We already know that the "Indo-Europeans" called themselves Aryans, but what other ethnonyms did they use? I'm sure there must be something there are at least a handful of Germanic and Celtic ethnonyms.
>>18391462>We already know that the "Indo-Europeans" called themselves AryansNo, it's not really clear that they did, that term is really only attested in Indo-Iranian.
>>18391462This thread is based I'm not a linguist nor do I have knowledge in the area but I read a really good article about some names used by hryans..The ethnonym *Scoti* (Scots) may be related to the *Skythians* (Scythians) Welsh form _Ysgotiaid/Ysgodaid_ (for the Scots) resembles the Assyrian _Išguza and They were called "Išguza" in Assyrian sources, derived from the Avestan "iazu-" ('great'), and Ashkenaz in the Bible..The *Cimbri* may be related to the *Cimmerians*. *ĝhim-_ĝhim_ indicates that the Cimmerian language belonged to the Centum group, like Celtic. The ethnonym Cimmerians reflects the PIE root *ĝhim-. Other related forms appear in Anatolian Indo-European such as Hittite _gimra-_ (‘open field’), Luwian _immara-_, Lycian _Hprã-_, Carian _Imbros_. The Luwian languages show the development [mm] > [mb]..The ethnonym *Venedī* is related to the *(H)enetoi*. The tribal name "Enetoi" (*Wenetoi*) appears in ancient texts associated with Paphlagonia (Anatolia) and Illyria. The original form *Wenetoi* evolved into Ἔνετοι. Examples: - *Walmus > Halmos > Almos (Trojan royal name) - *Welena > Helena* The form *Wenetoi (Veneti)* designates an Italic group in the Venice region and perhaps a Gaulish group in Britain. There is the Slavic autonym *Vęti* (‘Slavs’), Latin Venedi/Veneti and Germanic *Windṓz*, derived from the PIE *Wenhtói* (‘friendly people, relatives’).
>>18391472. Anatolian. Here the root *h2er- is used but not the stem *h2ér-yo-• Hittite arā- ‘member of one’s own group; peer; friend’.• Carian Κᾱ́ρ (Kā́r) 'a Carian'. In the Carian language, /k/ reflects PIE *h22. Germanic• Germanic tribe named Eruli. Pre-Proto-Germanic *aryo-lós > *er(u)l- 'earl' > Eruli ‘(autonym) an east Germanic tribe who lived around the northern coast of the Black Sea’. Here the stem *h2ér-yo- is used as the self-designation of a Germanic tribe. In other words, they called themselves Aryans.• Celtic tribe named Aresaces. Like the Eruli, the stem *h2ér-yo- is also used. Here are the sound changes involved:Gaulish Arius */ar.i̯os/ > (epenthesis) Ariios */a.ri.i̯os/ >Its over, btfo again
>>18391472You lost, see>>18391478You Maggot>>18391473Sources?
>>18391482https://www.academia.edu/38702830/Recurrent_Indo_European_Ethnonyms
>>18391483Are these names reliable? The article seems a bit poorly written, but it's interesting to read.
>>18391485I didn't understand? What do you mean by "reliable"? But I imagine it's legitimate. I read that out of the blue I'm not sure if the linguistics guys accept that because I don't read that stuff My thing is haploautism.
>>18391482I accept my defeat
>>18391462Well the Greek term for Scythian was Sauromatae. Not exactly sure the etymology there with that one. They referred to themselves obviously as Arya/ Anarya
>>18391488looks a bit amateurish
>>18391536"armed with throwing darts and arrows" cognate with Indic Sanskritśárumant
>>18391541>>18391536There are many other ethnonyms. Obviously, we have Sauromatae and Sarmatae and others related: Syrmatae, Yazamatae, Yaxamatae, Thisamatae, Kharimatae and Hormatae
>>18391473the name Sauromatae is semantically related to the name of the Scythians *skuδa-ta, which, according to the most convincing version, can be traced back to the Indo-European root meaning "to shoot," and as an ethnonym "archer." Scots weren't archers at all
>>18391546I'm not sure. The name *Scythians* may have a cultic-religious origin, and not just an ethnic one. It's possible that the original name of the Scythian celestial deity was taboo, and _Papaios_ (cited by Herodotus) was a substitute. The name _Scythians_ may have been an epithem ("archer") that replaced the cult's name, similar to: - _Sharva_ ('shooter') for Rudra (Vedic) - _Keraunios_ ('of the thunderbolt') for Zeus (Greek)
>>18391548What does one thing have to do with the other? But since we're talking about it, actually the term *hūr-maθa- (*χormata) does not appear in historical sources, proof that the ethnonym Hormatai in Hesychius' Lexicon reflected their self-designation. The cultural concept *hūr-maθa- may have been reflected in Indo-Aryan as _saura_ (‘solar’) + _mata_ (‘idea, belief’). As an exonym, *saura-mata entered the Greek tradition as Σαυρομάται (Sauromatae), with /o/ instead of /a/ (as in _Roxolani_, with the ethnonym _Alan_).
>>18391555>The cultural concept *hūr-maθa- may have been reflected in Indo-Aryan as saura? This word wasn't spelled this way, how can we trust you if you make things up?
>>18391557Do you have no concept of linguistic reconstruction?
>>18391563Looks like you don't either. Why make things up?
>>18391462The ethnonym Arverni is a latinized form of Gaulish *Aruernoi from the stem *uernā meaning alder tree Furthermore, the main city of the Arverni Gaulish tribe, led by none other than Vercingetorix, was called Nemossos.Furthermore, *kel "hide, conceal" found in the name of Sucellus (*Su-kel-no-s) could give us a clue about the etymology of "Celt". So the Celts were literally the hidden ones.
>>18391579Wow That's well-founded and based and what about the etymology of "Gauls"? It always seemed to me to have something to do with milk.
>>18391581>GaulsActually, the Gaulish "Galatis "(cognate with "Galatians") has a root *galā related to old Irish gal « fury, valour, steam » + the suffix *-ati. The Celts of Gaul called themselves "Celts" while the Romans called them "Galli" ( which is a deformation of "Galate" via the Etruscan Kalde).
>>18391583and for those who want to know more about these Celts, there are several ethnonyms derived from weapons like that of the Gestates tribe and Cauldron as an etymology is also found in the name of the Parisii, which is the P-Celtic equivalent of Quariates and could be linked with the mythological Cauldron of rebirth. The tribesname may come from Celtic *kwario- ('cauldron').
The ethnonyms *Gothi – Guti* have always kept me awake at night, and there's also the question of – Kuči – Kydōnes*, focusing on the oldest tribe mentioned in Mesopotamian sources, the *Guti*, mentioned in the “Kuthaean Legend of Narām-Sin” (23rd century BC). Some say that the Guti are linked to the Tocharian ethnonym _Kuči_ and described as “nomads, with fair skin and light hair” (Victor Mair). The Gutian king Tirigan has a compound name with the PIE numeral tri- (“three”), similar to the Greek epithet Τριτογένεια (Pallas Athena).
>>18391566I'm curious to know why they're all wrong and you're right, educate us.
>>18391555Interesting
>>18391589They (your) etymological analyzes are terrible and demonstrate a low level of knowledge on the subject, leading to ignorance. Wasn't that Poseidon thread enough? Allow me to educate you guys (again), for I am the one with a thousand epithets. First of all, start by showing your sources or stop doing things up. Your lord, the magnificent, the great, the brilliant, the adored, will teach you. Serious academics and recent reviews attest to the etymology of Sarmatians as "the enclosed/protected ones." The great one is about to explain, so pay attention The PIE root *Qel- (‘to hide, conceal, cover’) has cognates in several Indo-European languages:- Avestan: *sar- (‘shelter’)- Middle Persian and Parthian: *s'rw'r (‘helmet’)- Sogdian: *sr'kh (‘head covering’)- Kurdish: *šrdinawa, *hašr (‘to hide’, ‘ambush’)- NEIR: *sUr-/sUrd (‘to creep, spy’)- Sanskrit: *śárman- (‘covering, protecting’)IE cognates: Latin *cēlre, Old Irish *celim, Gothic *huljan, OHG *helan, English *helmet.Ref: *LIV: 322 f., Pok.: 553.
What about the Germanics
>>18391611
>>18391588>and described as “nomads, with fair skin and light hairHow exactly?
>>18391616Borrowed from Celtic
>>18391472Aryan is just a derivative ethnonym of the Proto-Indo-European term heryos. Northern Europeans have the most PIE ancestry. You’re *bʰerH. Keep coping.
>>18391596not everyone is the same person schizo
>>18391605Hallin, Harii, Harudes, Hasdingi, Helisii, Helveconae,Heruli, Hermunduri, Hilleviones
>>18391605arbijarjostēz
>>18392090arbijarjostēz has to be rejected in favour of arbijasijostēz, and *erilaz cannot derive from *h2e- due to the vowel. It actually means "warrior", from *erǭ 'war, battle', found in ON as jara 'id.'
>>18392092Poor white supremacists kek
>>18391462Irish has an equivalent of the German Abenland and Morgenland. Old Goidelic ethnonym was "Fir Fuinidh" (men of the west, men of the land of the setting sun)
>>18392096people used the ethnonym "Aryan" (or better, the ancestor of the indo-iranian word), but in historic time was used explicitely by people who were genetically and culturally NOT Eurocucks... its a brown ethnonym, only brown people should use it
>>18392092>*erilaz cannot derive from *h2e- due to the vowel.Normally this would be true, but the same sound change that caused PIE *tosi̯o > *tasi̯a > Proto-Germanic *þes > Gothic þis created *erlaz from earlier *ari̯al-https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%90%8C%B8%F0%90%8C%B9%F0%90%8D%83#GothicIt's a type of umlaut + syncope.
>>18392105the people who gave that ethnonym to brownoids would shudder in disgust if they ever saw their poopy shit fleshed "descendants"
>>18392085Etymologies?
>>18392105Mexicans or any modern Latinx may very well call themselves "Hispanics" as an ethnonym, but that will never change the fact that the people who actually used this ethnonym were on the Iberian Peninsula since the Roman period, the same with "Latin." Just as a jamjeets or a zagrojeetors uses the ethnonym Arian, in the same way that Latinx use Hispanic and Latinx, there's no instance that changes the fact that all three ethnonyms were used by Europeans and created by them in first place.
>>18392277>>18392258Persians weren't white
>>18392278And how would this refute the arguments? The so-called "Persian" language is dated from at most 600 BC to 300 BC, and the term was used in Europe long before that; there are records of its use among the Mycenaeans.
>>18392283>there are records of its use among the Mycenaeans.According to.. Yes. Genarchivist.cuck isn't?
>>18391612>>18391611You're hopeless, aren't you, my friend? You insist on nonsense with low probability, like those comments of yours about Poseidon where you ran away in fear, or you posting this nonsense again, and those low-quality articles by the Armenian with little credibility. But did you read this before posting? Beli* cannot be directly related in the Indo-European context due to the lack of regular phonetic changes. It is a Semitic myth. The name was *borrowed* from another language, possibly from the Semitic _bʿl_ "lord". You didn't answer me in that thread and that made you run away. Bel (Armenian) and Bēlos (Greek) derive from the Semitic _bʿl_, Greek mythology is 1/3 borrowed. What's your next big post? That Maruts is Mars or that Marutas Kassita is Vedic Marut???
>>18392864You say that simply because you read Petrosyan's conclusions and repeated them like a parrot. Do you know that we are not obligated to agree with the authors and their conclusions when it comes to discussing data? Think for yourself Besides, his argument that this arrived in the British Isles due to a magical Semitic borrowing in the Balkans by the Celts is more fantastic than simply assuming we are dealing with a PIE
>>18392867>dealing with PIEArmenian and Norse forms lack the regular soundshift, which may point to the late origin of their names. whatever the source of the Celtic Beli/Bile might have been, this figure was identified or conflated with the Semitic b‘l ‘lord’. That's nothing wrong with being influenced by your neighboring dudes anon See how schizophrenic this le parallels can be>>18391588
>>18392871You copy and paste the authors' conclusions like a wimp, I want to see YOUR ARGUMENTS. The comparison between Indian Bali and Welsh Beli may allude to a protoform *beli-, chronologically pointing to a Roto-Indo-European era, without limiting ourselves to a magical borrowing that the Celts of the Balkans received and then migrated to the British Isles and somehow reached Scandinavia. Which is more likely here?
>>18392882>more likely Borrowed from Semitic, maybe already in PIE times
>>18392895But your theory doesn't exactly explain how this arrived in India and Scandinavia. I imagine you're saying it was during the Germanic invasions of the British Isles in 795 AD, but what about India? I sincerely hope for an answer. And these similarities are explained as a borrowing, I imagine? *Mawr ‘Great Beli’* (Celtic) is comparable to *Mahabali ‘Great Bali’* (Indian): - Both are "great" (Mawr/Maha) and rule the Otherworld. - *Mawr*: father of the children of Don (Celtic). - *Mahabali*: son of Danu, leader of the Danavas (Indian).The argument boils down to this: starting from the premise that the reconstruction of IE *b is improbable, therefore, the name must necessarily be borrowed from another language. And which Semitic language exactly are we dealing with here?
>>18392903>cryingThis isn't a real reconstruction, just as the semantic difference between drops and seawater will never be compared. You're clinging to completely unrelated details to create a narrative. And what about those shameful threads of yours about Hurrians and Indo-Europeans?1) The regular sound change is missing. 2) Bel and Belos of the Armenian and Greek myths are undoubtedly derived from the Semitic b‘l’ lord. 3) The reconstruction of IE *b is, at the very least, improbable because it is invented and not recorded in any serious lexicon. Thus, the name is to be borrowed from another language. 4) This crappy article claims that the Celtic *Beli/Bile* and the Indian *Bali* are linked to *Danu/Don*, and to *Belos*, i.e., *Beli/Bile* was borrowed from outside
LinguistardsWhat about this one
>>18392919Blogspot
>>18392917NTAThis is the first time I've seen this myth, but it seems unlikely to me that the Greeks borrowed it. The term "Danaos" (Danai) is also used in Greek literature (such as in the Odyssey) to refer to Greeks in general, so why would you refer to yourself with an ethnonym from another people? And what about the ethnonym Danes? Perhaps it's related?
>>18392864you are not talking to who you think you are retard.MEDS NOW
>>18392948>so why would you refer to yourself with an ethnonym from another people?Don't be fooled by pathetic, low-quality articles this guy above is kind of a lunatic, repeating any garbage from *academia.cope that he sees. But about your question, it's actually quite common: Look at the Hittites conquering and adopting the cultural identity of the indigenous, non-Indo-European Hattians, so adopting a foreign ethonym isn't impossible. >ethnonym Danes? Perhaps it's related?We have already proven that the Germanic "beli" has no substance whatsoever, not even mythological, and the Germanic Danes and Denmark were inhabited by various Germanic peoples since ancient times, including the Angles, Cimbri, Jutes, Heruli, Teutons; it was not a unified tribe. Proto-Germanic root, *den- or *dan-, meaning "low," "flat," or "low ground," so nah
>>18392952I accept your concession
>>18392965>schizo thinks everyone is the same personMEDS IMMEDIATELY
>>18392979Even if it's not you, why does it matter? Get out of here, friend. Either contribute or SCRAPPED.
>>18392917That's ridiculous, you didn't address the chronological and geographic difficulties this theory has. How did it arrive in India and Scandinavia? And when exactly? Let's say there wasn't much interaction with the "East" and Scandinavia. I ended up reading more in depth and it says it derives from Akkadian, but it implies a Babylonian deity related to the Semitic Baal or epithet of other deities, and there are more differences than similarities here. In fact, there are more similarities between Celtic and Indian myths than with Proto-Semitic *baʕl and how it was used by the Semites. Again, explain how this actually happened.
>>18392996Stop playing around with semaflag and semantics, you still haven't explained the crucial point: reconstruction of IE *b is improbable. Recent studies prove early contact between the Steppe and Babylonian civilizations; in fact, board games were taught to the Steppe peoples by the Semites.
>>18393008>improbable
A phoneme being rare in PIE doesn't mean it's impossible
>>18392983Calm down saar
>>18392921What?
>>18392983because apparently either I live rent-free in your head or you argue in bad faith to the point that you willingly assume I'm someone else. Why would I talk to either kind of person?
>>18393099Cry harder
>>18393012Most likely this root is reconstructible with *b because of the following *l.PIE had ablaut in roots, so this root would vary *bel- ~ *bl-. It is the cluster *bl- that is most likely directly responsible for the survival of *b.A mostly missing *b from the phonology of PIE doesn't happen for a random reason. PIE had *bʰ for example, but *b was rare, and this requires and explanation.One way to understand this is that the "voiced, unaspirated" series came from implosives.Most instances of Pre-PIE *ɓ became PIE *m.*ɓel- ~ *ɓl- became *bel- ~ *bl-.This theory neatly explains the word for apple:*h2ebōl ~ *h2ebl-https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/h%E2%82%82%C3%A9b%C5%8DlWe also find that the dative plural endings vary in PIE:*-mós ~ *-bʰósThis is easily explained with an earlier implosive *ɓ which had an allophone *bʰ (or *bʱ), and this allophone *bʰ was generalized in some branches. For example, if the ending *-ɓós followed a nasal, an implosive would be awkward in that cluster.
>>18393126Cannot prove the *Bel mythology as being PIE
Maybe they are referring to the conflict between aryan vs dasa? What do u think?
I'll explain. There are some Zoroastrian scribes called Bundashin, and one of them is Fereydun, considered one of the oldest ancestral heroes of the Iranians. We are dealing with an eponymous figure, as Fereydun is seen as a hero who divided his kingdom among his three sons (Iraj, Tur, and Salm) and established the royal lineage of Iran. But then the conflict with Iran's enemies begins.It is said that when Fereydun entered Iranian territory, he expelled a tribal people with black skin who migrated to the coastal region, but the text presents a derogatory explanation about the origin of this people.To which population the term Bundashin refers is a great mystery. personally, I agree with those who say it could be the Elamites, due to geographical reasons. which population does the term Bundashin refer?
>>18393273Another useful thing to consider is that *my* interpretation of Fereydun's story points to an ancestral migratory event, and the fact that he is an eponymous hero figure is interesting. But it doesn't end there. I think there's something useful. From what I understand, the forms of the name derive from Proto-Iranian *Θraitauna- (Avestan Θraētaona-) and Proto-Indo-Iranian *Traitaunas. Traitaunas is derived from Tritas, a god/hero reflected in the Vedic Trita and the Avestan Θrita, meaning "the third," associated with triads. Trita is linked to gods of thunder and wind in the Vedas. The name Traitaunas can be interpreted as "the great son of Tritas." And to extend this even further.In reconstructed Indo-European mythology, Triton (the first warrior) establishes that raids were not about recovering property. Waging war with the indigenous people for livestock was a noble activity, protected by the warrior god and sanctioned by myth.The myth *Trito is the first cattle raid, it seems that Indo-Iranian warriors identified with Trita/Θraētaona, reflecting this myth, and although the story of Fereydun does not explicitly deal with cattle, we are dealing with conflicts against aboriginal peoples.But to limit oneself solely to Iranian branches would be irresponsible, although that's not my main argument. Trito defeating a serpent and recovering cattle. It's well preserved, and a version of it seems to appear on one of the Germanic Iron Age Horns of Gallehus—at least that's how it's been interpreted. But the point is about how this could reflect an ancient, invasive memory about the early Iranians in Iran and how it correlates to the myth
>>18393291>>18393273>>18393126Besides this bullshit *bel, do you have a new crazy idea?
>>18393294>youdifferent people in these posts.I just stopped in to offer some info on historical phonology.
As far as I know, there are no other versions of the Indo-European myths of Manu and Yemo, where Manu kills Yemo (the first sacrifice), creating the world and the three social classes, besides the Iranian and Germanic versions, but perhaps some parts or the archetype exist in Ireland, in the Irish epic Táin Bó Cúalnge, about the dispute over the bull Donn Cúailnge.
>>18393304And got btfo
>>18393313I know big daddy
>>18393313>>18393368you lost
>>18393405How
>>18391625That the term has a PIE etymon (which is nowhere close to universally agreed on) is not the same thing as saying that it was used as an autonym by the PIEs.
>>18393605The ethnonym sense goes back to PIE. That's why there's a Celtiberian inscription which refers to Aryans in the plural of a collective.The word used is ⟨araianom⟩. ⟨araia-⟩ is an ā-stem (< Proto-Celtic *ari̯ā- < PIE */h2eri̯-eh2-/) which is to be read as a collective noun, the same type of collective noun as Proto-Celtic *toutā "people, tribe"https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Celtic/tout%C4%81The ending ⟨-nom⟩ is the genitive plural. This means ⟨araianom⟩ must be read as "of the Aryan peoples/tribes". The use of a collective here is astounding. It allows us to see quite explicitly that there existed this Aryan identity that applied to groups of people.The inscription refers to the god Lugus as "Lugus of the Aryan peoples".Celtiberian inscription located here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pe%C3%B1alba_de_Villastar>To the mountaineer and..., to Lugus of the Aryan peoples/tribes, in rural procession we came. For the mountaineer and the equestrian, for Lugo, the chief of the community raised a roof/covering, (also) a roof for the thiasus
>>18393605You lost
>>18391462In Europe specifically it was Veneti and its linguistic variants, descended from PIE "wen-", meaning something like "allies", "friends", "beloveds", or more generally "the people". Form this we can derive words like Old Norse "vindr", pre-Germanic "wenetos", Old Irish "fine", Welsh "gwynedd" and so forth.Considering that many indigenous languages across the world have similarly literal translations for things (many other ethnonyms also call themselves "the people", rivers are called "the river", mountains "the mountain", etc.) I find this to be the most likely answer.
>>18393843Does this mean Venetian is the true descendant of PIE?
>>18393843>>18393859See>>18391473
>>18393605>>18393731>*crickets*
Are these words related to Aryan? I remember a guy posting the name of a Mycenaean woman with the feminine form of Aryan and a Mycenaean cognate. After I posted that Baltic word, I found a Mycenaean lexicon book and found these words. Are they Aryan? I saw your threads about Aryans and things like that.
>>18391473Is this correct?
>>18395003Αρ(ει)μένης And if you're correct and Aryaman is indeed Corded Ware, I wonder if this word is related, but it's a personal name. The end of ignoring Baltic and Greek languages has come.
>>18395019 If so it makes sense because αρούρα means unit of land.
>>18395019Other questions: Is Κουρῆτες related to koryos? I found them quite similar.
>>18395003⟪a-ro2-⟫ can be alternatively transcribed as ⟪a-rjo-⟫ or ⟪a-(ř)řo-⟫. Beekes gives an instance of this word as ⟪a-rjo-a2⟫ /arjoha/. See pic. The later Greek descendant of this word is ἀρείων. Here is its definition:https://logeion.uchicago.edu/%E1%BC%80%CF%81%CE%B5%CE%AF%CF%89%CE%BDA virtual PIE interpretation of Mycenaean /arjoha/ would be *h2er-i̯os-m̩ (accusative)This word is a i̯os-stem. That is different from a i̯o-stem. *-i̯os- is used to form comparatives.See here for the differing suffixes:https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/-y%C5%8Dshttps://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/-y%C3%B3sThe principle "Aryan word" is PIE *h2er-i̯o- and not the stem *h2er-i̯os- (which is a comparative).Mycenaean /arjo-/ means something like "better". It is not an ethnonym, but it is actually related to the Aryan word in that they share the root *h2er-. They are different words formed from the same base.The Greek evidence helps us reconstruct general meanings attached to the root *h2er-, but this particular word provides no evidence for Greeks calling themselves Aryans.
>>18395019>Αρ(ει)μένηςThis word appears to be the same type of formation as the word δυσμενής with accent retraction involving Wheeler's law (i.e., *Areimenós > *Areiménos)https://www.academia.edu/2761352/Wheelers_LawΑρ(ει) is from Ἄρειος.You may see its definition here:https://logeion.uchicago.edu/%E1%BC%8C%CF%81%CE%B5%CE%B9%CE%BF%CF%82
>>18395047>Κουρῆτες related to koryos?No. It's *kori̯- > AG ⟨koir-⟩.⟨kour-⟩ is from *koru̯-
>>18395019>Aryaman is indeed Corded WareThe Armenian evidence deserves further investigation. I do not currently believe Aryaman is limited to Corded Ware.
>>18395049It's undeniable how similar they are at first glance. >>18395078Where did you find this article?>>18395082It's possible, but if you conclude that there isn't even the use of Aryan in Greek, I find that hard to believe
>>18395407Of course, related words
>>18395003Kek europeans larping as aryan is so funny you guys aren't even sons of Manu
>>18395455? I think nobody besides 20-year larppagans cares about this My interest is purely mythological, and I'm a Christian. I don't even believe Manu existed, and why do you say that? I don't know if we can say for sure that Manu is Corded Ware or Yamnaya, but why do you think it would be impossible? If I'm not mistaken, the Germanic peoples worshipped Manu.
>>18395407>Where did you find this article?https://doi.org/10.3989/emerita.2007.v75.i2.195
>>18395464>Germanic mannusIt's totally different, there's no European manu, stop lying.
>>18395490this Koryos thing is more complex than I thought it seems to be one of those parallels that exists in all fields. It's a shame that almost no one talks about it.>>18395525I'm not lying, saar there is a Germanic manu although the myth isn't exactly the same.
I found an amateur article written by some crazy person on Reddit and I think it might be useful. What do you lunatics think?https://www.academia.edu/117335778/Kassite_and_Mitanni_Words_of_Indo_Iranian_Origin_Draft_
>>18395682Looks 10000% wrong
>>18395682Interestingly
>>18395078PDF.?
>>18396262Its outdated Today we know koryos is BS
>>18396262download link is on this pagehttps://doi.org/10.3989/emerita.2007.v75.i2.195
>>18396350Thank you very much >>18396273>BSWhy, retard?
>>18395407>I find that hard to believeThen let's take a look at Urartian. Urartian is loaded with Armenian loanwords.In particular, there are two Urartian personal names worth observing:• ⟨Erimena⟩• ⟨Eria⟩Urartian shows ⟨e⟩ for Armenian /a/ in certain situations.⟨Erimena⟩ is comparable to Old Persian ⟪a-r-mi-i-n⟫ "Armenia". Old Persian shows the later Armenian syncope of the first /-i-/.Both ⟨Erimena⟩ and ⟨Eria⟩ end in ⟨-a⟩ because this is the common convention for Urartian names.A reconstruction can be given:PIE *[h2ari̯(o)-mén-]† > Proto-Arm */ari-min-/ => Urar ⟨Erimena⟩PIE *[h2ari̯ó-] > Proto-Arm */ari̯o-/ => Urar ⟨Eria⟩† It is unclear atm if the /o/ was syncopated due to Armenian historical phonology or if it's not there for morphological reasons.The Urartian vocalism could be explained as fronting /a/ before /i̯/ in the next syllable and */-min-/ => ⟨-men-a⟩ as lowering /i/ before /a/ in the next syllable.
>>18396606
>>18396863>>18396606Wow, I didn't know that! That's too cool, you convinced me! All that's missing is the Greek.
>>18393731This doesn't count as a real source (evidence). When were these names for specific things in each region introduced? And based on what, if we don't have real linguistic sources from the past? Inscriptions, books, etc., yes. But that doesn't apply to prehistoric languages, of course. Therefore, it remains highly conjectural.
>>18397278Also, 1.You can try to date and locate a language, but without sources, it's a speculative assumption, nothing more, nothing less.2. No, not automatically, but a written source or audio recording facilitates and, above all, "substantiates" the process by providing evidence.3. Proto-languages are, in fact, a reconstruction (based on later languages!) and therefore were probably not spoken in that way anywhere and at any time. This is a difference from existing real languages. This is crucial for determining the origin and location of a language.4. First, you have an assumption, and that assumption may or may not be corroborated by sources. With sources, it can be anchored. An absolute chronology or location obtained by methods of the natural sciences needs some explanation for me; what is your contribution?
A quick question for you all. I'm a renowned historian, but I want to know something... the search for a source (in most scientific disciplines, called evidence or facts) is not, in my view, something trivial, but rather quite basic. I don't know any historian, for example, who doesn't emphasize the need for good and reliable sources. In my opinion, nothing is trivial, much less something that surpasses any scientific investigation. In other words: writing history without qualified sources is like writing a historical novel.
>>18397298>>18397319>>18397298You got us. PIE studies lost hail sheiva
>>18397321Without proof, Easter Island is as valid as any other place on Earth, even in the hole that is India. Or would you say that we no longer need sources/proof/facts? Your reconstruction articles from academia.edu have no academic weight. Remember: pots and tongues are not people.
>>18397329The nonsense of denying any relationship between material culture and language is no older than the 1950s and is backed by linguistic motivations. Remember when your ilk said that bell beakers were simply a multicultural style of pottery? So, archaeogenemic tests show a relationship of integration between the steppe and areas dominated by pottery? There is no evidence of human occupation on Easter Island until long after the fall of Rome. And the question of India is political. A previous occupation is a requirement for Easter Island to have originated from Proto-Indo-European. What is the probability of finding a sufficiently old occupation? Less than 1%? If so, Easter Island is not the cradle of Proto-Indo-European (with a 99% confidence level). You're a joke, all people who go to college are retarded.
>>18397344Come on, man! I emphasize the need for evidence for something to be valid. Am I wrong for that? I love the scientific method, and it leaves no room for romantic notions of historical linguistics; ceramics aren't people, and modern academia knows that, even archaeogeneticists. I'm not saying it's valid everywhere in the world. But to be valid, it needs evidence. So please, don't mess it up. Thank you. You Guys sources:>PIE *[h2ari̯ó-] > Proto-Arm */ari̯o-/ => Urar ⟨Eria⟩What...? There's no evidence for this. Reconstruction isn't evidence
>>18397355That guy isn't me, I never said I agreed with him at any point, don't get things mixed up here, but it's a fact that historical linguistics has its value, and it has been confirmed by archaeology and genetics. Mallory already postulated that the source of PIE was in the steppes, and genetics says exactly the same thing. It was always said that Proto-Greek came from northern Greece, and today we know that the source for Proto-Greek is actually north of Thessaly.
>>18397278>This doesn't count as a real source (evidence).Are you actually retarded?
>>18397355Historical linguistics is considered a scientific discipline. It is an empirical field that uses the comparative method and systematic analysis to study how languages evolve, change over time, and relate to one another.>>PIE *[h2ari̯ó-] > Proto-Arm */ari̯o-/ => Urar ⟨Eria⟩>What...?What you're missing is context. It is only after establishing the existence of this word *[h2ari̯ó-] that it makes sense to connect Armenian and Urartian words to it. It is because we know the word existed and we understand the sound changes involved from PIE to Armenian to Urartian that this etymological account makes sense.The PIE word *[h2ari̯ó-] has already been established by the comparative method applied to the abundant secure data principally in Italo-Celtic and Indo-Iranian.
>>18397478>>18397452Could someone identify a proto-language in time and space without primary sources?
>>18397563You literally just denied a real, primary source and said it doesn't count. If you're skeptical about the existence of Proto-Indo-European as a language or don't understand how linguistic reconstruction works, here is some reading material for you:Beekes, R. S. (2011). Comparative Indo-European Linguistics.Fortson IV, B. W. (2011). Indo-European language and culture: An introduction. John Wiley & Sons.Ringe, D. (2017). From Proto-Indo-European to Proto-Germanic (Vol. 1). Oxford University Press.
>>18397578These "genetic Indo-Europeans" do not correspond to linguistic Indo-Europeans, but are merely an illusory projection of a certain ancestral combination, inappropriately using the ethnolinguistic label "Indo-European." Language cannot be determined by DNA, ancestral composition, or regional genetic continuity. He could easily perceive the flaw in his method if he tried to apply it to different cases—such as Estonians and Nganasans, who speak related languages but share virtually no autosomal ancestry. If he followed these genetic roots to the end, he would end up finding two contradictory origins for Indo-European.
>>18396606Hi. Are you familiar with the Genoarchivist forum? you are "jaska"?It's a bit more controlled than this one, and I think people are more open. Maybe it would be interesting for you to talk about your things there, and it seems there are some people from the prison there.
>>18397586>>18397578It has been proposed that Indo-European had ancestral contact or distant kinship, at least with the Uralic and some Caucasian language families. In "Nostratic" or "trans-Eurasian" models, many Eurasian language families are grouped as related, some also including Indo-European. However, in these comparisons, the criteria are so vague that the different results become mutually contradictory. Critical linguists are skeptical about the possibility of proving, beyond a shadow of a doubt, any distant kinship between language families.
>>18397608I've seen that forum in my search results. I have not posted there before.
>>18397624Oh yes, I thought you were one of the posters.
>In the first part of this study the name *Suparsthas is reconstructed and proposed for the ancestors of the peoples speaking the Proto-Indo-European language and their relatives. Moreover, the name *Swagwautas and its variants are recognised as endonyms of Proto-Indo-Europeans. By analyzing the ethnonyms of the descendant peoples and the historical attestations on them, traces of the customs and religion of *Suparsthas and *Swagwautas are highlighted. Lastly, the early migrations of the descendant peoples in Asia and Europe are reconstructed until the beginning of the second millennium BC.What do you think?
>>18397711A brief glance at the paper reveals it is full of ad hoc sound changes with no respect for sound laws. It's just nonsense.
>>18397736It was written by me
>>18397755Well, you kind suck
>>18397695I thought the same thing. This guy even writes like one of the autistic people there, but this Jaska guy dominated the discourse there. Someone has to stop him
>>18397786I m jaska.. you got me
>>18395049Proto-Indo-Iranian endonym *Aryas, Proto-Germanic *arjaz 'esteemed, distinguished', and Proto-Celtic *aryos 'free man, noble' is far from being evidence that this was a (P)IE endonym. If anything, it is much more likely that the meaning related to nobility/status is the original one given that it appears in the Celtic, Germanic, and Indic branches (arya in Sanskrit has the same meaning).
>>18398499*womp womp*>>18393731
>>18391462I don't need no stinkin' ethnonym when I can brrrr on my lurrrr
If I were descended from Romans, Germanics, Celts and Iberians, I think the last thing I would want to do is force a word or relation into being with Stinkheep Jeetsar or some other primordial CWC link. Persians are cool, their literature is kino but they have their own thing going on. The difference between East and West IE, or even CWC and Yamnaya, is that they are very different branches off an older tree. And if we are honest about the political implications, the American's struggle, the British man's struggle, the Frenchman's struggle is all too similar in who they are actually facing. Iran is in fact fighting their war for them. They are Aryans even now. Westoids are going to have to rescue their own title and it will have to be something that respects those distinctions, while respecting the actual legacy of the west. Which is more of a kikeslave golem right now to put it bluntly. You can't afford the legacy of another, nor parochialism at present. Honesty and bravery is all that's left. Just my two cents.
>>18396606>Proto-Arm */ari-min-/Isn't it funny that the name of Armenia and what Armenians are called is literally an old Aryan cognate?
>>18399037But isn't
I see you've talked about Germanic tribes and our supposed Aryan cognate in those thread I have access to the original texts, which I photographed at the museum, and from my research, we know a few things:distinction between the Germanic peoples Inguaeones (including Cimbri) and Erminones-Swabians, based on classical authors such as Pliny and Tacitus. The main points are: Inguaeones (Cimbri) are differentiated from Erminones (Swabians), with the former associated with the "near Ocean" (north of Jutland). Pliny and Tacitus separate Cimbri from Eudosi and Swabians, but there is confusion about the Germanic nationality of the Swabians, so who would know the answer? The Swabians are associated with the cult of... The main points are: 1. *Geographical distinction*: Inguaeones (Cimbri) are differentiated from Erminones (Swabians), with the former associated with the "near Ocean" (northern Jutland). 2. *Classical sources*: Pliny and Tacitus separate Cimbri from Eudosi and Swabians, but there is confusion about the Germanic nationality of the Swabians. 3. *Swabian identity*: The Swabians are associated with the cult of Nerthus (Mother Earth), a Germanic deity from northwest Elbe. 4. *Modern analysis*: The religious solidarity of the Swabians is linked to the Middle Ages, with mention of place names and genetic lineages (DNA) related to western England and
>>18399205>no lord indra cult>no Iranian cap>no horse cultureStop larping
>>18399207?
Since this thread is about "ethnonyms," I propose something that no one here has considered. "Geats" (or Gauts) derives from Proto-Germanic *Gautōz, sharing etymology and possibly meaning with *Gutōz ~ *Gutaniz, related to the verb "to pour" (Proto-Germanic *geutanan). The root gaut- is found in names like Göta älv, Götaland, and *Gaut (mythical ancestor of the Goths, Gapt for Jordanes). What does this mean? It means that I am beautiful, that the name of the Goths may refer to a "water god," with parallels such as the constellation Aquarius (Wætergyte in Anglo-Saxon, "water-ponder"). The ancestor Gapt (Gaut) may mean "he who gives," connecting to the provision of water as a source of life. Cope, or did my greatness show itself again?
>>18399288>It means that I am beautiful, that the name of the Goths may refer to a "water god,"Cope imo. I would think, to pour would mean to pour the seed, if this etymology is even correct. Because they were in fact the first group to practice sedentary agriculture so far out on the Steppe at least since GAC or the odd Greek colony. No one had really attempted at such a scale because they militarily couldn't. The Goths couldn't do it with the permanence they wished due to the Huns. I've never heard this about being beautiful or whatever. It sounds like a fake and gay cope.
>>18399310You lost
>>18399557That's what the raped always tell me. I'm always more Germanic, more pure than them.
>>18391473your delirious word comparisons are all over the place. medicate yourself.
>>18400053Refute it
>>18400225I can't
>>18391462German Ehre 'honour' comes from Aryan.
>>18395455stop using our language please
>>18401061No. Its erulaz
>>18401134sry but I DOUBT that based on vibes and aesthetics
>>18401278well, you're just wrong. plain and simple.etymology isn't based on muh feels
