What is fascism?https://youtu.be/mMCVH1Def-E
Fascism is when lefties realize Hitler was right about the Epstein class.
>>18397549Whatever the Italians did in the 20s and 30s
>>18397549It's not retarded e-celeb twitch streamers.
>>18397549BUY AN AD YOU FAGGOT!
>>18397549>breadtube slopNo thanks.
>>18397549Man, I know that Hitler was considered to be a crazy lolcow before 1929 but I just can't imagine a totalitarian nazi state ruled by Funtes and Asmongold
>>18397549I ain't clicking that shit nigga
>>18397549>fascism is when you support the mass immigration because they dont like jews anymoreYou know what, Hitler might have actually been like that too
>YOU DON'T LIKE TROONIFICATION AND THINK IT'S CANCER, YOU DON'T LIKE ME SHOVING HOMOSEX EVERYWHERE IN ALL FABRICS AND FORMS LIKE CHILDREN'S BOOKS AND MEDIA, AND YOU LIKE HARD WORK AND DON'T WANT TO SIMPLY TAKE MONEY WHENEVER WE WANT FROM THE RICH, THEREFORE YOU ARE LITERALLY HITLER!!Basically what fascism is in the modern day. It doesn't even have a meaning anymore, just like cuck just means anything involving extramarital affairs instead of the kink/pleasure act.
>>18397549Based Epstein creating /pol/ overnight and creating epicenter for free speech & hating Israel, trannies and non-whites
>>18397549It's when you take revolutionary nationalist concepts about building a new order and creating a "new man" but instead of grounding it in liberalism or Marxist materialism you go with right-wing spiritualism about will and destiny and stuff like that and a hierarchy / leadership principle more or less based on the military and a future-forward great power ethos. Then you create what now sounds like a retro sci-fi Heinlein novel with people going around calling each other Federal Secretary (that was an actual rank in the Italian fascist party) or member of the Federal Directorate who create new ministries with names like MinCulPop (really):https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Popular_CultureAlso:https://youtu.be/nSQ5EsbT4cE
>>18397549>>18397760Ironically I went down the alt-right pipeline because I watched a breadtube video that said Alex Jones ranting about Globalists was secretly a dog whistle about the Jews.
>>18397817Defining fascism as a personality type rather than an actual political doctrine ruined any serious discussion.
Fascism is a post-colonial phenomenon where European countries hold onto their wealth, genetics and power instead of redistributing them to the Global South.Fascism isn't some noncontextual checklist of political elements (authoritarianism, irredentism, etc.) because that would include many subaltern political systems whom nobody actually considers fascist (Xi, Saddam, etc.)
>>18397549>What is fascism?For the only half-serious answer here, it's the idea that all members of the same nation share a common existence and a state of interdependence, and as such that the state is simply the reflection of this and organically emerges from this body of people. Desu it's simply a more radical and socially grounded vision of the rousseau/republican social contract that originated from Gentile's works.This is also why fascists are always sovereignist and ultranationalist, but are often more economically left-wing. The issue too with fascism is that there's no consensus on who "the people" actually are. This is why Hitler was a race fascist and Mussolini more of a civic fascist if that makes sense.
Not gonna lie, the way Fredda talks about Whatifalthis makes you think he is some 4d chess little finger like figure who has massive influence in the real world, even though Fredda pretty much won his online drama with him.Also surprised he didn't mention the manosphere, I mean I don't think it's fascist but leftists tend to lump everything they don't like as being interconnected.
>>18398510Manosphere was more fascist-coded in like 2015 when it mostly involved white men. Now it's just brown men so it's not really fascist
>>18398022Don't tell me the video actually says that
>>18398181Mussolini wanted to conquer Ethiopia
>>18398737Yes he wanted to make Italy a colonial superpower. Germany, Italy and Japan all felt they were cucked out of having their own colonies, which was the main rationale for the Tripartite Pact
>>18397549>What is fascism?The people who invented fascism wrote books explaining what it is.
>>18398813You should never EVER read fascist literature.Because you just shouldn't OKAY?
>>18398813The problem is that this only explains Italian Fascism, but not the numerous other Fascist movements, for example, all the ones who participated in this conference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1934_Montreux_Fascist_conferenceMost of these groups differed in many ways from the Italian Fascist party but identified with the label Fascist, and some of them argued that the Nazis (who weren't present) are alos Fascists. So Fascism is clearly more then just what's written in this book, it's a bunch of movements and ideologies with some common ground, and what it is is up for debate.Personally, I find the Palingenetic ultranationalism definition to be pretty good, although I would also add the term post-democratic too. Successful Fascist movements always emerged in democracies in crisis. There are a lot of other nationalistic and authoritarian regimes, like Saddam Hussein's Iraq, or Suharto's in Indonesia, but it doesn't really feel right to call these Fascist, because the term implies the subversion of democracy into authoritarianism.
>>18397549Fascism: a somewhat syncretic but mostly right wing system of politics“Fascism”: what a communist calls whatever isn’t communist (or communist enough) for them.
>>18397549TIK did a better video a long time ago.
>>18398813that cover art is awful, wtf is that whacky font
Fascism derives from veneration of the Black Phallus, reflecting societal submission to patriarchal oversight of the Elite that intend to dictate your affairs
>>18399585most jewish post I've seen in a minute
>>18397549>assmongoloid is... le fascist!kek'd
>>18397549Fascism is Capitalism in crisis. where in the face of imminent or ongoing popular unrest from the proletariat due to deteriorating conditions and the falling rate of profit, the Bourgeois cancel any form of democracy that might give the people a say, and empower the most violent psychopaths they can find to ruthlessly crush labor under heel in order to safeguard capital.
>>18399604How is the stinky asmonroach not a fascist?
>>18397549Here you go OP, pic related explains what Fascism is. If, however, you mean 'TOTALLY FASHESM OMG!', as in the modern meaning of the phrase, then it doesn't mean anything other than "I disagree with/dislike/hate the person I'm describing". Just like back in the 1950's when people described everything they didn't like as 'Communism!'.
Fascism is just another word for National-Collectivism.In order for something to be fascist it must meet all 3 criterias:1. Revolutionary nationalism2. Authoritarianism3. CollectivismPretty much every single fascist 'founding father' was a syndicalist for this reason (Gentile, Antonio De Rivera, Mosley, Mussolini etc)It's about state over individual. The state organize the individual. The state organize the economy.The individual associate itself with the state and finds identity with the state.This is why fascism vehemently oppose capitalism, because capitalism empowers the individual with conflicting interests over any collectiv interest of the state and the popular mass..Likewise fascism vehemently oppose socialism because it sees class struggle as dividing. Fascism is perfectly fine with hierarchy as long as everyone surrenders their interests to the state. This is also why antisemtiism and race is not even mentioned in any fascist manifesto. Fascist reject the idea of race since your (and the rest of the collective mass) only identity should be the state.Fascism has far more in common with the 'left' political spectrum for this reason, since the 'left-right' modern political spectrum is basically about how much influence and control the state should have over politics, economics, society and the individual.The only reason fascism is placed on the 'right' is because of its hyper-nationalist aspect, which is based on the old idea from the French revolution where 'left-right policial spectrum was decided on whether you were a nationalist or a cosmopolitan. It's impractical today since even the most communist socialist state often finds itself becoming extremely nationalistic and militant.
>>18399075I've always found Estado Novo, Irish Blueshirts, Falange, Iron Guard, Rexists, Austrofash and Action Française to be more TTraditionalist/Reactionary than proper Fascist. They claim their legitimacy from God and Christianity rather than the nation or the will to power.
Has anyone read Sternhell? Is it good?Does he editorialize/moralize often or is it pretty objective and clinical?
>>18400334Fascism still allows for capitalism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circulation_of_eliteshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchyhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorelianism
>>18400355No it doesnt. It opposes capitalism.You cant have capitalism with a state that controls the market, controls the trade, controls the division of labour, controls the economy, and basically controls the individual. It goes completely against everything that is capitalism.Capitalism means unregulated competition which is considered to be dividing and fragmenting the collective interrest of the state.It's literally written by the ideological founders:>10. We repudiate the capitalistic system which shows no understanding of the needs of the people, dehumanizes private property, and causes workers to be lumped together in a shapeless, miserable mass of people who are filled with desperation. Our spiritual and national conception of life also repudiates Marxism. We shall redirect the impetuousness of those working classes who today are led astray by Marxism, and we shall seek to bring them into direct participation in fulfilling the great task of the national state. Fascism is all about unity under the state. Capitalism divides (individual interest), as does socialism (class struggle).
>>18400355Only on the behalf of the state and on its terms.
>>18400379Yes, in other words CorporatismWhich is closer to Syndicalism than Capitalism.People who insist that fascism is capitalism are just bots at this point. Collectivism is the polar opposite of capitalism.
>>18400355So does communism.
>>18400379>>18400387Then I guess America has always been commie nazis.>>18400397Socialism yeah. Communism no.
>>18400370>controls the marketThere are markets and private property under fascism. It's a regulated mixed economy with economic protectionism. It's not free-market capitalism, but it's still capitalism and it's dishonest to try and argue otherwise.
>>18400397Most communist states turn into fascist states.Communism in theory seeks to abolish state, abolish class, abolish kapital etc.In practice however, the communist state turns into a hyper-statist authoritarian militaristic nationalist single-party ruling elite over the collective mass.The real divider between fascism and communism in practice is that communism still pursue egalitarianism, while fascism promotes certain hierarchy. Many fascist movements had a major focus on protecting the privileges of especially the clergy from socialists.
>>18400387That's not what corporatism means. Corporatism was the Fascist version of Syndicalism. I hate Michael Parenti so much.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Syndical_Organizationhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_Corporationhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_syndicalism
>>18400370From britannica.>fascist regimes (in particular Nazi Germany) used terror for different purposes and against different groups than did the Soviets and that fascists, unlike communists, generally supported capitalism and defended the interests of economic elites>fascists, unlike communists, generally supported capitalism
>>18400402>Then I guess America has always been commie nazisThe 3 pillars of fascism is revolutionary nationalism, authoritarianism and collectivism.America has none of these. America is the complete opposite to these. America is democratic and capitalist.
>>18400408That's not what communism or fascism means. That is the worker's vanguard dictatorship which leads for an indefinite period between the revolution and the "withering away of the state". Anarchism are just communists that don't believe in the dictatorship of the proletariat.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletariathttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withering_away_of_the_state
>>18400413You can be democratic and capitalist and fascist.
>>18400413>America is democraticLet me laugh harder.>capitalistNot in the truest sense. It's a mixed economy. No country can be truly capitalist.
>>18400415LMAO
>>18400416Mixed economies are a type of capitalist economy. "Truly capitalist" doesn't fucking mean anything. A capitalist economy is any economy that's not communist or state socialist.
>>18400418You mean like what >>18400403 said?
>>18400418Yeah and I think your definition of capitalism can he used to define fascism too, that's gonna make it as precise as possible.
>>18400417Fascist is meritocratic, aristocratic democracy. It's not a plebeian or majority democracy, but the relevant members of society do participate in the decision making process.
>>18400411>fascist regimes (in particular Nazi Germany) Already failed there because Nazi Germany was National-Socialist.If you're going to debate fascism, at least use fascist states / movements / ideological writers as your basis of argument.>generally supported capitalism and defended the interests of economic elitesFirst of all, it's in their own manifesto that they dont support capitalism.Second, it's already been clarified by me that fascists were corporatists/syndicalists, which means private property was tolerated as long as it was organized for the interest of the state.
>>18400420That was also meLaissez-faire capitalism =/= all capitalismMost capitalism in the world takes place i in highly regulated mixed-economies and pretty much always has. The liberal America model, which is itself regulated and mixed, is highly unusual.
>>18400424>Fascist is meritocratic, aristocratic democracyFascism does not allow for democracy. They are quite explicit that the state should be governed by an authoritarian leader. Take your meds. Want me to link their manifesto?> It's not a plebeian or majority democracyA democracy is a democracy.You have an election where every person has an equal vote with two or more parties/candidates participate and arent hindered by any social or legal fundemental barriers.It's the freedom of press, division of judical and legislative system etc. The list goes on. Fascism has NONE of this.
>>18400425The National-Socialists identified as part of the wider Fascist movement. They considered themselves a divergent idiosyncratic version. Read Fascism from the Right and National-Socialism from the Right by Evola.https://juliusevola.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/9-fascism-viewed-from-the-right.pdfhttps://pdfcoffee.com/julius-evola-notes-on-the-third-reich-pdf-free.html
>>18400416>America is democratic>Let me laugh harder.How is it not democratic?>No country can be truly capitalist.It's capitalist enough to be no where near collectivist.
>>18400425>Already failed there because Nazi Germany was National-Socialist.>If you're going to debate fascism, at least use fascist states / movements / ideological writers as your basis of argument.>use what they said, not what they didWhy, they are well known opportunists.>is the fascists’ well-known opportunism—i.e., their willingness to make changes in official party positions in order to win elections or consolidate power
>>18400434Ancient Athens was democratic. The SPQX was democratic. The Chinese Communist Party is democratic. The Islamic Republic of Iran has a democratic majles. All societies have some degree of democracy within them with elective representative bodies that convey the feelings and opinions of different segments of the population. Democracy is a sliding scale. It's not either/or.
>>18400435>The National-Socialists identified as part of the wider Fascist movement. Still not fascism.I dont know why its hard for you to debate fascism by using fascist state / fascist movements.Instead your entire argument rests on using National-Socialism.If I debate general socialism then I cant use Communist Stalinism as my fundemental framework. Moron.
>>18400438>How is it not democratic?A myriad of reasons.The electoral college alone is a big one.
>>18400442*SPQR
>>18400443The USSR is the best example of the dictatorship of the proletariat in action that we have. I don't see anything wrong with that example.
>>18400439>Why, they are well known opportunists.Because this frame of referfence is completely worthless.Democratic socialist states like Sweden had a racial hygene institution. Does that automatically mean that racial hygene insitutions are a natural part of democratic socialism? No it doesnt. You look at what the ideology say in its core and not anecdotes to define an ideology.
>>18400438>>18400444Anyway, we're getting nowhere in this debate. I think >>18400408 put it best here:>The real divider between fascism and communism in practice is that communism still pursue egalitarianism, while fascism promotes certain hierarchy
>>18400450What about communism then?
>>18400450>>18400455Or socialism for that matter?
>>18400442>Ancient Athens was democratic.No it wasnt. It excluded the majority of the population from voting and the system was not based on Montesquieu principles of seperation of power which is absolutely fundemental for a real democracy. >The Chinese Communist Party is democraticSure hun.Is that why 95% of all court cases leads to conviction? Is that why the state owns the media? Is that why there is only one party to vote for during elections and all others are surpressed?Did you drop out of school when you were 5 years old? Get the fuck outa here. Im done with you. Keep seething that Fascism isnt right wing like you've been programmed to believe.
>>18400450That also means that racial hygiene is not incompatibile with democratic socialism. You can have have democratic national socialism which I think is what the people have always really wanted.
>>18400450>>18400465That's because democratic socialism is about economics, not egalitarianism.
>>18397549A bunch of Italy and later Germany aligned dictatorships that arose in the interwar era and lasted till the end of ww2. Their ideology was just justifying despotism over democracy with whatever opportunistic memes they can throw in, and socialists didn't exactly help since in these democracies there was a fear people would vote in a government like that seen in the Soviet Union, as opposed to voting for moderate social conservatives who wouldn't tear the country up in "revolution".>>18398181>we poor because colonialism 60 years ago, o algosouth korea went from being japan's cuck to america's cuck then had commies sweep through only to develop their economy in ~30 years>south korea had american funding, o algo<you are poor because you are worthless, but you can't admit to that and simply appeal to morality, to help those less able to obtain the level of wealth seen in white western countries and the east asian tigers, so you dredge up colonialism from decades or centuries ago in the case of south americaYou. Are. Not. Oppressed.
>>18400464>democracy is what Montesquieu says it is>The term democracy first appeared in ancient Greek political and philosophical thought in the city-state of Athens during classical antiquity. The word comes from dêmos '(common) people' and krátos 'force/might'. Under Cleisthenes, what is generally held as the first example of a type of democracy in the sixth-century BC (508–507 BC) was established in Athens. Cleisthenes is referred to as "the father of Athenian democracy". The first attested use of the word democracy is found in prose works of the 430s BC, such as Herodotus' Histories, but its usage was older by several decades, as two Athenians born in the 470s were named Democrates, a new political name—likely in support of democracy—given at a time of debates over constitutional issues in Athens. Aeschylus also strongly alludes to the word in his play The Suppliants, staged in c.463 BC, where he mentions "the demos's ruling hand" [demou kratousa cheir]. Before that time, the word used to define the new political system of Cleisthenes was probably isonomia, meaning political equality.>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DemocracyIf Athens wasn't democratic, nothing is. Democracy doesn't mean rule by everybody. Democracy means rule by the enfranchised.
>>18400453It was literally me who wrote that post.You're quoting me and reference my own post to prove that I am wrong? lol you're schizophrenic.
>>18398086why would you ever take that wailing hysterical retard seriously
>>18400479>If Athens wasn't democratic, nothing is.Then you are a fucking retard if you think excluding the majoirty of the population from voting, and virtually the entire population from basic democratic rights that involved everything besides voting, and the entire political structure.Using the ancient greeks as your frame of reference to what is and what isnt is the most retarded shit I've ever heard. Are we supposed to apply their standards to our sophisticated definitions of free trade, natural science or humanism?Get fucked moron.
>>18400485How can I know, we're on an anonymous FFS.You're seemingly arguing so hard about how fascism and communism are so similar to one another.Rather, I'd say I'm most against the idea of communism becoming fascism.I'd say it's more like socialism becomes authoritarian.There are no real communist countries.
>>18400449Because the overwhelming majority of socialists dont want to be associated with communism. Maybe you're perspection on this is distorted because you are a mutt and mutts have always been deranged but here in Europe I can assure you there is a VERY distinguished line between being a socialist and being a communist. It's basically whether you are a normal person or slightly below Hitler.
>>18400494>our sophisticated definitions>humanismLmao
>>18400503>You're seemingly arguing so hard about how fascism and communism are so similar to one another.Becuase they are, but I also pointed out the obvious differences, and one of them being that communism prusue egalitarianism while fascism promoted hierarchy under the state.I know we are on a anonymous forum but you clearly dont understand the point I've been trying to make since I posted >>18400334 so why the fuck are you even debating me
>>18400504That's because they are socialists, but not Marxist socialists which is what the unmodified term socialist generally means. A democratic socialist is frequently not a Marxist.
>>18400507Yes. because our modern understanding of humanism didnt begin until the enlightment, that was the entire reason for the enlightment, that man has rights. The ancient Greeks never understood nor wanted to believe this.
>>18400511Because I don't think communism becomes fascism.
>>18400516Humanism can't be understood because it isn't real. Human rights have been thoroughly debunked.
>>18400515This is especially true for anarchists.
>>18400517They begin to resemble fascism far more than they resemble what communism is supposed to be according to its theory and manifest.
>>18400522Anarchists usually don't call themselves socialists, do they? They usually just say anarcho-communist or nothing at all. I suppose it depends on whether you consider libertarian socialists a type of anarchist.
>>18400515It still doesnt change the fact that you cannot talk about socialism, and then use communism as the main framwork for the debate. It's absurd.And that was my point with the anon who could only prove a point about fascism by ONLY using Nazism as his frame of reference.
>>18400524Maybe if you never read Marx>>18400458>>18400449The authoritarianism and violence is part of the program. It's prescribed. Marxists believe that only through the Dictatorship of the Proletariat can they achieve the withering away of the state only after which the State-Socialism will transition to communism (which has, in fact, never been tried because it's literally impossible)
>>18400527To be fair, I don't know what a generic form of "socialism" would look like. Divorced from Marx, it's a useless word.What do Democratic Socialism, National-Socialism, Libertarianism Socialism, Islamic Socialism and Marxist Socialism have in common?
>>18400525They would characterize themselves as communists.>>18400524Is that really communism though, or are we talking socialism?Communism aims to desolve the state. Fascism requires the state.
>>18400504>>18400515>>18400527>>18400534you are confusing socialism with social democracy
>>18400525>>18400535>characterizeCategorize*
>>18400532>Maybe if you never read MarxCorrect me if I am wrong, but doesnt Marx say that a communism is to be without a state, without classes, without property, without money etc?Which communist states has achieved this?I can point out a great number of communist states that did the complete opposite.Communist states that become hyper-nationalistic, authoritarian, elitist. Would you like me to make a list for you?
>>18400535>Communism aims to desolve the state. Fascism requires the state.Yes, hence why communism is practice begins to resemble more what fascism is in theory.
>>18400543Which is?
>>18400540Communist state is an oxymoron. The "communist states" you're thinking of considered themselves in a transitionary stage between authoritarian state-socialism and a stateless communist society. I am not a Marxist btw.
>>18400537And you are confusing fascism with nazism.I dont even know how the two can be put into a single folder. The entire premise of their ideology is wrong.Fascism wants the state to define the people. Your identity is the state.Nazism wants the people to define the state. If you change the blood of the people, you change the state.
>>18400545>transitionary stageA transitionary stage is an oxymoron.It's quite clear what communism becomes in practice when every single communist state has and is following the exact same formula.
>>18400543>communism is practice begins to resemble more what fascism is in theoryThe Soviets had state-socialism (no markers, no private property). The fascists had a mixed-economy with markets and private property. China and Vietnam have the latter. This is why I honestly consider Xi Jinping to be a national-socialist rather than any kind of Marxist at this point. It's only a matter of time before they drop the Maoist larp and rebrand
>>18400550Those states have all be socialist.They might brand themselves as communist, but their practice had been more along the lines of socialism.Communism is a rejection of capitalism and all the 'communist countries' have made no real moves in uprooting capitalism.
>>18400550I agree with you. Marx was e wrong. Communism isn't real. The state never whithers away. Every time it's been tried, the states either liberalized or simply stayed permanently authoritarian socialist (DPRK, Cuba).I'm not trying to convince you Marx was right. I'm just explaining what they believe. You should really read Capital. It makes arguing with Marxists a lot more fun.
>>18400551Except half of China's economy is socialized.Vietnam on the other hand is basically capitalist. For their economy, number go up.
>>18400566Fair enough. Still the same in principle. I don't know much about the Vietnamese economy tbf.
>>18400566Although I would still class China as capitalist, as much as France, Russia or Germany
>>18400550>The fascists had a mixed-economy with markets and private property. As I said before it was a corporatist/Syndicalist model where private property is tolerated as long as it serves the interest of the state.The differences in practice to the Soviet system quickly becomes eroded and more gounded in ideological framing on paper.For everything else the market and economy was highly controlled according to the interest of the fascist state.>This is why I honestly consider Xi Jinping to be a national-socialistExcept in order to qualify as NS you need to have a rooted ideology based on the purity of the blood. NS is basically racial socialism. Xi doesnt have this. China is extremely multi-ethnic.>It's only a matter of time before they drop the Maoist larp and rebrandAll arguments aside, this will never happen because larping as successors of the founding fathers (Mao etc) gives Xi Jinping and his ruling elite the necessary legitimacy to maintain absolute power.Vietnam does the exact same thing. They are a capitalist state but basically kept the communist logo because it gives them legitimacy to rule with impunity since they 'were the ones' who defeated Vietnams enemies and created her independence.
Fascism is a modernist movement that built around state as an organism.People are cells, institutions are organs, capitalists are the brain, workers are the hands, government is the heart etc. It's also a modernist futurist movement, it reject traditionalist conservatism for a modernist worldview. Fascists also largely rejected Christianity for they saw it as a slave morality religion, seeking to replace it with Pagan "Hero" religion to install a ubermensch concept to the people.99% of what people call Fascism isn't fascism. What the left calls Fascism is not Fascism really at all outside of Mussolini or Nazi Germany, Franco, Pinochet etc were absolutely not Fascists, just military strongmen.If you want a good insight into Fascist worldview, watch Metropolis. It literally explains Fascism at the end.Also Fascism died out after WW2 and Fascists were largely all sublimated into Liberal Foreign policy establishment to beat down Communists.
>>18400583>fascism died out after WW2America is in fascism now.
>>18400576Fascist Italy and NS Germany had tightly regulated but still private markets like any civilized countryChina under Xi is an explicit Han supremacist state. Just because they aren't ruthlessly exterminating all Han doesn't change thatI do think that it becomes difficult to pursue non-Marxist policy objectives while still larping on Marxist even on just an aesthetic level, but you may be right
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_on_Promoting_Ethnic_Unity_and_Progresshttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp9meeek051o
>>18400475I'm not a thirdworldist, I'm just saying the concept of fascism has no consistent meaning outside of the postcolonial paradigm within which it is used
It's not fascism yet if women still have credit cards.
>>18400596Is this law applied to the Chabad community in practice?
>>18400414It's almost like marxists are deceptive and don't really believe what they say or write.
>>18400347I think Stanley Payne would agree with you, but Iron Guard (the Legion of the Archangel Michael) was more revolutionary in their aspirations even though they talked up Christianity more. From what I recall in A History of Fascism he placed them in the more true fascist category along with the Italian fascists, the German national socialists, and the Hungarian Arrow Cross.>>18400370I'm going to sound like a Marxist, but I think the fascists were rebelling against bourgeois society more than capitalism as a mode of production. These are two different things. The idea of regulating markets or trade as therefore being anti-capitalistic (despite some of their rhetoric) isn't a good definition, since capitalism rose up with regulated markets, tariffs, state-connected monopolies. But the fascists were defiantly opposed to the kind of politics and culture that emerged from the development of capitalism, which includes liberalism but also socialism, since socialism in fact emerges from within bourgeois society.>>18400408I'd say a big difference is the materialism of Marxism vs. the anti-materialism of fascism. Fascism in terms of how it understood itself was much very wrapped up in the notion of there being higher spiritual values. Bourgeois society tends to justify itself in terms of individual rights and economic self-interest. For Marxists, it's class struggle, which has its base in economic life. A fascist really doesn't view things like that, it's grounded in something more mythic and spiritual which is why you can make spooky gothic music inspired by it:https://youtu.be/2BSLsAwO9LI
>>18397549>FreddaI'm not even watching. That is a tranny isn't it?
>>18400637Yes https://www.jta.org/quick-reads/china-rabbi-says-synagogue-shutdowns-shielded-congregants-from-coronavirusCompare tohttps://www.timesofisrael.com/cuomo-apologizes-to-new-york-orthodox-jews-for-past-handling-of-covid-19-restrictions/>>18400643This only applies to the Jewish ones and only some of them. Most Orthodox Marxists are genuinely very dogmatic.>>18400672I wish there more English secondary-sources on Iron Guard. I read For My Legionaries years ago, but I forgot most of it
>>18400586Could you elaborate on this. Im genuinely curious how people can reason this way.Not an American btw.
>>18400833Well, it's not just America, Hungary, the Philippines, Japan, Italy, Russia, Israel. Germany has gotten back into it.The Axis is back and there's new members and and an old enemy.Anyway, the reason why all of these countries can be considered as such is due to their nationalistic, anti-democratic, anti-press, brown shirting (in this case ICE).In the end one can't really look at one thing for fascism. Fascism has different characteristics and some of what I listed doesn't apply to all of them.
>>18400833>>18400849Also, that's only just to name a few. Really, there's some that I'm not been aware of.
>>18400849And you dont think the word "fascism" becomes inflated when you use it so liberally?Cause this would suggest that most states were already fascist around the world, by this criteria.We never labeled Saudi Arabi as fascist, nor would be it be rational to do so, yet they perfectly fit your criteria of fascism.It would also be an inflation of fascism from a historic perspective.This means that Nassers Egypt was fascist (which it wasnt) because it was extremely nationalistic and and anti-democratic and cleaned up unwanted elements.Come sir. You're more reasonable than this. The whole "everything authoritarian is fascist" is so tiresome.
>>18400863I would say then that they have fascistic tendencies.But, really, when you hit certain criteria, you pretty much are there. If the rule of three isn't enough to give you a pattern, then I don't know.Also, I didn't say authoritarian once in my estimate. I know that fascism is inherently authoritarian, but that authoritarianism isn't exclusively fascist.
>>18400551>The fascists had a mixed-economy with markets and private property.Why are you leaving out so much vital information? Are you trying to be disingenuous on purpose?Private property existed but the state directed production priorities, labor and employers were organized into state-controlled corporations.It was state-directed mixed economy, in other words corporatism, in other words syndicalism.There were no free labor market (workers can’t organize independently) and no independent capital (business must follow state goals).The nation/state is above the individual because the individual rights are conditional on serving the whole Society is organized as a unified collective organism.
>>18400878>I would say then that they have fascistic tendencies.It's ridiculous to label absolutely everything, every single state to every single fiefdom as "fascist tendencies" just for your argument to even work. No one believes this. Every historian would think its absurd. This is something you have invented in the last 20 years.>But, really, when you hit certain criteria, you pretty much are there.Then the word becomes completely meaningless because it's applied on almost everything at every time.> I know that fascism is inherently authoritarian, but that authoritarianism isn't exclusively fascist.And yet that's basically your definitng factor, you said it yourself. An oppressive regime to infringe on basic democratic rights. You never elaborated further and I dont think you ever will give a proper strucured contextualization on the definition. You're vague on purpise because the framing is flawed and relies on propaganda against political opponents. I dont say I belong to this group, but I am not stupid. It's almost exclusively Americans, or at least from the anglosphere who do this as well. The word is more symbolic to you than to anyone else so it's not used according to its proper meaning but for symbolic value.
>>18400833>>18400849>>18400854>>18400863>>18400878Okay, so I'm pulling up a list.Another is anti-marxism. Which definitely describes America and socialism. Opposition to political and cultural liberalism. Another one for America. Totalitarian ambitions. That more specifically describes Trump. This might describe Italy. Conservative economic programs. Maybe America, I'm not sure. Corporatism. Definitely America. Alleged equality of social status. America I guess, possibly also Japan. That's probably most except for Israel. Imperialism. Definitely America, Russia, and Israel. Military Values: America for sure. Volksgemeinschaft.>Hitler envisioned the ideal German society as a Volksgemeinschaft, a racially unified and hierarchically organized body in which the interests of individuals would be strictly subordinate to those of the nation, or Volk. Like a military battalion, the people’s community would be permanently prepared for war and would accept the discipline that this required. The Italian, French, and Spanish versions of this doctrine, known as “integral nationalism,” were similarly illiberal, though not racist. The Japanese version, known as the “family-system principle,” maintained that the nation is like a family: it is strong only when the people obey their leaders in the same way children obey their parents. I'm going to guess Israel and Japan on this one.Mass mobilization.I don't think any of them. Sort of. Maga kind of.Leadership principle. Trump wants that. He kind of has it. Maybe Italy. Dunno. The new man: America definitely. Glorification of youth: America, Japan, and I don't know what else. Education as character building. Definitely America probably some of the others. Japan kind of has a history of that. Decadence and spirituality: America and Israel for sure. Violence: Definitely America, Israel, and Russia. Extreme nationalism: that's like all of them. Scapegoating: America 100% what with the xenophobia. Cont. with last item.
>>18400879>workers can’t organize independentlyIf you mean "pick their own jobs", then you're wrong. If you mean "form a union", then that's the same for a lot of non-fascist countries>business must follow state goalsThat's literally every country. American companies aren't allowed to sell weapons to Iran or give away national secrets. That's still capitalism, just for people who aren't retarded.
>>18400887>>18400894Oh, I'm sorry. Last items.Populism: Probably all of them.I'm doing this more list like than the last post.Revolutionary image: America maybe. Israel maybe. Probably kind of all of them.Antiurbanism: Definitely America. Probably some of the others maybe.Sexism and misogyny: Definitely America and probably a good chunk of the others.This entire list is based off of what was listed on britannica btw.
>>18400887>>18400894>>18400903Oh, my answer got mixed with the greentext.>I'm going to guess Israel and Japan on this one.
>>18400887>>18400894>>18400903>>18400906Oh, I fucked the first part up. It's anti-marxism and anti-socialism. Which is yeah, definitely American.
>>18400887>>18400894>>18400903>>18400906>>18400908Oh, yeah, I wanted to also list Israel for scapegoating. Ran out of space.
>>18400894Okay before we continue, would you say Turkiye is fascist?
>>18400919I think so, maybe. They have a sort of cultural spiritual level to them. Probably not particularly a fan of Jews. I'm not so familiar with what they got going on.
>>18400919Ataturk was a National-Socialist.
>>18400922It's a yes or no answer.You have access to google.Your answer is going to be very important for this disucssion because I suspect that you have a biased obssession on USA that distorts your logic and reasoning.Take a moment and educate yourself on Turkey. It's a pretty important country in the world.
>>18400919>>18400922Also, while I mentioned Hungary earlier, I have heard it becoming fascist. But, I've also heard it being quite flimsy. According to britannica's ai it apparently isn't.>Hungary is currently a parliamentary republic and a member of the European Union. The country transitioned from a communist regime to a multiparty democracy in 1989. While Prime Minister Viktor Orbán's government has been described as increasingly authoritarian and an "illiberal democracy", the provided sources do not classify Hungary as fascist.>Fascism is a political ideology characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. While Hungary has seen shifts in its political landscape, including the rise of nationalist sentiments and controversial legislation, these developments do not align with the definition of a fascist state.
>>18400934I can imagine your entire world is extremely confusing because once you start to actually apply critical thinking, you seem to be self-aware enough to realise that a lot of pop-culture talking points on social media doesnt really make sense.But lets keep our conversation liminted to Turkey to begin with because I want to start somewhere.
>>18400946Here's a somewhere to start: are you a fascist?
>>18400949No I am not a fascist because I frown on the idea that the state should dictate my life and I should surrender my individualism to become a cog in the machinery.
>>18397549Fascism is when you support free speechFascism is when you support only citizens being able to vote in elections and deciding the government policiesFascism is when you want your borders securedFascism is when you dont allow children to be groomed and castrated
>>18400955Too many Americans on this board.
>>18400894It's so insane how people actually pull up these giant checklists of oddly specific things and measure how fascist something is on a spectrum. It's a lot like how autism is diagnosed. It's so nebulous it's like why even bother with that descriptor.At least commies have a simple and somewhat intuitive definition of fascism: violent attempt of capital to preserve itself. This checklist thing is stupid
>>18400894>>18400903So what happened? Did the wheel stop dead in their tracks? I asked you a simple question. Is Turkey fascist? It's a yes or no answer. That's all you have to type and it takes roughly 5-8 seconds to type and post it.You seemed extremely confident in labeling USA as fascist but this suddenly required hesitation and perspective? or am I missing something?
>>18400965Still waiting for him to answer on whether Turkey is fascist or not. I think he has realised that his definitions on USA being fascist is full of shit because any answer will expose the propaganda.But I am going to keep asking: Is Turkey fascist?
>>18400952Okay, good. I don't really care continue. I'm sure you're right or something. I don't know. You're just being a stickler. For what? It's so pragmatic to not label shit as fascist because... because we shouldn't have much sense of urgency? Shit is hitting the fan, but hey at least it's not technically fascism.Whatever, you fucking condescending cunt.
>>18400976LMAO holy shit, that didnt take much.
>>18400978Actually, from the looks of it, it seems like what you're fishing for is Neofascism?Are you fucking kidding me?!Oh, jeez, the technicality of it, okay it's Neofascism.
>>18400704>I wish there more English secondary-sources on Iron Guard. I read For My Legionaries years ago, but I forgot most of itFrom what Payne wrote about them, they had a unique ideology in which it was the duty of their members to shed blood and die for the nation even if that would cast their soul into damnation. That sounds based and stuff but it really produced a uniquely morbid cult that very radical and troublesome to an authoritarian conservative government in Romania which killed the leader Codreanu and others and dumped their bodies in a lime pit (although some others would come back and participate in the Axis-aligned government in World War II).The social class base of these different fascist parties are also varied. Workers and peasants apparently were overrepresented in the Legion which was not the case for other fascist parties.>>18400894>Mass mobilization.>I don't think any of them. Sort of. Maga kind of.More this, people don't really have a grasp today on how nuts these regimes were:https://youtu.be/oYZjNdKH6s8
>>18397564fpbp
>>18400978>>18400991Also, looking again, evidently not Turky. But Hungary yeah, and applies to most of what I listed before.
>>18400991What's the difference between fascism and neofascism?
>>18400991Also it's a shame because you were so close to reach self-awareness by simple internal exploration that what others have told you is fascism may not be true, but then at the last minute, you did a 180 degree turn back to your self-dishonest betrayal of logic and reason by finding a new label to dodge the confrontation of having to rationalize fascism.A real shame.
>>18401028Neofascism basically is more defined for being right winged authoritarian, nationalistic, etc. Fascism is significantly more compartmentalized. So, while it follows traditions of fascism, it is effectively its own ideology.
>>18401032You may not be a fascist but you seem to sympathize quite a bit with it.
>>18401021Yeah because everyone has decided to hate on Hungary so naturally you jump on the hype train.That's why I want you to rationalize whether Turkey is or isnt fascist because its an example that hasnt been targeted by the narrative, so it forces perspective over bias to reach a conclusion.So the question still stands, is Turkey fascist? Yes or no.
>>18401041'Evidently not' escaped you? Yeah, okay no then.
>>18401040Ah yes, the classic reflexive suspicion that the person themselves might be on the evil side, directed at someone who is just trying to investigate the subject and understand it better.
>>18401037So what is the difference between fascism and neofascism?isnt fascism also nationalistic and authoritarian?
>>18401043Okay thank you for a clear answer.So how come Turkiye does not qualify as being fascist but USA does, when Turkiye basically meet every single criteria you just listed in your longer 'list'
>>18401041>Other national leaders in the first three decades of the 21st century whose authoritarian approaches had some features in common with fascism include Alexander Lukashenko, who became president of Belarus in 1994; Viktor Orbán, who served as prime minister of Hungary from 1998 to 2002 and again from 2010Okay, I misread about Hungary. But, kind of.Get mad at britannica.
>>18401047It is, but it's also populist and religious among some others. Which fascism can alternatively be, but not strictly so for fascism.
>>18401049I meant neofascism.
>>18401044Well, you're doing a shitty job at it.I can't say I'm great at it, but fuck me, dude.
>>18401058What makes Turkey populist but not USA or Hungary? Isnt Erdogan a populist?Ok so religion cant be part of the fascist movement?The entire Falangist movement was heavily centered around protecting the status of the clergy in Spain.
>>18401072I'm actually asking questions to test my own position. You're just defending what you've been told and constantly appeal to authority in your arguments.You basically say accept the narrative or you're one of them.
>>18401058So are you going to answer? Why is Turkey not fascist but USA and Hungary are? Which criterias differ?
>>18397549>if you don't want to be flooded and raped by foreigners, you are.... LE FASCIST!!!!Why does this garbage perpetuate? If you're going to define fascism this way, all you're going to do is make more and more normal, sensible people identify as fascist. Which is presumably not what the people who say this want. They are delusional retards.
>>18401229Yep, the whole left-right divide in modern politics isnt even about conservatives vs liberals/socialists, it's reason vs mania. Using fascism to apply on anything they dont like when it's so obvious that it's an indefensible position to argue when it's actually put into debate, yet these people still cling on to it because it's so important to their narrative, is probably the most obvious of all destructive delusions. I think even a lot of people on the left feel confused over this hysteria because it's so obviously irrational.If you scroll up, the guy I was debating literally lost his shit just because I even wanted to debate it >>18400976 like complete anger at the topic even being pressed instead of letting the default remain, and then immediately accused me of being sympathetic to fascism because I wanted to have a rational debate. It's almost religious to them to maintain the narrative that they are prepared to abandon reason and logic of a self-aware individual for that end.
>>18401229>Why does this garbage perpetuate?Because online garbage is the only thing that perpetuates
>>18400402>Socialism yeah. Communism no.This is called "moving the goalpost".
>>18401276You know Hitler wasn't a real Nazi?Real Nazism is supposed ro establish a thousand year reich while Hitler managed only a dozen.
>>18401319People learn through their failures though. Mistakes into miracles. The most important thing is to try your best.
>>18400586No it's not.Fascism does not exist anymore. It was an ideology of the 1920s-40s that disappeared after the 40s. There were very few true believers in Fascism as well, like Communism, you had a true believing cadre at top and everyone else sort of just went along. Once that true believer cadre disappeared, so did Fascism.For most people, they didn't believe in social organism, they didn't believe that christianity was a slave ideology, they didn't believe in neo-classical futurism, they were simply "fascists" because they were reactionaries, just like how after the USSR fell, most CPSU members became far-right wing nationalists, because that was actually their ideology after belief in Communism died in the 1960s and the USSR was seen as a NATIONALIST project.What happened to Fascism is the intellectuals and true believer leaders got killed, so what you had was masses of goons under them who were simply conservative anti-communist reactionaries, who through operation paperclip, Operation Aerodynamic etc were taken into the west and turned into the foreign policy establishment to counter-Communism.
>>18401404That guy has long left the thread because he couldnt handle simple questions.He fits every stereotype of the kind of people that believes USA is fascist because of ICE.
>>18401073I'm saying neofascism is populist and fascism can be at time populist. Fascism is more eclectic. Neofascism is more defined. But even with that a said neofascism is more of an ideology than a carteblanch policy. So, no governments would necessarily state themselves as officially neofascist.I walked back a little on Hungary. It's not fascist or is it really neofascist.As for Turkey, it doesn't get mentioned in the britannica article like Hungary does. I don't know why Turkey isn't counted as such but the U.S.A. is. Is Turkey nationalist? Authoritarian? Oppose individualism? Oppose left-wing ideologies? Racist? Traditionalists? Fundamentally religious? That's not everything but most, and if it checks most of those boxes, then I'd say so.
>>18401077You're being a debate bro. I am citing britannica. It's better source than most and it's supposed to be the premium option over fucking wikipedia.I don't know what sources you would necessarily trust.
Does it even matter at this point? Fascism, just like communism doesn't seem to exist anymore, both were ultimately defeated by capitalism.
>>18401073>>18401997>It's not fascist or is it really neofascist.Fuck, I forgot the fucking 'n' in 'nor.'
>>18397549If (authoritarian) && (!communist)
>>18402002>defeated by capitalism.By progressivism, which also defeated/hybridized with the liberalism which preceded it.
>>18402002It does. Although, the problem is the modern idea of fascism isn't what it had been historically. So, while it can be said that fascism no longer exists, the idea of fascism lives on in modern interpretation.Communism is a goal, socialism is what's ever been defeated.At any rate the problem with what you said in that capitalism triumphed over both is preposterous. We had to go to a war to stamp out fascism where a good chunk of the world was drawn into. The Cold War is what was defeated with economics. It's precisely why it was a cold war, and not a hot one like WWII.
>>18402005Everything ultimately goes back to capitalism and the pursuit of profits at any cost and the concentration of power in the hands of few rich individuals. This is what makes those fascism vs communism debates so funny online. Both sides are usually so entrenched in their own petty little kingdoms fighting like it's still 1930s and the Spanish Civil War is going on outside while in the real world it means absolutely nothing anymore. Fascism was military defeated in 1945, communism imploded in peace times in 1991, and the world simply moved on. I don't know if it is for the better or worse, but that's the way it is.
>>18402012>Everything ultimately goes back to capitalism and the pursuit of profits at any cost and the concentration of power in the hands of few rich individualsNot necessarily. There had been multiple instances of communism being attempted and ultimately subverted by capitalist states. Such things as socialization in some form manifests every now and again. New York City for example. I know it's city in this instance, but the point still stands capitalism isn't always prioritized.
>>18402012>>18402034I guess it's kind of premature to mention NYC because it had only just entered into socialism, so we don't know how things will actually go. But, if not there then the usual places of Venezuela, Cuba and Netherlands, etc.
>>18402037>>18402034I admit I don't really follow American politics, what socialist measures were actually implemented in NYC? Workers councils, nationalization of industry, land reform?
>>18402044I haven't been following what Mamdani has been up to lately. The last I've heard is that he had been focused on housing by making inspections. But, my greater point is that socialism had been chosen, so the profit incentivized capitalist class had been undermine. How things go from here is uncertain. Which is why I would consider better examples the other countries I listed.
>>18401997>I'm saying neofascism is populist and fascism can be at time populist. Fascism is more eclectic. Neofascism is more defined.So what is the difference between fascism and neofascism?This is just ridiculous if you cant explain what either is.> but the U.S.A. is. Why is USA fascist but Turkey isnt?>if it checks most of those boxes, then I'd say soIt checks those boxes far more than USA. Is this not a problem to your narrative? Why does some states (which are far more democratic) get to be labeled as fascist and not the other? Even you should admit there is a problem here, from a completely unbiased and rational position.
>>18401999>You're being a debate bro.I dont attack you with dehumanizing accusations for simply exploring logic and reason, something I wasnt allowed to do according to you. You made a very heated post earlier telling me this topic should not be debated, which is extremely anti-intellectual and slightly authoritarian leaning in terms of personal values, regardless of topic. >I don't know what sources you would necessarily trust.I read what the fascists themselves wrote. Shouldnt you read the Communist manifesto or Das Kapital to understand marxism?This whole Turkey debacle should have proven that you cannot rationalize it at all. It's extremely slimey, unconvincing, and exposes some clear propaganda since it cannot be rationalized with neither reason nor logic.
>>18402239Aside from what I just told you, I don't know what the fuck you're looking for. Another way of looking at it is by paradigm. For which fascism is the old paradigm and neofascism is the new one. Fascism speaks to an era, whereas neofascism is contemporary. Another way of looking at it is that fascism didn't have as many commonalities with their contemporary regimes of their era for being too broad in range of their policies, where neofascism has more tendencies that lend themselves to a pattern, like I listed before.Why was Turkey not mentioned in the britannica article I'm drawing my info from: I don't know, but it is evidently neofascist from what you're telling me, more so even than the U.S.A.>Why does some states (which are far more democratic) get to be labeled as fascist and not the other? Because being anti-democracy isn't neofascist. It is fascist insomuch as the mode whichever regime had it.>I dont attack you with dehumanizing accusations for simply exploring logic and reasonYou're being a debate bro for being so ardent in debating me. You're not interested in learning any truth, you're interested in dismissing any idea that could to a lead better understanding on the subject.>something I wasnt allowed to do according to you. >I read what the fascists themselves wroteYou may have just read Mussolini what he wrote on the subject, he was the architect for it. Everything else goes into different directions and muddies the water.With all that said, now that I understand that what is referred to as fascism in modern parlance is actually neofascism, I can now conclude that I've lost my interest in speaking about fascism in any broader sense. I don't think it's productive. It's trivia in my mind what it had been considered historically or by officiates of the time. Also, don't even bother telling me how I was trying to shut down discussion. You've been uncharitable to me this entire discussion. I hold no hope your reply would be any different.
>>18402276>I don't know what the fuck you're looking forHow about something concrete instead of word-salad.Is it too much to ask for?If you asked me what is communism and neocommunism, I could easily describe it to you without having to resort to broad strokes to veil my own incompetence because I dont actually know what communsim is and what neocommunism is.Go on, ask me the question, and I'll show you how it's supposed to be doneYou're the one throwing the word fascist around, you should be able to explain it better than anyone.The reason you're frustrated with this debate is because you allow it to drag on by being as vague as you possibly can while simultaniously seething that I am being sticky about it. Do you understand how moronic this is?> but it is evidently neofascist from what you're telling me, more so even than the U.S.A.If you're going to use the term neofascist, then you should know what it means. Otherwise this is ridiculous and you're no better than a child who just learned a new wordAlso, if you have this completely autistic position of appeal to authority, why would you say Turkey is something when Britannica says it isnt? Doesnt that go against your entire rationale and mantra?Also if Turkey is fascist (or whatever slippery veil you want to use) then how come it's never labeled as fascist by virtually ANYONE. No social science or political analysist. No historian. No current interest groups etc. Isnt this problematic? I mean if we are going to be completely neutral and unbiased and objective and simply follow reason and logic, shouldnt Turkey be far ahead of USA on the fascist label if USA merits it?>Because being anti-democracy isn't neofascistSo when does a country get to become neofascist?>You're not interested in learning any truth, you're interested in dismissing any idea that could to a lead better understanding on the subjectActually I'm testing my argument because I could be disproven. I just dont feel satisfied yet
>>18402276>You may have just read Mussolini what he wrote on the subject,No I read what Gentile wrote. I read what the Falangist wrote. I read what Mussolini wrote. I read what Mosley wrote.So far I've read 4 different sources from fascist founding fathers.>he was the architect for it.Actually not true. Fascism as an ideology was developed during the late 19th century and Mussolini was inspired by it.Mussolini also depended on other fascist thinkers to develop his theories, most importantly being Giovanni Gentile who also was the one who wrote the fascist manifesto.Fascism also developed in other states independent of Mussolini, such as the Falangists, and even Metaxas to some extent.> I don't think it's productive. It's trivia in my mind what it had been considered historically or by officiates of the time.Well we are on a history board and fascism is history. I largely argee with you but I still find the topic captivating (as with much else of history). The main difference is the sudden resurgence of the word among Americans (and only Americans, you dont see it anywhere else), who have basically claimed the word for themselves and act like they have a patent on it but cannot really understand it themselves.As a European, I find it extremely anti-intellectual and dishonest, yet very intriguing. It reminds me of religion almost.
>>18402012>duuuude, like, people wanting to maximize their return on investment is like, the root of al evil, maaaaaan, and somehow unique historically>>18402044best we can do is proposing a 2% increase on income tax on people earning over $1M
>>18397549>Norwegian communist>literally defends the reserve army of laborWe NEEEEED a Cheka or a KGB to axe these fucking class collaborationist sellouts.>ermmm the working class is too WhiteFuck you, face the wall.
Capitalism is a spook that doesn't exist in reality, every State operates on some mixed market economy which incorporates free market elements with socialism and a dash of moralistically principle.
>>18400516Rights are social construct.
>>18402684USSR didn't. It's dead though
>TFW your mind is so trapped in a system of mental control your only frame of reference for defining the expressions of others by a system of thought created by people you hate, but also want to take care of you.>TFW both sides will think I'm speaking of one side, from the perspective of their own
>>18402682The Cheka and the KGB were heavily abused during their respective periods of opperation. Even if Norway gave up their retarded Nordic model for Marxism, it would be better without a secret police.
>>18397549Dosent matter traditional fascism,nazism or communism is never comming back anyway as the people advocating it today are all very unserious and useless people and we all have just enough live comfortably and abundantly.The red army wont be storming the whitehouse,there wont be race wars and ss units.We will do types of iberal democracy forever.
>>18397817>AND YOU LIKE HARD WORK AND DON'T WANT TO SIMPLY TAKE MONEY WHENEVER WE WANT FROM THE RICHgoy
>>18397549You need to buy an ad if you want to promote your rubbish, Fredda
Real fascism has never been tried :3
