So currently, China's GDP is 3x larger than the total GDP of Africa and India combined. Why didn't India become as rich as China considering post colonial China and India started around the same time (1949 vs 1947) and were abundant in land (half of China's land is actually desert) and people?In fact, China was in much worse shape than India in 1949>China had a warlord melee period that took place from 1911 to 1928>The civil war between the Chinese Nationalists and the Chinese Communist (1927–1949)>The large-scale massacres by the Japanese army in the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937–1945)Over the decades, many cities, its industrial base, transport hubs were bombed, occupied, or depopulated. Chongqing withstood more bombs than all of India saw bullets.Meanwhile India was spared the scale of physical devastation that China experienced from prolonged occupation and civil war. British colonialism in India left behind extensive railways, ports, and administrative systems. India had ~55,000 km of railway track by 1947.Right after China gained independence, China lost 200,000 men in the Korean war. It was also put on an embargo by two super powers for multiple decades, the US starting in 1950 and the USSR starting in 1961. India was never sanctioned by either the U.S. or the USSR in the way China was. After the early 1960s, the Soviet Union invested heavily into India. At the same time, India was still able to trade with the US, while also receiving food aid (notably under PL-480 programs)and development assistant and technology.
>>18394637(cont.)Yet, China by the 1970s had 4.6x more electricity generation, produced 3x more steel than India, 3.2x more coal production, 2.5x cement production (49 million metric tons vs 19.4 million metric tons), had longer life expectancy than India (66 vs 51 in 1978), had higher literacy rates (70% vs 35%)>Notably in 1981, the World Bank contrasted China’s life expectancy of 66 years to India’s 51 years. Chinese citizens, the report stated, were better fed than their Indian counterparts.https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/892681468215689422/pdf/multi0page.pdfSo even before China liberalized its markets, it still surpassed India in all social indicators.
>>18394640(cont.)Some people say that since China liberalized its markets a decade earlier than India, and it has an authoritarian government, it grew economically wealthier.But simply liberalizing your markets doesn't guarantee success. There were many governments in the global South, both democratic and non democratic that liberalized their markets and never became successful as China or they even stayed poor. In fact, many countries in parts of Latin America, Sub-Saharan Arica and some post-Soviet economies didn't experience any sustained growth or industrialization after liberalizing their economy.Russia who liberalized their markets much more rapidly than China in the 1990s experienced a major decline in quality of life and GDP.Compared to India, China also liberalized their markets very gradually. By 1987, China still only had for special economic zones in the cities of Shenzehn, Zhuai, Shantou, and Xiamen. These were cities to experiment with market oriented reforms. By 1991, they had five with the addition of island of Hainan island, but they also had had massive setbacks with the Western reaction to Tiananmen Square.On the other hand, in 1991, India had nationwide reforms that were comprehensive and applied to the entire economy all at once. This meant deregulating industries, reducing import tariffs, dismantling the license Raj, and they promoted competition across all sectors and regions. These were sweeping liberal reforms. And China's GDP only really started exponentially rising after joining the WTO in 2001. However, India joined the WTO and still did not have the same comparable success that China had after joining. In fact, China accepted significantly harsher and more extensive obligations and restrictions when it joined the WTO than India did.
>>18394644India joined the WTO in 1995*
purely materialistic factors
>>18394637I've been to China it's pretty poor. GRANTED it's cleaner then Indian. In China it's common to see rundown grimy everything (if it's not brand new) old industrial sinks and fridges clogging back roads & piles of rusted junk, grout in every crack, I've even seen stains on walls (inside buildings) where somone spilled coffee and no one cleaned it up the entire time I was there.>inb4 pic of manicured downtown area. They clean the downtown/rich areas and the main roads, and the rest of nation just rots. Ameria is kind of the opposite: the downtown areas/main roads are cesspits but the suburbs are nice.
>>18394677These are 1-3 hours uncut driving videos around entire cities in China, not just the downtown area. They look good to me.https://youtu.be/_8WCiRW0vZw?t=504https://youtu.be/u_k_I6VaN34?t=4018https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mblWnsP57pAhttps://youtu.be/KBclVVJFnS0?t=162https://youtu.be/08o4trrTODI?t=833https://youtu.be/H8xtmrjHSbY?t=297https://youtu.be/2errqQ4NAHM?t=138https://youtu.be/MIUD-FE8rco?t=1567https://youtu.be/Boh66Pjjiq0?t=663https://youtu.be/FE0pKlskeGc?t=2557https://youtu.be/ExgXvUyACzA?t=428https://youtu.be/hap2acZ_PWE?t=517https://youtu.be/GjpOH3xZQqQ?t=1428https://youtu.be/KQTKhN1qus8?t=2657https://youtu.be/8T044v8EG5E?t=3451https://youtu.be/_RfkEL4JMvE?t=1586https://youtu.be/LFzv3Fv7CIk?t=1944https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1GI09vukAkhttps://youtu.be/c_E3iU6c6Ig?t=114https://youtu.be/80N-ShwGTQU?t=523https://youtu.be/4b2Y4WN3frY?t=774https://youtu.be/HUbKO1cACLE?t=248https://youtu.be/jiA4PDQsSAo?t=3158https://youtu.be/-seijTcJBsY?t=2071https://youtu.be/wkpZ7zcYjz8?t=177https://youtu.be/fQ-skALArmI?t=4252https://youtu.be/CZ4QGHTYloM?t=683https://youtu.be/_LZqqgWlK8Y?t=2069https://youtu.be/v2mU_-ngq94?t=6450https://youtu.be/XC9iWZIbZXA?t=951https://youtu.be/OQx4S7fJJfQ?t=2987https://youtu.be/uiYkDWeWwxw?t=640https://youtu.be/6RkpP_cCM8Q?t=271https://youtu.be/2Wu7M2u9ems?t=1285https://youtu.be/nAQbJ0Rf9QI?t=2738https://youtu.be/FZpWNwWtPpk?t=1275https://youtu.be/BvL1Hf2gD-g?t=568https://youtu.be/-vwgdBFZTDA?t=1https://youtu.be/2nuBB67gMos?t=2330https://youtu.be/B5zSe0nSeLM?t=2087https://youtu.be/mf16zD5OhzI?t=1225https://youtu.be/eDgNu3SpFgM?t=626https://youtu.be/cY2n5zgk_Rw?t=1013https://youtu.be/66B2lGOTNxI?t=1https://youtu.be/6yMwniU4KUI?t=612https://youtu.be/ddfN9m8N09I?t=1https://youtu.be/Ell7cwGPjc0?t=2473https://youtu.be/AL8XjbBgTckhttps://youtu.be/GDjLkQRo4TA
>>18394637100 vs 85/75 average IQ.
>>18394677Also, I agree with you that China is still poorer compared to the US, but why is it much richer than India? Compare their per capita in terms of subway lines
>>18394677you're a stupid fucking Tanya tranny KYS
>>18394637India followed the soviet model for much longer and ended up with an oligarch problem similar to ex-warsaw pact countries.
>>18394694Except, Deng never liberalized China's superstructure. He kept the Leninist state struture in tact. He didn't liberalize Mao's land reform. Market liberalization were introduced very gradually and Deng use SEZs to strictly monitor capital FDI inflows. Even today, almost of all the largest twenty companies in mainland China are all state-owned. The commanding heights of the economy is still monopolized by the state like banking, oil, telecoms, steel, chemicals, rail, utilities, the news media, ship building, etc.
>>18394683>post only main roadslike I said: "They clean the downtown/rich areas and the main roads", Here's what China (NOT the main roads/downtown) looks like:https://youtu.be/eDJjLj9VRPQ?si=NESGUigaLX3LgfZUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lof0UK0gm4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccka9Ey3OHohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKcmrAzdjjY&t=198shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxHvkv_z-u0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGnJ9w4uErQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdJ3yavG87ohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCd6_YmXMOAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkDzy4TPUcMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54bhRVtTJhohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYvPV2NeqO4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFn6OoYse8khttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=752QdF7hwTYetc. you get the point, Most of China looks similar to Vietam or S. America, it has that "3rd world look" (you know what I'm talking if you've seen it).>>18394688>Also, I agree with you that China is still poorer compared to the US, but why is it much richer than India? Compare their per capita in terms of subway linesIndia made poor choices.1)India is not resource independant2)China is relativilly more meriticratic, India is extremely class based and nepotisitc (china is too, but like 25% as bad)3)China has a long history of efficent bureorcay, India does not.4)China has long history of mass organizing it population, India does not.5)India didn't industrialize and jump the gun into tech services6)AI and robotics is making India obsolete before it gets started.Basically India has ONE advantage over China, its birth rate, meaning India could (and probably will) flood China with immigrants when the CCP gets desprate due to economic issues caused by low birth rates.
>>18394713Looks fine. Comfy. I wish I was born into a nation with hope for the future like China.
>>18394713most of those videos is from a dude farming youtube money by wakling around an old part of chongqing that will be demoished one daybut like i said, china is still not as rich as western countries, but that wasn't the topic. it was vs india because the comparison makes more sense historically as they gained independence at the same time with similar levels of destitutechina rural areas still mogs the fuck out of indiahttps://youtu.be/X5pCftAGT9w?t=277https://youtu.be/67B78_Z3cD4?t=1539https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp1oh0R8Ru8https://youtu.be/nzNQ1DATr10?t=684https://youtu.be/VRLGShp8dhc?t=318https://youtu.be/1FRZjY0oTaM?t=435https://youtu.be/rj2GFvG3F1k?t=370https://youtu.be/SMxUwp_oKoQ?t=249https://youtu.be/YibV0PltnQY?t=48https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi7-ZguebjUhttps://youtu.be/6lutrDngpg0?t=6https://youtu.be/hITIMNfDfYc?t=328https://youtu.be/0lt1HzIld50?t=765https://youtu.be/Nr1W7h1j99w?t=880
Neither have a particularly efficient economy. China's economic output is poor relative to its population. It's far wealthier than India is simply because Indians are retarded but the bar is on the floor
>>18394715>I wish I was born into a nation with hope for the future like China.Chinas been in a defacto recession since 2020. That's six years, China peaked in the 2010s and basically flatlined since.>inb4 muh GPD numbersThey literally count traffic and empty buildings as part of their GDP.>inb4 muh exportsThey mostly dump overstock on SEA due to western investors pushing borrowed (printed money) into the region. One mild recession and that well dries up.China has a catstrophic demographic crisis (picrel), retarded capital controls and state owned firms with 600% debt to gdp, so they needlessly back themselves into a corner. Chinas ONLY options are: conquer other nations &/or bring in tons of immigrants.
>>18394684That's not how IQ works anon.
>>18394762That is how it works, anon. 100 is called the Greenwhich mean, i.e. the British mean. When one refers to the Indians as having an 85 average IQ, it is meant in reference to NW Europeans.
>>18394760Oh, you're a Zeihantard.
>>18394770>he's wrong because cherrypicked sales of electric vehicles you are an unserious person
>>18394765Agian you are trying to use IQ as a powerless metric. Also no mass comprehensive trading has been done at a global level so any attempt at using scores to compare states is innately retarded.
>>18394760Exports are bad now? Holy shit this board is ass.
>>18394780Word salad that means nothing. Just go back to >>>/r/eddit
>>18394782NTA but it's naive to think all exports are created equal
>>18394783>Word salad that means nothingJust admit that you treat IQ like a DBZ powerlevel.
>>18394765>100 is called the Greenwhich mean, i.e. the British meanNo, 100 is the mean for a sample in question. It's not pegged to Britain or NW Europeans.
>>18394777>cherrypickedthe car industry is the pillar industry for many industrialized nations. just 5-6 years ago they were only exporting 1 million vehicles a year. last year they exported 7 million cars, making them the number 1 car exporter in the world. that's insane growth.you want another stat? over half of global electricity demand growth came from china last year. china is industrializing faster than all other countries combined
>>18394825
>>18394825another reason why i brought up cars is because it signals they are no longer just exporting just toys and clothes. their manufacturing base is upgrading and they are now directly competing with countries like japan and germany. economists call this china shock 2.0.here's another example. picrel is a tunnel boring machine (TBM). in 1997, china wasn't exporting any TBMs. today, china is exporting TBMs and has gradually gained 70% share of the international market. this is happening rapidly throughout various sector from consumer drones to CNC machines
>>18394637India was fully colonizedand is currently led by fascist who are notoriously bad at economics while China was only partially colonized and is currently led by programmatic Marxists that understood the need for markets but doesn't allow capitalist to run amok like post Soviet Russia and hasn't abandoned economic planing
>>18394637According to Aperahamists, Africa is more Christian than China, and since Aperahamism was responsible for the first scientific revolution in Europe, we should have already had or be undergoing a second scientific revolution in Africa while China regresses into destitute poverty.Yet the opposite is happening.
Indian Hindu fanatics and casteism are the main problem.
>>18394637
>>18394637China had Communism and India didn't end of story. Any other difference is downwind of that.
jeets are not human. Neither are chinks but at least they're a little less non-human
Implessive!
Chairman Xi is busy firing/executing everyone in the Chinese Military Industrial Complex right now for corruption and false claims about their new stealth fighter program. Yang Wei was recently found dead and was quietly scrubbed from the Chinese Academy of Sciences website. Commies cannot be trusted
>>18394724Imagine being a train fan for thinking that it's a valuable and efficient means of transportation nowadays. There is ONE use case where this technology is worth it and that is to allow for rapid military mobilization.
>>18398238HSR networks are useful in many circumstances but I think people often mischaracterize their importance
>>18394637The chinese are more intelligent than Indians.it's funny to see the cope in this thread that there are deeper reasons to it.
>>18398245Dumbasses ike you is the reason why China managed to fool the West into believing that they were going to liberalise their economy.India produced more clothes than Europe and of superior quality for centuries
>>18394637High IQ
>>18398394Then why was India more productive than China in the 18th century?
>>18398402You mean India under the British Raj? I think is self-explanatory
>>18394637I wish Chinese people believed this crap so that they would all go home.
>>18398413Nope. It's globo world now>>18398238>Imagine being a train fan for thinking that it's a valuable and efficient means of transportation nowadaysWell yeah. Tram and train transit are super important.
>>18398245>The chinese are more intelligent than IndiansLmao no one gives a shit about intelligence. Education is much more prolific and isn't tied behind shitty prestige/wealth gates.
>>18398410The British Raj is 19th century and I'm referring to the Mughal period.
>>18398402>>18398440it wasn't
10000s of Indians are crushed by trains every year, it's insane. I can't help but be reminded of our distant cousins who adventured east instead of west and also crushed Indians beneath the wheels of their elegant spoked wheel chariots. I only mourn that they could not maintain the one drop rule over millennia since then nearly all those Indians suffering horrifyingly painful deaths would not need to get crushed or lebt ein lebensunwerten lebens, instead they would be white, high IQ and able to develop their economy instead of living in these awful conditions.post related >>18398429just as the train multi-track drifts into a crowd of indians shitting on its tracks, so too shall I multi-thread post, as mememagic poetry so that you mark my words well
>>18398443Colours refer to the auras not the pigment of the skin
>>18398391is this just some jealousy that China was able to take advantage of its low wages to become the factory of the world while India wasn't?should've been smarter.
>>18396727>Indian Hindu fanatics and casteism are the main problem.Third-world, post-colonial countries have a problem with nationalism where what was once an ideological vehicle to assert their independence gets turned around and becomes an obstacle to solving problems because you can just get easily triggered / act like a snowflake while screaming that eating dung patties and drinking cow urine is good for your health because that's traditional and if you think otherwise you're an anti-national white worshipper. The mindset rooted in casteism is also that a lot of basic problems like picking up trash or removing dead animals rotting in the open is someone else's job, which basically means the concept of being responsible for cleaning up after yourself is alien to Indians. Chinese people aren't much different and they do litter a lot but the difference is that in China it actually *is* someone else's job to clean it up. China is just more organized in terms of command and control of their citizens. There's still a big difference between the main cities and other places, but when government inspectors come through the subway station later, if they get negative reviews, the person in charge is fired / replaced. Also, and not to glorify the Chinese state, but it really is an authoritarian atheist state that will put a highway through your favorite mosque or temple and any protests will be dealt with by censoring the protests and then forcibly removing them. The homeless and beggars are systematically removed from the main cities and sent packing back to rural villages. Also they have internal population movement controls. They liquidate stray dogs rather than letting millions of rabies-infected dogs roam around shitting on the place and biting people. And so on. Also look at zero COVID, people have to stay in line making sure the government (or the party) runs the country: https://youtu.be/aaqDLuERhWA
>>18398443India is so fucking overcrowded it's insane that only a couple of tens of thousands get crushed by trains every year. Fortunately, Indian Railways are building more footbridges and are working on this new public awareness campaign, so maybe the deaths can stop.
>>18394637Communism promotes work ethic and collectivism which makes people work towards a common good rather than individual greed which leads to misery for many others. And also indians are low iq and with an inferior culture so theres that too
>>18398818>indians are low iqMost of East Asia was low IQ anon. IQ isn't really set in stone.>with an inferior cultureNo one really cares about culture though as determining factor. Ever since people realized commentators and analysis always pivot their opinions so they are never "wrong". Basically team switching on a dime.
>>18398462>India wasn't?But India does do a ton of manufacturing. They're huge in medical manufacturing due to them producing a ton of the world's generics and medicine precursors.
>>18398839East Asians are much more intelligent on average than Indians. Intelligence is very well set, and genetic. Like everything else unless you think it's some magical property that spawns from the ether.
>>18394788It isn't the 1990s anymore when China only produced plastic crap, they produce more cars and ships than any other country.
>>18398884>East Asians are much more intelligent on average than Indians.East Asians and Indians arent monolith. Also you hinge your whole argument off the supposed 104/105 IQ of EAs despite the fact that such a score isn't even one 1 SD above the mean. Hell having an i5 doesnt even mean you are mentally deficient or fucked in the head since many developed states back in the day would score in that range if we were to use modern day averages.>Intelligence is very well set, and geneticLol it's extremely complex, nor is it remotely close to being solely genetic or guaranteed.
>>18394713Watched the last video. That's absolutely not a slum. I would rather live there than in any black hood in America or a favela in Brazil.
>>18398930>I would rather live there than in any black hood in America or a favela in Brazil.Most "hoods" are pretty quaint now outside of certain ones in certain cities. Also to the guy who made the vid and other Chinese it is a slum.
>>18398441Mughal India was definitely more productive than Qing China
>>18398240>PicThat's the shitty part about mega cities. If it's sprawling out to the horizon it takes an eternity to go to places you need to be. Polycentric development is the way to go.
>>18394637I think if india had authoritative goverment after independence that focused on industrialisation things would have been way better by now. You can't expect retards to self rule because the elites are just gonna end up corrupt and exploit these retards. Also india has too much stuff going on at all of their borders. You have no idea the welfare stuff that goes on for the dalits and 1000s of backwards castes. >>18396727For 65 years there was a socialist regime that enforced cutting edge secularism. The hindu right wing is in power since 2014 and honestly they are the only ones who addressed street shitting issue and took action.
>>18398413I dunno, it's kinda cute how they have so many psychotic ultranationalist diasporoids that would choose death over being deported back there
>>18399708That applies ten fold to jeets
China had a Communist Cultural Revolution that beat superstitious mass idiocy out of most of the 70IQ peasantry and collectively rose their IQ 35 pointsIndia has a Nationalist Government that literally reinforces mass superstition, caste bullshit and other Hindu supremacist knowledge and much of India's IQ still sits around 70Same reason Blacks have degenerated in the US. Haven't had their shitty 70IQ culture beat out of them like what happened to Irish and scots settlers.
>>18399699SAAAAAAR
>>18394637>>The large-scale massacres by the Japanese army in the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937–1945)Anti-Japanese propaganda. Large scale massacres were carried out by the Chinese, not the Japanese. Chinese soldiers committed the Tongzhou Massace. Chiang Kai Shek killed half a million Chinese (and made 1 million refugees) with the 1938 Yellow River Flooding. Chinese army publicly executed so called traitors ("Hanjian") without trial. It was the Chinese who mass killed their own people and blamed it on the Japanese.
>>18394637Maybe because state-capitalism is just superior than informal crony capitalism, India doesn't even do capitalism correctly. Not to mention that a decent chunk of its population is still on each others throat regarding caste(an outdated and disgusting system that wouldn't work in the modern day) and religion.
The culture and people are very different. They might as well be polar opposites. Indians are on average extremely individualistic. The concept of doing something for the common good doesn't really exist there. Everything is based around the notion of advancing your own self-interests at any cost. Society becomes a one giant zero sum game, if not a negative sum game outright.
>>18399699Narendra Modi is possibly one of the best leaders India has seen ever. I believe the main reason for Jawaharlal Nehru choosing to lean towards socialism was because India had and still has extremely low industrial capacity. What many people fail to realize is that there are plenty of succesful authoritarian states. Think of Myanmar, North Korea, Singapore under Lee Kuan Yew, even South Korea under martial law. If India followed this trend, it might rival China in the near future.
While India has been a democracy and open to world trade since its inception, it wasn't until the early 90s that they liberalized the economy whereas China began in the late 70s.Also China had a better environment for industrialization, it is closer to markets like Japan, South Korea and the US, it obtained Hong Kong, it could easily foment centers of commerce and high tech industry like Shanghai by following the example of the Asian tigers then attempt to replicate this throughout the rest of the country. China is also 3 times larger than India with good access to natural resources, though this is of marginal benefit since like the Asian tigers they can import what they need and often the benefits of efficient manufacturing outweigh the slightly increased cost of raw materials and freight. China's authoritarian regime may also allow them to impose unpopular changes on the economy, but again this is of marginal benefit since effective administration is a task in itself which a heavy handed authoritarian state doesn't excel at.While liberalization has helped both countries, there are limits to how sophisticated an economy can get, like national IQ, which is where India is now falling short. One might speculate that it is due to China having a huge population and more than a decade headstart, snapping up the global economy's demand for labor before India could get in on it, but as China shifts towards a tertiary sector economy you'd expect the demand for Indian labor to increase, yet India's growth has not matched China's even accounting for the headstart. Unfortunately India may have to accept it is permanently defective until modern science and genetics finds a solution to this controversial issue.
