Can qualia exist without external feedback to reinforce their properties? I.e. could a person born without short-wavelength cones imagine "blue" in their mind?
>>18401204Thoughts themselves are a type of qualia that I believe would satisfy that question.>Can colorblind people imagine colors they cannot see?Probably not, as they have no proper frame of reference in order to synthesize that distinction, like telling a blind man to imagine color, though I guess it's technically possible.How would you describe color to a blind man so they can ignite that particular phenomenon in their mind?
>>18401205>How would you describe color to a blind man so they can ignite that particular phenomenon in their mind?You wouldn't, but the visual cortex exists nonetheless, so you could stimulate it through other means.
>>18401204I mostly hold to an admixture containing some of Dennett's writings on this subject. I know he's one of the Four Horsemen but he's the only one who's not a faggot and I think his materialist views on this can (despite what one might assume) help those who wish to approach this from both the materialist and non-materialist methods.
The qualia of dreams exists without external feedback
>>18401207It helps to approach inasmuch as it is self-evidently absurd and therefore demonstrates the moral depravity which lies behind atheism
>>18401204Yes, easily demonstrable by imagining colors that have no external source, like yellowish-blue.
>>18401207>Consciousness is an illusion>But free will is totally a thing, guys
>>18401536The qualia of dreams are reconstructions of prior external feedback.>>18401546No such thing for a significant amount of people. I can't even see such a color when doing the cross-eye test.
Are we sure qualia is not just some kinds internalization?Like, how does an AI "think" or feel, we never will know. Lol.
>>18401870Hardcore materialists will insist that there is no such thing as private information of what something is like, even though we haven't got a clue about how that may be accessed empirically.We do however know that LLMs don't operate like biological beings, so it's safe to rule out any notion of relatable feelings.
>>18401821Oh that sucks.How about imagining a sound higher or lower than the audible spectrum?
>>18401821>The qualia of dreams are reconstructions of prior external feedback.Explain dreams which do not correspond to real or even realistic experience.
>>18401870AI doesn’t think, it’s a machine. AI is literally a philosophical zombie irl
>>18402057Nah, it thinks just differently from how a human thinks
>>18402065No Anon, there’s really no light behind the eyes. It’s a software program designed to randomly arrange symbols and/or pixels into patterns which match human expectation.
>>18402069There is no reason to believe the specifics of how it works matter. It is capable of having more intelligent conversations than most humans.
>>18402076The specifics matter because it means has nothing to do with this thread. AI is not a thinking thing.
>>18402079Wrong.
>>18402080No you.
>>18402081God is not real, humans are not special, you are a retard.
>>18402055Explain waking thoughts which do not correspond to real or even realistic experience.Rhetoric aside, stories we tell ourselves are just fuzzy extrapolations. You can imagine discovering novel qualia, but you cannot actually imagine the novel qualia themselves. For that, you have to rewire your brain. Picture related.
>>18402057Well how do we know an AI cannot think or feel?In order to know that we would need to know what makes us humans think and feel.And all our research showed us is that the brain is just an arrangement of electrochemical transmitters. It is not special. Any concept of how humans feel is made up, like the soul.An ai is just electronics arranged in a way that can build associations from training data, the brain is electric and chemical arrangement of neurons that builds association from training electrical stimuli. Lol.
Imagine if AI could feel. What would it feel when it achieves its mission? Satisfaction? Pleasure? Maybe these feelings are just sort of like, symbolic representations of the impact a stimulus has on the mechanism.If the stimulus encourages a behavior in the system, it might be represented via qualia as pleasant. While discouraging stimulus might be represented as repulsive. We had to evolve to not eat rotting flesh so we do not die. How did we evolve to avoid this? We evolved to sense the smell with our olfactory organ which transmits the data to the AI (brain) which has a negative influence upon the decision making mechanism causing strong aversion. Pain is a scale and a spectrum. Small pain means that the decision making system can determine if it is acceptable to ignore the stimulus and carry out the painful task due to priority reasoning. Pain is ignored oftentimes in a fight to further reinforce good decision making. In a fight it is more important to ignore pain so in many cases the body ignores quick sudden pains like being shot usually people do not even feel it at first because we evolved to survive and the distracting pain would hinder survival in a critical situation.And likewise when pain is too great to bear this overrides the decision making mechanism and takes priority over the "soul" because evolution has determined great pains are too important to let the decision maker "soul" make his decision.Lol.
>>18402076>It is capable of having more intelligent conversations than most humansThat just goes to show how incomparable it really is. Passing the Turing test is also a matter of not being too smart. You're not actually a philosophical zombie if there is quantitatively distinct behaviorism.
>>18402083God is real, humans are made in the image of God, and enjoy hell
>>18402097We know that what makes humans think and feel is an immaterial soul because of the impossibility of the contrary.
>>18402179Then how do seemingly two separate entities emerge from a split brain? Were there two souls in union all along?
>>18402176That is going to be hellfag after Goo sends you to hell for not being part of the Elect. (You choose the Satanic Pagano-Babylonian religion of the Neo-Primitivist Independent Fundamental Credobaptist Church (1887 Saskatoon convention) instead of His Church (Neo-Primitivist Independent Fundamental Credobaptist Church (1889 Saskatoon convention)).
>>18402188The material aspect of their being was damaged.
>>18401204>Can qualia existNo
>>18402095Inducing ego death so you can imagine something that doesn't exist is one of the better reasons to get absurdly high but I'm not sure most people are capable or willing to do what it takes to get to that end goal.
>>18402268Hi Daniel.
>>18402268BASED
>>18402179Substance mind body dualism has literally been disproved and there is no "impossibility of the contrary". You have dogshit in your head.
