "untamed and spirited animal." This, along with ritual practices involving horses, may mean that the Indo-Europeans were among the first to domesticate horses on the Eurasian steppe and refutes earlier etymologies which link horses with dogs or derive the noun from 'swift' and concludes that the horse was the 'unruly, spirited animal'.https://academic.oup.com/book/61806?login=false
>>18363214>>18363198Before I leave, because I feel that the discourse, although erroneous and bitter, has been taken over by a certain "individual' with excessive power, there is no doubt about the ancestor of the oldest domesticated horses. *2025 study*, the most recent confirms what we already knew... Open quote >Expansion across Eurasia ~2200 BCE, initiating the era of large-scale horse-based mobility in human history, ultimately resulting in the near-total replacement of local horse lineages4,5. As a result, all modern domestic horses living on the planet belong to the DOM2 lineageSee the horse genetic affinities. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-025-62266-z
Yeah, chariots were badass, and I totally believe they were used to great effect on the battlefieldWhat are you gonna do about it faggot?
>>18363225>>18363198Eurogods won againWe domesticated horses which everyone uses today, the first civilization are found in Chadrope much older than mud huts, and the first wheel Holy crap, we're awesome and that pisses everyone else off. Mass prostration for us, your masters, your envious ones
>>18363232Ops And we also invented the chariot and conquered all of Eurasia from Ireland to India, and a few millennia later we conquered the world and mapped the universe. Hail, eurogods
>>18363173You're the one who got refuted, ostrich in the hole. The first wheels were made of clay, not wood. That's why the Ljubljana Marshes Wheel is called the World's Oldest Wooden Wheel, not just the Oldest Wheel. Before the wheel, pottery was made by hand (using a coil/snake technique), which was slow. The creation of pottery on the wheel (potter's wheel) in Mesopotamia, just like the even same Agriculture that made the EEF civilizations like Vinca/Cucuteni-Trypilli so great, known as throwing, involves centering the clay, opening the cylinder, and shaping the piece as it rotates. This allowed potters to rotate the clay quickly, shaping vases, pots, and bricks with greater speed, perfection, and symmetry. Initially, these were simple rotating platforms, called "slow wheels" or potter's wheels, which facilitated shaping.>The earliest history of pottery production in the Fertile Crescent starts the Pottery Neolithic and can be divided into four periods, namely: the Hassuna period (7000–6500 BC), the Halaf period (6500–5500 BC), the Ubaid period (5500–4000 BC), and the Uruk period (4000–3100 BC). By about 5000 BC pottery-making was becoming widespread across the region, and spreading out from it to neighbouring areas>Pottery making began in the 7th millennium BC. The earliest forms, which were found at the Hassuna site, were hand formed from slabs, undecorated, unglazed low-fired pots made from reddish-brown clays. Within the next millennium, wares were decorated with elaborate painted designs and natural forms, incising and burnished>The invention of the potter's wheel in Mesopotamia sometime between 6,000 and 4,000 BC (Ubaid period) revolutionised pottery production. Newer kiln designs could fire wares to 1,050 °C (1,920 °F) to 1,200 °C (2,190 °F) which enabled increased possibilities. Production was now carried out by small groups of potters for small cities, rather than individuals making wares for a family
>>18363318>In the Chalcolithic period in Mesopotamia, Halafian pottery achieved a level of technical competence and sophistication, not seen until the later developments of Greek pottery with Corinthian and Attic ware>In the Archaic phase of ancient Greek art, the Orientalizing period is the cultural and art historical period that began during the later part of the 8th century BC, when there was a heavy influence from the more advanced art of the Ancient Near East. The main sources were Akkadia, Aramea, as well as Phoenicia and Egypt. With the spread of Phoenician civilization by Carthage and Greek colonisation into the Western Mediterranean, these artistic trends also influenced the Etruscans and early Ancient Romans in the Italian peninsula>Despite the popularity of Ancient Greek culture in the west, Ancient Greek culture is generally seen as having little importance for Indo-European studies due to the heavy influence of Pre-Greek and Near Eastern cultures, which overwhelms what little Indo-European material can be extracted from it>Greek religious concepts also have absorbed many of the beliefs and practices of earlier, nearby cultures, many influences came from the Near East, especially via Cyprus. Herodotus, writing in the 5th century BC, traced many Greek religious practices to Egypt and Phoenicia
>>18363328>During this period there arose in ancient Greek art ornamental motifs and an interest in animals and monsters that continued to be depicted for centuries, and that also spread to Roman and Etruscan art. Monumental and figurative sculpture in this style may be called Daedalic, after Daedalus, who was according to legend the founder of Greek sculpture. The period is characterized by a shift from the prevailing Geometric style to a style with Eastern-inspired motifs. This new style reflected a period of increased cultural interchange in the Aegean world, the intensity of which is sometimes compared to that of the Late Bronze Age>The emergence of Orientalizing motifs in Greek pottery is clearly evident at the end of the Late Geometric Period, although two schools of thought exist regarding the question of whether or not Geometric art itself was indebted to eastern models. In Attic pottery, the distinctive Orientalizing style known as "proto-Attic" was marked by floral and animal motifs; it was the first time discernibly Greek religious and mythological themes were represented in vase painting>The bodies of men and animals were depicted in silhouette, though their heads were drawn in outline; women were drawn completely in outline. At the other important center of this period, Corinth, the orientalizing influence started earlier, though the tendency there was to produce smaller, highly detailed vases in the "proto-Corinthian" style that prefigured the black-figure technique>From the mid-sixth century, the growth of Achaemenid power in the eastern end of the Aegean and in Asia Minor reduced the quantity of eastern goods found in Greek sites, as the Persians began to conquer Greek cities in Ionia, along the coast of Asia Minor
>>18363352>During this period, the Assyrians advanced along the Mediterranean coast, accompanied by Greek and Carian mercenaries, who were also active in the armies of Psamtik I in Egypt. The new groups started to compete with established Mediterranean merchants. In other parts of the Aegean world similar population moves occurred. Phoenicians settled in Cyprus and in western regions of Greece, while Greeks established trading colonies at Al Mina, Syria, and in Ischia (Pithecusae) off the Tyrrhenian coast of Campania in southern Italy. These interchanges led to a period of intensive borrowing in which the Greeks (especially) adapted cultural features from the East into their art>The period from roughly 750 to 580 BC also saw a comparable Orientalizing phase of Etruscan art, as a rising economy encouraged Etruscan families to acquire foreign luxury products incorporating Eastern-derived motifs. Similarly, areas of Italy—such as Magna Grecia, Sicily, the Picenum, Latium vetus, Ager Faliscus, the Venetic region, and the Nuragic civilization in Sardinia —also experienced an Orientalizing phase at this time. There is also an Orientalizing period in the Iberian peninsula, in particular in the city-state of Tartessos>Massive imports of raw materials, including metals, and a new mobility among foreign craftsmen caused new craft skills to be introduced in Greece. Walter Burkert described the new movement in Greek art as a revolution: "With bronze reliefs, textiles, seals, and other products, a whole world of eastern images was opened up which the Greeks were only too eager to adopt and adapt in the course of an 'orientalizing revolution'">Among surviving artefacts, the main effects are seen in painted pottery and metalwork, as well as engraved gems. Monumental and figurative sculpture was less affected, and there the new style is often called Daedalic
>>18362380>caravel had been created by the Portuguese, this superior vessel to the older style galleys let Europeans sail to every corner of the world,Santa Maria was carrack not caravel.Sao Gabriel, Sao Rafael, Trinidad, TheVictoria were all carracks too.I don't know why pop historians advertise caravel so much when it's Carrack that was breakthrough naval tech.
>>18363356>A new type of face is seen, especially on Crete, with "heavy, overlarge features in a U- or V-shaped face with horizontal brow"; these derive from the Near East. The greatest number of examples are from pottery found at sites. There were three types of new motifs: animal, vegetable, and abstract. Much of the vegetable repertoire tended to be highly stylised. Vegetable motifs such as the palmette, lotus and tendril volute were characteristic of Greek decoration, and through the Greek culture these were transmitted to most of Eurasia. Exotic animals and monsters, in particular the lion (no longer native to Greece by this period) and sphinxes were added to the griffin, as found at Knossos>In bronze and terracotta figurines, the introduction from the east of the mould led to a great increase in production of figures mainly made as votive offerings>Cultural predominance of the East, identified archaeologically by pottery, ivory and metalwork of eastern origin found in Hellenic sites, soon gave way to thorough Hellenization of imported features in the Archaic Period that followed>Many Greek myths originated in attempts to interpret and integrate foreign icons in terms of Greek cult and practice. Some Greek myths reflect Mesopotamian literary classics. Walter Burkert has argued that it was migrating seers and healers who transmitted their skills in divination and purification ritual along with elements of their mythological wisdom. M. L. West also has documented massive overlaps in early Greek mythological themes and Near Eastern literature, and the influences extend to considerable lexical flows from Semitic languages into early Greek. This overlap also covers a notable range of topical and thematic parallels between Greek epic and the Tanakh>>18363361The carrack is the spoked wheel of the marine navigation.
>>18363085>The earliest attestations of ships in maritime transport in Mesopotamia are model ships, which date back to the 4th millennium BC. In archaic texts in Uruk, Sumer, the ideogram for "ship" is attested, but in the inscriptions of the kings of Lagash, ships were first mentioned in connection to maritime trade and naval warfare at around 2500–2350 BC.[22]>The earliest historical evidence of boats is found in Egypt during the 4th millennium BC[1] The Greek historian and geographer Agatharchides had documented ship-faring among the early Egyptians: "During the prosperous period of the Old Kingdom, between the 30th and 25th centuries BC, the river-routes were kept in order, and Egyptian ships sailed the Red Sea as far as the myrrh-country."[40]How do Indian-Euro & Semite fags cope with Sumerians traveling in tiny Model boats. Kek
>>18363382>Many Greek myths originated in attempts to interpret and integrate foreign icons in terms of Greek cult and practice. Some Greek myths reflect Mesopotamian literary classics. Walter Burkert has argued that it was migrating seers and healers who transmitted their skills in divination and purification ritual along with elements of their mythological wisdom. M. L. West also has documented massive overlaps in early Greek mythological themes and Near Eastern literature, and the influences extend to considerable lexical flows from Semitic languages into early Greek. This overlap also covers a notable range of topical and thematic parallels between Greek epic and the TanakhGreek Mythology was also about the Hellenes trying to understand how Mycenaean Era was like. Many of the stories about the gods and heroes of Greek Mythology were compiled during Greek Dark Ages and Orientalizing Period. Impoverished tribes passed down oral traditions that originated after the fall of the lost palatial civilizations of the Mycenaean Greeks. Dark Age Greeks tried to make sense of the massive ruins of their forgotten forbearers' monumental palaces that were still standing around. As illiterates, they were curious about occasional clay tablets they plowed up in their fields with incomprehensible ancient Linear B inscriptions. We of the 21st century are beginning to look back at our own lost epic times and wonder about these now-nameless giants cyclops who left behind monuments that we cannot replicate, but instead merely use or even mock.
>>18363393Wtf are the Sumerians if not proto Semites?
>>18362888Proof chariots charged infantry>Ancient depictions, varied culture, varied timesProof chariots did not>"It doesn't make sense to me"I agree, mind you. It's just that if I had the fuck-you-money I'd go to some Eastern European country with less strict liability laws and pay oodles of money to have people make imitations of ancient chariots and test out chariot to chariot warfare. Namely:>1 v 1 with bow>1 v 1 with lance>4 v 4 with lanceThe big problem is we have absolutely zero reference for what chariot warfare would be like in living memory. We do for cavalry, we can even see simulacrums of that literally today with mounted police during riots. But honestly to me I just imagine 2 rednecks in a john dere offroad vehicle and 2 other rednecks in the same. You don't want to smash eachother but you need to try and hit the enemy. What do you do?
>>18363613>'they expect one of us in the wreckage brother'
>>18363613(continuing) in that how do you hit them? You either throw beer cans (arrows, javelins), or you grab that wooden pole from the back of the truck and try and either push the other guy off the john dere or swing it. Honestly as much as I said we have zero reference it's also fucking obvious when you just think about it. It's two guys in cars dogfighting, trying to get behind the other so you can whack em with impunity or daring to try and get parallel to them and trusting your friend riding shotgun you can knock em out.You don't even have to have chariots or john deres. Honestly shit, you could hire fratboys to do a human rickshaw bit and test it out with some kind of nerf pole and nerf balls.
>>18363618>Egyptian hieroglyphic of a guy pointing>Hieroglyphic of a mask>Hieroglyphic of a question mark>Hieroglyphic of a very large human.
>>18362836>created cuneiform writing, the oldest organized complex script knownFix'd. I just saw that they discovered the oldest WHG inscription yesterday, that's as good as the announcement of the new Evangelion anime and >>18362205https://www.labrujulaverde.com/en/2026/02/engraved-signs-on-the-adorant-and-other-stone-age-artifacts-constitute-a-40000-year-old-writing-system-predating-the-mesopotamian-one/>A team of researchers has determined that the sequences of engraved marks on Stone Age objects, dating back as much as 40,000 years, possess a level of complexity and information density statistically comparable to that of the earliest proto-cuneiform writing systems, which emerged in Mesopotamia around 3000 BCE>The discovery, published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), stems from the computational analysis of more than 3,000 signs documented on 260 objects, most of them from caves in the Swabian Jura, in southwestern Germany, although pieces from other European regions were also included>The work was carried out by linguist Christian Bentz, from Saarland University, and archaeologist Ewa Dutkiewicz, from the Museum of Prehistory and Early History in Berlin, as part of a project funded by the European Research Council. What the researchers found is that the signs appearing on these objects—consisting of lines, notches, dots, and crosses repeated systematically—are neither random nor merely decorative, but instead correspond to an intentional notation system>Our research is helping to uncover the unique statistical properties, or statistical signature, of these sign systems, which are an early predecessor of writing, explains Christian Bentz>Among the analyzed objects stands out the so-called Adorant, a small mammoth-ivory plaque discovered in Geißenklösterle Cave, in the Ach Valley, representing an anthropomorphic figure with lion-like features
>>18363761>On the front of the plaque, the human figure can be seen; on the reverse, researchers identified several rows of dots and notches that, according to the study, were applied with clearly notational intent>Another relevant artifact is a mammoth figurine discovered in Vogelherd Cave, in the Lone Valley, which bears engravings consisting of rows of crosses and dots. Even the well-known statuette of the Lion Man, from Hohlenstein-Stadel Cave, also in the Lone Valley, shows notches placed at regular intervals along one of its arms>The dating of these pieces places them between 34,000 and 45,000 years before present, that is, in the Upper Paleolithic, when anatomically modern humans arrived in Europe and coexisted with Neanderthals. The artifacts date back tens of thousands of years before the first writing systems, to the time when Homo sapiens left Africa, settled in Europe, and encountered the Neanderthals, notes Ewa Dutkiewicz>The archaeologist, who also served as curator of the Vogelherd archaeological park, emphasizes that the Swabian Jura is one of the regions in the world where objects bearing this type of sign have been found most frequently, although other areas are equally important. There are many sequences of signs yet to be discovered on artifacts. We have only scratched the surface, she adds>To carry out the analysis, the team digitized the sign sequences and applied computational methods, including statistical models and machine-learning classification algorithms, with the aim of measuring quantifiable properties such as sign repetition frequency and entropy, a measure of information density. The results showed that, although these Paleolithic sign systems do not represent spoken language—unlike full writing systems—their structure displays notable similarities to proto-cuneiform
>>18363766>Our analyses demonstrate that these sign sequences have nothing to do with modern writing systems, which represent spoken languages and are characterized by high information density. By contrast, the signs on archaeological objects are frequently repeated: cross, cross, cross, line, line, line. This type of repetition is not a feature found in spoken language, clarifies Bentz>However, the comparison with proto-cuneiform yielded an unexpected conclusion. Our hypothesis was that early proto-cuneiform writing would be more similar to modern writing systems, especially because of its relative proximity in time. But the more we studied them, the clearer it became that early proto-cuneiform writing is very similar to Paleolithic sign sequences, which are much older, explains the linguist>In terms of complexity, both Paleolithic and proto-cuneiform signs show similar repetition rates and comparable entropy, indicating a similar capacity to encode information. Due to the high rate of repetitions and the high predictability of the next sign, we were able to demonstrate that the entropy is comparable to that of proto-cuneiform, which appeared much later, Bentz details>This implies that, for tens of thousands of years—from the Paleolithic until the appearance of the earliest proto-cuneiform records—the information-encoding system based on signs remained relatively stable. The radical change occurred about 5,000 years ago, with the emergence of a completely new system representing spoken language and therefore displaying different statistical characteristics>The human capacity to encode information in signs and symbols developed over many thousands of years. Writing is only one specific form within a long series of sign systems, reflects Bentz, who also notes that this principle of encoding underlies modern computer systems and large language models, which rely on sequence predictability
>>18363772>The study does not attempt to decipher the specific meaning of the signs, a task the researchers currently consider unattainable. There are many theories, but until now very little empirical work had been carried out on the basic, measurable characteristics of the signs, comments Bentz. Nevertheless, the results help narrow possible interpretations. These findings may help us reduce potential interpretations, states Ewa Dutkiewicz>What can be inferred is that Paleolithic humans, anatomically similar to modern humans and possessing comparable cognitive abilities, used these signs to transmit information, possibly to coordinate social groups or even as an aid to survival. They were highly skilled artisans. It is clear they carried the objects with them. Many fit in the palm of the hand. In that respect, they also resemble proto-cuneiform tablets, concludes the archaeologist
>>18362978Cavalry was evolving rapidly during this period. Attila the Hun in the 5th century marked a sudden rise in the importance of cavalry and certainly by the time of Muhammad new breeds of horses, the stirrup and saddle tree had spread widely.The Persians had a long experience using cavalry and fighting the cavalry of steppe peoples and had repelled the Huns. The Romans in turn had fought the Parthians and Persians for centuries, also the Huns to the west and Germanic and now Slavic tribes that had adopted the new cavalry, as well as encountering the Bulgarians around the same time as Muhammad.So how did the lower population of Arabians defeat the 2 superpowers? They were not fighting on the steppes, they were fighting in the desert, which the Arabians were especially adapted to. Further the dark age cold period saw relatively drier conditions north of the tropics and wetter conditions to the south. Similarly the medieval warm period benefited the later Mongols whose cold steppe suddenly grew lush. The new breeds of horses and change in climate thus enabled the Arabians, for a few centuries, the same advantages steppe peoples like the Huns and Bulgarians and later Magyars enjoyed.The light desert cavalry of the Arabs assisted by pack camels could dart from watering hole to watering hole across the deserts in a way the Romans and even the Persians could not. They poured into the Syrian desert, established supply lines and raided enemy territory leaving enemy forts and towns stranded, which often surrendered granting the Muslims sudden massive territorial gains. Although they were not all-cavalry armies and used large numbers of infantry in pitched battles, their cavalry superiority assisted their maneuvers by securing watering holes and supply lines while raiding those of the enemy.
>>18363382>The carrack is the spoked wheel of the marine navigation.The carrack is the floating castle of maritime navigation.Main mode of naval combat was a boarding and the carrack was a mini castle very difficult to board, especially from low boat and ships like galley, that were main ships of Mediterranean sea pirates.Thus carrack was disruptive technology that allowed relatively small crew to carry big cargo and able to defend from pirates boarding. That was European naval technology breakthrough.
