Do you think all those prophets actually believed in their own holiness and what they said and preached, or did they know they were making shit up?I'm especially curious about Muhammad, since many of his revelations were so convenient and he was basically just a warlord.
>>18386781>Do you think all those prophets actually believed in their own holiness and what they said and preached, or did they know they were making shit up?>I'm especially curious about Muhammad, since many of his revelations were so convenient and he was basically just a warlord.yes, they knew
Im more curious what they would think if they saw the consequences of their actions.
>>18386787Id say they would all agree or at least understand
>>18386781Definitely depends on the prophet. Mani started hearing flowers sing and fruit begging him not to eat him... Surely a prophet who is celibate, fasts, believes and preaches non-violence and willing to be imprisoned until death must believe in himself or his own teachings.
>>18386781>making shit up?Professors are not suppose to just "make shit up". Their peer group should be discovering truth, and professing their findings. But I a agree, some college professors just make shit up and use their position of authority to manipulate and corrupt young minds with fantasy.
>>18388233anon there might be a gas leak in your house
>>18388202Yeah the real measure of fraud is how much they gained and lost by claiming to be a prophet. Buddha and Jesus were most certainly convinced they were right. Joseph Smith was pretty much a fraud and Muhammad most likely as well.
>>18388202Wouldn't be surprised if prophets like Mani were genuinely mentally ill, suffering from the likes of schizophrenia.
>>18388247It took a while for things to turn around for Muhammad, though.
>>18388289True. Maybe the bullshitting came later
>>18388290It did in fact come later. When Aisha was being accused of adultery with another boy near her age, Muhammad did not give a verdict until a month later, by which time he could see if she had a period or not. Once this was done and he confirmed that she definitely wasn’t pregnant (because that’s what mattered back then), he proclaimed her innocence as prophecy.
>>18388301Islam has a lot of very convenient revelations like thatLike there's an entire Quranic verse to tell people to leave Muhammad's house
>>18388324There’s also one where Muhammad relaxes Ramadan fasting rules after taking a long journey. Like, if you’re gonna copy the Orthodox Lent fast, at least be authentic.
>>18388301>>18388324>>18388331any more verses/hadith like that?
>>18388382From Sahih Muslim 1453a:>Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa signs of disgust upon entering Salim, who is an ally, into our house, whereupon Allah’s Apostle said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah’s Messenger smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man.Woman has a problem with an ally entering her house unprompted and uninvited? Have her satisfy the Prophet’s breastfeeding kink, kek.
>>18388382Everyone here seems to know about the Zutt orgy, heavily implied to be immigrant Indian Jatts. See picrel for some prime gooner shit that would make /d/ blush
>>18388382I don't remember it exactly, but there's one where Muhammed makes someone drink his piss with the promise that it will cure his disease.
>>18388290>>18388324You also have to factor in just how much was actually anything Muhammed (or any of these prophets) actually said or did as opposed to a later author claimed he said or did. The Hadith especially are basically entirely bullshit various factions invented long after Muhammed's death or random folktales about him from places he never even visited. Before his body was even cold his companions were accusing each other of inventing stuff to suit their own agendas. And the Quran isn't much better. So it's next to impossible to truly know what Muhammed was actually preaching (and how much of it he believed) beyond a broad outline.
>>18389009It does not matter when a lot of Islam (fasting, prayer rules etc.) comes from the hadith. Even if you say there's hadith "science" to try and separate the wheat from the weeds, the mere fact that the marriage of the Prophet to Aisha was never questioned and never declared as false on grounds that it'd be contradictory with childhood innocence and the Most Merciful nature of Allah as described in the Quran until the modern day when societal values changed, really speaks volumes as to how reliable the hadith "science" is.Current Islam that abandoned the Quranism and proto-rationalism of the first two centuries following the Prophet's death is a perversion that relies on hadith and obsessing over the Prophet's life. The Prophet was, and always was, a mere man, yet they embellish his name with the "Peace be upon him" and whatnot that not even Christians do when talking about Jesus.Islam will likely undergo a Quranist Reformation soon, and once they abandon all hadith that contradict the dogma of the Quran, they will do away with child marriage and all sorts of backward practices. Islam would then return to another Golden Age.
>>18386781we're still on /his/ lets before that let's debate whether muhammad even existed to begin with
>>18389767He did exist.>Nooooo but we aren't 10000% sureIf you need video evidence to believe in anything, focus on 20th century history.
>>18389782I'd say my confidence muhammad existed in some capacity is about 40%The confidence that he lived in mecca and did most of what's described in the sunna and the sira is about 5%
>>18389806That's because you're a retard. You can't be convinced breakfast existed, even if you ate it, a moment after it has concluded.
>>18386781Depends on the prophet.>ZoroasterYes>JesusYes>BuddhaMaybe>MuhammedNo way>ManiPossibly>>18386787Zoroaster would probably be pretty happy. Most of what he worked for and wanted happened. Humanity ceased human and animal sacrifice, people don't like killing dogs or otters, it worked out.
>>18389806I disagree. I think there are more proofs for muhammad existing in some kind of form than jesus existing. I'm 85% certain that muhammad existed while I'm only 40% certain that jesus existed.
>>18386781>believedIf they were enlightened they knew, not believed. All the beliefs are revealed to be illusory (mere thoughts) and therefore let go of upon awakening.
>>18388400Christianity is lucky Christ didn't live another 30 years, because you'd have hundreds of weird anectdotes like this about him too. Liberated beings sometimes do socially awkward shit. Deal with it.
>>18389870i wonder if Muhammad was really a schizo where his personality split and his base desires became this "voice" that convinced the other side that he was really hearing Allah.
