I read on the internet a common origin for some names of gods in different Indo-European languages: - Lithuanian Vělinas - Gaulish Vellaunos - And Vedic Váruṇaḥ These names may derive from *Ṷelonos, *Ṷelunos, or another derivative with "n" from the root *ṷel- "to see". Is this legitimate?
>>18405612First, if the names are similar, determine if they have regular sound correspondences.Second, determine if the words have similar meanings and if the gods have similar themes.>Lithuanian Vělinas >Vedic VáruṇaḥThese vowels are wrong. Keep tables like these handy:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ThaesOfereode/Indo-European_sound_correspondencesAlso ⟨ě⟩ is not standard Lithuanian orthography. Did you actually copy a Lithuanian word? Perhaps ⟨ė⟩ was intended.
>>18405782I copied this from an article I read. But then there's no similarity between these terms? None at all? Varuna is a Vedic innovation apparently, but I read that there are several words with *ṷel-
>>18405872You're not giving us much to go by. The correct spelling of the Lithuanian word needs clarification. I suppose the root *u̯el- could potentially be involved in one or more terms, but you haven't provided any meanings of these words or associated themes.If the Lithuanian word is correctly spelled ⟨Vėl-⟩ then we have an unexpected long vowel.
>>18405782Stop humiliating others, you egocentric jerk.
>>18405899
>>18405907This guy thinks he's the best, but I've already humiliated him three times in a discussion about the etymology of "Poseidon," which, ironically, he insisted was related to "varuna," and he plays this huge mental game about water droplets and the ocean being related.
>>18405612I don't think so PIEs would hardly worship a water deity.
>>18405921What would stop them?
>>18405922Perhaps it's because they live on the steppe? There's no ocean there Dhur
>>18405931But that's false the oldest cultures of the Iberian Peninsula also lived near the Black Sea, and in all branches there is a word for ocean.
>>18405917>>18405907meds
>>18405911>*U̯elonos, *U̯elunosA variation *-onus ~ *-unos doesn't make much sense, and I'm not sure why the author gives this. It is possible that the words involved use the root *u̯el- but, again, the Lithuanian word still needs clarification.>In the study of the PIE gods, however, if one restricts one's search to cognate correspondences in the names (as if one were searching for cognate words) and insists on considering only gods with linguistically cognate names as having a common origin, one would draw the false conclusion that PIE religion was sparsely populated with gods in comparison to the later cults. Instead of concentrating totally upon the phonology of a particular name (which is but a single aspect of the entire complex of motifs surrounding a particular deity), one must look at the whole attribute structure surrounding each of the otherwise cognate gods (a major aspect of which is the total semantic field generated by all of the bynames of the particular deity). One should recall that in the comparative field of folklore, changing the names of the characters in a folktale does not change the tale's location in the Motif Index. Thus a deity, like a folktale, must be defined by the total motif repertoire. The complex of bynames is but one subfield among the total field of all of the attributes of a particular deity.I agree with this paragraph.
>>18406061OP eurocentric btw
>>18406067meds
>>18405612Probably. The Baltic languages (especially Old Lithuanian) are noted for preserving some very Vedic-sounding words, including deity names.Here's some other examples.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dievashttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C5%A1vieniaiThere's also a Parjanya/Perkunos, and a personification of literal wind named Vejas/Vejo(patis) similar to the Hindu Vayu (literally air) and other more dubious examples.
>>18406077According to this guy>>18406061Doesn't fit well>and other more dubious examples.For example? Parjanya/Perkunos From what I could understand, there is a parallel of perkunos in practically all branches, even possibly in the Thracian, and an epithet for Zeus.
>>18405782Saar
>>18406061I did a quick search and the author did indeed mean ⟨Vėl-⟩.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_mythology#Gods_and_mythological_figures>Velnias (Velas, Velinas) – chthonic god of the underworld, related to the cult of dead.[30] The root of the word is the same as of Lithuanian: vėlė ('soul of the deceased'). After the introduction of Christianity, it was equated with evil, and Velnias became the Lithuanian name for devil. In some tales, Velnias (the devil) was the first owner of fire. God sent a swallow, which managed to steal the fire.[31]Note that ⟨vėlė⟩ "soul of the deceased" has a long vowel and comes from the root *u̯elh3- “death”. I assume the long ⟨ė⟩ is the result of vṛddhi, which was a productive process in Balto-Slavic.
>>18405782Firster than your first of all, all languages and philosophies of indoeurasia share one single common origin point. The real redpill is that there are no "germanic and romance languages". If you go back far enough, you'll see that they both share the same root.
>>18405612>Gaulish Vellaunoshttps://lexlep.univie.ac.at/wiki/u%CC%AFallau%CC%AFn->The element uellaun-/uallaun- is widely attested in Celtic onomastics: Gaulish personal names (uellaunus, uercassiuellaunus, ualauna), theonyms (icouellauna), ethnonyms (κατουελλαυοί, segouellauni) and toponyms (uellaunodunum); OBrit. personal names (cassiuellaunus, dubnouellaunus, ualauneicus) and ethnonyms (catuuellauni), OW -gwallawn (cadwallaun, MW casswallawn); Ogam valamni (CIIC 125), OIr. folloman; lexically in OIr. *follomon- 'ruler, chief' ( follaimnigid 'rules', etc.). See Holder 1896-1907: III 94, KGP: 288 f., GPN: 272–277 (with older literature), Lambert 1990: 206–208, DLG: 311, Delamarre 2007: 188, 235.
>>18406238>Wikipedia
>>18406597Yes, varuna its a indian godNot "pie"
>>18406677We know
>>18405612>Vedic VáruṇaḥI took a minute to find a reasonable analysis of this word for you.In short, it appears to reflect PIE *u̯elHu-mn+ó- and is cognate with• Lat ⟨volūmen⟩• Gk ⟨eílūma⟩• Arm ⟨gelowmn⟩https://logeion.uchicago.edu/%CE%B5%E1%BC%B4%CE%BB%CF%85%CE%BC%CE%B1
>>18406238Stop using Wikipedia it cites Gimbutas, which is totally biased and outdated.
Andajus=indra??
>>18406843Hi! Thanks for the help. And please don't think I'm one of those guys who are disrupting my thread If you could post the links for us, that would be great.
>>18406844OP won't even bother to look up the words to see how they're actually spelled.
>>18406854https://www.stockholmuniversitypress.se/books/121/files/dac7c245-c7c2-4b4f-9dc8-fbbcb2509aa3.pdf
>>18406843So we have a problem here. Either Varuna in Vedic wasn't even the name of this god but an epithet, which is unlikely given that we have an inscription in Mittani, or perhaps the old theory that Varuna wasn't a sea god is correct.
>>18406862Thank you lil anon you are kind.
>>18406843>>18406597>>18405612We need to overcome this bias we have when studying Indo-European mythology based on Vedic mythology, as if we had full comparative authority on the subject. Not everything should be compared to Vedic mythology, okay? Did you know that Indo-European only arrived in India at the end of the Bronze Age? Europe was Indo-European from the end of the Neolithic period.
>>18406872>Not everything should be compared to Vedic mythology, okay?No, everything should be compared. That's the entire point. If we do not compare, then we cannot see what words are similar to other words and what themes are similar to other themes.Without the comparative method, you have no way to verify or debunk.
>>18406852I didn't find any information online, only a blog post by larpagan that apparently "Andajus" was linked to serpents and was more like an a primordial being. I think I agree with him>>18406872Perhaps Indra and Varuna are innovations.
>>18406875You're not understanding. I said that we should stop using Vedic mythology as a kind of core or bias when comparing myths, when in the thread we were asking: >Where is myth X from the Vedas in Europe? >Where is Vedic God Y in Europe? And so on, sometimes it seems that Vedic mythology is the comparative source of everything, and it isn't. Believe it or not, we have more preservation of Hellenic myths than Vedic ones, which are restricted to poetry.
>>18406875>comparative methodDead Science
>>18406877Ok
>>18406862You're the first to discredit other people's sources, and then you post a poorly cited source like this?
>>18406862Loved the article
Considering Varuna's aspect as a god associated with death, in an abstract way (bcause Yama being the "god of death" himself, like Hades), allows us to compare him with other Indo-European gods who share a common root, as already mentioneh here
>>18406958Varuna wasn't a god of sea
>>18406958It's very helpful to have an accurate etymology for a god like Varuna even if no other IE gods have that precise name. It allows us to compare themes associated with Varuna's name.
>>18406958>>18407127Varuna is indic deity not IE
>>18406881But maruts is cognate with roman mars
>>18407130>wishful thinking
>>18406958Nice reference to kurgans at the end
>>18405782The gods do not always share themes with their cognates, it's very frequent that pantheons see roles shift to different gods. See: Zeus/Jupiter vs Tyr, close etymological relatives, but role shifts entirely to thunor or w/e in germanic pantheon.
>>18407198Yes. Its a PIE heritage
>>18407195You guys couldn't prove me wrong
>>18407299You didn't make an argument.You expressed what you wish to be true.
>>18407325Show me the nordic varuna
>>18407338That's not an argument either. You are pitifully dumb.
>>18407345I accept your defeat
>>18407351I haven't made any claims. You made a claim without evidence. You defeated yourself and I just observed.
So: varuna its a Indic god
>>18407359>varuna its a Indic godNo evidence for this has been presented. You are hallucinating.
Although it's not possible to find a varuna in other Indo-European branches, unfortunately for the cods, the vast majority of their myths are Indo-European. West has a good entry on this in his Indo-European poetry and mythology.Apam napat is PIE. But of course, someone could make a thread specifically for these myths, but I forgot that 2/3 are saars today. The root is the same root word for nephew and nepotism in English, obviously through the Greek for nepotism. I think the Irish Nechtan also has something to do with it? Cry, saars. You guys LOST again
>>18407367You haven't shown any cognates with varuna yet. >apam napat The burden is on you. Where is the evidence? I'm curious.
