About myself:My grandparents were born Protestants from Silesia (Germans, not Poles), but came to reject Christianity due to the anti-religious propaganda in East Germany. My father grew up atheist, so did I. I'm in my mid-twenties now, converted to Catholicism a few years ago. I mostly did it, because I rejected my surroundings morally and aesthetically, love Rome, respect the 2000 year old history of the church and wanted to align myself more with my best friend who's also Catholic.Despite loving Christ, I'd have to be a lier to claim I ever felt or experienced him in my life. The church in my region is also dying, the priest that baptized me is one of two remaining, both 60+ with no successor.Now I'm even more cynical, depraved and apathetic than I was five years ago and asking myself if this is how the pagans felt in the decades before Christ's birth — their religion being an antiquated relic that only serves traditionalistic and musealistic purposes, waiting for the birth of a new God. My question to you:We see Christ being questioned by cynics and hecklers multiple time in the Bible, and him not being shy to prove his miraculous abilities. Everyone saw him heal the sick and resurrect the dead. There had to be hundreds of eyewitnesses seeing that he was the Living God. Nowadays, we're being told to "believe real hard", to "wish for God's love" and to vaguely interpret signs and wonders into everything, while straying further from God everyday, "because who cares, right?". Where is this Living God now? Where are those non-vague, very clear signs that prove he is the way, the light and the reason not to give up on him?In short: How long need I knock at a door, when no one's opening? When is it justified to give up and what is the alternative?
Friendly reminder that the new testament is littered with people who didn't believe Jesus until he proved himself through working miracles. He tried again and again to convince them through persuasion alone, but failed everytime, unless he spoke with divine authority and made them feel his might.God is absent today. You don't feel him, see him and people need to force themselves to believe in him, proselytize online and create echo chambers to continually convince each other God is among them, listening and caring.Do you know of a single case where anyone was convinced of God's existence by the persuasion attempts of a user with Jesus as his profile pic? I doubt it.Persuasion never works. People need to see and feel a living God to believe in him.
>>18400260You get it. An acquaintance of mine is a young turkish muslim man. He is a religious fanatic and spends most of his time everyday trying to spread his beliefs, spreading Quran quotes and debating Christians/atheists, with his profile picture being that of a medieval Andalusian ruler. He's a complete loser, unemployed, his family disrespects him, he spends all day on the internet or going on incel walks with his "muslim brothers". We got into contact online with him because we thought he really had some insights into religion, before we realized that he is only an internet ideologue, no different from fanatical commies and libertarians or political party fanatics. Every believer I talked to was either this cringe internet crusader type or a (concealed) nihilist, who only more or less practiced the religion for a lack of alternatives. For other readers: I'm not trying to subvert any believers on this board btw, I just want answers.
This turkish guy managed to convice some low-income young German guys to follow him btw, but I believe they mostly did it because of the free sex and male brotherhood they associate with Islam.
>>18400258Yes , Christianity is dead it committed suicide by embarrassing itself to death
>>18400258I feel for you, OP.As a teenager, I walked away from a type of charasmatic church. An issue I had is that no matter how much I desired, I never felt God's presence the way others said I would experience Him. There was no moment, no response, no tangible fruit that made me say, "I know You."I moved on and joined a different church, one with a richer tradition and actual catechism. During that time I built a deeper connection through understanding Him through the gospel, church, and spiritual life. I left vices behind, I actually WANTED to be kind and charitable, and I am at peace in a way I never knew possible.I came to my church for "logical reasons," but really that only gets one so far. I wish I could tell you, "It's so obvious, God's real presence is right here!" But that's not how it worked, least of all for me. Instead of any one experience I can point to as 100% confirmation, I can look back at my failures and successes and know that I was never alone.I know it's not a satisfying answer, but God has a plan for all. I pray that you can overcome your struggle and recognize Him. This also means developing a spirit of humility, gratitude, and love. It's worth it, not just when you die but well before.tldr; I knocked and never got an answer, but when the door creaked open I went in and made a home.
Have you believed, Thomas, because you have seen? Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed.
>>18400258>We see The problem is that your seeing is evocative from biblical passages, not physical, neither inner (shamanic) vision. I assume you don't believe in much, for lack of experience. There's experiences to be had tho. As a shaman, I occasionally do see stuff, and it's things that do have effect in the subtle dimensions. As a Christian, you probably lack these experiences, or cant see authentic ones (hard to say, which ones are), this experience of no feedback is what nourishes atheism. I would consuel to switch religions, maybe you'll color more your life, and see whats what.
>>18401539Are you talking about your drug-induced visions or sober experiences?
>>18401693Sober, I don't do psychoactive substances. Traineable skill.
>>18400258It was forcibly suppressed and destroyed by the commie occupation. You're lucky it still exists in east germany at all.
>>18401755More details: Your religion, practices. What do you have to offer?
>>18400258The big german curches are just bloated. Their structures are not suited for their now much diminuished base of believers, and they don't know how to deal with it. But there are some legitimate believers in the free churches, and those have a future. Though it's probably as dhimmis to the coming caliphate. Then again, that's what they prefer to actually defending christian europe.
>>18401804>Protestant sectsNo thank you.
>>18402032Alternative is burning
>>18401784Shamanism. Idk, are you familiar? Because I can mention practices at random or rec a book and there's still bound to be gaps. Pic is one of the nice books for learning vision, essentially it's a safeish environment.
>>18402047Never heard of it in serious modern religious context. I'm not looking to buy a new ideology btw, I'm not just bored. If you really gain visions without drugs and aren't bullshitting me, I'm interested.
>>18402060It requires training, pouring in practice, and then some more, it's a lifelong pursuit. Also, religion mostly is silly, it's a bunch of rules regarding some nonsense book. Shamanism is more about the experience. Modern takes focus on the healing, while religious nuts take a tradition approach.
While Jesus sometimes gave signs, he sometimes declined.>The Pharisees and Sadducees came, and to test Jesus they asked him to show them a sign from heaven. He answered them, “When it is evening, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.’ And in the morning, ‘It will be stormy today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. An evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” Then he left them and went away.Even when he did, witnesses often didn't put their faith in him>Although he had performed so many signs in their presence, they did not believe in him.Didn't the same Israelites who had the Red Sea parted for them later doubt God? Even the disciples who had been traveling with Jesus for up to three years still had doubts even when seeing the resurrected Jesus.>When they saw him, they worshiped him, but they doubted.Is the passage in Matthew immediately before the Great Commission is given. Can we say we will surely be free of doubts if the disciples still were not? What is more convincing than signs that appeal to the eyes are signs that appeal to the heart. What would be more profitable to you? To see the incarnated Jesus multiply bread, or the faith that you have in him empower you to abstain from sin and live righteously?
>>18402301If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.Deuteronomy 18:22
How often are you reading Scripture? We must remember that it is not enough to rid ourselves from evil, but fill ourselves with good too>When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it wanders through waterless regions looking for a resting place, but it finds none. Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ When it returns, it finds it empty, swept, and put in order. Then it goes and brings along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and live there, and the last state of that person is worse than the first. So will it be also with this evil generation.”We shouldn't take what we have for granted. We are able to do what the large majority of people in history haven't: Easily read the inspired Word of God for oursevles. Scripture can have a tremendous effect on our faith.>For thus says the high and lofty one who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: I dwell in the high and holy place and also with those who are contrite and humble in spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble and to revive the heart of the contrite.>I have said this to you so that in me you may have peace. In the world you face persecution, but take courage: I have conquered the world!>No, in all these things we are more than victorious through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.Passages like these are the coolest thing in the world. I think it ultimately comes down to reaching for theosis. Walking in this path is what brings us happiness. The less I care about material possessions and the less I hate others results in a much happier life for myself. Perhaps Matthew 5-7 (Sermon on the Mount) and Luke 6 (Sermon on the Plain) are the best passages for instruction in this.
>>18400258No
>>18402384Catholics barely read the scripture, we have it read to us at mass instead. I personally read Matthew, The Epistle to the Romans and most of Genesis, but can't say it gave me any insights.
>>18402077Makes sense. I once read from C. G. Jung that his Christian believe became stronger thr further he distanced himself from church, from public Christian rituals. I asked ChatGPT and it verified there are some studies that prove you can enter dream-like states by following drumming rituals and whatnot. It also said this book isn't a conventional approach to shamanism, but a guide to "non-dual shamanic ritual practice". So I just read the book and follow the instructions? How did it work for you? Any other advice?
>>18400258Whole lotta not aligning with Evangelical Zionism here. You know how people in America treat each other when you go outside the house? If you want that stuff about healing the sick after trying every doctor then go to where people are actually sick after trying every doctor and where infrastructure doesn't cut it so these super third world places where the limit is stretched out to the fullest.
>>18402721I think you're in the wrong thread.
>>18400258What are you trying to accomplish? If you want actual enlightment, then I don't think you're going to find it in a jewish subversive messianic cult designed to turn non-jews into perfect noahides. If you think that the religion of the past was just some kind of fashion statement or subscription like with semitic religions then I would simply tell you to study more. Read Greek, Roman and Northern European works. Then read other people's writings on these works to get a better understanding of how mythology is constructed and functions. Nothing wrong with videos either if it gets the information across. Understand vitalism and Aryan philosophy. Our past is a massive, sprawling world full of knowledge and lost arts. If you're truly interested in it, you will learn more about it.
I think no one in this thread really knows what he's talking about.
>>18403460No shit, we're a bunch of mentally ill monkeys hurtling on a rock through spaceBut something better is out there for us. It has to be.
>>18400258It's really not possible to believe in any abrahamic religion if you have IQ above 70 and can read. When Nietzsche remarked that God is dead and Weber said that the world has become disenchanted around the turn of the last century they weren't talking out of their ass. The industrial revolution really has had profound effects on how people can even think. That's why quasi-religions like nationalism and socialism have fulfilled the void.I don't know, try gnosticism or buddhism if you insist but don't expect results.
>>18402601What I do:-Meditation-chants-qigong-rituals-visual magick -other (weird).Generally visual magick is a field where you experience things, you talk to spirits, etc, visions are received, and what seemed like an imaginary concourse, becomes interactive instead of static, do you understand? Because, you seek Spirits and stuff in these visionary quests, and interactive stuff happens, not according to your script, which is what makes it feel authentic. I'm sure it's better understood now.
>>18400258This is a hard question and I'm proud of you, anon, for following your heart this far. The truth doesn't need proving, you will know it when you see it. Your natural draw to Christ is evidence of your spiritual nature.An important thing to understand is that, in following Christ, our faith will always be tested. I think anyone who claims to have unwavering faith at all times is lying. I grew up in a protestant, traditional, evangelical church, but I became a strong atheist as soon as I could think. I had to see death, to feel deep pain, to have extremely human experiences to come back to christ. My faith comes from a series of tests in which my life has shown Christ's teachings to be valuable to my life and health. Strong psychedelics, and then sobriety, and then meditation were all experiences which deeply impressed on me the nature of our life. Perhaps the strong emotions I feel are as a result of my childhood, I don't know. What I know is that the whole truth about this life and the next one are not available to us. Jesus tells us he is the way, John says he is the word. Only through trust in him, can you come to see more. How long need you knock at a door with no answer? Perhaps you need to open the door yourself, perhaps he is not ready to welcome you inside, perhaps you're at the wrong door or knocking the wrong way. Do you follow? After Christ's departure, God gives us all the ability to see through the holy ghost. You said you're a Catholic, and it seems you are more interested in the cultural and philosophical aspects of Christianity. That's great, but the truth comes in the personal journey, through prayer, meditation, and Bible study.I've read the Bible over multiple times and every passage feels different every time because my eyes are opened to see differently. Or maybe because my perspective has changed.When in doubt, do as Jesus would- help your brother and be selfless. Find love and love deeply my brother
>>18402597How can you give up before youve even started? You claim you are knocking with no answer and you haven't even begun to knock
>>18403710What race are you?Are your chanting practices loud? Do you live secluded or in an apartment complex?Can you share details about some of your experiences?
>>18403747>>18403756The evangelicals in this thread seem more focused on trying to convince themselves, then they are to convince me and others, who are in doubt. I'm looking for hard answers on the spiritual presence of Christ, not this empty "you need to find your own way" mumbo jumbo. If you truly had convincing visions of Christ, tell me about them and how to replicate them. Surely, since Christ pulls every believer towards him like a center of gravity, someone who had one vision of him must want to seek it again and again, right?I also asked AI if most of the historical Christians who had visions in the past were avid bible readers and it said no. Bible-studying is, when viewing the whole history of Christianity, a relatively new approach, that's mostly carried by protestant sects since the 16th century. The average Catholic before that would only have the bible read to him in a latin language he barely understood at mass. Still, he had no doubts about the living presence of Christ. There was no atheism epidemic back then, like it exists now.
>>18404161I'll tell you about my visions of Christ. Instead of hating the poor, I donate money to feed, clothe, and house them. Instead of hating my enemies, I love them. Instead of dressing stylishly to win the praise of others, I dress modestly so I can be minimized. I express joy and thanksgiving towards the Creator for all he has given me. I have felt the love and generosity from fellow Christians who have made sacrifices for my sake. This has all come about from myself and others submitting to the Anointed as Lord, which includes casting off the flesh and living in the spirit. This is how I have seen Christ. Not with my deceptive eyes of flesh, but with my spiritual heart.>Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.While the large majority of people in history haven't been able to read, the early Christian writers who could were devoted students of Scripture and quoted it often. If you, being literate as well, were to talk to them, I think they would also be very disapproving of you not seizing the opportunity to read Scripture as well. And I don't mean to say I know who's Christian and not, but I estimate that most within all Christian denominations throughout history have only been nominal Christians. I think most Christians have merely been adhering to their prevailing culture.
>>18404146Race: Daemon (no joke).Silent chanting. Secluded countryside lyfe. Experience: Some villagers were having flu-like symptoms on beginning of spring, so I used giant wasps to inject medicine, they recovered that day or the next.
>>18404332About the daemon thing, it's a Spirit thang. Essentially: left Hand Path shamanism -- you become a being of pure darkness, thus, daemon. >No, but muh anthropologyI have no idea of anthropology
>>18404332>>18404370>larptrollMy fault for seeking serious advice on 4chan.
>>18402301So even in the Gospel of Mathew and the Book of Exodus, after seeing literal miracles before them, some of the Jews deserted God. Gospel of John 12:37 tells us that clearly. After reading the Gospel of Mathew again, I can't help but get infuriated at them.
>>18404332Time to hop off Warhammer Fantasy and Elden Ring, buddy.
>>18404420>OP though somebody would care for his spiritual crisis trolololThis is the cope and seethe board, idiot. The talk about anything you're mad about board. There is no serious discussion about muh religion here.
>>18404420Yepp. Why do you argue endlessly over the internet when books with stuff you can verify by yourself, given training time, are a dime a dozen? You invited the abuse.
>>18400258>In short: How long need I knock at a door, when no one's opening? When is it justified to give up and what is the alternative?Christianity was developed by monastics and so it continuously tricks people into believing they need to suffer and die alone on their cross while having faith.In reality, religion only works in community. God can only really be expressed through the richness of interactions between people.If you're not seeing the living God it's because you're not seeing healthy communities either.
>>18402601>I once read from C. G. Jung that his Christian believe became stronger thr further he distanced himself from church, from public Christian rituals.He was way too sensitive of a thinker. The fact that they're telling you to eat flesh and drink blood and everything else meant that he would be terrorized by Christian imagery. Instead he had to find his own understanding>some studies that prove you can enter dream-like states by following drumming rituals and whatnotYou have to follow what works for you, but just making yourself schizo doesn't solve anything on its own. Make sure you're always tying things down to the practical matters of taking meaningful action and not just keeping your head in the clouds.
>>18404494>after seeing literal miracles before them, some of the Jews deserted GodHence why the Bible is ahistorical since literally nobody can be that stupid.
