Someone break down to me the concept of Baal.
>>18378937An angel fell and mated with a woman and behold, the birth of Baal.
Baal is a title meaning "lord", it was applied to different gods including YHWH, you are thinking of Hadad, who has also nothing to do with bulls, bullhead is a medieval invention. the moloch sacrifice thing as well was dedicated to number of different gods, including Yahweh.
>>18378937The goyim are so mind raped that they think that by insulting the enemies of jews they're being antisemitic.
>>18378961But I thought the Hebrews rejected child sacrifice in the Abraham and Isaac story?
>>18379002Don't mind him, he's a God hater, everyday he accumulates 100 new burning coals to be dropped upon his head upon his death.
>>18379002>>18379004You never wondered why only Abraham comes down the mountain?
>>18379002That was iirc written after the Moloch went out of style. But the whole thing is rather confused.Don't listen to the fundie wannabe, by the way, he's just trolling.
>>18379007Ever wondered where Jacob and Esau came from?
>>18379008Among the Hebrews, I mean. Though I guess you could basically say that the Binding of Isaac is literally the mythical expression of the Moloch being abandoned by the Hebrews in favour of animal substitutes. The story being composed shortly after or while they abandoned these sacrifices to symbolize this transition. It's just a hypothesis at the end of the day.
>>18378937Behold the Whore® and betrayer of man, and corrupter of women and creator of feminism. Behold, wicknesss on person.
>>18379014
>>18378961Baal also means Husband in ancient hebrew Based language where lord and husband are the same word
>>18379014Lilith comes from a lewd book making fun of Rabbis that dumbasses took seriously.Not an uncommon way for 'demons' to be incorporated into folklore, ironically.During the early modern witch hysteria in Europe a bunch of compilations ended up including bawdy, blasphemous jokes as 'testimonies'.
>>18379015Samael (/ˈsæməˌɛl/; Hebrew: סַמָּאֵל, Sammāʾēl, "Venom of God") is an archangel in Talmudic and post-Talmudic tradition; a figure who is the accuser or adversary (Satan in the Book of Job), seducer, and destroying angel (in the Book of Exodus).A relief of the Archangel Samael in red robe, shown on the left side of the altar at Saint Bartholomew's Church, in Sydenham, London.Although many of his functions resemble the Christian notion of Satan, to the point of being sometimes identified as a fallen angel, he is not necessarily evil, since his functions are also regarded as resulting in good, such as destroying sinners.He is considered in Midrashic texts to be a member of the heavenly host with often grim and destructive duties. One of Samael's most significant roles in Jewish lore is that of the main angel of death and the head of satans. He appears frequently in the story of the Garden of Eden and engineered the fall of Adam and Eve with a snake in writings during the Second Temple period. However, the serpent is not a form of Samael, but a beast he rode like a camel. In a single account he is also believed to be the father of Cain, as well as the partner of Lilith. In early Talmudic and Midrashic literature, he has not yet been identified with Satan. Only in later Midrashim is he entitled "head of satans."As guardian angel and prince of Rome, he is the archenemy of Israel. By the beginning of Jewish culture in Europe, Samael had been established as a representative of Christianity due to his identification with Rome.In some Gnostic cosmologies, Samael's role as a source of evil became identified with the Demiurge, the creator of the material world. Although probably both accounts originate from the same source, the Gnostic development of Samael differs from the Jewish development of Samael, in which Samael is merely an angel and messenger of God.
>>18379009Abraham didn't take Ishmael to a mountain to be sacrificed so...
>>18379024He laughs
>>18378961>>18379007>>18379008>>18379009>>18379013>>18379024
>>18379021Why are they called Seraphim? Because they burn (saraph) the writing tables of Satan : Every day Satan is sitting, together with SAMMAEL, the Prince of Rome (Christianity) and with DUBBIEL, the Prince of Persia(Islam) and they write the iniquities of Israel on writing tables which they hand over to the Seraphim, in order that they may present them before the Holy One, blessed be He, so that He may destroy Israel from the world. But the Seraphim know from the secrets of the Holy One, blessed be He, that he desires not, that this people Israel should perish. What do the Seraphim? Every day do they receive (accept) them from the hand of Satan and bum them in the burning fire over against the high and exalted Throne in order that they may not come before the Holy One, blessed be He, at the time when he is sitting upon the Throne of Judgement, judging the whole world in truth.
>>18379047Dobiel, also Dubbiel (Hebrew: דּוּבִּיאֵל Dūbbīʾēl, "God is my bear"),[1][2][3] was the guardian angel of Ancient Persia.[4][5] According to the Talmud, Dobiel was also one of the special accusers of Israel, and once officiated in Heaven for 21 days as a proxy for Gabriel when the latter was in temporary disgrace for taking pity on the Israelites when God was angry with them and convincing the Babylonians to drive them from Babylon rather than kill them.[6][7] After coming to power in Heaven, Dobiel set about helping the Persian people at the expense of every other nation. The legend states that all of the 70 or 72 tutelary or guardian angels of nations (except Michael, protector of Israel) became corrupted through national bias.
>>18379024>>18379026The Jews descending from Abraham's extramarital affair because Sarah was infertile and he didn't want to sacrifice his firstborn as required makes a lot of sense when you think about it.
>>18379078>Something I made up I my head makes a lot of sense in my head. Oh really?
>>18379085
>>18379085>made up I my headI didn't though, Ezekiel 20:25-26 says the firstborn must be sacrificed but that was Ishmael not Isaac.
>>18379087Yeah many bible verses show they definitely performed child sacrifice (like every neighbouring country then) but when the practice fell out of fashion they had to rewrite Abraham's story.
>>18379087The son of a maid doesn't count.
>>18379091Ezekiel 20:25-26 was probably edited too. If you read Jeremiah 19:5 it's very weird how YHWH says he never commanded or even thought about commanding them to burn children. It reeks of retcon.>>18379092God calls Ishmael his offspring in Genesis 21:13 though.
>>18379103God also calls Isaac Abraham's only son. Because he's the son of Sarah and god wants to honor her, changed her name from Sarai to Sarah and blesses her so she would be a mother of kings through her son Isaac.
>>18379103God also said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call her Sarai; her name will be Sarah. I will bless her and will surely give you a son by her. I will bless her so that she will be the mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her.”
>>18379002Only of other Hebrews
>>18379118>God also calls Isaac Abraham's only sonWhich leads to his sacrifice, but the requirement was always to sacrifice his firstborn. That's the background of the commandment in Exodus 22:29-30 and the original meaning of "redeeming" the firstborn in Exodus 13:13-16.
>>18379127Abraham was not fulfilling any firstborn sacrifice, God simply instructed him to sacrifice what he loved the most out of the blue to prove that Abraham feared him and deserve to be given the whole world as his possession.
>>18379118The Quran is very ambiguous about it as well. It never says which son was asked to be sacrificed, many conclude it must've been Ishmael his first born,some scholars argue whether Issac was born before or after the test, as a blessing to Abraham.
>>18379140According to the version we have now. In Canaanite cultures the sacrifice of a firstborn is well recorded, there's no doubt that's the basis for cases of child sacrifice in the Bible, such as Abraham and Isaac or Jephthah and his daughter, where it's discreetly alluded to. Also Genesis 22:16 makes much more sense if he actually followed through with the sacrifice rather than just mentally intending to do it before YHWH stopped him. “By myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son,"
>>18379157In the book of Jasher there is more context as to why God asked for the sacrifice. It says Ishmael bragged to Isaac about being circumcised first so Isaac responded by swearing to him by the life of God that if God ever asked Abraham to sacrifice him he would not oppose it and go along with it. And Satan heard him, so he went to God and demanded a test like he did with Job.
>>18379170Seems to be line with the kind of explanation you'd expect them to come up with after they had moved away from Canaanite polytheism, in order to reinterpret YHWH as a more palatable deity who didn't demand human sacrifice like the rest of the pantheon did.
If you take a more anthropologic approach to Ba'al, he/they are clearly idols representing different powers. One of the main Ba'al's is a storm god, you have tons of biblical mentions of Asherah (specially the poles) which is a fertility god. Sacrifices were made to "appease" these idols on exchange for good weather, fertility, crops, etc. I'm betting that human sacrifice was only common place when times were really bad (crop failures, disease, etc).In modern day, idolism isn't just worship of an actual object, it appears in many forms of human society, both materials and immaterial.
>>18379181Abraham was not a Canaanite.
>>18379181Canaanites never worshipped YAHU, they did not consider YAHU to be the one true EL, to them Satan was who they called their EL, who is the father of the pagan gods, and his wife Lilith/Asherah, and Ba'al their firstborn son.
>>18379195Abraham did not exist as depicted in Genesis come on. We aren't in the 19th century anymore.
>>18379122
>>18379209
>>18379203Clearly Abraham only existed as depicted in your own imagination.
>>18379211
>>18378937
>>18379195What was he then? North Carolinian?
>>18379199YHWH was a son of El in the Canaanite religion, probably a lesser deity before that.
>>18379199Archeological evidence shows that the events of Exodus and the Israelite conquest of Canaan never happened and instead the Israelites were originally a Canaanite tribe from the Judaean highlands (modern-day West Bank). The earliest known reference to “Israel” is the Egyptian Merneptah stele from the 13th century BC which refers to “Israel” as one of the many Canaanite tribes pharaoh Merneptah conquered and subdued (something curiously omitted in the Old Testament). The Hebrew language itself is a Canaanite language, no different from Phoenician, Edomite, Moabite, and Ammonite. It was even written in the same script as other Canaanite languages as the “Paleo-Hebrew” alphabet is just the Phoenician alphabet, the independent Hebrew alphabet we know didn’t emerge until the 2nd century BC.(Cont)
>>18379233Yahwism, aka proto-Judaism, evolved out of Canaanite paganism and based on textual analysis of the Old Testament, certain elements of Canaanite paganism are still present (Deuteronomy 32:8-9 and Psalm 82). Yahweh was originally a local Canaanite god who belonged to a pantheon of 70+ deities where he wasn’t even the supreme god (that would be El) and he was originally just the local god of Israel and not the god of the whole universe; other nations were believed to have their own deities assigned to them (e.g. Moab had Chemosh). Yahweh only later became the supreme deity as a result of being syncretized with El (El’s name is also a generic word for deities and in fact, Elohim is actually the plural form of it) which is also why Asherah was later depicted as Yahweh’s consort since she was originally El’s consort. The demonization of Baal comes from Yahweh replacing Baal as the pantheon’s storm god and many of Baal’s functionalities were actually reassigned to Yahweh (e.g. Psalm 29 was originally a hymn to Baal and Psalm 68:4 refers to Yahweh as “he who rides the clouds” which was originally an epithet of Baal). The Israelites didn’t actually become monotheistic until after the Babylonian exile. While it is true the Old Testament already says that the Israelites embraced polytheism at certain points, the Biblical narrative still doesn’t align with what we know. According to the Old Testament, the Israelites started off as monotheistic, then fell to polytheism (while randomly switching back and forth between polytheism and monotheism depending on which king ruled), then finally settling on monotheism. But according to history, they were polytheist from the start and their transition to monotheism was a gradual one that took place over several centuries. Proper monotheism as we know it didn’t exist at all prior to the Babylonian exile. (Cont)
>>18379235The events of the Old Testament are at most based on a distorted memory of real events or outright myths. The Book of Jonah claims that the prophet Jonah converted the peoples of Nineveh around the 8th century BC, but according to actual history Nineveh never converted to Yahwism at any point and still worshipped their native gods until the Christianization of the Assyrians in the 2nd to 3rd centuries AD. King David probably existed, but he was most likely very different from how the Old Testament depicts him (similar to how Gilgamesh and King Arthur might be loosely based on real people). Only the Israelite priests were taken to Babylon, not the whole populace. The Philistines are mentioned in Abraham’s time (18th century BC), but they didn’t exist until after the Bronze Age collapse (12th century BC). Much of Genesis is derived from older Near Eastern myths as the flood story was taken from older Mesopotamian legends and the Garden of Eden story has parallels in Ugaritic texts. The events of Exodus are most likely based on a distorted memory of the Hyksos being expelled from Egypt (the Hyksos were a Canaanite peoples who ruled over Egypt as its 15th dynasty from the 17th to 16th centuries BC and were later overthrown and driven back to Canaan). I’d argue the Old Testament is equivalent to the Song of the Nibelungs; a bunch of scattered myths and unrelated historical events all conflated together into one thing because of semi-illiteracy and nobody at the time of its composition could dispute it because of said semi-illiteracy.(Cont)
>>18379236“Judaism” as we know only fully emerged during the Hellenistic period. The Torah might have been completed sometime during the Persian period, but the rest of the Old Testament wasn’t written until much later; for example the Book of Daniel was not written by “Daniel” during the Babylonian exile but rather in the 2nd century BC under the reign of Seleucid king Antiochus IV Epiphanes, long after the events it was supposedly “predicting” and even these “prophecies” start to get certain details wrong and become extremely vague at a certain point, so we can pinpoint precisely when it was written; sometime between 167 to 164 BC. Along with the non-canonical Book of Enoch, the Book of Daniel was specifically written in the context of the Maccabean Revolt. Daniel himself most likely never even existed and he was probably derived from the earlier Canaanite myth known as the Tale of Aqhat which centers around a righteous ruler also called Daniel.
>>18379236>I’d argue the Old Testament is equivalent to the Song of the Nibelungs; a bunch of scattered myths and unrelated historical events all conflated together into one thing because of semi-illiteracy and nobody at the time of its composition could dispute it because of said semi-illiteracy.Sounds about right. At the very least it reads just like that.
>>18379229YAHU is the one true EL. ELIYAHU proved it.
>>18379233I don't put my faith in human archeologist.
Baal was the prevailing pagan God in the levant, emerging near the end of the bronze age. During the recovery after the bronze age collapse, Phoenicians spread it as far as Carthage and Babylon, possibly influencing the Greek's conception of their own sky god, Zeus, since Baal seems to be the earliest depiction of a God hurling lightning bolts like a javelin, the Phoenicians also brought numerous eastern trade goods and an alphabet. Baal was worshipped in many different ways by all these cultures, but most notoriously was Baal Hammon implicated in child sacrifice worshipped by Carthage and biblical Topheth.Early jews used the word Ba'al to describe their one God, since Ba'al also means "lord".1 Chronicles 143 And David took more wives at Jerusalem: and David begat more sons and daughters....7 And Elishama, and Beeliada, and Eliphalet.King David naming one of his sons after Baal is a clear indication of Baal's influence. However later the Jews attempted to wipe the word, renaming David's son2 Samuel 516 And Elishama, and Eliada, and Eliphalet.Baal thus became an evil god, a demon who ruled the other demons and posed as a god on earth, though subordinate to satan. Abrahamics nowadays consider Baal an element of satan's influence on earth and this combined with the horror of child sacrifice is a keen subject of interest.
>>18379268Elon spawned Yahoo before they were both conflated with Bella Hadid and became the monotony god of Israel.
>>18379287>Baal seems to be the earliest depiction of a God hurling lightning bolts like a javelinI think the Vedic storm god Indra was also described as hurling thunderbolts like javelins.
>>18379295In the beginning only YAHU existed.
>>18379295>Elon spawned YahooWouldn't be surprised
>>18379390Freemasons love Gadreel.
>>18379127Weren't they redeemed as a form of symbolic sacrifice?
>>18379409Yes, but there's evidence that this "symbolic sacrifice" replaced human sacrifice. In Leviticus 27:28-29 an important rule is laid down about sacrifices. The Hebrew word for it is "cherem" (חרם), meaning "utterly destroyed", "banned", etc. "Devoted to destruction" is how "cherem" is translated here. It applies to humans, property, and animals. In Latin, it is translated as "devotio" and in Greek "anathema". Both of those terms meant "sacrificed to a god" in their original context. Not only are humans included in what can be "cherem", they very often are in the text.
>>18379409>>18379429And where it's not the term used, there's a very strong implication of this idea. Take the example of David offering up Saul's children and grandchildren to end a famine in 2 Samuel. Despite not framing it as ritual sacrifice they're taken to a mountain and killed to appease YHWH. This is clearly another case where offspring are sacrificed as a way to obtain the god's favor or avoid his wrath, in the same manner as Isaac and Jephthah's daughter are sacrificed.
>>18379409>>18379429>>18379442Another example is the case of Achan and his family. The Israelites sacrifice the entire population of Jericho, along with their valuables and animals. The sacrificial nature of "cherem" is the reason animals are included in all those Biblical massacres. It was a mass offering. Achan had held back some loot that was suppose to be devoted, leading to Joshua losing cleromancy to determine who was guilty. The lot fell on Achan. The language in Joshua 7 indicates that taking a "cherem" object makes everyone in the group also become "cherem". Joshua does what he is told. Achan, along with his children, possessions, and livestock, are stoned and burned. This appeases Yahweh's anger because of Achan having kept things that were meant to be offerings to him. This was not considered unjust, as it was a matter of cherem.
>>18378937it's the title of your patron god.
>>18379452There is another close example in 1 Samuel 14. Engaged in war, Saul makes a vow that anyone who eats before the day is up will die. His son Jonathan eats some honey, ignorant of this vow. Some kind of cleromancy from Yahweh reveals to the priest that someone has transgressed this. It turns out to be Jonathan. The only thing that stops Saul from killing his son is the objection of his troops. This case is ambiguous, but makes more sense in light of cherem and the seriousness of vows. Otherwise, why would Yahweh indicate to Saul that he should kill his son? And yet another case is the slaughter of the Amalekites. Samuel tells Saul to slay the Amalekites, animals, babies, women, children, all of them. The word used is again, "cherem". That is the reason why it has to be so merciless, and the reason for what happens after. Saul messes up. He spares the king of Amalek and some of the choice livestock. Samuel is angry with him, and curses Saul that he will not be king for long. Saul says that he was taking the king and animals to the altar of Yahweh at Gilgal. Samuel doesn't care. Cherem meant that all that belonged to Yahweh anyway, and Saul had just denied him his offerings. A similar offense to Achan, actually. Samuel corrects it by finishing the job. He hacks Agag to pieces at Yahweh's altar. A small plea for mercy does not move him.
>>18379304>Vedic storm god Indrapostdates most near eastern stuff. the indus valley civilized almost as late as Europe.
>>18379268>YAHU is the one true ELThere is only one 'El, and his name is not YHWH
>>18379429"Cherem" was a practice of other Semitic peoples as well. The Mesha Stele shows that the Moabites did the same thing, and it uses the same word for it, as Moabite was basically a dialect of Hebrew. Note how "sacrifice" is used here, it would not be used in the Biblehttps://www.livius.org/sources/content/anet/320-the-stela-of-mesha/I looked at a transcription of the Phoenician letters on the Stele. Incidentally, the Hebrews used the same alphabet until they adopted their current one from the Persian era Aramaic script. It reads 𐤄𐤕𐤌𐤓𐤇𐤄, or "the cherem". Everyone was killed for the Moabite god, Chemosh. In 2 Kings 3, the Israelites, led by Joram, Jehoshaphat, and the King of Edom, besieged Moab. When the Moabite king, Mesha, sacrificed his firstborn son to Chemosh on the city wall, "qetseph" (קָ֫צֶף) or "great wrath" fell upon the Israelites, causing them to retreat. The Moabites were able to drive back the Israelite army and YHWH by summoning the divine fury of Chemosh through cherem.
>>18379479You get to say that when you can get your EL to sends fire from heaven and light up a sacrifice with thousands as witnesses.
>>18379472They weren’t influenced by the Phoenicians, so I think the imagery of storm gods hurling lightning bolts like javelins is a genuine Indo-European tradition.
>>18379541>yourYou seem to be mistaken. You worship Him, or at least a fictitious, twisted and warped idea that was given to you by other deluded outsiders.His judgement has been known since, in response to disrespecting a cult dedicated towards his son and generally being a detestable nuisance, He struck down Elijah for being a retarded cave dwelling mongoloid.
>>18379472The earliest Harappan sites date to around the same time as the earliest proper sumerian sites. This however is irrelevant because the Indus Valley Civilization and Indian culture from the Vedic era onwards have very little tangible relation that doesn't amount to post-hoc reasoning and wishful thinking.
>>18379623God made Eliyahu untouchable. The guards that were sent to arrest them had to beg him for mercy to not get burned alive. And the queen who persecuted him was thrown off a balcony and eaten by dogs until only her hands and feet remained.
>>18379631Near East was civilized since PPNB at the absolute latest with its large scale urbanism and industry. Sumerians didn't do shit except be the first to advance into linear writing.
>>18378937Never understood why so many anti-Jews accuse Jews of worshipping this guy when it's literally the Jews' own propaganda book that makes him the villain and justifies the Jews' conquest of Canaan by defaming and slandering anyone who worshipped Ba'al/Moloch/etc. Like the whole concept of him being "inherently evil" is LITERALLY taken straight out of the Jewish Bible, nobody else would give a shit about who this guy is if they weren't influenced by Abrahamic beliefs.
>>18379688Because they're fucking stupid and don't know what they're talking about. Is that what you wanted to hear? Antisemites are knuckle dragging mongoloid retards to the last of them.
>>18379688There was no conquest of Canaan, the Jews emerged from the Canaanites so the book is just a repudiation of what not just the other tribes did but also what the Israelites did in their ancient past. There's some inconsistencies with the sacrifice of Isaac that suggest it really was an actual sacrifice that was carried through, just later on it became changed when human sacrifice was no longer desired.In another timeline where it wasn't the Judaeans who came out on top we'd all be worshipping Qaus of the Edomites and there'd be a similar narrative of Qaus stopping human sacrifice.
>>18379698Yeah I don't dispute that either, I was just making reference to the Biblical party line to simplify things but essentially yeah, Jewish/Hebrew propaganda either way and accusations of Jews worshipping him strike me as ridiculous as accusing Ronald Reagan of being a Communist all along
>>18378963Kek
>>18379688Me neither
