Why did China succeed in economic reform post-1970s while the USSR/Russia failed?
>>18402017Communism only works if you have an ethnostate, and even then it ends up becoming national socialism anyway. USSR was a churkamutt shithole only marginally better than its predecessor
>>18402017Why is Russia's GDP so low?
>>18402017Dengism
>>18402020Waiting for your argument since USSR was white
The real answer is that China has over 1 billion people and Russia doesn't. It's really not that difficult to understand. Both Russia and China have a similar Per Capita GDP, they both have poor economic output relative to their population, it's just that one has more people than the other to make up for it. Russians probably don't breed like rabbits like the Chinese do because China is in a far more fertile climate than Russia.
>>18402163It’s a hard pill to swallow that the world has almost always revolved around China and they’ve lead in innovation for a while and they expand influence differently than amerikwa. Silk Road 2.0 with shipping lanes airports and universities vs marvelslop, zionism + gay race communist cultural exports, replacement immigration quotas and puppet leaders installed in soft coups where being a geopolitical ally of America is almost more dangerous than being a foe.
>>18402017China's growth is due to outsourced western industries, and as already said their gdp per capita is identical to Russia's
>>18402017China started reform with no immediate pressure and slowly and controllably shifted to capitalism. Chinese reforms started in 1979 with disbanding kholhozes and ending economic Stalinism.USSR clinged to kholhozes and economic Stalinism until sorry end. Real economic reforms started in January 1992 after Gorbachev was removed from power and country collapsed into sovereign republics due to economic failure of the Kremlin. Reforms were pressed I ro existence by circumstances of country collapse and were put into place in a very time limited period in an environment of chaos.Essentially USSR had no economic reform until Soveit leadership was removed from power.
>>18402161In 1990 40% of USSR birth were non Russian.
>>18402163 #>The real answer is that China has over 1 billion people and Russia doesn't. It's really not that difficult to understandUSSR population in 1985 was 277 mil. 5 times lower then China in 2025.In 2025 china produced 23 more times cars then USSR in 1985.In 2025 china produced 100 (!) more times ships displacement than USSR in 1985.It's just USSR was a piece of commie shit, stinking and economcally weak like Maoist China.
Brown people love fantasizing about China numbah wan but they would never ever ever illegally immigrate there. Curious!
>>18402017China turned capitalist.
>>18402017It's a little known trick that if you don't run extensive price controls and a large share of your economy is made up of subsidized unprofitable companies you don't have to do chocktherapy and that if your general population got african standards of living it's a lot more viable to get hard currency by having your people sewing sneakers and t-shirts
>>18402017China barely survived its own reforms. Deng had to repress so many movements that he almost go expelled of power, and this is despite chinese having a greater tolerance of their leaders than russkies.The USSR's reforms initially hurt, but they were made acute by the dismantling of the union by Yeltsin, which had become empowered by the fail coup. Otherwise, the USSR would've probably overcome the hardships and eventually tail southern eu in terms of development. Yeltsin, by dismantling the union, let oligarchs take all the capital for themselves.>>18402628This is just blatantly wrong. One of the earliest reforms initiated by Gorbachev was to liberate the peasantry from the Kolkhoze system.Economic stalinism had been abandonned by the mid 60s with the introduction of the kosygin reforms.
>>18402017Chinese Autism combined with essential """reforms""" made it work. Similarly, East Germany had the highest living standards in the Communist world thanks to German Autism.
>>18402163Then why is India's GDP so low?
>>184020171: Russia didn't try to completely reinvent their economy to benefit from capitalist trade the way China did2: China's entire economy hinges on the slogan "We treat our workers like shit so YOU don't have to!"3: China's economy is in the middle of a slow collapse that's likely to play out over the next few decades. Their centralised control of the significant parts of their economy, and willingness to pretend that complete bullshit represents accurate record keeping, is helping to slow the process down - but you can't fight fate, or shitty economic management.
>>18402017China was more welcoming to western countries offshoring their manufacturing to them, and China didnt regularly demolish their population by throwing young men into meat grinder wars for retarded reasons, which in turn usually made them enemies with the western nations that China was getting business from. In shorter easier to digest terms, China was just less hostile and invested in international trade.
>>18402017the USSR crashed their economy with no survivors in like 8 months by opening everything immediately and nuking the Sberbank. Chubais had an interview where he said he knew that his reforms would bankrupt the nation but it was necessary to own le commiesChina slowly opened their economy to foreigners first with the introduction of SEZs, while maintaining protectionist controls for the rest of the country to maintain employment
>>18402801>This is just blatantly wrong. One of the earliest reforms initiated by Gorbachev was to liberate the peasantry from the Kolkhoze system.Fake.>Economic stalinism had been abandonned by the mid 60s with the introduction of the kosygin reforms.Another Stalinists fake. Khrushchev only strengthened commie yoke on Soviet peasants necks, reducing personal plots from 0.5-0.25 ha to 0.06 ha. Aslo increaseing taxes on personal farm animals. That lead to complete decimation of these animals. After Khrushchev removal tax was cancelled ( land plot reduction remained) but deed was done, Soviet peasants were left without personal source of animal products production, Soviet life expectancy starts tanking. Food supply goes into dive ending with USSR dissolution. 1963 first year when USSR starts importing grain.
>>18402841false equivalence since we were comparing communist economies you brown sinophile retard
>>18402629You can be white without being a Ruskie
>>18403044>FakeIn 1985 agriculture had already been reformed to allow land-leasing to groups of 10 to 30 people. In fact this already been initiated in 1984 under Chernenko.In 1987 Gorby essentially allowed people to own their land by allowing long term leasing contracts for individuals and by removing the limit to how much one family could have in terms of land. In contrast, most of Gorby's enterprise reforms occured in 1886-onwards, implying that agriculture was indeed one of the very first reform. >Khrushchev Economic stalinism refers to central planners micromanaging the economy, not personal plots of land retard. By the start of Brezhnev's co-reign, enterprise had gotten partial autonomy through the Kosygin reforms, which introduced profits, choice of supplier, partial reinvestment, bonus incentives etc.I remember you, you're that retarded schizo that believes gorbachev = stalin. You're retarded and don't know shit, so stop wasting posts on blatantly fake information which takes a minute to be verified. Besides, you didn't reply to my questions from last time : how/when did you get this schizo belief that stalinism equals farm collectivization, and that as such Gorbachev = Stalin because he didn't immediatly decollectivize farms (which he did but you obviously don't know much about the USSR). I'm genuinely curious as to how you started believing this.
>>18403228>Economic stalinism refers to central planners micromanaging the economy, not personal plots of land retard.>Choking peasants, removing their self sufficiency and making them fully dependant on government hand outs isn't Stalinism >stop discussing hecking Stalinism!>>18403228>In 1987 Gorby essentially allowed people to own their land by allowing long term leasing contracts for individualsLeasing. Not owning. Turning kholhozes into landlords leasing land for money to peasants (wtf right? Reintroducing rent and landlords? Communism? Hello? Where do poorest class of the USSR will get money for land leasing btw?Compare to Chinese reform in 1979. Land was leased to family farms by state. But not for money but for obligation to supply agricultural products quota at state price. (Same obligations Soviet and Chinese kholhozes had). But Gorbachev (awfully late 1987 country is free fall) wants to turn kholhozes into monetary landlord's? This is big "I hate you peasants".
>>18403228>Gorbachev = Stalin because he didn't immediatly decollectivize farms (Collectivisation of peasants is a core concept of Stalinism. Stalin obtained full power about 1928.>In October 1929, approximately 7.5% of the peasant households were in collective farms, and by February 1930, 52.7% had been collectivised.[3>The Holodomor, 1932 to 1933 As for Gorbachev's decolectivisation of peasants, February 1991 in RSFSR was registered 4433 individual farms (with 38 millions rural population. JUST).
>>18402645True. Where are millions of Burmese, Indonesians and Filipinos risking their life to get into their communist paradise?Where ???
Real estate bubble, land price hike, low wage, and the elimination of social safety nets.
>>18403877>>18403892>Choking peasants, removing their self sufficiency and making them fully dependant on government hand outs isn't StalinismLmfao it is but it's not what defines stalinism you retard. Otherwise, stalinists wouldn't be calling Kruschev a traitor and a revisionnist given that he followed and expanded collectivization. Why do you think Enver Hoxha called the USSR revisionnist ? Did you think that Mao called Khruschev a traitor because he continued stalinism according to you ? Or, perhaps, Stalinism can be defined by other core tenets like socialism in one country, full centralization within the party, and full plannification of the economy. Perhaps once you've understood this you'll stop saying retarded things. >Leasing. Not owningWhich produces the same results dumbass. Do you think that a farmer which rents his land to Blackrock in the US is not acting like any other farmer ?>Compare to Chinese reform in 1979. Land was leased to family farms by state. But not for money but for obligation to supply agricultural products quota at state price. It's very ironic that you point this out because the reforms were the exact same retard. Gorbachev leased land at a very cheap and discounted price, and allowed the peasants to keep any surplus beyond the minimum state quota. The land leasing was cheap and was meant to encourage productivity by giving incentives to farmers to keep any surplus that they had to sell on the market. Literally all of the thing you typed are wrong. >This is big "I hate you peasants".Topkek at some point you need to face reality and accept that maybe not every event in the USSR was determined by farm collectivization.
>>18402645>>18404006On some instinctive levels browns recognise that their existence in China would only be a net negative towards China's geopolitical and economic aspirations
>>18404026 #>Otherwise, stalinists wouldn't be calling Kruschev a traitor and a revisionnist given that he followed and expanded collectivizationThat's retarded commie brains for you, who just follow simplest slogans.>Khrushchev dared to speak bad about beloved Stalin >Khrushchev bad>Khrushchev is anti Stalinists Khrushchev indeed turned around many Stalin's policies like freedom of speech or supply of workers with housing (Stalin believed bunk bed in barracks is enough, Khrushchev built famous Khrushchevkas).But regarding peasants Khrushchev yanked commie nose on their necks even harder. And that was universal for Soveit commies, they had no their own "Deng Xiaoping".>Gorbachev leased land at a very cheap and discounted price,Like I said there was significant differencesGorbachevs vision (anyway to late to fruit like I said only 4433 famers before USSR collapse)1. Keep Kholhozes2. Allow kholhozes to rent their land to peasants for money, turning khaliphates into landlords.What is their logic of keeping kholhoz landlord here? Fucking over individual farming and proping failing kholhozes with rental parasitism has no logic besides hating peasants.Now Deng Xiaoping model:1. Disband kholhozes.2. Regional authorities rent land to family farms3. Pay is agricultural products.(BTW it's unironically medieval feudalism natural quitrent model, so hilarious that Soveit communism lost to reintroducing of feudalism in China).
>>18402645No, brown people dream about moving to the US
>>18404205>That's retarded commie brains for you, who just follow simplest slogansTopkek by your own logic Kruschev should be the pinnacle of stalinism. So why isn't that ? I don't get why you refuse to always answer : why do you believe stalinism is just land collectivization. I'm genuinely curious because it's an obviously retarded claim yet you cling to it very autistically.>What is their logic of keeping kholhoz landlord hereTopkek the kolkhoz isn't a person you retard. It's a legal entity by which farmers were collectivized. It's literally no different than what Deng did in 1979 you moron.The reform is the exact same thing, the state kept formal control of the land but let the peasants do whatever they wanted of it. The only difference in Deng's reforms and Gorbachev's is that the peasants leased the land to the regional authorities instead of renting it to the state-owned kolkhoze. It was the same thing except for the name of who they were renting it to. >What is their logic of keeping kholhoz landlord here?Mhm I wonder how the goal of an ideology which posits that the economy should belong to the people collectively for use could translate in the state keeping formal control over the land. Truly a mystery.>4433 farmersI fact-checked this and there's no evidence of it. It's true that the reforms were introduced late and as such had less adoption than Deng's, but it would be very odd that it is this low. Did you pull this out of your like the claim gorbachev = stalin anon ?
>>18402645Because brownoids respect authoritarian regimes on an instinctual level and illegally migrating to an authoritarian regime is fucking suicide.Meanwhile no such fears exist for liberal Western democracies so thirdies feel bolder to risk it.
>>18404761Yeah. Western regimes are too nice to thirdies. They should shot at them and beat them instead how they used to do under communism
>>18404547>I fact-checked this and there's no evidence of itSkill issue.Izvestia newspaper February 25 1991
>>18402017yes, the chinese famously produced zero goods whatsoever 50 years agovery cool graph
>>18404970>Izvestia newspaper February 25 1991Topkek the article is talking about private farms dumbass.>no argument for anything elseconcession accepted
>>18402017US market was opened
>>18402017>while the USSR/Russia failed?Western countries believed their own propaganda about economic growth in China would turn its population against the Communist Party.
>>18402017During the Cold War, America's primary adversary was the USSR and they saw the Sino-Soviet split as an oppurtunity to use China against Soviet influence. So the US was eager to warm up to China so that they could break Soviet influence in East Asia. China by the 70s was effectively a failed state that had suffered two major famines and they hated the USSR that they opened up to the US. By the mid 80s, they were already the top producer of textiles and radios in the world, and by the time the USSR collapsed, America believed that China would become democratic once it got wealthy enough. Liberalism was the predominate ideology in the West in the 90s and they genuinely believed it was the end of history and that China would eventually become like them.
>>18405521>Topkek the article is talking about private farms dumbass.Yes about private farms. Previously all agriculture in Soviet union was collectivized.
>>18405704So then you realize that the leased lands who were nominally under the kolkhoze control were then not registered ?
>>18405715You are wrong.
>>18402645Actually China has a massive migrant population that is constantly growing. You can also become naturalized in 2-3 and grab a work visa the moment you walk into the country. They have a info blockade because they don't use google so you're not going to hear about it as easily or even see pictures. Also because most people don't give a shit. They are taught from the get go that globalization = good so they love talking to and seeing non-chinese.
>>18406123The entirety of China's migrant population is sub-saharan Africans who work in shitty conditions in work towns far away from the coastal cities.
>>18402645>Brown people love fantasizing about China numbah wannever heard a brown say this or think this. quite the opposite, actuallyt. a brown
